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In the Name of God بسم الله

Are we losing Islam to books of fiqhi rulings?

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I think one of the reason why it seems like jurisprudence does not focus as much on things like humanity, compassion, morality and such as much as the other things is that those were must-haves and the hadiths on such matters sometimes simply erase all doubt in one sentence. For instance:

"Those [traders etc] who add [and sell] impure [produce / commit fraud] are not from us (not Muslim / are kafir)".

Now this hadith is well known and I read it during childhood. Its pretty much, as they say in Urdu, a river contained in a cup. No room for debate left. IT becomes clear as day light how none can steal or deceive the society and stay Muslim. They will burn forever if they lived like that.

Similarly the relatives of womb and their rights, there are plenty of hadiths about that. How Allah gives longevity to those who take compassion on siblings. About parents its abundantly clear. "Heaven is under the feet of your mother [in serving her / achieving her satisfaction]". "Allah does not turn down the prayer of a father for his children". Do you see how weighty these sayings are? There remains no room for debate. The rewards of being compassionate on parents are colossal so the punishment of doing the opposite is colossal also. There is qadha and kuffara for what are Allah's rights. So in those we can make amends. Here there aren't any. Others' rights Allah does not forgive and only they can, which they won't.

So I think back then since there was not the present newage dirt storm of immorality, inhumanity, injustice and hadiths like these cordoned off these new ailments with takfeer and hellfire, with no "respect" or sugarcoating or respite. "If a man looks at another man lustfully he is awarded the sin of committing adultery, and if he mounts him, he becomes kafir." See how one of the most "discussed" favorite subjects of Shiachat was simply cordoned off? The worst mistake a few are liable to make in their youth, adultery, seems like peanuts in comparison. Islam is a religion of humanity and nature.

Just like Shiachat is constantly bombarded with questions like:

- I can't stop farting in prayers.

- I don't want to pray.

- I have mutah questions.

- I have the habit of masturbation.

- Why I can't earn with usury.

Similarly the marajiya are also bombarded with and their time is consumed by the concerns of the people. Just like when Imam Ali (عليه السلام) said: "Salooni! Salooni! IQabla antafkadooni." people wasted his time with questions like :how many hair are on my head?" etc. While he had said: "I know the paths of skies better than the paths of the earth." Sadly few enough among mankind are interested in the interesting things. I think it is precisely why, to tempt us into doing good, the rewards most listed for the successful are food, sex and tahoor intoxicant. Its because that is what 99.9% are after!~ We don't care to know where the wormhole is in our solar system so we can travel to proxima centauri through it. No. That is all entertainment and business. The animal inside of man likes to oppress the weak and steal resources, give nothing, take everything.

So what can jurisprudence and fiqhi books do? They have already done everything imo.

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19 hours ago, El Cid said:

No idea where I said Prophets were born out of fornication or adultery. I said this: "One is Prostitute does XYZ, gets forgiven, dies and goes to heaven the next night. One is Prostitute does XYZ, gets forgiven and gets honored by a few hebrew Prophets coming from her linage." Both stories show that Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) forgave them whilst they were prostitutes because of something they did. One died after the Karam of Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). One became pious and was honored by a linage of Prophets emerging from her line. The line of a former prostitute. To me, both events show that their professions do not define them. Sure they are mixed up in something bad but they are people as well and Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) can be generous to anyone He(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) wants at any time(He(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) can also give whatever He(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) wants to give, whether it's a line of prophets or heaven.) And that it's not up to us to judge people because the person you think is the furthest away from religion could be closer to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) than you and I which is why I say do not become the spokes-people for God. Don't treat God like a mouth-piece who only does what you want him to do, who only says what you want him to say. You're servants, not the jury. Act like servants.

Though if all you have is zina and adultery and other negative things on your mind, then you will see them everywhere. 

Maybe you misunderstood me and what I was asking:

I was asking you to provide sources for what you were saying, since what you were saying was very outlandish to the common understanding of Gods ways (according to Islam) with regards to the lineages of Prophets. 

I am not interested in discussing this topic or to hear your personal opinions on the matter.

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On 2/1/2021 at 5:14 PM, hasanhh said:

Salam, You and El-Cid are both kinda correct.

ln the 0.T., prostitution was used as one description of idolatry.

Examples:  Context Genesis 35:25, Rachael is the mother of Yusef -(عليه السلام). and Benjamin. Yet Rachael was an idolatress as recounted in Genesis 31:19, 31:32-34.

Ezekiel 16 with the word prostitute in verse 15. Then the word prostitute  is in Jeremiah 3, but you need to start reading with Chapter 2 to get the context.

ln short, idolatry is ranked as prostitution in the 0.T.   Despicable conduct.

This is not an unusual situation --as Quran reveals at Ayat 66:10.

Ws,

With all due respect I dont think what you are saying is relevant to what I was saying.

As far as the O.T and the N.T goes, they are both irrelevant to me as a muslim when it comes to understanding the truth because according to Islam they were both corrupted by the hands of men.

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You posted:

On 2/1/2021 at 10:48 AM, Soldiers and Saffron said:

Sorry but you cannot say something like that without providing sources it would be considered blasphemous otherwise to suggest that some of the Prophets of Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) were children of fornication and had fornicators/adulterers as mothers.

To my knowledge there are no Prophets of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) who were born out of fornication or adultery from a prostitute.

AND:

27 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

Ws,

With all due respect I dont think what you are saying is relevant to what I was saying.

As far as the O.T and the N.T goes, they are both irrelevant to me as a muslim when it comes to understanding the truth because according to Islam they were both corrupted by the hands of men.

You wanted sources and l posted the quick ones which exist. 

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3 hours ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

Maybe you misunderstood me and what I was asking:

I am not interested in discussing this topic or to hear your personal opinions on the matter.

Then don't accuse someone of saying something which they did not nor implied in any way. You said something outlandish and I gave you a simple explaination on what my reading meant. That's all. But just as you're not interested in my words, I'm not interested in looking up anything for you. This was already answered above anyway:

"As for the case of finding this hadith, if I ever come across it again. I'll post it here. I know what I read and I know I'm right, if I wasn't I wouldn't say it because I think misattributing words to any Masoom(عليه السلام) is a serious crime. I also read a thousand things a day, I can't remember where they are from and when I try to find them again it's like finding a needle in a haystack. Believe it, Don't believe it. Either scenarios do not concern me."

Wasalam.

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2 hours ago, hasanhh said:

You posted:

AND:

You wanted sources and l posted the quick ones which exist. 

First of all, OT and NT are not considered sources of truth, I thought that was obvious, otherwise we would be christians and jews instead of muslims.

Second of all, as far as I understand Cid is talking about prostitutes, the literal kind, not the people who commit idolatry and then get refereed to as prostitutes because of that.

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Salam,

Take Salah (prayer) as an example and reflect of the different aspects:

Fighi:

 What the timings of prayer, how to perform wudu', body positioning, direction,  movement, voice level, individual or jamaah..so on.

Intellectual:

Meaning of prayer, how prayer prevent us from Fahsyar and Mungkar, why we need to prayer, how prayer change our behaviors or akhlaq...so on. How prayer affect our social, politics situation, technology, society, ...so on.

Spitirual:

How prayer cleans our inner self or spirituality. How prayer remove our sins that block us from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). How to present ourself to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) with total humility. How to behave in the Presence of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) during prayer.  How is our interactions with Prophet and Imams (عليه السلام) during prayer while in the Presence of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)...so on. 

 

At the individual level, Islam is journey toward Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  Fighi knowledge is part of Islam but insufficient enough to be the main vehicle on the journey toward Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

Wallahualam.

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10 hours ago, layman said:

 

Fighi:

 What the timings of prayer, how to perform wudu', body positioning, direction,  movement, voice level, individual or jamaah..so on.

 

Spitirual:

How prayer cleans our inner self or spirituality. How prayer remove our sins that block us from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). How to present ourself to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) with total humility. How to behave in the Presence of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) during prayer.  How is our interactions with Prophet and Imams (عليه السلام) during prayer while in the Presence of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)...so on. 

 

You can't achieve the spiritual side of Salah without the Fiqh. Fiqh is the door-way to everything so we can't treat it lightly. You can't separate fiqh from spirituality and intellectualism of Islam. 

This entire argument is unreasonable. 

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5 hours ago, El Cid said:

You can't achieve the spiritual side of Salah without the Fiqh. Fiqh is the door-way to everything so we can't treat it lightly. You can't separate fiqh from spirituality and intellectualism of Islam. 

This entire argument is unreasonable. 

Correct,  but praying according to the jurisprudential rules but without sincerity and humility doesn't fulfill the spiritual purpose. 

 

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12 hours ago, El Cid said:

You can't achieve the spiritual side of Salah without the Fiqh. Fiqh is the door-way to everything so we can't treat it lightly. You can't separate fiqh from spirituality and intellectualism of Islam. 

This entire argument is unreasonable. 

Salam,

No one says that to take Fiqh lightly.  But, in a journey to be a servant of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى),  Figh is part of Islam, but is not  sufficient enough to be the main vehicle on the journey.  Islam starts with belief then followed by practices.

The practices are to strengthen the belief.  It has to be based on experiences (feel the benefits from the effects) of doing it.

The minimum level is following the fiqh.  Then based on the self abilities (intellectual strength,  education, time, effort, responsibilities and so on...), he can embark on the intellectual part of Islam and if Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) wills, the person can embark on higher spiritual journey (qurbattan illalah).

If a person skips the fiqh and straight away jumps to intellectual and spiritual parts, that is wrong.  Figh is the minimum starting point of practices in Islam.  No point to practice Islam at the Intellectual and spiritual levels if person don't pray, fast or not having proper hijab.

At same time, we cannot also say Islam is entirely Fiqh.  But, to practice Islam, we need fiqhi knowledge.  If we don't have the knowledge then follow the marjas. Once we lock to the source for solutions of fiqhi issues we can embark on intellectual and spiritual parts.  A highly spiritual person must have strong foundation on fiqh and intellectual parts of Islam.

Once a person asked Ayatullah Bahjat (رضي الله عنه), "What is Irfan?" He said...perform the wajibat.  Meaning, don't embark on high spiritual journey if our rituals related to wajibat are messed up.  One way to mess up is not following the fiqh issues of the wajibat.  

Wallahualam...

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On 1/31/2021 at 4:50 AM, starlight said:

Salam everyone,

I have read and participated in two threads today both related to temporary marriage(Mutah) and going through those threads brought clarity to an issue that had been subconsciously bothering me for some time now. 

Islam, as we all know and agree is more than a religion. It's a way of life. Fiqh forms just one part of our religion.Fiqh mainly comprises basic and necessary laws. The obligatory ones are concerned with the minimally necessary conditions of human perfection and there are others discussing makruh, mustahib acts. 

But there is a second set of rules -Akhlaq, which governs both the world and the soul and provides us with all the rules we need to reach the highest levels of perfection.

For the former there are risalas from marjas but for the latter we need to refer to Thaqalayn (Quran and Ahlulbayt) and while most of us have our marja's tawzeehs on mental speed dials, bookmarked and on WhatsApp hotlines I feel we are badly failing at the latter. Pick up any SC thread and this is how most discussions go - allowed by marja,not permissible, Haram, halal, wajib, that's it. My point is we have closed our minds limited ourselves to tawzeehs mainly out of laziness and apathy. Our principle parameter is now Tawzeeh not Quran and Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام)

Fiqhi rulings are important no doubt but it's Akhlaq(ethics)that forms the essence of Islam.

- Salat wasn't even made obligatory until the twelfth year of Prophethood. Not trying to trivialise Salat or other acts of worship but just saying that there was some things other than Salat that our Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was preaching for a decade - Kindness,mercy,forgiveness, honesty, generosity, decency.

- No where in a risalah you will find: if a man dies leaving behind young children it's obligatory on the Uncles and grandfather to take care of the orphans. So a person who limits himself to marjas rulings - permissible/halal/haram/not obligatory could just say ,'It's not obligatory, I have a choice whether I want to look after those kids or not.'But if we study the Quran looking after orphans has been emphasized so many times. If we look at Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) Imam Ali(عليه السلام) was the 'father of orphans'. Muhammad bin Abu Bakr wasn't his son, going by fiqhi rules one has no obligation towards his step children but going by the ethical set of rules he(عليه السلام) brought him up like his own son.

- Salat ul Layl - not obligatory in fiqh but necessary if one wants to soar to spiritual heights. Quran tells Muslims to spend a part of their night standing in night prayers (chap 73)

- One of the two threads I referred to earlier, pregnancy after mutah. According to fiqhi rules(Sistani) it's not obligatory on the man to support the wife financially during pregnancy but what does Akhlaq set of rules say? 

- The other thread, mutah with a prostitute. According to fiqhi rules it's permissible to have mutah with a different prostitute every night but would a man following Islamic ethics and having some dignity and self respect allow himself to be in such a situation? 

- Fiqh tells you the obligatory financial duties are just Zakat and Khums. Akhlaq is Imam Sajjad(عليه السلام) carrying sacks of food on his back to distribute to the poor.

- Fiqh says nothing about helping single mothers. Akhlaq is Imam Ali(عليه السلام) kneading bread and cooking food for the widow and children of the man martyred in Siffeen. 

And there are countless other examples. What brother @Muhammed Ali said is something for all of us to ponder upon 

 

 So let's strive to incorporate rules of kindness into our religious practices as true followers of a Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) who was mercy to mankind and our Imams(عليه السلام) who were embodiments of generosity, dignity, and grace even with their enemies. Let's not become Muslims who reduce Islam to a set of jurisprudential laws.

 

very enlightening post what you say is actually fundamental of our religion. you spoke of ethics and morality but one aspect of ethics and morality is justice. marajas speak about justice in fiqh now justice does not listen excuses such as if one person is short on income and he has step children, its obligation of their real father to look after them. about pregnancy of woman go through the verses of Quran where it says when a child is born the father is to pay money for breast feeding so here Quran compensates which Ayotullahs know secondly a wife in pregnancy has the right to maintenance but a child in her belly is unborn so she cannot claim for such child until she proves that child needs such thing such as money for supplements which may help child's health while he is in her belly. However, if the father sees that a child is already healthy and doctor does not prescribes any medication, she cannot ask money on his plea but ask what she deserves as a female.

now let us come to empathy and love. love and empathy increases in Zuhud. If a person wants to spend on a pregnant wife on his on volition, ayotullahs would recommend it but if a father has some problem due to his means or habit whatever the problem is and ask ayotullahs about it that is it necessary to be extravagent to make her pregnant wife happy becaues he has other problems obviously ayotullahs say would say it is not appropriate. Ayotullahs speak according to condition and do not know everything and every case in detail so their issues should be taken on the basis of observance of adl or justice which has obviously nothing to do with likes and dislikes of people.

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On 1/31/2021 at 4:50 AM, starlight said:

Salam everyone,

I have read and participated in two threads today both related to temporary marriage(Mutah) and going through those threads brought clarity to an issue that had been subconsciously bothering me for some time now. 

Islam, as we all know and agree is more than a religion. It's a way of life. Fiqh forms just one part of our religion.Fiqh mainly comprises basic and necessary laws. The obligatory ones are concerned with the minimally necessary conditions of human perfection and there are others discussing makruh, mustahib acts. 

But there is a second set of rules -Akhlaq, which governs both the world and the soul and provides us with all the rules we need to reach the highest levels of perfection.

For the former there are risalas from marjas but for the latter we need to refer to Thaqalayn (Quran and Ahlulbayt) and while most of us have our marja's tawzeehs on mental speed dials, bookmarked and on WhatsApp hotlines I feel we are badly failing at the latter. Pick up any SC thread and this is how most discussions go - allowed by marja,not permissible, Haram, halal, wajib, that's it. My point is we have closed our minds limited ourselves to tawzeehs mainly out of laziness and apathy. Our principle parameter is now Tawzeeh not Quran and Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام)

Fiqhi rulings are important no doubt but it's Akhlaq(ethics)that forms the essence of Islam.

- Salat wasn't even made obligatory until the twelfth year of Prophethood. Not trying to trivialise Salat or other acts of worship but just saying that there was some things other than Salat that our Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was preaching for a decade - Kindness,mercy,forgiveness, honesty, generosity, decency.

- No where in a risalah you will find: if a man dies leaving behind young children it's obligatory on the Uncles and grandfather to take care of the orphans. So a person who limits himself to marjas rulings - permissible/halal/haram/not obligatory could just say ,'It's not obligatory, I have a choice whether I want to look after those kids or not.'But if we study the Quran looking after orphans has been emphasized so many times. If we look at Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) Imam Ali(عليه السلام) was the 'father of orphans'. Muhammad bin Abu Bakr wasn't his son, going by fiqhi rules one has no obligation towards his step children but going by the ethical set of rules he(عليه السلام) brought him up like his own son.

- Salat ul Layl - not obligatory in fiqh but necessary if one wants to soar to spiritual heights. Quran tells Muslims to spend a part of their night standing in night prayers (chap 73)

- One of the two threads I referred to earlier, pregnancy after mutah. According to fiqhi rules(Sistani) it's not obligatory on the man to support the wife financially during pregnancy but what does Akhlaq set of rules say? 

- The other thread, mutah with a prostitute. According to fiqhi rules it's permissible to have mutah with a different prostitute every night but would a man following Islamic ethics and having some dignity and self respect allow himself to be in such a situation? 

- Fiqh tells you the obligatory financial duties are just Zakat and Khums. Akhlaq is Imam Sajjad(عليه السلام) carrying sacks of food on his back to distribute to the poor.

- Fiqh says nothing about helping single mothers. Akhlaq is Imam Ali(عليه السلام) kneading bread and cooking food for the widow and children of the man martyred in Siffeen. 

And there are countless other examples. What brother @Muhammed Ali said is something for all of us to ponder upon 

 

 So let's strive to incorporate rules of kindness into our religious practices as true followers of a Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) who was mercy to mankind and our Imams(عليه السلام) who were embodiments of generosity, dignity, and grace even with their enemies. Let's not become Muslims who reduce Islam to a set of jurisprudential laws.

 

i would also like to add that fiqh rulings are derived from vast majority of subjects. the aspects which you mention are few major parts of them which deal with responsibilities attached to others in which case it is necessary for the jurist to think in accordance with justice such as the case of raising step children. on the other hand, one aspect which you spoke of deals with suppression of carnal desire which may turn into a evil if a person is not patient or does not have any suitable alternative as that of prostitute where if a person is laborer and cannot afford a wife, he can make mutah with a prostitute. on the other hand the prostitute is also provided an ethical way of survival which is not fornication but a nikah even for one day after which if she is divorced she has to perform iddah. you never know that a prostitute might be good by heart but never knows about ways taught by religion which may give her idea about survival by maintaining her dignity. 

so marajas know many thing and take into consideration the welfare and rights of person and they do not have to be emotional in their decisions but act according to justice.  

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On 2/2/2021 at 7:59 AM, El Cid said:

The hadith doesn't say. It doesn't name the prostitute nor it names the prophets.

That ends it.

On 2/2/2021 at 7:59 AM, El Cid said:

Though I don't see how it's a problem as out of the thousands of Prophets, we only know the names of just a few dozen and their stories like we know the children of Israel killed hundreds of Prophets.

Problem is that the lineage of Prophethood is pure on both the sides of the sons of Hazrat Ibrahim (عليه السلام). Because his supplication in the Quran for his children to be pure is mentioned and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) accepted his supplication.

Geneology does have an effect on piety and elevated status of a being. We might not consider it in the normal human beings like us. But a Holy Prophet (عليه السلام) who is considered the divine proof of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) can never be from a woman or a man who was involved in committing the acts of indecency. 

I am not saying that such level of repentence cannot happen. Proof is Zuleykha. But Zuleykha never committed adultery. She was just bad in her conduct. And regardless, I don't know if there were any prophets in her progeny.

I am saying that I won't accept it until there is a hadith or any real evidence which says so.

And I won't accept the narrations from Jews and Christians because they make a lot of bad claims about honorable prophets too.

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Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum.

Sub7an'Allah, Islam tells us that the wife is not required to do the housework or cook for her family.  But, if she does cook and clean for her family, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will reward her.  Another example, is when the wife offers water to her husband.  Both examples, fiqh tells us she isn't required, but if she does, based on her akhlaq she will be rewarded in the Hereafter.

Fiqh is only telling us the requirements and what is the minimum obligations we must do.  Akhlaq is about rising in faith and reaching higher status with Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  At a certain time in our lives, we need to not only do wajab and haram, but strive to do what is mustahab and avoid the makroo'.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN ALLAH

The Messenger of Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) has been reported by Imam Ali (عليه السلام) as saying: “One who has the following four features will have the good of this life and the afterlife; piety that keeps him away from prohibitions, good temperament with which he lives among people, forbearance which wards off the ignorance of an ignorant person, and a good wife who assists him in the affairs of this world and the hereafter.”9

Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) said: “Any woman who satisfies her husband with a glass of water will have the reward of devotion of one year (fasting the days and keeping vigil the nights in worshipping). God will build her a town in paradise and will forgive sixty sins of her.”10

  • 9.Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 100, p. 238.
  • 10.Wasa’il al-Shiah, vol. 14, p. 123.
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  • Veteran Member

Bismehe Ta3ala 

Assalam Alikum 

Since we are talking about fiqh issues, when fasting in the month of Ramadhan, one of the rulings to break your fast is if you falsely contribute a hadith to Allah, Rasoul Allah and to the Imams, your fast becomes invalid.

 

(C) Moral/Ethical

10. Kizb (lying) of the highest type —falsely attributing a statement to Allah, the Prophets, and the Imams— makes the fast invalid.

Remember that these actions only make the fast invalid (batil) if they are done knowingly and intentionally. But if it is done unknowingly or by mistake, then the fast is still valid.

https://www.al-islam.org/fasting-ramadhan-simple-guide-ritual-social-spiritual-dimensions-sayyid-muhammad-rizvi/things

M3 Salamah, Fe Amin Allah

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