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In the Name of God بسم الله

Ex-Muslims, what made you lose faith?

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Allahoma thabitna 3la al deen.

Ya Allah keep us steadfast.  

Ya Allah remove the spiritual ills from our hearts and keep us on the straight path. 

Please gift me the spiritual virtues of patience, akhlaq, and taqwa.

Ya Allah, keep the wlad al haram away from me and allow me to meet your servants to befriend them to make me closer to you, berahmataka ya arham al rahmeen.

Astgfor'Allah rabi wa atoob elayk.

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To be fair did they even have faith to begin with, I feel like it just people born as muslims who didn’t really look into it and parents forced it upon them hence they were repulsed by it 

In my life my belief in God has only grown stronger. I use to be agnostic, but the more I look around the more evident becomes Gods existence. I have difficult seeing my self as an Atheist one day. Bu

il tell you what gives me faith enough faith that would fill any cup the thought that soon or somewhere in the near or distant future i am going to die, and there will be nobody there to hel

Guest Guest Munafiq?

For me it was depression along my very high career expectations. When your growing up you think you are on the right path so of course god will make you successful.  You do everything right, don't eat harm through school, don't drink alcohol, don't have premarital relationships in high school or college and even with all that you fail at your career goals. Obviously it was my fault I failed at my goals, I didn't blame Islam. But I didn't see the need to follow it if it wasn't going to help me succeed in this world.  With depression there is a low point you hit and once you hit that low point you don't care about anything. Life becomes meaningless.  

I stopped caring about haram food, I ate haram food with my boss so I wouldn't seem out of place. I stopped caring about Shi'ism being the right path. Life became very meaningless and I was motivated on reaching my career goals.  During this time the whole ISIS thing was happening and I started looking into Islamic laws on slavery. I think the ethics of sex captives of non-Muslim women was the biggest issue for me. What you right hand possess is in the Quran, shared by both Sunni and Shias. Anyways long story short I would say I'm agnostic-shia not atheist. I find it hard to believe that God actually intervenes in the affairs of man. It is a pretty cruel world. I actually have a good life, but the 3rd world is a horrid place. The Muslim countries that pray and belief are actually the worst place to live in. The poverty and lack of basic necessities is sickening. 

I think people need to check their expectations, don't force high carrier expectations on people that can't achieve it. It kills them. I actually ended up achieving what I had set out to do.  But the hit I took from my failure really made me lose all faith. I still haven't completely recovered  from it. Whenever I go home I try to visit my local community/mosques, I like the intellectual elements of theology, philosophy and idea of community building. I avoid desi Shia communities b/c how traditional they are(i.e food is their top priority) and how little focus they have on community development. I guess I would be considered a munafiq, I doubt God inwardly but would never say it openly. 

If it weren't for the intellectual output of the community I would consider myself an apostate. However short works of Baqir Sadr and others that tackle modern issues have helped.  I recently read a self published book by Syed Jafri called "God and god of science", I really liked it b/c he discusses modern idea of evolution ect. It reads like "The Shia Creed" by Suduq but instead of the topics being discussed in 1000AD it discusses things in 2020AD. The book has it's draw backs, he sometimes is ugly/insulting towards the atheist view, but overall it is a great theological book written by a laymen giving his reason for belief.  

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5 hours ago, Guest Guest Munafiq? said:

For me it was depression along my very high career expectations. When your growing up you think you are on the right path so of course god will make you successful.  You do everything right, don't eat harm through school, don't drink alcohol, don't have premarital relationships in high school or college and even with all that you fail at your career goals. Obviously it was my fault I failed at my goals, I didn't blame Islam. But I didn't see the need to follow it if it wasn't going to help me succeed in this world.  With depression there is a low point you hit and once you hit that low point you don't care about anything. Life becomes meaningless.  

I stopped caring about haram food, I ate haram food with my boss so I wouldn't seem out of place. I stopped caring about Shi'ism being the right path. Life became very meaningless and I was motivated on reaching my career goals.  During this time the whole ISIS thing was happening and I started looking into Islamic laws on slavery. I think the ethics of sex captives of non-Muslim women was the biggest issue for me. What you right hand possess is in the Quran, shared by both Sunni and Shias. Anyways long story short I would say I'm agnostic-shia not atheist. I find it hard to believe that God actually intervenes in the affairs of man. It is a pretty cruel world. I actually have a good life, but the 3rd world is a horrid place. The Muslim countries that pray and belief are actually the worst place to live in. The poverty and lack of basic necessities is sickening. 

I think people need to check their expectations, don't force high carrier expectations on people that can't achieve it. It kills them. I actually ended up achieving what I had set out to do.  But the hit I took from my failure really made me lose all faith. I still haven't completely recovered  from it. Whenever I go home I try to visit my local community/mosques, I like the intellectual elements of theology, philosophy and idea of community building. I avoid desi Shia communities b/c how traditional they are(i.e food is their top priority) and how little focus they have on community development. I guess I would be considered a munafiq, I doubt God inwardly but would never say it openly. 

If it weren't for the intellectual output of the community I would consider myself an apostate. However short works of Baqir Sadr and others that tackle modern issues have helped.  I recently read a self published book by Syed Jafri called "God and god of science", I really liked it b/c he discusses modern idea of evolution ect. It reads like "The Shia Creed" by Suduq but instead of the topics being discussed in 1000AD it discusses things in 2020AD. The book has it's draw backs, he sometimes is ugly/insulting towards the atheist view, but overall it is a great theological book written by a laymen giving his reason for belief.  

Allah will help you where he sees fit, and knows benefit lies in, "perhaps you wish for a thing you love that is harmful for you, and perhaps you dislike a thing that is useful for you, you don't know, only Allah knows". Religion can help us in the material life and world, but its real goal is to help us succeed in the next one. the verse about captive's was revealed when the Muslim army had captured some tribes women. To stop them from commiting a crime allah revealed the verse that they may marry the captives if they convert to Islam, and only if the women are consentful. There is no concept of "sex slave" in Islam. I hope you research more into Islam, and clear any misconceptions you have, people here will be happy to help. 

"Whoever gets attached to this world has only grabbed continual grief, unattainable aspirations, and unreachable hopes"

-imam jafar as sadiq(عليه السلام)

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I believe any learned Muslim would properly understand laws on slavery in their proper context. And to be honest, even if that cannot be revised nor changed in Islam because Islam cannot be changed, it is not really a problem. Issues like slavery are virtual problems when we talk about the reality of the Muslim world nowaday. But at the same time, if we look at this reality, we will find problems that go far beyond Islam. At an individual or personal level, you can close your eyes and enjoy your spirituality within Islam. That will surely work. It worked pretty well for me. But maybe, as soon as you develop certain social consciousness, especially for those lest favoured, your whole vision of the world may get ruined. It seemed pointless for me to leave Islam for theological disagreements I had (which honestly, weren't many). It seemed like a moral obligation for me to take distance from it, because the problems I could identify within the Muslim world were deeply tied with culture and, obviously, Islam. Because Islam is a part of our culture. Contrary to the Western world, whose culture started with Greeks and Romans, Muslim civilization started with Islam. Pretending otherwise is just naive (and the recent political history of the Arab and North African world is a proof for this). There are many necessary social debates in the Muslim world that simply cannot even take place while Islam is hegemonic. Or at least the way Islam is seen today, as a dogmatic moral code that cannot be discussed, and whose shape and content is mostly defined by certain institutions and individuals instead of society (collectively). Yet there is no room for reformism from within Islam, without the existence of leading thinkers and ideologies outside of Islam. This is also part of the recent Arab history.

Anyway, let's imagine there is in fact no problem with Islam. Yet in which way this religion hasn't turned into a passive element of our culture? There isn't even a small example of revolution nowaday (maybe the best and unique one can be found in Khomeini, but any other attempts have clearly failed, both in social inspiration and duration). If religion cannot inspire people, and adopts a passive stance in a world full of social, legal, political and theological problems requiring urgent debate and solutions, then it's probably not the best ideology to guide our society.

If someone wants to pray, fast, and do whatever to feel spiritually higher, this religion may be perfect. But I honestly care more about the world we live and other human beings than merely about my soul. And in that sense, we do need to move forward. I didn't take distance from religion for deeming it unworthy, or looking for personal gains, or whatever. I did it because I needed to think outside the box, and am open about it because I believe it could inspire others to do the same to start addressing many of the problems we see in our communities and feel we cannot properly address nor discuss because of social/legal impositions highly tied to Islam.

If Islam was not highly politized and tied to social codes, then maybe I wouldn't have this conversation. But it's not the case.

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@inneedofprayers It is now a very common idea. People find it hard to imagine a world where a Supreme being or god watches over every activity of theirs. But what I find harder to believe is how the Big Bang could have occurred. Can an effect take place without an action? This question begs the following-

What happened before the Big Bang ? Human has a curiosity of asking what happened before, so this makes it more difficult. The only logical answer to come across is that God created or caused it. Now again, human's bad tendency, who or what was before God ?

I know atheists and ex Muslims who have the same question. Now, one phrase just kind of solves it. God created everything. Though it seems the answer is not enough, it really is. God created everything, there is nothing before him. He is the First and the Last. A simple solution to a heated debate flaring for centuries. I also couldn't get it first. It took me 7 years to understand. 

Then I started going on the facts I was taught. Born in a Muslim family, I learnt Allah, the Creator of All, is One and second to none. He is the Most Just. He is Exalted and Most Near. He is Just and Graceful. These facts are very hard to believe in, if you look at it in the first sight. If you ponder, you'll be surprised to think a being is near to you yet exalted at the same time. 

But the logic and wisdom is as follows-

Allah cannot be limited by anything because he created those. The Creator is higher than the created thats why. He created dimensions, so He is above them. Same goes for sight and hearing Him. As He positioned things into places, position(taking up space) cannot limit Him. Therefore we abandon the idea that Allah the Almighty is seated on something. 

A reasoning agnostics use is we just can't find Allah's identity, I.e. whether he exists or not. Now as I said bedore Allah made everything. Including science. So it is silly to think science, Allah's wise system and creation, is superior to Almighty Allah. 

These are some things you have to consider @inneedofprayers. Hope it helps.

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13 hours ago, Azad Ibrahim said:

@inneedofprayers It is now a very common idea. People find it hard to imagine a world where a Supreme being or god watches over every activity of theirs. But what I find harder to believe is how the Big Bang could have occurred. Can an effect take place without an action? This question begs the following-

What happened before the Big Bang ? Human has a curiosity of asking what happened before, so this makes it more difficult. The only logical answer to come across is that God created or caused it. Now again, human's bad tendency, who or what was before God ?

I know atheists and ex Muslims who have the same question. Now, one phrase just kind of solves it. God created everything. Though it seems the answer is not enough, it really is. God created everything, there is nothing before him. He is the First and the Last. A simple solution to a heated debate flaring for centuries. I also couldn't get it first. It took me 7 years to understand. 

Then I started going on the facts I was taught. Born in a Muslim family, I learnt Allah, the Creator of All, is One and second to none. He is the Most Just. He is Exalted and Most Near. He is Just and Graceful. These facts are very hard to believe in, if you look at it in the first sight. If you ponder, you'll be surprised to think a being is near to you yet exalted at the same time. 

But the logic and wisdom is as follows-

Allah cannot be limited by anything because he created those. The Creator is higher than the created thats why. He created dimensions, so He is above them. Same goes for sight and hearing Him. As He positioned things into places, position(taking up space) cannot limit Him. Therefore we abandon the idea that Allah the Almighty is seated on something. 

A reasoning agnostics use is we just can't find Allah's identity, I.e. whether he exists or not. Now as I said bedore Allah made everything. Including science. So it is silly to think science, Allah's wise system and creation, is superior to Almighty Allah. 

These are some things you have to consider @inneedofprayers. Hope it helps.

I'm not questioning the existence of a supernatural power that brought the universe into being. I believe that there are spiritual beings that run this world, but organized religion is something different. 

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On 1/31/2021 at 11:14 AM, inneedofprayers said:

I have trouble believing in the system of an organized religion (any religion for that matter). 

Hi saying this  is very general statement becaue even if you don't follow any religious practice but you must follow some  rules & orders in your daily life even when you are alone in your bedroom :) which even following non religious rules like how to drive or wash your hands are same as doing practices in any organized religion even you break any rule then habit of breaking rules will become like practicing  "an organized religion " so I think you must explain  what is organized religion or what is unorganized religion with specifation & full detail from your point of view then we can answer or resolve your problem. 

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Thank you, brother for your post. I am not looking to resolve my problem. In fact, I'm quite satisfied with my views on religion. You're right about following rules in our daily lives, but those rules do not carry any degree of sanctity or obligation (the breaking of which is sacrilege or punishable by hell fire!).

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@inneedofprayers every rule carry any degree of sanctity or obligation for example if you don't wash your hands then you will become ill which becoming ill is same as punishment by hell fire but with lesser degree than that because level of  punishment or reward of any action/deed must be exactly equal to level our action/deed so again your statement is a general statement anyway I was curious to know details not general statements that any Agnostic or Atheists says about every religion but they run away from explaining it in details.:respect:

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On 2/1/2021 at 4:49 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

@inneedofprayers every rule carry any degree of sanctity or obligation for example if you don't wash your hands then you will become ill which becoming ill is same as punishment by hell fire but with lesser degree than that because level of  punishment or reward of any action/deed must be exactly equal to level our action/deed so again your statement is a general statement anyway I was curious to know details not general statements that any Agnostic or Atheists says about every religion but they run away from explaining it in details.:respect:

Dear brother,

There's a difference between washing hands and praying salaat, for instance. If you discover that you have a strong immune system you may decide for yourself not to wash your hands, but of course, you can't follow this argument with praying 5 times a day, can you? 

Secondly, I am not an atheist or agnostic. Unfortunately, when i signed up for your website it only displayed a list of 12 options to chose from- as if you can neatly categorize the entire range of people's diverse religious beliefs (or lack thereof) in only 12 labels! Also, the question wasn't option, which again is something the admins should be looking into! Why should people be forced to declare their religion (or lack of it) to join this website. 

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@inneedofprayers as I know declaring religion is not obligatory for registration also you can change it anytime & about praying 5 times a day is our chice so anyone can prays or refrains from it but level reward or punishiment of it different from not washing hands that is only calculatable in hereafter not in this world , anyway if you want we can talk about it tomorrow inshaAllah.

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5 hours ago, inneedofprayers said:

I believe that there are spiritual beings that run this world, but organized religion is something different. 

This reminded me of a funny line by Shaykh Hamza Yusuf when someone said to him that he does not like organised religion, he said that "you should become a Muslim, we are one of the most disorganised religions!" :hahaha: (Until Imam Mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) returns inshAllah)

Jokes aside, this reminded me of a verse in the Qur'an:

"Allah draws an example: a man jointly owned by several contending masters, and a man belonging entirely to one man: are the two equal in comparison? All praise belongs to Allah! But most of them do not know." (39:29)

In other words, we will be a slave to several masters if we don't submit to Pure Existence (our own "hawa" / desires, our priests who lead us astray etc.)

Jean Jacques Rousseau said "man is born free, but he is everywhere in chains". How true a statement!

2 hours ago, inneedofprayers said:

the breaking of which is sacrilege or punishable by hell fire

Firstly brother, have you not read this verse in the Qur'an?

Quote

"O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful." (39:53)

What if one was to view part of hellfire as separation from God? Should one not perform those actions which will bring us nearer to God?

Quote

Dua Kumayl

فَلَئِن صَيَّرْتَنِي لِلْعُقُوبَاتِ مَعَ أَعْدَائِكَ

So if You takest me to the punishments with Your enemies,

وَجَمَعْتَ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَ أَهْلِ بَلائِكَ

And gatherest me with the people of Your tribulation

وَفَرَّقْتَ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَ أَحِبَّائِكَ وَأَوْلِيَائِكَ

And separatest me from Your friends and saints,

فَهَبْنِي يَا إِلَهِي وَسَيِّدِي وَمَوْلاي وَرَبِّي صَبَرْتُ عَلَى عَذَابِكَ،

Then suppose, My God, my Master, my Protector and my Lord that I am able to endure Your chastisement,

فَكَيْفَ أَصْبِرُ عَلَى فِرَاقِكَ

How can I endure separation from You?

وَهَبْنِي صَبَرْتُ عَلَى حَرِّ نَارِكَ،

And suppose that I am able to endure the heat of Your fire,

فَكَيْفَ أَصْبِرُ عَنِ النَّظَرِ إِلَى كَرَامَتِكَ

How can I endure not gazing upon Your generosity?

أَمْ كَيْفَ أَسْكُنُ فِي النَّارِ وَرَجَائِي عَفْوُكَ

Or how can I dwell in the Fire while my hope is Your pardon?

فَبِعِزَّتِكَ يَا سَيِّدِي وَمَوْلاي أُقْسِمُ صَادِقاً، لَئِن تَرَكْتَنِي نَاطِقاً

So by Your might, my Master and my protector, I swear sincerely, if You leavest me with speech,

لأَضِجَّنَّ إِلَيْكَ بَيْنَ أَهْلِهَا ضَجِيجَ الآمِلِينَ

I will lament to You from the midst of the Fire's inhabitants with lamentation of the hopeful;

وَلأَصْرُخَنَّ إِلَيكَ صُرَاخَ المُسْتَصْرِخِينَ

I will cry to You with the cry of those crying for help;

وَلأَبْكِيَنَّ عَلَيْكَ بُكَاءَ الفَاقِدِينَ

I will weep to You with the weeping of the bereft;

وَلأُنَادِيَنَّكَ أَيْنَ كُنتَ يَا وَلِيَّ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ

And I will call to You, Where art You, O Sponsor of the believers,

يَا غَايَةَ آمَاِل العَارِفِينَ

O Goal of the hopes of Your knowers,

يَا غِيَاثَ المُسْتَغِيثِينَ

O Aid of those who seek assistance,

يَا حَبِيبَ قُلُوبِ الصَّادِقِينَ

O Friend of the hearts of the sincere

وَيَا إِلَهَ العَالَمِينَ

And O God of all the world's inhabitants!

Also brother, inshaAllah I pray that Allah relieves you of all your worries.

 

Forgive me if I have said anything wrong to you or offended you

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22 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

 as I know declaring religion is not obligatory for registration

It is. The religion question appears with a red  asterisk, and you have to select an option from the drop down question to continue! And, no the option to change religion later is not helpful if your desired option isn't available in the drop down menu. 

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20 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

Also brother, inshaAllah I pray that Allah relieves you of all your worries.

Forgive me if I have said anything wrong to you or offended you

 

No, I'm not offended by anything you've said. I used to be extremely devout maybe like some 10 years back! but then things change!

and Yes, Thank you for the prayers! I need them.  I'm very happy that you and other people can and are praying for me regardless of the fact that we do not share same religion or views. This is what humanity is all about. May your kindness be rewarded! :)

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42 minutes ago, inneedofprayers said:

It is. The religion question appears with a red  asterisk, and you have to select an option from the drop down question to continue! And, no the option to change religion later is not helpful if your desired option isn't available in the drop down menu. 

ok when I registered It wasn't obligatory to choose it anyway in my profile ,I can change it maybe after leveling up you will have ability to change religion later inshAllah.

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3 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

ok when I registered It wasn't obligatory to choose it anyway in my profile ,I can change it maybe after leveling up you will have ability to change religion later inshAllah.

Salam brother, hope you're doing well. Thank you for replying.  From the little bit of stalking I did of your profile, I saw that you joined in 2017! That's 3 years back! So yes, a lot can change in 3 years. I hope the admins make the religion question optional, and instead of a drop-down menu, they should leave an open field for people to write whatever and however they wish to describe their views. Hope you have a blessed day!

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An Open Letter to My Family and Muslim Brethren
I believe in, Islam, is not something I believe in because it is the popular thing to do, or that it the best way to ‘gain friends and influence people’. Realise, this is not a faze I am going through and I am not an over-zealous fanatic........https://rahyafteha.ir/8848/an-open-letter-to-my-family-and-muslim-brethren/

 


 

https://rahyafteha.ir/8848/an-open-letter-to-my-family-and-muslim-brethren/

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il tell you what gives me faith

enough faith that would fill any cup

the thought that soon or somewhere in the near or distant future i am going to die, and there will be nobody there to help me anymore

this scares me, and no matter what your opinion , whether your angry at God whether you hate Him, whether you think He is unfair and horrible

truth is at that moment an onward your completely at his mercy so even if you hated Him or hate him , so what , its not going to help you in any way shape or form , your emotion or opinion is worthless and especially at death when free will is removed and your only re compensated for your deeds

your better off doing what He says, yes life is hard for all of us, there is many things we can account for and enumerate that was unfair to us that we suffered that we didnt have that we lost that others had in endless amounts while we struggled to get one or even none be it freedom, be it food be it safety be it happiness whatever it is

we all have much we can complain about, very few people had been given everything and usually the ones who have been given this life are the worst people ie rothschilds soros's rockerfellers etc do u want to be in league with them worshiping the devil?

screw it life can end any moment and your opinion or emotion wont matter anymore u can cry all u like after that but u have to face God and eternity and the reason we came to such conclusion was because we had unhappiness or were unfulfilled in life  in regards to some or a few or all or one thing

but would you rather that your eternity becomes like this forever ? just suffer in silence do your best to be thankful and grateful and patient avoid sins , love God be thankful even for the rubbish in our lives the suffering the misery the hardships , it will all be over one day anyway lets not make our suffering and misery and depression and hardships in this life permanent states in eternity , this life will pass and it has taken many victims many prisoners many fallen people who couldnt dig themselves out of its trenchers and overcome its traps, so much so that they killed the prophets and imams and rejected God's chosen people(not the jews i mean the khalifatulah the true ones not he sunnis ones ) and lets just get through this hell asnd hopefully make it out safe and happy , this life will pass for all of us, in 50 yeas most of us here will probably be dead from either old age or from other things , lets just hang in there for whatever time is left and hope to make God pleased with us and the Imams and Prophets happy with our efforts and faith , this life is quick and miserable even for those who have everything you think they're happy?  look at celebrities look at billionaires even they are unhappy or limited in what they can do, age or even time usually imprisons them so they can event enjoy their money and freedom

this life isnt for enjoyment we werent put here to have fun , we were put here to be tested and death and suffering is all around u how can you be happy anyway? thats just shellfish and greedy and obnoxious

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15 minutes ago, theEndIsNear said:

life isnt for enjoyment we werent put here to have fun , we were put here to be tested and death and suffering is all around u how can you be happy anyway?

 

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53 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

 

it says religion not life

surely you can see the difference here

anyway a good reminder

"And know ye that your possessions and your progeny are but a trial; and that it is Allah with Whom lies your highest reward."

if you want to enjoy life go ahead but when its over all, all that you missed out on achieving in hereafter for eternity will be a pain on its own to bear 

this life is the only chance u get to build mansions and heavenly pleasures , this measly 70-85 years of age is all the chance u got so if u want to enjoy that instead go ahead ur loss not mine

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On 1/25/2021 at 1:06 AM, Bakir said:

Sorry for the late reply. In fact, I'm not exactly agnostic nor atheist. I do believe in God, though I'm not a Muslim due to significant differences with the dogmatic structure of religion itself, that regardless of its historical effectivity, it has no mechanism for self-revision and change (while social, technological and political progress take place in the world). Indeed, my reasons are mostly social and cultural, not theological, as @Mahdavist correctly pointed out. I see religion nowaday not only as an inefficient tool to build better societies, but as a barrier. This perception is evidently reinforced by the local communities and Muslims I have met. Most were uneducated people, selfish, greedy, treated women badly, treated queer people even worse, were politically passive, never had any moral debate (it was all just fiqh), justified terrible actions in the name of fiqh (cheating on their wives, sleeping with underage women, cruel body shaming, etc.). The low moral level that I have seen in all of then has reached a point in which religion is not only something not desirable in my eyes, but something worth warning against. Islam, as a religion, lacks proper inspiration. If in its origins it inspired half of the world (scientists, political leaders, intellectuals, etc), and convinced civilizations to unite under a banner and moral code, nowaday it inspires almost nothing valuable, at least in the West (but I would also bet it's even worse in the East when it puts ignorant idiots in power and protects systems of cruelty). Indeed, Islam and Quran seems to be a morally good moral code commanding people to do good, but in the other hand, it is also commonly used to justify systems of cruelty. This doesn't necessarily mean that Islam supports these systems of cruelty, but we can't move forward if we can't think "out of Islam". You can't change Islam from the inside, as it lacks any mechanism for self revision to begin with. And the amount of old ignorant men in power is too high all around the world. Maybe a new fresh inspirational approach to Islam that contemplates all of this could change things for the better, but right now, the benefits of Islam are significantly worse than its harms. I don't blame Islam as much as I blame the majority of Muslims.

So i'm confused.
Is it about islam or muslims
You first talked about how muslims practise their religion
Then about islam how it lacks the capability of doing self revision to fit into this modern world; Despite how the west with their modern thinking and ways hurt their society and the earth on a daily basis. Then in the end you say that its not about islam but about muslims.

It's still better to live among shias who represent the perfect individuals that ever stepped foot on this planet and practising their teachings, than living amongst the non muslim or non committed environment, Because simply wherever you go you will get attacked and criticized over whatever you do even if it's the right thing you're doing. So it's not really about islam, but lets say its about muslims, humans are prone to error and if they do not know how to practise something that is a perfect system then who it is to blame the people or the perfect system?

There is a case i know where a man deceived two women after he made one of them convert from christianity to islam shia, and one who was already shia and convinced her to commit. So when the two discovered this man's utter hypocrisy, the revert simply was shocked and moved on but didn't blame it on religion and remained a practising shia, and this other shia woman left religion eventually and married a christian after a year. So who succeeded in this test here, who won their akhira?

There is a hadith that i have in arabic and i will translate it to english the best i can:

Aba Abdillah (عليه السلام) said: He who enters religion through people will leave religion through the people. And those who entered religion through the quran and sunnah, the mountains will perish and their religion won't.
روي عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام: أنه قال: من دخل في هذا الدين بالرجال أخرجه منه الرجال كما أدخلوه فيه، ومن دخل فيه بالكتاب والسنة زالت الجبال قبل أن يزول

بحار الأنوار للعلامة المجلسي، ج ٢، ص ١٠٥
كتاب الغيبة للنعماني، ص ٢٢
أمالي الصدوق، ص ١٠٥

So if you wanna leave religion you have to have a better excuse than that please.

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On 2/2/2021 at 3:59 PM, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

Is it about islam or muslims
You first talked about how muslims practise their religion
Then about islam how it lacks the capability of doing self revision to fit into this modern world; Despite how the west with their modern thinking and ways hurt their society and the earth on a daily basis. Then in the end you say that its not about islam but about muslims.

I didn't mention the West, but this also points at another recurring problem. First, you can criticize Western culture or morals without defending Islam, and you can criticize Islamic culture and morals without defending Western culture. I know that most Muslims face this ideological battle within their heads. It was not my case for almost an entire decade. This is not a Barça - Madrid football match where we have to choose a team to side with.

You can criticize Western culture within Western culture, you can question hegemonic morals and views of the world from the inside. This freedom is necessary, although doesn't guarantee any success at a moral and social level. I'm not blind to the racism, fascism, the worst cruel approaches to liberalism and male chauvinistic behaviours in the Western society. This destroys my heart day after day, and I try to do my best to change that. But that's the thing, there is room for change and reasons to have hope. As an Arab and as homosexual, belonging to two marginalized minorities, I have noticed great improvements in the way people treat me. And that is not casual, that is the result of activism. This sort of positive human forces are present in the West, and that is enough to realize there are diverse voices and efforts that are fighting for a genuinely better society.

Meanwhile, I haven't seen this in Islamic contexts when problematic behaviours are technically halal. No one dares to speak against something halal. Fiqh dominates the public discourse, it's something in the hand of appointed ayatollahs, and there is barely room for any change. There are many reasons for which this structure is a significant social problem, especially for minorities and marginalized groups. You won't see shias in Iraq prosecuting those who force women into some sort of halal prostitution (mutah), but you will see death squads inspired by ayatollahs chasing and murdering presumably LGBT people in the middle of the streets, without facing any legal consequences.

On 2/2/2021 at 3:59 PM, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

It's still better to live among shias who represent the perfect individuals

The above mentioned death squads are mostly shias in Iraq, it is a known case. It's just an extreme example. The normal examples I have been able to see in local communities are less terrible, yet no examples to follow or inspire newer generations. I have met many people who inspired me in my life, but only one of these was a Muslim, and it was never his piety as a Muslim what inspired me, but his knowledge in secular philisophy and social sciences. He spoke about real things that matter, not Angels, djinns, miracles and old stories with simple metaphores that are only appreciated by 5 year old kids.

I'm still not sure what makes someone perfect, but definitely it's not about identifying as Muslim. That always has been a red flag in my life.

On 2/2/2021 at 3:59 PM, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

Because simply wherever you go you will get attacked and criticized over whatever you do even if it's the right thing you're doing.

This will happen to me in any environment, because I dont pledge blind alliegance to any banner. Non Muslim environments are very diverse and complex (as well as some Muslim environments: I have met people in this forum that I wished I could have met in my local community, because they are genuinely different from the filth I have met).

---

As for the "excuse" of leaving religion (it's fun, because you just stop believing, it's not something you "choose"):

The reason I left is not just about the bad examples of Muslims I have had in my surroundings. Those who know me know I have been surrounded by animals for many years, and I didn't care because I knew and know that Islam is not Muslims. Nonetheless, I realized that Islam is in fact also part of the problem, or the way we understand it at least. If you can't change Islam, if you can't change the value of Fiqh over morality and common sense in our societies, then we have to take distance from Islam. At least the necessary distance to question this hegemonic world view. Because right now, for me, we are stuck. And that has to do solely with Islam and the way we understand it. I cannot change that. And I think Muslims can't change that either. So the solution is simple. Let's turn back to reason and leave nonsense behind. Life is too short to lose our time discussing if it is halal or not to cheat on your wife. Enough.

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8 minutes ago, Bakir said:

Life is too short to lose our time discussing if it is halal or not to cheat on your wife.

The people on this forum don't realise how much harm they are causing. Maybe the worst part is how intellectually weak their own reasons for belief are.

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57 minutes ago, Bakir said:

Meanwhile, I haven't seen this in Islamic contexts when problematic behaviours are technically halal. No one dares to speak against something halal. Fiqh dominates the public discourse, it's something in the hand of appointed ayatollahs, and there is barely room for any change. There are many reasons for which this structure is a significant social problem, especially for minorities and marginalized groups. You won't see shias in Iraq prosecuting those who force women into some sort of halal prostitution (mutah), but you will see death squads inspired by ayatollahs chasing and murdering presumably LGBT people in the middle of the streets, without facing any legal consequences.

In Islam, we do not just look at fiqh. Not everything is about fiqh. There is also akhlaq, aqa'id, amr bil maruf, nahi 'an il-munkar, etc.. The greatest believers are those who have akhlaq, those who are pious, seek to do good, enjoin the good, seek justice, forbid the evil, help the poor, are punctual, humble, patient, trustworthy and have many other similar qualities. The A'immah were even polite and just to evil people. You should not look at the Muslim society as you will rarely see those that have such qualities as there are not many who truly believe or are truly devoted to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and the Hereafter.

28 minutes ago, Bakir said:

If you can't change Islam, if you can't change the value of Fiqh over morality and common sense in our societies, then we have to take distance from Islam.

Just because society and its views change doesn't mean that Islam has to be changed with it. Society changes all the time and they are not always in the right. Arabs use to bury their daughters alive and that was considered justified, Africans were enslaved for agricultural and industrial purposes and that was considered justified, etc. and these were considered logical and reasonable until later. Islam established a set of rules that are still in great need and use today which, if people were to strictly follow them, would make society more moral, ethical and reasonable. These rules keep people aligned and allow order. Without alignment and order corruption, evil and chaos arise.

46 minutes ago, Bakir said:

Let's turn back to reason and leave nonsense behind.

Yes I agree that we should look to reason and that we should take a step back and investigate Islam and other religions and views but to assume that Islam or the way we currently understand it is nonsense is farfetched.

44 minutes ago, Bakir said:

Life is too short to lose our time discussing...

Yes this life, which is a multitude of tests and tribulations from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), is short. The next life is longer and greater. Hence, Islamic jurisprudence should be discussed when necessary.

 

 

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13 hours ago, Bakir said:

 

 

Prophet came and said: I am here to perfect the ethics of man kind.

جأت لأتمم مكارم الأخلاق

That is a famous hadith that everyone knows i think. 

There is also a hadith from angel gebrael to the prophet that indicates if a man hurts the feelings of a woman god will throw him on his face in hell.

So lets talk about those who are in permanent marriage and do temporary marriages all the time how the wife would feel about that? Its halal but its ethically Wrong. This Need that a man has is like sleeping and eating if we excessively do it it will hurt us. Mutaa is halal does it mean men can indulge in 100 relatioships? Trust me those men are miserable already and they have taken their religion for fun. It talks in quran about them: 

Read Sura 7 - verse 51 to verse 53 see how God deals with such people

 الذين اتخذوا دينهم لهوا ولعبا

Also read sura 4 - verse 24 how it is talking about multiple marriage and marriage from non-muslims and how in the end the verse says and if you are patient then it is more just for your souls. وأَن تصبروا خير لكم

So you see there are actual men who are still modest and they practice religion like how i mentioned earlier.

I met people that if something wasnt ethical but still halal they wouldnt do it. 

Brother our religion is very delicate, i live in an arab community too and i see the flaws but if i were to focus on these flaws and not see the bright side i would have left religion long ago. Just dont lose hope in this divine religion and always get ready for a way back to being religious. Even if you're gay and you didn't act on it thats fine. And some things among people are best kept unsaid. Remember the hadith of imam ali where he says: خاطبوا الناس على قدر عقولهم

Speak to people in a way they will understand. 

If you speak to people less than what they know they will think you are dull and if you speak to them more than what they are capable to understand they will definitely fear/hate you. 

This applies to talking openly about you being a homosexual in front of a muslim that never saw a homosexual in their entire life. And plus homosexuality is not something irreversible. Work hard enough on it and you will get eventually attracted to the other gender. In the end we are all born to have a family and have kids. That is one of the main purpose of our fitra and humanity. And of course this thing applies on you and on everyone, disregarding their choices in life. Some people would say who am i to bring human beings into this unjust world... thats just something wrong to say and there is something wrong in this way of thinking. 

And trust me in Iraq the least of their problems is talking about homosexuality and allowing/forbidding mutaa. Thats another topic entirely that worth a single thread alone. 

 

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“Ya Allah Ya Rahman Ya Raheem, Ya Muqallibul Quloob, Thabbit Qalbi ‘Ala Deenik!”

O Allah! O The Compassionate! O The Merciful! O Turner of hearts! Make my heart firm on Your religion (deen)!

Quote

 

We have been commanded to recite this Dua regularly. Shayikh Sadooq narrates from Abdullah bin Sinan who says that Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) said,"After this a time of such doubt will befall you that you will be without the visible signs and a guiding Imam. And no one shall be able to achieve salvation from this except those who recite "Dua-e-Ghareeq."

The narrator asked what this Dua was? Imam ((عليه السلام).) replied, After repeating 'Muqallebal Quloob' the narrator added the word, 'Wal absaar' (and the vision). When Imam ((عليه السلام).) heard this, he said, "Indeed Allah is the Who changes the hearts and vision, but you recite the Dua as I have said."   (Kamaluddin Vol. 2 Pg. 351)

https://www.duas.org/imamezaman/ghareek.htm

 

 

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

O Allah, (please do) send blessings to Muhammad and the Household of Muhammad,

بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ

اَللَّهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلَىٰ مُحَمَّدٍ وَآلِ مُحَمَّدٍ

I am satisfied and happy that Allah is my Lord,
Muhammad (blessings of Allah be on
him and on his children) is my prophet;


Islam is my religion,Quran is the book (I follow),
Kabah is the direction (towards which I turn),
Ali is my wali (vicegerent) and Imam (guide),
Hasan, Husayn, Ali son of Husayn,
Muhammad son of Ali, Jafar son of Muhammad,
Musa son of Jafar , Ali son of Musa,
Muhammad son of Ali, Ali son of Muhammad,
Hasan son Ali, Hujjat (living argument) son of Hasan,
(blessings of Allah be on them all)
are my Imams (guides).


O Allah, I am satisfied and happy that 
all of them are my Imams,
so let me be a source of happiness to them.
Verily You abe able to do all things
.

رَضِيتُ بِاللهِ رَبّاً وَبِمُحَمَّدٍ صَلّى اللهُ عَلَيهِ وآلِهِ نَبِيَّاً

 وبِالإسْلامِ دِيناً وبِالقُرآنِ كِتاباً

 وَبِالكَعْبَةِ قِبْلَةً

 وبِعلِيٍّ وَلِيّاً وإماماً

 وبِالحَسَنِ والحُسَينِ وعَلِيّ بنِ الحُسَينِ 

ومُحَمَّدِ بنِ عَليٍّ وجَعْفَرِ بنِ مُحَمَّدٍ 

وَمُوسى بْنِ جَعْفَرٍ وعَليِّ بْنِ مُوسى 

ومُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عليِّ وعَليِّ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ 

والحَسَنِ والحُجَّةِ بْنِ الحَسَنِ صَلَواتُ اللهِ عَلَيْهِمْ أئِمَّةً

 اللّهُمَّ إنّي رَضيتُ بَهِمْ أئِمّةً فارْضِني لَهُمْ 

إنَّكَ علي كُلِّ شَيءٍ قَدير.

https://www.duas.org/hemaan.htm

 

 

 

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On 2/6/2021 at 2:48 AM, Muhammed Ali said:

The people on this forum don't realise how much harm they are causing. Maybe the worst part is how intellectually weak their own reasons for belief are.

@313_Waiter I am referring to a certain group. I misspoke when I said "the people on this forum". I mean those people who don't realize that focusing on issues that cause people moral difficulties is not a good idea. About 10 years ago there were more of them here. Now there are few left. They would find rulings and narrations that make Islam seem like a callous religion, and they would present these to the members. They might be doing it because they feel it is the truth, but they need to balance it out with positive messages too.

In my view their own reasons for belief are not so strong; so they should be careful with giving other people a slanted image of Islam.

This is my view and others may disagree.

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Not completely lost faith, but certainly felt helpless/unaided by faith after a shock diagnosis of severe crohn's disease that left me debilitated, single and unable to work as a medical doctor on the precipice of my career (I turn 28 in July) that was just about to begin. I felt that all my prayers, dua's, fasting, abstinence from haram relationships was a giant waste and I hugely regretted not experiencing haram relationships at college whilst I was healthy and had the chance as my disease now means I will remain single and unexperienced for the rest of my life. 

Still pray, still muslim but I don't feel the point in putting any effort/energy into religion beyond this. Obviously I don't do anything haram, I just follow all the rules whether I like it or not because I don't want to go to hell after living a terrible life on Earth. But religion on the whole gives me no to very little comfort nor do I expect it to.

Maybe this will change in the future and I will become more religious again, I really hope Islam can give me the comfort I so dearly crave right now.

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11 hours ago, Guest crohnsruinedmylife said:

Not completely lost faith, but certainly felt helpless/unaided by faith after a shock diagnosis of severe crohn's disease that left me debilitated, single and unable to work as a medical doctor on the precipice of my career (I turn 28 in July) that was just about to begin. I felt that all my prayers, dua's, fasting, abstinence from haram relationships was a giant waste and I hugely regretted not experiencing haram relationships at college whilst I was healthy and had the chance as my disease now means I will remain single and unexperienced for the rest of my life. 

Still pray, still muslim but I don't feel the point in putting any effort/energy into religion beyond this. Obviously I don't do anything haram, I just follow all the rules whether I like it or not because I don't want to go to hell after living a terrible life on Earth. But religion on the whole gives me no to very little comfort nor do I expect it to.

Maybe this will change in the future and I will become more religious again, I really hope Islam can give me the comfort I so dearly crave right now.

I'm sorry that you've been diagonised with this disease brother. Allah puts in tribulation only if he loves us and wants our iman and virtue to increase, people who indulge in haram things may seem happy and lucky but in truth they're the most unfortunate. its okay for your faith to feel shakened in face of troubles, after all very few of us are perfect

"The example of a believer is like that of a branch of a tree which the winds move around. The believe gets pushed around by pains and illness. The likeness of a hypocrite is like that of a straight cane which is never bent or harmed until death approaches and it bends down." - imam jafar as sadiq(عليه السلام)

Keep your faith in Allah and remember how many how many comforts, mercies and favors he has granted you in your life before this one illness, and inshallah you'll come out a stronger and better human being. 

If you're looking for a partner and can't find anyone, you can ask the priest in your local mosque that you need one, or ask your parents to find someone for you.

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1 hour ago, smma said:

 

If you're looking for a partner and can't find anyone, you can ask the priest in your local mosque that you need one, or ask your parents to find someone for you.

Mutah is also a choice, but its only allowed if you're desperate and fear youll sin

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4 hours ago, smma said:

Mutah is also a choice, but its only allowed if you're desperate and fear youll sin

The only thing I am desperate for is finding a way to get over this disease that seems to be eating away at me. 

Partners are only for the fit and healthy with their whole lives ahead of them. Not for the sick and housebound that have nothing left to offer. 

Luckily your brain rewires itself after being ill for so long, so I have lost interest in companionship, my focus at the moment is 100% on this disease now so I don't have time to think about loneliness or anything else.

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20 hours ago, smma said:

but its only allowed if you're desperate and fear youll sin

Salam,

Do you have a source for this? I thought it was recommended for men esp virgins.

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