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In the Name of God بسم الله

Lowering Gaze and Trans.

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Salam.

Do you have to lower gaze from trans women? Usually they have some sort of tell or indication that they are trans such as overly artificial faces or manly shoulders or other masculine features. Some completely look like women who you can never tell are trans. 

Is there any shi'a resource about this?

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49 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Salam.

Do you have to lower gaze from trans women? Usually they have some sort of tell or indication that they are trans such as overly artificial faces or manly shoulders or other masculine features. Some completely look like women who you can never tell are trans. 

Is there any shi'a resource about this?

Generally you can't help but not look because they look so weird (to put it mildly) but after one look generally you don't want a second.

Edited by Ali_Hussain
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2 hours ago, notme said:

What are you going to do - stare?

May as well err on the side of caution and lower your gaze. What's the reason not to? 

 

2 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

Generally you can't help but not look because they look so weird (to put it mildly) but after one look generally you don't want a second.

It's not about staring or wanting a second look. Believe it or not, trans women do exist in societies and you can/will run into them if you're in school or you work. I don't work yet but I am in school and there are some class-mates of mine who are trans women. They can either fall into the tell category or not. You also have to interact with people in school like in group projects or talking generally. Believe it or not, men have to keep their gaze lowered when conversing with women; not just asking about walking on the street. I keep my gaze lowered when I talk to women in a subtle way which does not offend people but does not offend my spirituality either. Hence my question and I think it's an important question for men who practice modesty. 

Well, the reasoning on not to would be confusion pretty much. Trans women can be Pre-Op or Post-Op when it comes to their genitals. I don't know how Islam treats this sensitive issue hence I'd like input.

Also a slight request. Please talk about this issue respectfully without any insults or mistreatment towards Trans women/men. They are human beings and creations of Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Once the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) stood up for the funeral of a Non-Muslim and his companions asked why. The Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said "Didn't this person have a soul?". The same logic applies here. Just stick to the topic.

Edited by El Cid
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If the person is considered female according to Shari'ah then lowering your gaze is necessary. If one does not know whether the person is male or female then if the said person can commonly be considered as a female, lowering the gaze should still be done.

Edited by Muhammad Al-Hurr
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@El Cid

Question : Would you be so kind to inform me what the situation of transexuals in Islam is?
Answer : Transforming to a female can be of two forms:
1. If the person is really a female with feminine specifications like a womb and female reproduction organs but with some male characters and the transformation process is merely to strengthen her feminism and show its clear characters then the said person is actually a female and all applicable laws apply to her.
2. If the said person is actually a male with some feminine characters like fineness in voice or similar characters then it is not allowed to consider that person a female.
Question : A girl has naturally lots of male hormones. She intends to get surgery to become a male, and currently the only semi-visible female characteristics her body has are her breasts. Is it permissible that she uses male clothing?
Answer : If the said girl has female genitals and not male genitals, she should consider herself to be a girl and it is not permissible for her to imitate men by wearing male clothes. She can treat herself for the excessive male hormones medically.
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5 hours ago, El Cid said:

Trans women can be Pre-Op or Post-Op when it comes to their genitals. I don't know how Islam treats this sensitive issue hence I'd like input.

From an Islamic point of view according to those marjas who allow gender surgery, a post-op trans woman is a woman. If you don't know whether the person is post-op, you should err on the side of caution and lower your gaze. If you genuinely believe the person to be male and continue eye contact, and then find out later that she is a woman, you will need to adjust your interaction when you know. 

Similarly with a trans man, if you believe the person is female and lower your gaze, and then find out he is a post-op man, you can adjust your interaction. 

But as I see it, there's no harm in lowering your gaze. 

Edited by notme
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16 hours ago, El Cid said:

 some sort of tell or indication that they are trans such as overly artificial faces or manly shoulders or other masculine features. 

Outwardly they may appear as a woman to see the signs you would have to stare.

If you couldn't find the signs then you have been staring at a non mahrem trying to work out if she was a tran.

If you already know they are tran my advice don't stare or talk keep well away :grin:

 

Edited by Warilla
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