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Can People of Book go to heaven when they die?

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Guest Samuel Kane

Can People of Book (Jews and Christians) go to heaven when they die? What is the traditional Shi'a view?

I have been told the traditional Sunni view is that all people of the Book go to hell when they die, as punishment for their failure to convert to Islam.

Do Shi'a agree with that? (I especially am interested in what the traditional view is, not what some modern liberal Shi'a would say.)

If a Jew or Christian tries their hardest to do good deeds and avoid evil, and to love and worship and pray to God, and they have heard of Islam (they probably don't know a lot about it, but they've heard some of the basics), but they are never convinced that Islam is true, and then they die – is there any chance of going to heaven for them? Or is eternal damnation a certainty?

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On 1/14/2021 at 11:30 PM, Guest Samuel Kane said:

Can People of Book (Jews and Christians) go to heaven when they die? What is the traditional Shi'a view?

I have been told the traditional Sunni view is that all people of the Book go to hell when they die, as punishment for their failure to convert to Islam.

Do Shi'a agree with that? (I especially am interested in what the traditional view is, not what some modern liberal Shi'a would say.)

If a Jew or Christian tries their hardest to do good deeds and avoid evil, and to love and worship and pray to God, and they have heard of Islam (they probably don't know a lot about it, but they've heard some of the basics), but they are never convinced that Islam is true, and then they die – is there any chance of going to heaven for them? Or is eternal damnation a certainty?

There is a verse of the Quran that says christians and Jews will enter heaven so i think that settles that

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In the Injeel, John 3:16&17 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life.  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."  I would think that God provided a way for mankind all over this world according to the Injeel, because he loves us.  He is the one who created us. 

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On 1/15/2021 at 12:59 AM, THREE1THREE said:

No, but there is a criteria to be met. 1. Is to believe in the absolute oneness of God (I.e Unitarianism); so no trinity or literal son of God, modalism, separationism, adoptionist trithism or God having a body living somewhere in the heavens or incarnation these are heresies and are not monotheism. 2. Fulfil the law code and do good 3. Believe in the day of judgement 4. Genuinely coming to the conclusion that whatever faith you subscribe to, to be the truth. 5. Not being arrogant towards the truth when you have recognised it. 
 

most Jews and Christians don’t meet this criteria.... so u be the judge. 

So hundreds of millions of "people of the book" who since millennia before Mohammed's ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) final prophethood who obeyed the laws and tried to do good, believed in a day of judgment, were genuine in their belief that their faith was correct but were unable to recognize "the truth" because they were lead astray by the incorrect doctrines of the non-Islamic religions they were born and raised under and knew no better are right now burning in the eternal fires of hell?

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On 2/15/2021 at 3:18 AM, Guest Rational said:

So hundreds of millions of "people of the book" who since millennia before Mohammed's ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) final prophethood who obeyed the laws and tried to do good, believed in a day of judgment, were genuine in their belief that their faith was correct but were unable to recognize "the truth" because they were lead astray by the incorrect doctrines of the non-Islamic religions they were born and raised under and knew no better are right now burning in the eternal fires of hell?

Salam/Hi undoublty they  don't be in eteral fire or hell wich their good deeds are preserverd besides Allah & They will receive their reward & punishment in total justice because as you said in your post as Inculpable ignorants  which is extendible  to some conditions  have been kept in ignorace until now but people of book who have rejected intentinally prophet Muhammad  (pbu) & Islam after finding out truth as Culpable ignorants will face punishment  but there have not been a force for conversion until reappeance of Imam Mahdi (aj) which after his reappearance  they must choose between convertsion or death .

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Inculpable ignorant or al-jāhil al-qāṣir (Arabic: الجاهِل القاصِر) is a Muslim who is incapable of knowing or having access to jurisprudential obligations and rulings. Shiite jurists maintain that an inculpable ignorant will not be punished by God in the afterlife. Also, his worships count as valid if they match the fatwas of his marja' (jurisprudential authority) or match the fact of the matter. Some theologians believe that the ruling of an inculpable ignorant extends to some followers of other religions who are incapable of knowing the true religion, and so they will not be punished in the afterlife.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Inculpable_Ignorant

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Culpable_Ignorant

Edited by Hameedeh
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On 1/14/2021 at 2:59 PM, THREE1THREE said:

No, but there are criteria to be met. ...most Jews and Christians don’t meet the criteria...so you be the judge. 

For example, most Christians since the time of Constantine were forcibly converted to Trinitarianism and anti-Judaism, based on Saul’s Masonic doctrine(s). Contrary to the words of Prophet Jesus in, among other places, Matthew 23:2–3, the Trinitarian Church(-es)—in particular, the Latinate (Roman Catholic) Church and her offshoots, including all the Protestant sects—forcibly prevented Jewish Christians from adhering to the 613 mitzvot, dietary prescriptions, ritual ablution and prayer, circumcision, and so on, all of which Prophet Jesus upheld, given that he only criticised the Pharisees’ insincere “devotion” to the Mosaic Law (that is, they were not strict enough, being hypocrites), rather than the Mosaic Law itself. Even today various Trinitarian sources such as this one continue to portray Pharisaic and/or Talmudic Judaism as evil, even though Prophet Jesus himself, as a Muslim, was the staunchest Talmudic Pharisee of all, orthodox Islam having absorbed most, though not all, practices of Pharisaic Judaism, especially in manners of diet, though with certain modifications in terms of qibla’, dress, and so on. In the Book of Acts, heavily edited by the Pauline Trinitarians, the Pharisee Gamaliel is depicted as being sympathetic toward the staunchly Jewish followers of Prophet Jesus, those messianic sectarians of “the Way,” among whom were Simon Peter and James the Just. At that time even many pagans were actively being proselytised by “the Way,” in turn adopting the practices and beliefs of this movement, as the Book of Acts indicates in many places. The Trinitarians’ hatred toward Orthodox, that is, Pharisaic/Talmudic, Judaism, as well as its being reflected in certain fundamentals of orthodox Islam, is reflected in its antinomian stance toward any and all religious practice that distinguishes the believer from the masses:

Quote

These man-made versions have tremendous amounts of added and twisted man-made rules, regulations, customs, traditions, dress codes, food restrictions (Kosher Food), etc., and the various punishments for violating these “laws”...Judaism is a man-made prison of a strict lifestyle (such as with all cults); which is not the same as obeying the Scriptural “Torah” (!)...Judaizers are those who “live as the Jews,” and who influence non- Jews to live as the Jews, following the teachings of Halakha, wearing what they wear (tallit, tzitzi, and kippah, i.e. prayer shawls and skull caps, etc.), talking like they talk with Hebrew jargon and terminologies, calling YAHUAH ELOHIYM, “HaShem,” meaning “the name,” spelling “God” with a dash in the middle (“G-d”), praying the prescribed prayers at the prescribed time, keeping the Sabbath and the Feasts religiously, eating the Kosher Food, and even getting circumcised. ... True followers ... are not to come under the yoke and burden of Judaism but under...our Master (Saul, that is, not Prophet Jesus – ed.)...

Furthermore, not only did the Church, by “divine decree/mandate,” arrogate unto herself the right to excommunicate and send Jewish Christians to execution, but also to aver that following the practices of Prophet Jesus and his followers, including their lack of belief in “original sin,” constituted either heresy or apostasy and hence sin. As a sin the Church considered either of these to pose a graver danger than forgery or even mass murder did, given that the heretic or apostate endangered his soul and those of others: that is, being a believing forger or murderer was considered better than being a heretic or apostate, somewhat analogously to the idea implicitly expressed in Surah 5:82, in which Christians are judged more favourably in relation to Islam than either Jews or pagans, despite the fact that most Christians, being Trinitarians (including those Trinitarian Copts of Ethiopia, the Tewahedo, who sheltered the Prophet Muhammad and his followers), are farther in practice from Islam than Jews and even many pagans, in light of the fact that many pagans have throughout history also fasted, circumcised, abstained from eating pork or shellfish, etc., i.e., Vedic Hindus, some African polytheists, or pre-Abrahamic Anatolian peasants; so should pork-eating, whisky-guzzling Trinitarian Christians who “believe in Jesus” but negate the content of his message, including Torah observance, be considered better believers than a Jew or polytheist who, for one reason or another, actually upholds many, if not all, tenets of the Torah and Islam, for instance, in matters of diet, hygiene, fasting, and/or circumcision? Similarly to heresy or apostasy in Judaism and Islam, the offence was deemed worthy of capital punishment, in this case at the hands of secular authority. Obviously, given that religious communities remained insular relative to one another until the rise of globalisation in the twentieth century, one could not realistically expect a Catholic Trinitarian, for instance, to switch his allegiance over to, say, Shia Islam.

Quote

Catholics of that time period believed that heresy is to the soul what murder is to the body. (Even the 1983 Code of Canon Law at least pays "lip service" to this belief, in that heresy, unlike murder or even mass murder, is an excommunicable offense.) Saint Thomas was quite clear on this point:

“...it is a much graver matter to corrupt the faith which quickens the soul, than to forge money, which supports temporal life. Wherefore if forgers of money and other evil-doers are forthwith condemned to death by the secular authority, much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death.”

Source (see also this source)

So even the worst sinner among believers is considered a recipient of greater reward than, say, an unbeliever who nonetheless adheres to many of the practices that govern a believer, i.e., circumcision, fasting, (some or all of the) dietary prescriptions, and so on? Also, how does one differentiate between a culpable and an inculpable ignorant, given that up until the twentieth century most religious adherents were bound to their respective sect(s) on pain of excommunication and death, and moreover were deprived of access to alternative viewpoints and sources that could have led them to adopt another religion or Deen? To what degree can, say, a mediaeval Catholic Trinitarian be blamed for not seeking out “the Truth,” given that he not only would not have had the information to act upon, but also would have been subject to execution for doing so, just as “heretical” or “apostate” Jews, Muslims, Vedic Hindus, et al. would have also faced the possibility of death at the discretion of their respective sects’ ecclesiastical authorities? After all, “freedom of religion” is a totally modern, secularist concept that did not exist in reality until the twentieth century and still does not in much of the world, at least on paper, so to speak. Therefore, are people who were born to non-Muslims considered to have rejected Allah and/or His Representative in the World of Particles and thus destined to Hell from birth, given that the notion of “choosing one’s religion,” as opposed to being “born” into it, is a product of the Industrial Revolution and the secularist “Enlightenment,” and has not been true for the vast majority of human history, even unto the present?

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On 2/21/2021 at 12:02 PM, Northwest said:

For example, most Christians since the time of Constantine were forcibly converted to Trinitarianism and anti-Judaism, based on Saul’s Masonic doctrine(s). Contrary to the words of Prophet Jesus in, among other places, Matthew 23:2–3, the Trinitarian Church(-es)—in particular, the Latinate (Roman Catholic) Church and her offshoots, including all the Protestant sects—forcibly prevented Jewish Christians from adhering to the 613 mitzvot, dietary prescriptions, ritual ablution and prayer, circumcision, and so on, all of which Prophet Jesus upheld, given that he only criticised the Pharisees’ insincere “devotion” to the Mosaic Law (that is, they were not strict enough, being hypocrites), rather than the Mosaic Law itself. Even today various Trinitarian sources such as this one continue to portray Pharisaic and/or Talmudic Judaism as evil, even though Prophet Jesus himself, as a Muslim, was the staunchest Talmudic Pharisee of all, orthodox Islam having absorbed most, though not all, practices of Pharisaic Judaism, especially in manners of diet, though with certain modifications in terms of qibla’, dress, and so on. In the Book of Acts, heavily edited by the Pauline Trinitarians, the Pharisee Gamaliel is depicted as being sympathetic toward the staunchly Jewish followers of Prophet Jesus, those messianic sectarians of “the Way,” among whom were Simon Peter and James the Just. At that time even many pagans were actively being proselytised by “the Way,” in turn adopting the practices and beliefs of this movement, as the Book of Acts indicates in many places. The Trinitarians’ hatred toward Orthodox, that is, Pharisaic/Talmudic, Judaism, as well as its being reflected in certain fundamentals of orthodox Islam, is reflected in its antinomian stance toward any and all religious practice that distinguishes the believer from the masses:

Furthermore, not only did the Church, by “divine decree/mandate,” arrogate unto herself the right to excommunicate and send Jewish Christians to execution, but also to aver that following the practices of Prophet Jesus and his followers, including their lack of belief in “original sin,” constituted either heresy or apostasy and hence sin. As a sin the Church considered either of these to pose a graver danger than forgery or even mass murder did, given that the heretic or apostate endangered his soul and those of others: that is, being a believing forger or murderer was considered better than being a heretic or apostate, somewhat analogously to the idea implicitly expressed in Surah 5:82, in which Christians are judged more favourably in relation to Islam than either Jews or pagans, despite the fact that most Christians, being Trinitarians (including those Trinitarian Copts of Ethiopia, the Tewahedo, who sheltered the Prophet Muhammad and his followers), are farther in practice from Islam than Jews and even many pagans, in light of the fact that many pagans have throughout history also fasted, circumcised, abstained from eating pork or shellfish, etc., i.e., Vedic Hindus, some African polytheists, or pre-Abrahamic Anatolian peasants; so should pork-eating, whisky-guzzling Trinitarian Christians who “believe in Jesus” but negate the content of his message, including Torah observance, be considered better believers than a Jew or polytheist who, for one reason or another, actually upholds many, if not all, tenets of the Torah and Islam, for instance, in matters of diet, hygiene, fasting, and/or circumcision? Similarly to heresy or apostasy in Judaism and Islam, the offence was deemed worthy of capital punishment, in this case at the hands of secular authority. Obviously, given that religious communities remained insular relative to one another until the rise of globalisation in the twentieth century, one could not realistically expect a Catholic Trinitarian, for instance, to switch his allegiance over to, say, Shia Islam.

Source (see also this source)

So even the worst sinner among believers is considered a recipient of greater reward than, say, an unbeliever who nonetheless adheres to many of the practices that govern a believer, i.e., circumcision, fasting, (some or all of the) dietary prescriptions, and so on? Also, how does one differentiate between a culpable and an inculpable ignorant, given that up until the twentieth century most religious adherents were bound to their respective sect(s) on pain of excommunication and death, and moreover were deprived of access to alternative viewpoints and sources that could have led them to adopt another religion or Deen? To what degree can, say, a mediaeval Catholic Trinitarian be blamed for not seeking out “the Truth,” given that he not only would not have had the information to act upon, but also would have been subject to execution for doing so, just as “heretical” or “apostate” Jews, Muslims, Vedic Hindus, et al. would have also faced the possibility of death at the discretion of their respective sects’ ecclesiastical authorities? After all, “freedom of religion” is a totally modern, secularist concept that did not exist in reality until the twentieth century and still does not in much of the world, at least on paper, so to speak. Therefore, are people who were born to non-Muslims considered to have rejected Allah and/or His Representative in the World of Particles and thus destined to Hell from birth, given that the notion of “choosing one’s religion,” as opposed to being “born” into it, is a product of the Industrial Revolution and the secularist “Enlightenment,” and has not been true for the vast majority of human history, even unto the present?

You are way over my head in your analytical concepts; however, I would like to respond to a couple of things you said.  "freedom of religion".  Yes, we all seem to be born into a certain culture and lots of times, some form of religion, but that does not mean that we know God and that does not save our soul from hell.  To know God is to have a knowledge and understanding of Him, and that can only come from the heart of man and not head knowledge.  Jesus said in the Injeel in the book of John 3 when he was talking to Nicodemus said to him in verse 3, "...except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."  To have this knowledge is found by the Word of God, and this knowledge will be in our hearts, for God searches the heart of man.  God, our creator, created us to love Him as He loves us and to love others.  He desires a personal relationship with us.  He does not force our love upon himself, and no man should force a religious belief upon others (as clearly has been done in the past by many so-called religious people, which is unfortunate and it was not of God, although many wrong things were done in His name.  

Did you know that there are many who claim Christianity because they were born in a country founded upon Christian principles, but they are not true followers of Christ?  A true follower of Christ would love and obey the commands of Christ, but so many people speak one thing and do another contrary to His teachings.  This is why He called them hypocrites in his day, and they are still hypocrites today.  A true worshipper of God is one who worships in spirit and in truth according to John 4:23 in the Injeel.      

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On 2/14/2021 at 6:40 PM, Andrew Israel said:

I hope for my family’s sake your right!

Andrew, i know how you feel, i think you are revert.. My mom her family are also non shia or even non muslims bu are rather orthodox and to be honest Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the most righteous. We pften dont understand history why lots changed into people not trusting muslims etc 

but in my honest opinion these orthodox show better behaviour than most muslims these days.. soo neger underestimate the power of Allah

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On 1/14/2021 at 1:30 PM, Guest Samuel Kane said:

Can People of Book (Jews and Christians) go to heaven when they die? What is the traditional Shi'a view?

I have been told the traditional Sunni view is that all people of the Book go to hell when they die, as punishment for their failure to convert to Islam.

Do Shi'a agree with that? (I especially am interested in what the traditional view is, not what some modern liberal Shi'a would say.)

If a Jew or Christian tries their hardest to do good deeds and avoid evil, and to love and worship and pray to God, and they have heard of Islam (they probably don't know a lot about it, but they've heard some of the basics), but they are never convinced that Islam is true, and then they die – is there any chance of going to heaven for them? Or is eternal damnation a certainty?

Yes they can.. i myself am A mix of it.

Its long story if you want to get it mire detailed you can send me..

we shias arent like sunnis we are complete opposite, we rateher belief that if you follow the killers of ahlalbayt are the most bad people on this world..basically sunnism is based on following their killers and the sunna of those killers, thats why you see all terrorist organisations made by them .

shia islam is much different. 

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Guest Qalbizahra

Salam

General aqaidah on the matter is no non ithna ashari Shia can go to jannah in of the self.

However since no one goes to heaven when we die but rather barazkh the belif is that they would be brought back from the dead if they were ahl shakk people of doubt or people hujjat had not been completed on during rajat and taugt and offered the din by imam Mahdi as. Another veiw is they would be tested with a command and a trial at qiyyammah to see if they would have obeyed had truth reached them, this is the veiw of Majalisi.

Muttahari held the veiw that they could repent and accept din in barazakh thou it's a minority do to undrstanding of Hadith on barazkh by most ulama

Idea of them entering jannah by shifa or by deeds is very rare

Fiamanallah

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They can , but the ones who Believe that Allah is one and has no partners nor any son . Take for instance the sincere people who used to believe in the Creed of Abraham ( Millat -E-Ibrahim) . They should go to heaven since they were monotheistic and believed in the Prophethood of Hazrat Ibrahim (عليه السلام) .

In the Qur'an Allah does not refer to the Modern Day Christian's & Jews but rather the ones before . 

" The Jews say , Ezra is the Son of God ; The Christians say the Messiah is the Son of God . That is the utterance of their mouths confirming with the unbelievers before them . God assail them ! How they are perverted ! "

- Qur'an Surah Tawbah 9:30 

Clearly according to the Qur'an the Jews and Christian's are Unbelievers . 

And the ones who deny the prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (SAWA) have indeed denied Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and this leads to the Blazing Fire . 

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40 minutes ago, AbalFadhl said:

Clearly according to the Qur'an the Jews and Christian's are Unbelievers . 

The Jews who don’t believe in the last day are will not be in paradise since the DONT meet the criteria that the Quran has clearly set and for the “Christians” none of them will he seeing heaven except the true Unitarian ones who follow the closest teachings of prophet Isa ((عليه السلام)) 

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On 3/4/2021 at 7:03 AM, THREE1THREE said:

The Jews who don’t believe in the last day are will not be in paradise since the DONT meet the criteria that the Quran has clearly set and for the “Christians” none of them will he seeing heaven except the true Unitarian ones who follow the closest teachings of prophet Isa ((عليه السلام)) 

You have a very good point about Christians.  There are many who were born into a Christian family, but do not follow Jesus Christ.  A true follower of Jesus will obey his commands.  A lot of people believe in Jesus, but yet do not love and follow him.  It is a very sad deception, for the book says that even the devil believes and trembles.  Apart from the mercy and grace of God, this will be to their demise.  Jesus said in the book of John 3:3 of the Injeel, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.  Born again is turning from our old path of sin and following a path of righteousness that can only come through Jesus.  Jesus said in the book of John 14:6 of the Injeel, "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me."  

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4 hours ago, Marcy said:

You have a very good point about Christians.  There are many who were born into a Christian family, but do not follow Jesus Christ.  A true follower of Jesus will obey his commands.  A lot of people believe in Jesus, but yet do not love and follow him.  It is a very sad deception, for the book says that even the devil believes and trembles.  Apart from the mercy and grace of God, this will be to their demise.  Jesus said in the book of John 3:3 of the Injeel, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.  Born again is turning from our old path of sin and following a path of righteousness that can only come through Jesus.  Jesus said in the book of John 14:6 of the Injeel, "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me." 

Do you think it makes any sense for a Person who is not christian but is more closer to the teachig of Jesus than christian dosent deserve the Paradise.

If people claim that only trought Jesus alone will get salvation, then they truly does not represent Jesus teaching, but rather they are sect who thinks only throught belonging to their sect there is salvation.

Anyone who have faith on God and follow the goodness by their own capacity of understaning of the truth will see the paradise, even if the person is jew or christian.

The Jews and Christians each claim that none will enter Paradise except those of their own faith. These are their desires. Reply, ˹O Prophet,˺ “Show ˹me˺ your proof if what you say is true.” 2:111

But no! Whoever submits themselves to Allah and does good will have their reward with their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve. 2:112

Edited by Abu Nur
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On 3/30/2021 at 2:10 PM, Abu Nur said:

Do you think it makes any sense for a Person who is not christian but is more closer to the teachig of Jesus than christian dosent deserve the Paradise.

If people claim that only trought Jesus alone will get salvation, then they truly does not represent Jesus teaching, but rather they are sect who thinks only throught belonging to their sect there is salvation.

Anyone who have faith on God and follow the goodness by their own capacity of understaning of the truth will see the paradise, even if the person is jew or christian.

The Jews and Christians each claim that none will enter Paradise except those of their own faith. These are their desires. Reply, ˹O Prophet,˺ “Show ˹me˺ your proof if what you say is true.” 2:111

But no! Whoever submits themselves to Allah and does good will have their reward with their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve. 2:112

Maybe I have been misunderstood.  I believe in the infallible, inspired Word of God and His teachings.  I do not begin to judge others apart from the Word of God which I quoted above.  My point above, was to say there are many who claim to be Christians, but do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.  They choose to believe what their own heart tells them rather than what God says and be obedient to that Word.  In the Book, Jeremiah 17:9 says "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"  This is why it is so important to desire the true word of God and live by His Word and not what we think he is saying.  To be a true Christian, is to be a true follower of Christ and not take away or add to what he has taught to fit our own needs.

In the Injeel, Ephesians 2:8-10 says "For by grace are you saved through faith; and not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boastl  For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has ordained that we should walk in them."  Because of our faith, we do good works.  Living under grace does not give one a right to sin.  God forbid.

In the Injeel, Ephesians 4:4-6 say, "There is...one Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." Man has brought in religion, and I believe that religion that has been brought about by man (even Christianity as it has been portrayed today in many people that are deceived) will be their deception to prevent them from entering into God's Kingdom.  God desires a personal relationship with us and desires our love and obedience.  He desires our worship and praise.  My desire is to do those very things pleasing to God and I trust in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross to get me to heaven.  I believe in the Holy Spirit of God to be my guide and my teacher in all things pertaining to the righteousness of God.

In the Zabur, Psalms 3:5&6 say, "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not upon your own understanding; acknowledge Him in all your ways and He shall direct your paths."          

            

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In the Injeel, Ephesians 2:8-10 says "For by grace are you saved through faith; and not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boastl  For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has ordained that we should walk in them."  Because of our faith, we do good works.  Living under grace does not give one a right to sin.  God forbid.

Ephesians is not included in Injeel. But it seems that you are referring to non-practical Christians.

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On 3/31/2021 at 4:08 PM, Abu Nur said:

Ephesians is not included in Injeel. But it seems that you are referring to non-practical Christians.

Please educate me as to what you consider the Injeel.  My understanding is that you consider the Injeel to be the New Testament, of which is what I quoted from.  What is your definition of being non-practical?  My questions are sincere in wanting to have an understanding of your words.

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2 hours ago, Marcy said:

Please educate me as to what you consider the Injeel.  My understanding is that you consider the Injeel to be the New Testament, of which is what I quoted from.  What is your definition of being non-practical?  My questions are sincere in wanting to have an understanding of your words.

Injeel is the pure revelation that was revealed to Jesus (عليه السلام). The gospels We have are from different accounts who wrote about Jesus life and his teachings. Among these gospels there are Laws and words of God that we don’t deny and We trust the 12 disciples who witnessed the injeel of Jesus while living with Jesus. No where we claim that the whole New Testament we have is the exact Injeel.

As for non-practical, I meant as what you said:

My point above, was to say there are many who claim to be Christians, but do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ

Anyway I think I went off track, I apologize.

Edited by Abu Nur
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Hello All

God is just. If someone realizes the truth of Islam but denies it, then yes, he lands in hell. However, if someone cannot realize the truth of Islam due to his life circumstances or mental ability or the way Islam is presented to him/her, then the judgment stays with God...This person doesn’t necessarily land in hell fire.

Ya Allah

K

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On 2/14/2021 at 10:40 AM, Andrew Israel said:

I hope for my family’s sake your right!

As a teen my family spent many Sundays away from our home church, sometimes in the next province, I don't remember how many invited us as a musical family but we spent most of two years doing it. I'm a people watcher. I see who's listening, who's bored, who's been dragged there, and by who. Different songs, different sermons. Usually  between morning and evening services we'd lunch with the pastor, or an elder, or a member. I know the Christian doctrines well and most of the denominations but I always found it of interest that every pastor, elder, or member would always seem to bring up that one extra tidbit of knowledge that made them that much closer to Heaven than any other "church", let alone denomination. The irony is that the tidbit is the point of their division. That's why a "Fellowship" Baptist church can't actually have fellowship with any other Baptist church in a major Canadian city, it's amazing.

That is a tremendously small example of how divisions make rules but it's not exclusive to Christianity.
The first division in Christianity was when the Gentiles were becoming Christians and the Jewish Christians expected the Gentiles to become Jews before they could become Christians. Now a Gentile that becomes a Christian still has to become a Jew before he can become a Muslim.

Muslims don't have to follow the Jewish law but expect Christians to. Jews are the chosen people so they don't care what Christians or Muslims do. Everybody has rules and laws and opinions of rules and laws and it's hard to decipher God's laws from the man made god laws that come together to make any religion.
It really boils down to one thing, none of us have it 100% right. Religions are a distraction. 
If you earnestly seek God with a pure heart you will find Him. You will also feel a responsibility to God. This becomes you and God if you're willing. We can find God's wisdom in the smallest things. It's a relationship we seek. Psalm 46: "Be still, and know that I am God."

God doesn't care what religion you're in, as long as you sincerely seek Him. Proverbs 3: 5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil. It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones. Doesn't mention religion, belief, trust, and faith.

 

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On 1/14/2021 at 6:30 AM, Guest Samuel Kane said:

I have been told the traditional Sunni view is that all people of the Book go to hell when they die, as punishment for their failure to convert to Islam.

That’s correct according to Quran 48:13

And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, then We surely have prepared for the disbelievers a blazing Fire.

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On 1/14/2021 at 6:00 PM, Guest Samuel Kane said:

Do Shi'a agree with that? (I especially am interested in what the traditional view is, not what some modern liberal Shi'a would say.)

If a Jew or Christian tries their hardest to do good deeds and avoid evil, and to love and worship and pray to God, and they have heard of Islam (they probably don't know a lot about it, but they've heard some of the basics), but they are never convinced that Islam is true, and then they die – is there any chance of going to heaven for them? Or is eternal damnation a certainty?

They will go to heaven then for sure. But that doesn't mean that they should stop struggling to seek the truth. 

My point is that they will reach heaven if they are righteous to themselves. On the day of judgement, they will be asked about there own deeds and that would be the argument against them. If they pass it, no problem. 

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This short article was written by a friend of mine. He is more so mutazili and zaidi. His articles and views are quite interesting:

https://principiisquinque.wordpress.com/2020/05/10/will-blind-followers-of-other-religions-go-to-hell/

 

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On 5/8/2021 at 10:42 AM, Arminmo said:

That’s correct according to Quran 48:13

And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, then We surely have prepared for the disbelievers a blazing Fire.

And Allah's is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth. He forgiveth whom He will, and punisheth whom He will. And Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

I'm thinking Muslims are much like Christians in the sense they also believe those of other sects of their own religion will go to hell for not having found the one true sect. That, of course depends on which sect is judging.

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14 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

He forgiveth whom He will

Whom he will , would be among Muslims , not other invalidated religions, otherwise it would contradict 48:13

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There is a Hadith where even Jesus will intervene for the christians on judgement day and ask God that they be allowed into heaven on his behalf so even if christians don’t become muslims formally they can still enter paradise also the Jews too, Allah is most merciful 

Edited by theEndIsNear
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On 5/15/2021 at 11:01 AM, theEndIsNear said:

There is a Hadith where even Jesus will intervene for the christians on judgement day and ask God that they be allowed into heaven on his behalf so even if christians don’t become muslims formally they can still enter paradise also the Jews too, Allah is most merciful 

125K Prophets but everybody has to follow Muhammad? Hang on, only a sect of a sect of Islam has the real truth and goes to heaven, the rest...

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