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In the Name of God بسم الله

How does one know the Imam of their time if he is in occultation?

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  • Veteran Member

:salam:

  • What does it mean to “know” the Imam of our time? Is it as superficial as thinking that one is a Shia (follower) of him?
  • It is said one who fails at this task will die the death of Jahiliyyah. So by this the Sunnis will perish (and most of humanity)?

Barakallahu Fik

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Thanks brother you have raised one very valid question. The simple answer comes in mind is a that we have not seen our prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم),  Ahl albayt a,s , First 11 imams, the companions, and similarly we have not seen the angles and further no one can see Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) (as per shia belief) yet  we believe in all of them.

The method we take for the knowledge and following the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Ahl albayt a,s) as we have not seen them is through the quran and hadiths. These are guidelines for us. These guidelines should be followed for the knowing  our Imam of time  Al Mahdi (عليه السلام).

The following links  are mentioned about the Marifaa / knowing of Imam of our time:

https://www.al-islam.org/last-luminary-and-ways-delve-light-sayyid-ridha-husayni-mutlaq/responsibility-1-marifat-imam-part-1

https://www.al-islam.org/last-luminary-and-ways-delve-light-sayyid-ridha-husayni-mutlaq/responsibility-2-marifat-imam-part-2

https://www.al-islam.org/last-luminary-and-ways-delve-light-sayyid-ridha-husayni-mutlaq/responsibility-3-marifat-imam-part-3

https://www.al-islam.org/last-luminary-and-ways-delve-light-sayyid-ridha-husayni-mutlaq/responsibility-4-marifat-imam-part-4

https://www.al-islam.org/media/knowing-imam-our-time-115-why-study-about-imam

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010
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Guest Psychological Warfare

First of all, The Imam of your time knows you.... https://bahjat.ir/en/content/2141

Imam Mahdi (aj) says,

"Surely, we do not neglect your condition nor are we forgetful of your remembrance. Had it not been so, then, terrible calamities would have struck you and your enemies would have destroyed you."2

https://www.al-islam.org/fazail-ul-mahdi-ali-akbar-talaafi/benefits-imam-mahdi-aj-during-his-ghaibat

-----

As a Layman, this gives me insight as to what I need to do / achieve Marfat - 

What will be said (View Ayatullah Bahjat video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaSpZ2NCr2k

http://www.duas.org/ziaratnahiya.htm

https://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/question/fa4547

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7 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

The method we take for the knowledge and following the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Ahl albayt a,s) as we have not seen them is through the quran and hadiths.

Thanks brother. What do we have to know about them and how much should we know so that we don’t die the death of jāhiliyyah?

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4 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

Thanks brother. What do we have to know about them and how much should we know so that we don’t die the death of jāhiliyyah?

Salam,

It is all depend on individual basis.  Some believe that 

1.  Just follow the jurisprudence, do the wajibat and associate with Aalims to know more Qur'an,  Hadith and history.  This is how to know Imam and hold on to them.

2.  Some believe they want more that just at state above.  They want to spend more time and effort and use intellectual approach by digging deeper into knowledge, philosophy, mantiq, tafsir, akhlaq....and understand all aspects of quran and hadiths through reasoning.  Majority will become scholar and use scholarly approach to hold on to Imams.  Most of us like to use scholarly approach because of our educational backgrounds.  We don't accept everything without sound reasoning.  We also follow the discourse and lectures by scholars, or read and research more.

3.  The last group of individuals want to be beyond #1 and #2 in knowing and holding to Imams.  They want to witness it.  Seeing is believing.  Therefore, they embark on spiritual approach and journey by holding on to Imam.  They embark on the ship (control by Imams) on spiritual voyage to return to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  These are Irfani people.  Usually, they will not tell to the public that they are on spiritual journey.  The Irfani people always tell the public to follow step in #1.

 

Let people make their choice according to their abilities and understanding, as long as they are sincere to hold on to Imam, InsyaAllah, may Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and Imam accept us and we don't die as a Jahilliyah.

 

Wallahualam...

 

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Guest Mohamad Ali

Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu 

My Brother what they answered you is the most important thing, that you have to follow the guidance but this is not the answer to your question of course you can know him through the guidance because Allah tells us about the signs of believers and when we look to what ahlulbayt peace be upon them said we can make us a picture of our imam peace be upon him but to follow the guidance you have to know them peace be upon them first and if you want to know your imam peace be upon him you have to know yourselve so that you know Allah and you have to know his ahlulbayt peace be upon them then you have to learn about your imam peace be upon him , his affairs,every drop of him peace be upon him everything what you are able to learn about him peace be upon him. He is your master and the master of the humans and jinns he is the most important to us more than anyone so be motivated to learn about him peace be upon him so that you know him peace be upon him better than anyone else inshAllah.

Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu 

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7 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

What do we have to know about them and how much should we know so that we don’t die the death of jāhiliyyah?

Salaam brother,

Can you or someone bring that tradition from the source as I am unable to find.

As far as I know, it talks about maarefat or recognition. And that would be the limit.

Here, are traditions on recognition of Imamate and prophethood which might clear up something:

Quote

 

At the same time, in that same “Kitāb al-Ĥujjah” of al-Kāfī it is narrated from Imām Ja`far Ibn Muhammad as-Ŝādiq (as):

“Whoever recognizes us is a believer, and whoever denies us is an unbeliever, and whoever neither recognizes nor denies us is misguided until he or she returns to the guidance of our obedience which God enjoined upon him or her. So if he or she dies in the state of misguidedness, God shall do what He pleases.”[88]
Muhammad Ibn Muslim says: “I was with Imām as-Ŝādiq (عليه السلام). I was seated to his left, and Zurārah to his right. Abū Baŝir entered and asked, “What do you say about a person who has doubts about God?” The Imam replied, “He is a unbeliever.” “What do you say about a person who has doubts about the Messenger of God?” “He is an unbeliever.” At this point the Imām turned towards Zurārah and said, “Verily, such a person is a unbeliever if he or she denies and shows obstinacy.”[89]

 

 

Quote

 

Also in al-Kāfī, Kulaynī narrates that Hāshim Ibn al-Barīd (Ŝāhib al-
Barīd) said: “Muhammad Ibn Muslim, Abul Khaťťāb, and I were together in
one place. Abul Khaťťāb asked, “What is your belief regarding one who doesn’t know the affair of Imāmate?” I said, “In my view he or she is a unbeliever.”
Abul Khaťťāb said, “As long as the evidence is not complete for him or her, he or she is not a unbeliever; if the evidence is complete and still he or she doesn’t recognize it, then he or she is a unbeliever.” Muhammad Ibn Muslim said, “Glory be to God! If he or she doesn’t recognize the Imām and doesn’t show obstinacy or denial, how can he or she be considered an unbeliever? No, one who doesn’t know, if he doesn’t show denial, is not an unbeliever.” Thus, the three of us had three opposing beliefs.
“When the Ĥajj season came, I went for Ĥajj and went to Imām as Ŝādiq (عليه السلام). I told him of the discussion between the three of us and asked the Imam his view. The Imām replied, “I will reply to this question when the other two are also present. I and the three of you shall meet tonight in Minā near the middle Jamarah.”
“That night, the three of us went there. The Imām, leaning on a cushion, began questioning us.”
“What do you say about the servants, womenfolk, and members of your own families? Do they not bear witness to the unity of God?”
I replied, “Yes.”
“Do they not bear witness to the prophecy of the Messenger?”
“Yes.”                                               “Do they recognize the Imāmate and wilāyah (Divinely-appointed authority) like yourselves?”

“No.”
“So what is their position in your view?”
“My view is that whoever does not recognize the Imām is an unbeliever.”
“Glory be to God! Haven’t you seen the people of the streets and markets?
Haven’t you seen the water-bearers?”
“Yes, I have seen and I see them.”
“Do they not pray? Do they not fast? Do they not perform Ĥajj? Do they
not bear witness to the unity of God and the prophethood of the Messenger?”
“Yes.”
“Well, do they recognize the Imām as you do?”
“No.”
“So what is their condition?”
“My view is that whoever doesn’t recognize the Imām is a unbeliever.”
“Glory be to God! Do you not see the state of the Ka’bah and the circumambulation of these people? Don’t you see how the people of Yemen cling to the curtains of the Ka’bah?”
“Yes.”
“Don’t they profess monotheism and believe in the Messenger? Don’t they pray, fast, and perform Ĥajj?”
“Yes.”
“Well, do they recognize the Imām as you do?”
“No.”
“What is your belief about them?”
“In my view, whoever doesn’t recognize the Imām is an unbeliever.”
“Glory be to God! This belief is the belief of the Khārijites.”
At that point the Imām said, “Now, do you wish me to inform you of the
truth?”
Hāshim, who in the words of the late Faydh al-Kāshānī , knew that the
Imām’s view was in opposition to his own belief, said, “No.”
The Imām said, “It is very bad for you to say something of your own accord that you have not heard from us.”
Hāshim later said to the others: “I presumed that the Imām affirmed the view of Muhammad Ibn Muslim and wished to bring us to his view.”

 

So, there is a difference between recognition and awareness.

As far as I know (and you might correct me if I am wrong), the hadith you are referring to is about the one who knows about Imam but doesn't recognize him and stays in a state of denial.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you

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1 hour ago, Zainuu said:

Salaam brother,

Can you or someone bring that tradition from the source as I am unable to find.

Alaikum Salaam

Quote

النبي الاعظم ص

مَنْ ماتَ وَ لَمْ يَعْرِفْ إمامَ زَمانِهِ مَاتَ مِيتَةً جَاهِلِيَّة

If a man dies while he does not know the Imam of his time,he will die a death of ignorance

Ibn Shahrashub, al-Manaqib, vol.1 p.246

Quote

The Prophet (s) said: "if a man dies without an Imam, he will die a death of ignorance"

Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Musnad Ahmad b. Hanbal, vol.28, p.88; 

Another hadith to contextualise:

Quote

Ibn Abi Ya'fur asked Imam al-Sadiq (a) about the Prophet's hadith according to which, "if a man dies while he does not know the Imam of his time, he will die a death of ignorance": is it the death as an unbeliever? He replied: "it is the death as a misguided person". He then asked: "if a man dies at this time without a leader, will he die a death of ignorance?" He replied: "Yes".

Al Kafi vol 1 page 376

Source https://en.wikishia.net/view/Hadith_Man_Mat

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@313_Waiter If we combine the above hadith that I mentioned and this hadith. Conclusion comes out that :

If a man dies without knowing his imam, he has died a death of ignorance. 'Death of ignorance' is death in state of misguidedness. 

While if he knows but denies then he dies as an unbeliever.

 

Rest Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows the best and his messenger (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) through him.

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Knowing the Imam is same as knowing the holy Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)), and this is possible only through the knowledge given by his blessed progeny. The blasphemous stuff from elsewhere (like Abu Huraira's) is surely going to seriously misguide a person and in the end they become ignorant like Salman Rushdie or other such authors.

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Guest Psychological Warfare

Saying the Verbal Creed,Reciting the Qur'an,  Daily Prayer, Fasting, Zakat, Hajj and doing "good" deeds Does not Guarantee anything. These are Outward deeds maybe for show or some gain .....or out of necessity/need/ obligation and fear of punishment. 

There were people in the time of Muhammad Al-Mustafa (peace be upon him and his pure progeny) , They may have done All the Outward Acts.....who did not have Marifat.

Same is true for the time of Imam Ali(عليه السلام) remember Saqifa, Fadaq, Battles and from the people on the side among them were Khawarij, Same is true for the Time of Imam Hassan(عليه السلام).

Imam Husayn(عليه السلام) left Medina, and Mecca for destination known to him there were companions and sons of companions present at that time.  Pious people in Medina, and Mecca during Hajj so there were very pious(doing all obligatory Acts and extra ..)  people who were present at Hajj. Were they pious? they considered themselves to be in their minds based on what they understood "religion" to be. Acts without recognition of an Imam(عليه السلام)  were useless just acts without any weight...

Look at Karbala and look at the companions and family and especially Abu al- Fadl al-Abbas(عليه السلام) to understand real Marifat. 

How does it apply today, if you can appreciate and understand this 

"By God!

Even if you sever my right arm,

I will persist in defending my faith,

And the Imam, who is the true one, for certain,

the Prophet's grandson, pure and trustworthy!16

That is, by God even if you cut my right arm I will not flinch from defending Husayn. Not much time passed when his rajaz changed again:

O my soul, fear not the faithless,

And receive the good news of Almighty's mercy,

In the company of the Prophet, the Master and the Elect,

Though, insolently, they should slash my left arm!17"

-----

You may be on your way ......

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On 1/17/2021 at 5:10 AM, 313_Waiter said:

Another hadith to contextualise:

Source:

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Hadith_Man_Mat

Salam. Thank you for ^ this link. 

Quote

Ibn Abi Ya'fur asked Imam al-Sadiq (a) about the Prophet's hadith according to which, "if a man dies while he does not know the Imam of his time, he will die a death of ignorance": is it the death as an unbeliever? He replied: "it is the death as a misguided person". He then asked: "if a man dies at this time without a leader, will he die a death of ignorance?" He replied: "Yes".[3]

Kulayni, al-Kafi vol.1, p.376.

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Guest Khan
On 1/17/2021 at 8:05 AM, Zainuu said:

@313_Waiter If we combine the above hadith that I mentioned and this hadith. Conclusion comes out that :

If a man dies without knowing his imam, he has died a death of ignorance. 'Death of ignorance' is death in state of misguidedness. 

While if he knows but denies then he dies as an unbeliever.

Well if you believe such things then why do you complain about Sunnis doing takfeer on you?

If this is your belief? calling other Muslim disbelievers because we know about imam Mahdi but don’t believe he is born yet and not an imam yet?

what nonsense is this? 

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8 hours ago, Guest Khan said:

Well if you believe such things then why do you complain about Sunnis doing takfeer on you?

If this is your belief? calling other Muslim disbelievers because we know about imam Mahdi but don’t believe he is born yet and not an imam yet?

what nonsense is this? 

I am not doing takfir of the Sunnis because I don't select the entire sect or any people and chant 'Kafir Kafir' for them on the streets.

I don't know who is what near Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Who thinks how because deen is in the fitrah. 

These are narrations from both shia and sunni books.

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9 hours ago, Hameedeh said:

"if a man dies at this time without a leader, will he die a death of ignorance?" He replied: "Yes".[3

Walaikum Salaam wrb,

Thanks for pointing this out, I didn’t even pay attention to it. What does it mean to not have a leader? Do you think this refers to Imam Khamenei? 

This seems to be crucial to understand because dying in a state of Jahiliyyah seems to have implications on our salvation. 

Edited by 313_Waiter
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12 hours ago, Guest Khan said:

If this is your belief? calling other Muslim disbelievers because we know about imam Mahdi but don’t believe he is born yet and not an imam yet?

what nonsense is this? 

Salaam brother,

First of all, it’s not within the tradition of our maraji (scholars) or even the masses to make takfir on people.

Secondly, if you read what the brother wrote there is no implication of takfir. If someone knows the truth and yet rejects out of obstinacy then they could be called a kafir. A similar principle could apply to non Muslims.

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Guest Psychological Warfare

A third hadith is from the Present Imam, Muhammad al-Mahdi, peace be upon him, who said in a reply to Ishaq ibn Ya'qub:

"As far as newly occurring circumstances are concerned, you should turn (for guidance) to the narrators of our ahadith, for they are my proof over you just as I am Allah's proof."6

For the Imami Shia Our Holy Imam of the time is Imam Mahdi(عليه السلام).

We do have Jurists in fiqh and leaders of communities/state/country who are called leaders. Najaf/Qum these Jurists and any one who is the most learned a Marja-e-Taqlid is the leader of Fiqh for the people who follow him around the world.

For the locally selected leaders by a body of experts within the confines of the constitution of a particular country. These may also be Marja-e-Taqlid and followed by anyone in the world as far as leadership for the Entire Shia world.

This is very complicated issue we don't have leaders like Saudi representing a sect  leadership for all muslims in the world..followers because of the size of the country/wealth/army/social work etc...these are not qualifiers for Islamic leadership. 

But For the followers of the Four Jurists and the Zaidi /Zaidyiah they refer to their Political and Jurists  leaders as imams. 

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