Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Mutah with immoral person

Rate this topic


Guest Guest Uni

Recommended Posts

I understand that it is not recommended to do temp marriage with a prostitute, but if this is my only choice, is it a better option for me instead of self pleasure? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
7 minutes ago, Guest Guest Uni said:

I understand that it is not recommended to do temp marriage with a prostitute, but if this is my only choice, is it a better option for me instead of self pleasure? 

The wife must be Muslim or from the People of the Book, and she must agree to keep the appropriate iddah.

But yes, it's makrooh, not haram. 

I recommend you ask her to get tested for sexually transmitted diseases, and you get tested after the termination of the marriage also. 

Definitely better to marry a prostitute than to mislead a gullible chaste woman.

Edited by notme
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

How is this possible? Being a Prostitute would mean that she would have had sexual intercourse with other men so how are you even Guaranteed she has past the waiting period? Also after you have done something with her how are you sure she will not do anything with someone else for 2-3 months waiting period? You have to think of these things. Anyone that’s says it’s ok is not normal as if it’s ok. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
46 minutes ago, AliTanjiro said:

How is this possible? Being a Prostitute would mean that she would have had sexual intercourse with other men so how are you even Guaranteed she has past the waiting period? Also after you have done something with her how are you sure she will not do anything with someone else for 2-3 months waiting period? You have to think of these things. Anyone that’s says it’s ok is not normal as if it’s ok. 

It's not up to the man to make sure a woman completes her iddah or not. The man's responsibility is only to make the woman understand this is marriage, not fornication. That's it. 

As for the OP:

Our Ayotallahs allow mutah with prostitutes except Sistani based on obligatory precaution. Though I'd just say where-ever you live, follow the law. If it's not allowed in your city/country, then don't put yourself at risk. Go to a place where prostitution isn't against the law. As for STDs, you'll find yourself more at risk for STDS with regular everyday women than well-groomed "companions". 

Best of luck to you.

 

Edited by El Cid
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
2 minutes ago, El Cid said:

It's not up to the man to make sure a woman completes her iddah or not. The man's responsibility is only to make the woman understand this is marriage, not fornication. That's it. 

Again what was said in the Mutah pregnancy thread. It's not just about the rules. Men shouldn't be thinking about just fulfilling their desires. There is more to it. What if an immoral woman falls pregnant? How would the man make sure that the child is his or someone else's? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
3 minutes ago, starlight said:

There is more to it. What if an immoral woman falls pregnant? How would the man make sure that the child is his or someone else's? 

Protection and DNA tests.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
Just now, El Cid said:

Protection and DNA tests.

Right! And if the child is his, he would own and raise him with the (prostitute) mother ??? or religiousity and social pressures would now suddenly be his priority? 

I suppose all this is easier than practising self control. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
1 minute ago, starlight said:

Right! And if the child is his, he would own and raise him with the (prostitute) mother ??? or religiousity and social pressures would now suddenly be his priority? 

I suppose all this is easier than practising self control. 

 

Odds of him impregnating a prostitute are one in one billion considering he'll be using protection hopefully:

When used correctly every time you have sex, male condoms are 98% effective. This means 2 out of 100 people will become pregnant in 1 year when male condoms are used as contraception. You can get free condoms from contraception clinics, sexual health clinics and some GP surgeries.

And also I'd assume most women in this profession would be wearing some sort of birth control. 

Though I'm not really here defending anything lol I'd only advice the OP to follow the laws of his country as I wouldn't want him putting himself at risk for something like this. Though I do sympathize with him. Impossible marriage demands. Oversexualized world. A world where no one talks to one another.

If some halal ways exist for people in OP's situation, then by all means they should go for them but the conditions have to be respect for the law aka not putting one self at risk and practicing safe sex.

Wasalam.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
3 minutes ago, starlight said:

Okay, I understand. There are men who are slaves of their base desires even if it means degrading yourself to a subhuman level, history is full of them. 

Fortunately for the OP, the judgement is not yours to make. Calling makrooh or halal acts "degrading" and "subhuman level" is an insult to the religion and the One who the religion belongs to. The social forum is there to help people and sympathize with people. As Jesus Christ(عليه السلام) says Let him throw the stone who is without sin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
2 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Fortunately for the OP, the judgement is not yours to make. Calling makrooh or halal acts "degrading" and "subhuman level" is an insult to the religion and the One who the religion belongs to. The social forum is there to help people and sympathize with people. As Jesus Christ(عليه السلام) says Let him throw the stone who is without sin.

I made a general statement about those men fail to practise self control hence are slaves to their sexual desires. Women are too sometimes, you can argue, but it's usually men we see and in order to fulfill those they have not shyed away from bestiality, incest and prostitution. The former two are subhuman and latter is degrading. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
10 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Fortunately for the OP, the judgement is not yours to make. Calling makrooh or halal acts "degrading" and "subhuman level" is an insult to the religion and the One who the religion belongs to. The social forum is there to help people and sympathize with people. As Jesus Christ(عليه السلام) says Let him throw the stone who is without sin.

Some people don’t need sympathy, they need honesty. It is halal to do many things, but even then it wouldn’t be best to deal with particular issues and something which is halal can lead to haram.

E.g. The OP does his whole prostitution thing, he then develops a perversion for the ease of just paying for intercourse and reaches a point where shaytan comes and is able to come through this “halal” door and encourage his perversion, from which he will continue resorting to prostitute after prostitute. His conception of respected and dignified woman is going to be that of a simple means of gratification. May Allah guide us all and deliver us from rationalizing clear deviation with the excuse of “halal” and “haram”.

Edited by Mohammad313Ali
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
8 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Fortunately for the OP, the judgement is not yours

If a man chooses to eat something halal that's been lying in a cesspool over going hungry for some time ,I agree with you, it's their call. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
5 minutes ago, starlight said:

I made a general statement about those men fail to practise self control hence are slaves to their sexual desires. Women are too sometimes, you can argue, but it's usually men we see and in order to fulfill those they have not shyed away from bestiality, incest and prostitution. The former two are subhuman and latter is degrading. 

I don't really want this to turn into some argument based around sexism and battle of the genders so let's just leave that part out. You're free to believe what you want to believe though it does take two to tango. So remember that. As for the act being "degrading". Once again that's your opinion. It has nothing to do with religion and you shouldn't defame something makrooh or halal as something "degrading". That's wrong.

2 minutes ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

Some people don’t need sympathy, they need honesty. It is halal to do many things, but even then it wouldn’t best to deal with issues and something which is halal can lead to haram.

E.g. The OP does his whole prostitution thing, he then develops a perversion for the ease of just paying for intercourse and reaches a point where shaytan comes and is able to come through this “halal” door and encourage his perversion, from which he will continue resorting to prostitute after prostitute. His conception of respected a dignified woman is going to be that of a simple means of gratification. May Allah guide us all and deliver us from rationalizing clear deviation with the excuse of “halal” and “haram”.

Once again, that's your opinion and judgement. You can't decide his fate like you're the one penning it. But if you try to prevent people from doing something halal or try to judge them for doing something halal, then that's the Sunnah of Umar ibn Al Khattab. Not a Shi'a. 

This is the stance of a very respected Marja on this issue:

Grand Ayatollah Sayyad Mohammad Saeed Al- Hakeem

Q: Amongst the young generation it is almost IMPOSSIBLE now to find a girl for mut'aa to gratify sexual needs in the West and also in the East. Can't we be allowed to do mut'aa with prostitutes for sexual pleasure?

A: It is permissible to marry a prostitute temporarily provided that she understands that it is a religious contract for marriage and not a fee for adultery.

Q: Is it permissible to have mutaa - temperary marriage - with a woman who commits adultery with men?

Is it permissible to have mutaa with a woman who probably commits prostitution and adultery as a job?

A: Yes, it is allowed in both cases.

I don't think a very learned man like the aforementioned personality would permit something which would be degrading and subhuman level to members of a pure religion. You guys could however go study for 60-70 years like Him and then we can go with your judgement. I'll see you in 60 years sister starlight and brother MuhammadAli. I think that concludes my opinion on this discussion and topic.

Wasalam.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
2 minutes ago, El Cid said:

defame something makrooh or halal as something "degrading"

Bhai, the word makruh literally translates to offensive or detestable. But if you think doing something  that is abominable according to religious rules is not degrading(why would it even be makruh if it's not spiritually degrading but okay), fine that's your opinion. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
4 minutes ago, El Cid said:

that's your opinion and judgement.

It is brother, I am giving the most genuine advice that I can, that I believe would help the brother in his life long term. It’s not as black and white as a fatwa from a scholar, it’s more a particularity in which the greater option for the brother would be abstinence, for reason which I mentioned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Think of it this way.

People have sexual desires. Everyone. Every. Person. Whoever says they don’t is either traumatized or straight-up lying. Wether that’s low or high, is biology. It doesn’t mean that men “can’t control their desires” if they have a high sex drive and need to find an outlet. 
 

The OP could have just had a one night stand, but he wants to do Mutah. Granted, it’s not the best person to do it with, but honestly, who really cares? And realistically, how many women get pregnant if prevention is used correctly? People have sex for years and years using prevention and the majority of people don’t get pregnant. What’s one Mutah going to do, in the grand scheme of things?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
6 minutes ago, El Cid said:

that's the Sunnah of Umar ibn Al Khattab. Not a Shi'a. 

Actually, the Shia-Zaidi Madhab also considers mutah to be haram, so it isn’t just a Sunni idea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Just now, starlight said:

Bhai, the word makruh literally translates to offensive or detestable. But if you think doing something  that is abominable according to religious rules is not degrading(why would it even be makruh if it's not spiritually degrading but okay), fine that's your opinion. 

You don't get punished for makruh acts so it's not spiritually degrading. Hence the point doesn't stand. Though like I said it is halal according to some scholars. So again, it'd be a point of turning something permissable whether in a green or gray line into something that is red -< This act has greater spiritual consequences than a makrooh act ever will. 

But like I said, I gave my opinion. You guys gave yours. End of story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
1 minute ago, Caroling said:

The OP could have just had a one night stand, but he wants to do Mutah. Granted, it’s not the best person to do it with, but honestly, who really cares? And realistically, how many women get pregnant if prevention is used correctly? People have sex for years and years using prevention and the majority of people don’t get pregnant. What’s one Mutah going to do, in the grand scheme of things?  

This is very flawed reasoning.

What is one pill of Xanax going to do?

What is one weed brownie going to do?

What is one bottle of alcohol going to do?

In his context:

What is contributing to a system of sex-trafficking going to do? I mean seriously do you people not consider that even permitting this idea of sex with prostitutes through Mutah is a door which opens a field of prostitution in society? 

Sexual intercourse is a spiritual and carnal act, when he engages with such a deviant woman a فاسقة who has no sense of dignity then there is without a shadow of doubt an effect that will be drawn on his spirit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
9 minutes ago, El Cid said:

You don't get punished for makruh acts so it's not spiritually degrading

I understand you don't want to continue the discussion and neither do I, so you don't have yo reply. I am just asking you to study a little bit more about the spiritual effects related to different categories of actions - mustahib, makruh,mubah and haram, just for general Islamic knowledge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

prostitutes through Mutah is a door which opens a field of prostitution in society

Is having sex through Mutah with a prostitute better than having zina with a prostitute? Yes or no?

Edited by Caroling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
4 minutes ago, Caroling said:

Is having sex through Mutah with a prostitute better than having zina with a prostitute? Yes or no?

Why does it have to be with a prostitute? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
3 minutes ago, starlight said:

I understand you don't want to continue the discussion and neither do I, so you don't have yo reply. I am just asking you to study a little bit more about the spiritual effects related to different categories of actions - mustahib, makruh,mubah and haram, just for general Islamic knowledge.

Thank you. I'm well versed on the topic you mentioned but the main point we're discussing is that: It is halal to some. It is makruh to some. It is haram to some. So we can't really comment on the topic and pass judgements unless we both go become scholars ourselves. 

So that's about it, really. Anyway, enjoy your afternoon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, starlight said:

Why does it have to be with a prostitute? 

We don’t know why the OP wants to have sex with a prostitute via mutah. But the OP is asking if it’s Haram, halal, or makrooh, anyway. We are supposed to answer based on what the Marjas conclude, not demeaning his decision based on our own feelings. (which personally I’m against his desire to have Mutah with a prostitute. But it doesn’t matter.) It’s better than committing zina at the end of the day. People are complex and do things that don’t always make sense to us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Just now, Caroling said:

Prostitution has always existed. It doesn’t just magically appear with Mutah. Some women and men are forced into prostitution. 

So much haram has always existed, what’s your point? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
4 hours ago, Guest Guest Uni said:

I understand that it is not recommended to do temp marriage with a prostitute, but if this is my only choice, is it a better option for me instead of self pleasure? 

By Law,

Sayyid al Sistani says:

Question: Is it permissible to marry a lewd woman (prostitute)?

Answer: If a man wishes to marry a woman of loose character, he should, as a precaution, wait till she becomes Pak from her menses, irrespective of whether he had committed fornication with her, or anyone else had done so.
 
Now, for rest of the part I will refrain to comment because I don't think OP has given enough information. What is forcing you for such a marriage? Why is this the only choice? 
Explain it in detail brother. If you are hesitant about it then ask someone privately on messages. 
 
Advices can be given even if you don't ask but it is useless. We can help you brother but provide the entire information in detail. If you are hesitant then do it on message.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

So much haram has always existed, what’s your point? 

That the OP is asking about the halal route to having sex, not “What does ShiaChat think about me wanting to have sex with prostitute?” 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

sense of dignity then there is without a shadow of doubt an effect that will be drawn on his spirit.

Wrong, because Mutah is Mutah. What you’re saying is literally your opinion. Some men want to have one night stands, some men want to do Mutah, some men want to get married to have sex, some men have sex outside of marriage. Some men have foot fetishes. People are different. You can’t expect everyone to be the same, think like you do, or behave like you. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
25 minutes ago, Caroling said:

That the OP is asking about the halal route to having sex, not “What does ShiaChat think about me wanting to have sex with prostitute?” 

He’s asking for

 

5 hours ago, Guest Guest Uni said:

is it a better option for me

I gave my opinion on why not doing this terrible act which can lead to him going astray is not a better option for him. 

The calamity is when we become so infatuated with jurisprudence we lose our reason, we become parrots to maraj3 regurgitating ruling after ruling. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
21 minutes ago, Caroling said:

Wrong, because Mutah is Mutah. What you’re saying is literally your opinion. Some men want to have one night stands, some men want to do Mutah, some men want to get married to have sex, some men have sex outside of marriage. Some men have foot fetishes. People are different. You can’t expect everyone to be the same, think like you do, or behave like you. 

Try thinking outside of fiqh, maybe step into the real world? Where it is devastating to see a Muslim and a lover of Ali ((عليه السلام)) resorting to prostitution?! By Allah we truly have failed as a community if we allow this travesty. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...