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In the Name of God بسم الله

Forgiveness or Punishment?

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Salam.

Something I'm curious about. Many of us do not live in Shariah-driven countries and even Muslim countries do not follow Shariah laws wholly. 

So how exactly are we forgiven? For example let's say person X drinks alcohol. He repents and does not do it again. Is asking for repentance enough or does he have to get tied to a post and be lashed 80 times as well to be forgiven truly? And if there's no shariah, then how does he get whipped assuming the latter also has to be excercised. 

Wasalam.

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As long as the person repents and never does it again, Allah will forgive him. In real sharia, if a person commits a sin who's punishment is physical beating, he can get out of it if by doing tauba, even if the crime is severe like adultery.

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I don't think punishment and forgiveness are directly linked.... 

Certainly I've seen traditions that indicate that punishment in this life will decrease punishment in the after, but I have seen no indication that punishment is required for forgiveness. 

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. 

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"You should know that no matter how grave the sins are, whenever the sinner repents to Allah, He accepts his repentance and pardons him. Allah, The Exalted, says (what means): {Say: O My servants who have transgressed against themselves (by sinning), do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He Who is the Forgiving, the Merciful.} [Quran 39:53]. The Prophet, sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, said, "The one who repents from sin is like one who did not sin." [Ibn Maajah]. It is sufficient for you to repent to Allah, The Exalted, of the sins that you have committed, between you and Him, and He will forgive you and pardon your sins as long as your repentance is sincere. The execution of the relevant Hadd (i.e. corporal punishment prescribed for certain crimes set by the Sharia) is not a condition for the acceptance of repentance. Rather, when a sinner repents to Allah, The Exalted, of his sin, his repentance is sufficient, and it is better to conceal his sin instead of reporting it to the ruler to subject him to the Hadd, if he lives in a country that applies the Hudood (pl. of Hadd)."

https://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/339265/execution-of-hadd-not-condition-for-acceptance-of-repentance

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12 hours ago, Ain-Al Hayat said:

"You should know that no matter how grave the sins are, whenever the sinner repents to Allah, He accepts his repentance and pardons him. Allah, The Exalted, says (what means): {Say: O My servants who have transgressed against themselves (by sinning), do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He Who is the Forgiving, the Merciful.} [Quran 39:53]. The Prophet, sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, said, "The one who repents from sin is like one who did not sin." [Ibn Maajah]. It is sufficient for you to repent to Allah, The Exalted, of the sins that you have committed, between you and Him, and He will forgive you and pardon your sins as long as your repentance is sincere. The execution of the relevant Hadd (i.e. corporal punishment prescribed for certain crimes set by the Sharia) is not a condition for the acceptance of repentance. Rather, when a sinner repents to Allah, The Exalted, of his sin, his repentance is sufficient, and it is better to conceal his sin instead of reporting it to the ruler to subject him to the Hadd, if he lives in a country that applies the Hudood (pl. of Hadd)."

https://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/339265/execution-of-hadd-not-condition-for-acceptance-of-repentance

Is this a Shia source ? 

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14 hours ago, notme said:

but I have seen no indication that punishment is required for forgiveness. 

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. 

:salam:

Quote

The Messenger of Allah ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) said on his pulpit:… I swear by the one whom no one is worthy of worship except Allah, Allah does not punish any believer after repenting and asking for forgiveness except for his suspicion of Allah and fault in hope and bad mood and backbiting  of beleivers. 

But if the hadd is imposed on him, he will not be punished in the Hereafter for at least two reasons. a. According to the narrations, the divine Hudud are pure and purifyer, that is, they cleanse the sinner from the pollution of that sin. B. Basically, one who is just does not punish twice for a mistake, so Allah, who is absolute justice, does not punish twice for a sin. In the narrations, it is narrated from Imam Ali (عليه السلام) that Imam (عليه السلام) said: Allah is higher and more honorable than that punishs his servant twice.

Imam Sadegh (عليه السلام) said: "Allah Almighty revealed to Prophet Moses (AS): If the backbiter dies with repentance, he will be the last to enter Paradise, and if he dies in this state ( without repentance ), he will be the first to enter the Fire."

It has been narrated in many narrations that if a person does something, his reward is Paradise, or he is the first person to enter Paradise, but this is if this person has no other sin; On the other hand, the Qur'an says: "… Good deeds (good deeds and rewards) eliminate evil deeds (sins and their effects) ie " That is, the good deeds  of human beings in the first place compensate and forgive other sins, especially the rights of the people. And then it causes human progress and excellence. On the other hand, it is clear from the verses of the Qur'an that some sins cause the good deeds of human beings to be forgotten and destroyed; Like apostasy, blasphemy against the revelations of Allah and stubbornness  on them, enmity with the Messenger of Allah and shouting in the presence of the Messenger of Allah and some sins that transmit the goodness of its owner to others; Like sins such as murder, backbiting, slander,....  in any case, the good and bad deeds of human beings affect each other in different ways, and what is stated in the narrations of Imam Sadegh (عليه السلام), the above can be taken correctly.

https://www.mehrnews.com/news/2046499/توبه-بازگشت-خدا-به-سوی-بنده-با-نظر-لطف-طریقه-توبه-از-برخی

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3 hours ago, Guest Advice said:

Is this a Shia source ? 

I only quoted the part which sounds logical to me without going into Shia Sunni problematics:) 

Anyways you shouldn't consider only shia references...the more important thing is to read the content Shia or Sunni ...and if you look in the question of @El Cid...he doesn't mention any sect or want it to be answered by any specific fiqha:)

Edited by Ain-Al Hayat
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11 hours ago, THREE1THREE said:

because Sunni references are not authoritative on us and are unreliable.

Hmm interesting... that's another topic that I don't want to discuss in this thread...but my first post which I posted sounds to me logical and I don't see anything I would disagree with so it doesn't matter if it's Sunni or Shia reference...but if someone wants the Shia perspective her you go...if that's not enough I think or better to say I hope everyone has a tauzeeh ul masail of their Marja.

"Repenting from Sins Having Legal Punishments

In cases when a person's sin entails punishments, as soon as the person expresses repentance, his repentance is accepted. In such cases, after expression of repentance, there is no need to investigate if the person's repentance has been real or false and pretentious. Therefore, even if it is found that a person insists on doing a great sin, his expression of repentance is sufficient for canceling punishment about him.

In sexual crimes which entail fixed punishments, if the criminal repents before the judge before the witnesses attest in front of the judge, punishment will not be applied to him, but if he repents after testimony, the judge will be free to give punishment or forgive the person considering the interest of Muslims, but if the criminal does not repent, he should be punished."

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Repentance

More details to the topic:

https://www.al-islam.org/greater-sins-volume-3-ayatullah-sayyid-abdul-husayn-dastghaib-shirazi/tawba-part-one

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8 hours ago, Ain-Al Hayat said:

Hmm interesting... that's another topic that I don't want to discuss in this thread...but my first post which I posted sounds to me logical and I don't see anything I would disagree with so it doesn't matter if it's Sunni or Shia reference...but if someone wants the Shia perspective her you go...if that's not enough I think or better to say I hope everyone has a tauzeeh ul masail of their Marja.

"Repenting from Sins Having Legal Punishments

In cases when a person's sin entails punishments, as soon as the person expresses repentance, his repentance is accepted. In such cases, after expression of repentance, there is no need to investigate if the person's repentance has been real or false and pretentious. Therefore, even if it is found that a person insists on doing a great sin, his expression of repentance is sufficient for canceling punishment about him.

In sexual crimes which entail fixed punishments, if the criminal repents before the judge before the witnesses attest in front of the judge, punishment will not be applied to him, but if he repents after testimony, the judge will be free to give punishment or forgive the person considering the interest of Muslims, but if the criminal does not repent, he should be punished."

 

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Repentance

More details to the topic:

https://www.al-islam.org/greater-sins-volume-3-ayatullah-sayyid-abdul-husayn-dastghaib-shirazi/tawba-part-one

 

 

Thank you for your reply and thank you everyone else for your input as well. My confusion is very much clear now. Though as for the matter of Sunni and Shi'a resources, I'd suggest only using Shi'a resources as what may make sense to us or not doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is what our Shi'a resources say about any matter as we can be easily misguided if we use anything else especially in matters of law/juris because these things for Sunnis come from the hadith of Aisha/Abdullah Ibn Umar/Abu Hurairah(All considered unreliable by us) and the alterations done by people such as Abu Hanifa and party throughout history with some things not even being Islamic such as the divine right to rule given to Caliphs. So because of these reasons, It's highly ill-advised to use Sunni resources for any matter a Shi'a may have just like you won't use laws derived from the Talmud for your Shi'a inquiries.

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Salam Sharia punishment is not necesseray for forgivness in Shia Hadih , if someone repents from sin before  arresting or confesion of it in front of a judge but if he repents after public confesion of sin the punishment is necessary.

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