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In the Name of God بسم الله

Dialogue with Ladies

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Marcy

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Hello ladies,

I am a follower of Jesus, and I am looking for another lady who can help me understand the culture and the faith of my muslim friends.  The teachings of the Injeel, God has called us to love everyone because He is love.  There seems to be so much misunderstanding in the world, and I believe we are all looking for truth.  Maybe we can come to a greater understanding of each other when we share our own culture, traditions and faith.

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Welcome to shiachat. Please take a moment to read the forum rules (link in my signature) so your participation will be a positive experience. 

Islam is all over the world - there is no specific Islamic culture. What questions do you have? 

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16 minutes ago, notme said:

Welcome to shiachat. Please take a moment to read the forum rules (link in my signature) so your participation will be a positive experience. 

Islam is all over the world - there is no specific Islamic culture. What questions do you have? 

I was just wondering about the different beliefs and traditions and if they are similar to mine.  I spoke with someone one time who was muslim who said we were not far apart.  I am looking for common ground.  Should this not be the website I need to be on?

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16 hours ago, Marcy said:

I was just wondering about the different beliefs and traditions and if they are similar to mine.  I spoke with someone one time who was muslim who said we were not far apart.  I am looking for common ground.  Should this not be the website I need to be on?

I used to be a christian who is now a shia. If you maybe ask more specific questions we can help you more.

We believe that all past religions came to ease the way for the guidelines that prophet Mohammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) gave, that we now find in the islamic sharia.

Which makes christianity a part of islam.

We do not believe that God has sent his son to save humanity from sins, this would make sins hereditary and plus why would someone be questioned or responsible over the things they hadn't done. Despite the other primary important thing which is that we believe God is One and that there is nothing like him in this world. Nor there is someone before him or after him. 

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On 1/30/2021 at 9:27 AM, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

I used to be a christian who is now a shia. If you maybe ask more specific questions we can help you more.

We believe that all past religions came to ease the way for the guidelines that prophet Mohammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) gave, that we now find in the islamic sharia.

Which makes christianity a part of islam.

We do not believe that God has sent his son to save humanity from sins, this would make sins hereditary and plus why would someone be questioned or responsible over the things they hadn't done. Despite the other primary important thing which is that we believe God is One and that there is nothing like him in this world. Nor there is someone before him or after him. 

I have found that what I believe and what God has spoken can be two different things.  When I put my faith in my own self, I fail, because I am imperfect.  God is perfect in every way, so I choose to put my faith in Him.  The only way that I can begin to know God and His ways is through His Word found in the Zabur, Tawrat and Injeel.  I have found that when man begins to add to, take away, or interpret what God has spoken, then the truth is distorted. A favorite word of the Tawrat is Deut 8:6 "Therefore you shall keep the commandments of the Lord your God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him."  and Prov 9:10 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding."     

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19 minutes ago, Marcy said:

have found that what I believe and what God has spoken can be two different things.  When I put my faith in my own self, I fail, because I am imperfect. 

Ok, but you really can't expect answers from us regular people unless you ask questions. What do you want to know about Islam in general or Shia beliefs and traditions in particular? 

We believe in one God, who is most gracious, most merciful, Creator and Sustainer of all that is. 

I recommend picking up a translation of the Quran and reading to learn the basics of what Muslims believe. You can also find a lot of information at https://www.al-islam.org/

Prayers that you find what you need.

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1 hour ago, notme said:

What do you want to know about Islam in general or Shia beliefs and traditions in particular? 

She is probably looking to convert people to Christianity.

@Marcy please explain to us why God made humans inherit the sin of Prophet Adam {a}. Isn't this unjust of God?

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2 hours ago, notme said:

Ok, but you really can't expect answers from us regular people unless you ask questions. What do you want to know about Islam in general or Shia beliefs and traditions in particular? 

We believe in one God, who is most gracious, most merciful, Creator and Sustainer of all that is. 

I recommend picking up a translation of the Quran and reading to learn the basics of what Muslims believe. You can also find a lot of information at https://www.al-islam.org/

Prayers that you find what you need.

Oh, I am so much of a regular person myself, so thank you for your suggestions and the link to help me have a better understanding of your faith. 

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15 hours ago, Marcy said:

I have found that what I believe and what God has spoken can be two different things.  When I put my faith in my own self, I fail, because I am imperfect.  God is perfect in every way, so I choose to put my faith in Him.  The only way that I can begin to know God and His ways is through His Word found in the Zabur, Tawrat and Injeel.  I have found that when man begins to add to, take away, or interpret what God has spoken, then the truth is distorted. A favorite word of the Tawrat is Deut 8:6 "Therefore you shall keep the commandments of the Lord your God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him."  and Prov 9:10 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding."     

Hi , sorry for interrupting the ladies post :blush: but I couldn't hold myself & don't share it with you the following links for sake of our common grounds.

Mary And Jesus In Islam

http://www.islamicmobility.com/book-details/Mary And Jesus In Islam

http://www.islamicmobility.com//pdf/MARY AND JESUS IN ISLAM.pdf

Allah The Concept Of God In Islam

http://www.islamicmobility.com/book-details/Allah The Concept of God In Islam

Allah The Concept Of God In Islam Vol 2

http://www.islamicmobility.com/book-details/Allah The Concept Of God In Islam Vol 2

other books from  Yasin T. Al-Jibouri

http://www.islamicmobility.com/book/author/Yasin T Al Jabouri

https://www.al-islam.org/person/yasin-t-al-jibouri

:sign_welcome:

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On 2/2/2021 at 10:40 AM, Muhammed Ali said:

She is probably looking to convert people to Christianity.

@Marcy please explain to us why God made humans inherit the sin of Prophet Adam {a}. Isn't this unjust of God?

I must answer this with a story of myself.  As a young child growing up, I realized that I had consciousness.  I was alive, breathing, and had a mind.  I knew that there were many varying skin colors as well as different religions, cultures, and the like.  I often wondered why I was born in a country founded on Christian principles and not Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, etc.  God could have put ME anywhere in this world!  From the beginning I searched to know God and it took me many years to realize that the love of God was constantly was in my life even when I didn't know it, pulling me into a personal relationship with Him.  Because it was my desire to know Him more, He began to reveal Himself to me.  I learned that God brought creation into this world to worship Him.  He desired a personal relationship with mankind, as He did in the beginning when He created Adam and Eve.  In the Tawrat God spoke in Gen 8:21 saying ..."for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth."  We did not inherit this sin from Adam.  It was already in our nature.  When we are born, we do not know sin.  It's amazing to me how a little child, if asked it they took the cookie, will automatically tell you no, if they think they will get in trouble."  Since God is all knowing and all powerful, He knew mankind would disobey his commands.  Our disobedience is sin against the Almighty God, and in His mercy, He provided a way for us to be redeemed, because of His unconditional love for us.  We cannot blame God for our own sinful nature.  God Himself has called none good.  He could have created us to be puppets on a string, but what kind of relationship would that be?  He desires our worship and our love.  When we love Him, who is love, then we love others as ourselves.  I do not call this unjust of God when He is a Holy God.  Who am I, as His creation question God? 

I leave you with this verse from the Tawrat in Deut 6:4-7.  "The Lord our God is one Lord: and you shall love the Lord thy God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your might.  These words, which I command you this day shall be in your heart: and you shall teach them diligently unto your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and walk by the way, and when you lie down and when you rise up."      

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4 hours ago, Marcy said:

I must answer this with a story of myself.  As a young child growing up, I realized that I had consciousness.  I was alive, breathing, and had a mind.  I knew that there were many varying skin colors as well as different religions, cultures, and the like.  I often wondered why I was born in a country founded on Christian principles and not Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, etc.  God could have put ME anywhere in this world!  From the beginning I searched to know God and it took me many years to realize that the love of God was constantly was in my life even when I didn't know it, pulling me into a personal relationship with Him.  Because it was my desire to know Him more, He began to reveal Himself to me.  I learned that God brought creation into this world to worship Him.  He desired a personal relationship with mankind, as He did in the beginning when He created Adam and Eve.  In the Tawrat God spoke in Gen 8:21 saying ..."for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth."  We did not inherit this sin from Adam.  It was already in our nature.  When we are born, we do not know sin.  It's amazing to me how a little child, if asked it they took the cookie, will automatically tell you no, if they think they will get in trouble."  Since God is all knowing and all powerful, He knew mankind would disobey his commands.  Our disobedience is sin against the Almighty God, and in His mercy, He provided a way for us to be redeemed, because of His unconditional love for us.  We cannot blame God for our own sinful nature.  God Himself has called none good.  He could have created us to be puppets on a string, but what kind of relationship would that be?  He desires our worship and our love.  When we love Him, who is love, then we love others as ourselves.  I do not call this unjust of God when He is a Holy God.  Who am I, as His creation question God? 

I leave you with this verse from the Tawrat in Deut 6:4-7.  "The Lord our God is one Lord: and you shall love the Lord thy God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your might.  These words, which I command you this day shall be in your heart: and you shall teach them diligently unto your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and walk by the way, and when you lie down and when you rise up."      

Salaam sister,

What are your thoughts about the Quranic verses below?

Chapter 112:

1) Say: He, Allah, is One.

(2) Allah is He on Whom all depend.

(3) He begets not, nor is He begotten.

(4) And none is like Him.

What I feel is that you are searching for yourself and therefore you need a connect. Jazakallah.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) be your guide

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5 hours ago, Marcy said:

We did not inherit this sin from Adam.  It was already in our nature.  When we are born, we do not know sin.  It's amazing to me how a little child, if asked it they took the cookie, will automatically tell you no, if they think they will get in trouble."  Since God is all knowing and all powerful, He knew mankind would disobey his commands.  Our disobedience is sin against the Almighty God, and in His mercy, He provided a way for us to be redeemed, because of His unconditional love for us.  We cannot blame God for our own sinful nature.  God Himself has called none good.  He could have created us to be puppets on a string, but what kind of relationship would that be?  He desires our worship and our love. 

Your view isn't Christianity. The Christian view is that we inherited the sin. Unless you can provide evidence that your view is a minority Christian view.

However even if your view is more rational than the traditional Christian view, it is still irrational. 

Can you explain why a just God would create us with sin in our nature? The Islamic view is that God created us with free will and taught our nature what is right and wrong, Then we freely chose to do wrong. Our nature was pure and not sinful. This is a superior and more respectable notion of God.

Secondly why does God need to have himself killed and then ask for us to believe that his submission to death is the only way to have the sin removed? This is very bizarre. The rational thing would be to ask people to purify themselves through good acts and betterment of character. This is what Islam teaches and it is a far more rational and sensible belief.

 

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I wonder if the question about sin and birth can be answered by asking another question?

What is sin?

If sin is a series of actions which go against God's moral code then obviously a new born baby has not sinned.  I wonder though how soon it is before they do something selfish?

However if sin is about a state.  The state of being in a broken relationship with God.  Then it is understandable that a new born baby is born into a state where they are not in a close personal loving relationship with God.

The consiquences of this broken relationship is that we do things that put ourselves in the center and not God.

God in his grace and mercy may reach out to newly born babies and interact with them in a different way.  There is no way we can really know.  So I feel that asking the question about a baby is a 'red herring' to get us away from letting God's light shine on our own hearts.  What about me?  What about you?  Do our shameful acts come from a "me" centred life.  Or do we have a loving intemate relationship with God that results in God honouring actions that come from a "God" centred life?

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On 2/3/2021 at 9:18 PM, Muhammed Ali said:

Your view isn't Christianity. The Christian view is that we inherited the sin. Unless you can provide evidence that your view is a minority Christian view.

However even if your view is more rational than the traditional Christian view, it is still irrational. 

Can you explain why a just God would create us with sin in our nature? The Islamic view is that God created us with free will and taught our nature what is right and wrong, Then we freely chose to do wrong. Our nature was pure and not sinful. This is a superior and more respectable notion of God.

Secondly why does God need to have himself killed and then ask for us to believe that his submission to death is the only way to have the sin removed? This is very bizarre. The rational thing would be to ask people to purify themselves through good acts and betterment of character. This is what Islam teaches and it is a far more rational and sensible belief.

 

I hope to be able to respond to you with clarity.  When God created Adam and Eve, he desired a personal relationship with them, as He does for all mankind.  He walked with them in the garden of Eden.  It wasn't until they rebelled against God's commandments, by their own free will, did that relationship become severed.  His desire was obedience, but man chose disobedience.  Because God is just and holy, do we not deserve punishment for our disobedience, our sin?  In the Zabur, Ps 14:2&3 says "The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand and seek God.  They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that do good, no, not one.  Because God, being the Almighty God who is all knowing, He had already, from the beginning of time, a plan to bring man back into that relationship.  In the Tawrat, God required a sinless spotless lamb to be sacrifice for the cleansing of sins.  Atonement can only come by a blood sacrifice.  This sacrifice was only temporary and God had already planned a remedy and spoke through many of the prophets in the Tawrat about his plan, to bring hope to mankind that they would no longer have to be separated from himself.  According to the Injeel, He chose to send his Son, Jesus to be that sinless lamb, that blood sacrifice, so that our sins could be forgiven.  I do not question God, for he says in IS 55:8 the "My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, thus saith the Lord, for as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."  When I try on my own merits to be good, I fail.  God is perfect in every way.  Jesus was sinless and perfect in every way.  That is why I need a Savior.  God chose to sacrifice himself because he knew man could not pay the price needed.  That is how much he loves us.

       

On 2/3/2021 at 8:32 PM, Zainuu said:

Salaam sister,

What are your thoughts about the Quranic verses below?

Chapter 112:

1) Say: He, Allah, is One.

(2) Allah is He on Whom all depend.

(3) He begets not, nor is He begotten.

(4) And none is like Him.

What I feel is that you are searching for yourself and therefore you need a connect. Jazakallah.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) be your guide

I believe in one God and all my faith is in Him and Him alone, and there is none like Him nor is there any other.  I believe in the truth of the Injeel.  He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last, according to Rev 22:13 in the Injeel.  1Jn 4:9 in the Injeel says, "In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him." With this, I cannot agree with 3) of the Qur'an.  

 

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So... the forbidden tree was the tree of knowledge of good and evil, right? Why would God not want humans to choose to accept the burden of knowledge? Without it, they don't really have functional free will. 

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2 hours ago, Marcy said:

believe in one God and all my faith is in Him and Him alone, and there is none like Him nor is there any other.  I believe in the truth of the Injeel.  He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last, according to Rev 22:13 in the Injeel.  1Jn 4:9 in the Injeel says, "In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him." With this, I cannot agree with 3) of the Qur'an.  

Is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) just according to you?

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On 2/9/2021 at 8:03 PM, Zainuu said:

Is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) just according to you?

God is who He says He is. He is the Great I Am. There is only one God who created the heavens and the earth. No human has the right to say who God is. He is truth and what He says is truth. 

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14 hours ago, Marcy said:

God is who He says He is. He is the Great I Am. There is only one God who created the heavens and the earth. No human has the right to say who God is. He is truth and what He says is truth. 

Yeah. That's perfectly correct.

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says

On 2/4/2021 at 8:02 AM, Zainuu said:

1) Say: He, Allah, is One.

(2) Allah is He on Whom all depend.

(3) He begets not, nor is He begotten.

(4) And none is like Him.

So, if we cannot say anything about God from our side (to which I agree) then let us atleast try to understand, what God says for himself.

I want your perspective on 'God being just' because I have verses that support it.

Quote

 

“God commands justice and fair dealing…” [Quran, 16:90]

“O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allah, even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allah is more worthy of both.” [Quran, 4:135]

 

 

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On 2/12/2021 at 4:52 AM, Zainuu said:

Yeah. That's perfectly correct.

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says

So, if we cannot say anything about God from our side (to which I agree) then let us atleast try to understand, what God says for himself.

I want your perspective on 'God being just' because I have verses that support it.

 

In the Injeel, Rev 15: 3&4 says "And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are your works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are your ways, oh King of saints. Who shall not fear you, O Lord, and glorify your name? for you only are Holy: for all nations shall come and worship before you; for your judgments are made manifest." 

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