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In the Name of God بسم الله

Ex-Muslims, what made you lose faith?

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To be fair did they even have faith to begin with, I feel like it just people born as muslims who didn’t really look into it and parents forced it upon them hence they were repulsed by it 

In my life my belief in God has only grown stronger. I use to be agnostic, but the more I look around the more evident becomes Gods existence. I have difficult seeing my self as an Atheist one day. Bu

il tell you what gives me faith enough faith that would fill any cup the thought that soon or somewhere in the near or distant future i am going to die, and there will be nobody there to hel

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25 minutes ago, theEndIsNear said:

To be fair did they even have faith to begin with, I feel like it just people born as muslims who didn’t really look into it and parents forced it upon them hence they were repulsed by it

some parents just teach how to pray and read some Quran and think their duty is done. Alhamdulilah, my parents not only made sure how to pray , but also taught me what Islam really is and its true spirit. They taught me to keep good company, one which doesn't help me stray off the religion.

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7 hours ago, theEndIsNear said:

To be fair did they even have faith to begin with, I feel like it just people born as muslims who didn’t really look into it and parents forced it upon them hence they were repulsed by it 

True, or there are ethnic cultural norms that they despise and conflate with Islamic practice.

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Salaam,

Ask see brother @khamosh21's posts. I am curious about brother @Bakir he used to be so religious from his posts but now I heard he is agnostic?

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I can't speak on their behalf but I notice often that their issues were social or cultural rather than theological. 

I don't usually hear them bringing arguments against the Qur'an for example, rather they often point at social issues in muslim communities or negative encounters with family or local preachers. 

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Once an ex-atheist told me one of the reasons he left Islam was conflictions with history and Quran.

For ex he told me the verse banning alcohol was only revealed after a where Muslim troops were so drunk they lost?  He think the prophet made it up to avoid a defeat like that again

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While I am a Guest, I am a Muslim that is considering either Agnosticism or Atheism if convincing. I have plenty of reasons for why I'm beginning to question my own beliefs on top of having to deal with my existential crisis. My childhood was so simple. I was born and lived in Pakistan. Nowadays in USA. Despite my childhood being simple, it was full of hardships, cruelty, and abusiveness in both physiological and psychological. My parents are nice and welcoming. But, My Maulwi Sahab who taught me the Quran on top of Namaaz would beat me down to submission if I don't recite the Quran properly. I was an obedient child at least, but he still beat me down if I made even one error in reciting The Quran wrong. All the Diacritical Marks. He taught me the Madinah Arabic Style when reading The Quran which is what I'm used to if I'm reading Arabic.

At least I've learned from my Maulwi Sahab how to read Arabic. Can't understand it though. Didn't receive the education for that afterwards.

But, you know how Life is sometimes. Some people are just mean. I should consider my case to be an isolated incident. My childhood traumas are only minor compared to why as a Muslim I'm considering either Agnosticism or Atheism.

The whole concept of Eternality in Life after Death frightens me to the core. I as a Human Being along with the rest of the creations God created have limitations. We have an expiration date for when we are born and when we leave this temporary state of existence known as Life. No matter what decision God decides for me, be it eternal torture (Hell) or eternal bliss (Heaven) the fact that everything in that Life after Death becomes Eternal alone is frightening to me. So let me ask some puzzling questions that lead me to an existential and spiritual crisis,

If our Human Bodies have limitations in terms of both Pleasure and Pain then does the experience of our Human Bodies transfer accordingly to our seemingly Eternal Soul? Don't our Eternal Soul feel the same 5 empirical senses of our Bodies when we act in this Life? If our bodies die, then would our Pleasure and Pain that we experienced throughout our temporary state of existence known as Life still be limited in our Eternal Soul? If it's going to be eternal then I can't comprehend my head around how that is a possibility? Some Muslims say your pain and pleasure would be magnified up to infinity in your Life after Death in either Hell or Heaven, but to me none of those options are appealing to me at all simply because such amount of Pleasure and Pain becomes meaningless to the point of not feeling anything anymore. Sure God, you're eternally torturing me and putting me in a state of pain and misery up to infinity in Hell. Sure God, you're eternally pleasuring me and putting me in a state of bliss and peace in Heaven. But, at what cost when the state of my soul being eternal makes me feel nothing simply because if we are currently Living in a world where Life is Temporary, then so is the Pleasure and Pain we experience ha. A world where pleasure and pain are eternal along with your self sounds meaningless to the point of not feeling anything anymore. No Pleasure. No Pain. Nothing. Just nothing. I feel nothing. I am nothing. I exist, but someday I'll die, become nothing and forgotten.

I'll still try to be open about the existence of God, but my Soul being Eternal frightens me because of how much limitations Human Beings experience in terms of Pleasure and Pain. I'm okay with the fact that when I'm dead, I'm nothing but bones and dust. If God wishes to resurrect me from the dead and decides that I go to either Heaven or Hell based on my actions and intentions so far in this Life it honestly wouldn't make a difference to me. Because the concept of everything being Eternal in Life after Death makes me feel neither Pleasure nor Pain.

Can a Finite Creature reside in a Life after Death where everything is Infinite? This sounds interesting as it imposes if something from the One Dimension can understand the other from the Two Dimension. Our Life in this Temporary World is composed of 11 directions according to String Theory. So far we Humans can comprehend from One Dimension to the Third Dimension. The Life after Death sounds like infinite dimensions from which I don't know how our Eternal Souls which are locked in our Bodies and have experienced the same as our bodies did based on our 5 empirical senses in this Temporary World and have limitations would experience a Life like that? Well God can do whatever He wants. I'm beginning to just not care anymore what happens to me in Life after Death.

Also, I don't care what Shaytan says if his goal throughout why he's misguiding Humanity away from the path of worshipping God is out of arrogance and him being a jealous bigot against Humans being the worst creation God created. Hence why God accepted his challenge and the rest is Abrahamic Theology. So are we Humans just guinea pigs or lab rats being tested by God to see where we end up? Heaven or Hell?

I don't know if I have reasons that are superior to the Shaytan, but I have reasons that are at least different unlike Shaytan.

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36 minutes ago, Guest X__X said:

While I am a Guest, I am a Muslim that is considering either Agnosticism or Atheism if convincing. I have plenty of reasons for why I'm beginning to question my own beliefs on top of having to deal with my existential crisis. My childhood was so simple. I was born and lived in Pakistan. Nowadays in USA. Despite my childhood being simple, it was full of hardships, cruelty, and abusiveness in both physiological and psychological. My parents are nice and welcoming. But, My Maulwi Sahab who taught me the Quran on top of Namaaz would beat me down to submission if I don't recite the Quran properly. I was an obedient child at least, but he still beat me down if I made even one error in reciting The Quran wrong. All the Diacritical Marks. He taught me the Madinah Arabic Style when reading The Quran which is what I'm used to if I'm reading Arabic.

At least I've learned from my Maulwi Sahab how to read Arabic. Can't understand it though. Didn't receive the education for that afterwards.

But, you know how Life is sometimes. Some people are just mean. I should consider my case to be an isolated incident. My childhood traumas are only minor compared to why as a Muslim I'm considering either Agnosticism or Atheism.

The whole concept of Eternality in Life after Death frightens me to the core. I as a Human Being along with the rest of the creations God created have limitations. We have an expiration date for when we are born and when we leave this temporary state of existence known as Life. No matter what decision God decides for me, be it eternal torture (Hell) or eternal bliss (Heaven) the fact that everything in that Life after Death becomes Eternal alone is frightening to me. So let me ask some puzzling questions that lead me to an existential and spiritual crisis,

If our Human Bodies have limitations in terms of both Pleasure and Pain then does the experience of our Human Bodies transfer accordingly to our seemingly Eternal Soul? Don't our Eternal Soul feel the same 5 empirical senses of our Bodies when we act in this Life? If our bodies die, then would our Pleasure and Pain that we experienced throughout our temporary state of existence known as Life still be limited in our Eternal Soul? If it's going to be eternal then I can't comprehend my head around how that is a possibility? Some Muslims say your pain and pleasure would be magnified up to infinity in your Life after Death in either Hell or Heaven, but to me none of those options are appealing to me at all simply because such amount of Pleasure and Pain becomes meaningless to the point of not feeling anything anymore. Sure God, you're eternally torturing me and putting me in a state of pain and misery up to infinity in Hell. Sure God, you're eternally pleasuring me and putting me in a state of bliss and peace in Heaven. But, at what cost when the state of my soul being eternal makes me feel nothing simply because if we are currently Living in a world where Life is Temporary, then so is the Pleasure and Pain we experience ha. A world where pleasure and pain are eternal along with your self sounds meaningless to the point of not feeling anything anymore. No Pleasure. No Pain. Nothing. Just nothing. I feel nothing. I am nothing. I exist, but someday I'll die, become nothing and forgotten.

I'll still try to be open about the existence of God, but my Soul being Eternal frightens me because of how much limitations Human Beings experience in terms of Pleasure and Pain. I'm okay with the fact that when I'm dead, I'm nothing but bones and dust. If God wishes to resurrect me from the dead and decides that I go to either Heaven or Hell based on my actions and intentions so far in this Life it honestly wouldn't make a difference to me. Because the concept of everything being Eternal in Life after Death makes me feel neither Pleasure nor Pain.

Can a Finite Creature reside in a Life after Death where everything is Infinite? This sounds interesting as it imposes if something from the One Dimension can understand the other from the Two Dimension. Our Life in this Temporary World is composed of 11 directions according to String Theory. So far we Humans can comprehend from One Dimension to the Third Dimension. The Life after Death sounds like infinite dimensions from which I don't know how our Eternal Souls which are locked in our Bodies and have experienced the same as our bodies did based on our 5 empirical senses in this Temporary World and have limitations would experience a Life like that? Well God can do whatever He wants. I'm beginning to just not care anymore what happens to me in Life after Death.

Also, I don't care what Shaytan says if his goal throughout why he's misguiding Humanity away from the path of worshipping God is out of arrogance and him being a jealous bigot against Humans being the worst creation God created. Hence why God accepted his challenge and the rest is Abrahamic Theology. So are we Humans just guinea pigs or lab rats being tested by God to see where we end up? Heaven or Hell?

I don't know if I have reasons that are superior to the Shaytan, but I have reasons that are at least different unlike Shaytan.

I wish I could have a talk with you or discussion somehow about this. Seems interesting enough and I have a lot to say. 

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19 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

I wish I could have a talk with you or discussion somehow about this. Seems interesting enough and I have a lot to say. 

Well I have my reasons for why I'm posting as a guest. Because if my parents found out about what I've been doing with all this soul searching, online searching, schools of thought searching, and dealing with these spiritual and existential crisis their hearts wouldn't be able to take it. I'm neither Sunni nor Shia. So, out of respect I just do my own research and leave it up to God to decide where my fate lies. I just leave my parents be with what they believe in. It's just between me and God. No one else. But, at the end of the day I submitted that I'm already misguided and wrong. We live in an Age where anyone can be Misinformed about everything in Life so what do I know. What do you know? What does anyone know anymore? Even what I've posted might not be as certain since God can do whatever He wants and that's something incomprehensible. He can change and bend rules to His will all He wants despite the contradictions so who knows? So, I'm just confused all around. I should be punished in Hell for all eternity despite all my good deeds. But it won't matter to me since I'll just deal with the eternal damnation, pain, and misery. All the sins God is exposing upon me as I reek of shame, indignity, and regret. But even with all that, the eternal state of all such pain and torture is meaningless to me that all of that wouldn't make me feel anything anymore. Similarly, the same is also said if God decides to put me in Heaven instead.

I just want God to cease me to Be. I want nothing to do with any of His problems with Iblis The Shaytan being an arrogant jealous bigot against Human Beings and why He's using that reasoning as justification for why we Humans exist in the first place in this temporary state of existence known as Life. And before you ask, No I don't believe Shaytan as an ideal that any Free Will creation of God can succumb to. I consider Shaytan no different from Iblis, Lucifer, The Devil etc. They are all the same entity. Iblis = Shaytan. Lucifer = Shaytan. The Devil = Shaytan. Shaytan is a creation of God who challenged His authority to misguide Humanity away from worshipping Him out of pure arrogance and bigoted jealousy. He believes Jinns are the superior creation and not Humans. Therefore, anyone who follows the footsteps of Shaytan as a Creation of God are Evil and condemned to Hell for all eternity.

I'm not here to convince you to stop worshipping God. Do whatever makes sense to you in this Life. It's every creature for itself. A dog eat dog world out there.

I'm just saying that I'm beginning to just not care anymore which is a much different problem altogether that levels on existential and spiritual crisis.

So no to Shaytan. And no to God. Just leave me be or better yet cease me to Be if you've created me God. Cause I don't want to Be anymore. Be as in exist.

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3 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

same with ethereal

In my communications with brother ethereal, I am sure he was a Sufi Sunni Muslim. When he called himself atheist or agnostic, this was as per his understanding of Tawhid and the Wahdat al Wujud concept which is attributed to Sheikh Ibn Arabi. Basically it means that nothing but God exists, our existence is merely illusory or is like an expression / shadow / manifestation of God. At the same time all that we see is not God, since the essence (Mahiya) of God is Pure Existence (Wujud), while our mahiya is not existence (we are contingent existents). Ibn Arabi explained this by the phrase “Huwa la Huwa” (He not He). That being said, Ibn Arabi expressed that the Dhat (essence) of God is unknowable.

Whether you agree with @eThErEaL or not is up to you, but he was very much a Muslim.

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2 hours ago, Guest X__X said:

So are we Humans just guinea pigs or lab rats being tested by God to see where we end up? Heaven or Hell?

No, God is the all Knowing He knows where we end up, He created us so that He could shower His Mercy upon us, so that we can know and worship Him and so that we can mature spiritually and be representatives of God on earth. Take it easy and be sincere inshaAllah, faith and spirituality is not a race but a marathon.

Also see this short post:

Wsalam

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4 hours ago, Guest X__X said:

While I am a Guest, I am a Muslim that is considering either Agnosticism or Atheism if convincing. I have plenty of reasons for why I'm beginning to question my own beliefs on top of having to deal with my existential crisis. My childhood was so simple. I was born and lived in Pakistan. Nowadays in USA. Despite my childhood being simple, it was full of hardships, cruelty, and abusiveness in both physiological and psychological. My parents are nice and welcoming. But, My Maulwi Sahab who taught me the Quran on top of Namaaz would beat me down to submission if I don't recite the Quran properly. I was an obedient child at least, but he still beat me down if I made even one error in reciting The Quran wrong. All the Diacritical Marks. He taught me the Madinah Arabic Style when reading The Quran which is what I'm used to if I'm reading Arabic.

At least I've learned from my Maulwi Sahab how to read Arabic. Can't understand it though. Didn't receive the education for that afterwards.

But, you know how Life is sometimes. Some people are just mean. I should consider my case to be an isolated incident. My childhood traumas are only minor compared to why as a Muslim I'm considering either Agnosticism or Atheism.

The whole concept of Eternality in Life after Death frightens me to the core. I as a Human Being along with the rest of the creations God created have limitations. We have an expiration date for when we are born and when we leave this temporary state of existence known as Life. No matter what decision God decides for me, be it eternal torture (Hell) or eternal bliss (Heaven) the fact that everything in that Life after Death becomes Eternal alone is frightening to me. So let me ask some puzzling questions that lead me to an existential and spiritual crisis,

If our Human Bodies have limitations in terms of both Pleasure and Pain then does the experience of our Human Bodies transfer accordingly to our seemingly Eternal Soul? Don't our Eternal Soul feel the same 5 empirical senses of our Bodies when we act in this Life? If our bodies die, then would our Pleasure and Pain that we experienced throughout our temporary state of existence known as Life still be limited in our Eternal Soul? If it's going to be eternal then I can't comprehend my head around how that is a possibility? Some Muslims say your pain and pleasure would be magnified up to infinity in your Life after Death in either Hell or Heaven, but to me none of those options are appealing to me at all simply because such amount of Pleasure and Pain becomes meaningless to the point of not feeling anything anymore. Sure God, you're eternally torturing me and putting me in a state of pain and misery up to infinity in Hell. Sure God, you're eternally pleasuring me and putting me in a state of bliss and peace in Heaven. But, at what cost when the state of my soul being eternal makes me feel nothing simply because if we are currently Living in a world where Life is Temporary, then so is the Pleasure and Pain we experience ha. A world where pleasure and pain are eternal along with your self sounds meaningless to the point of not feeling anything anymore. No Pleasure. No Pain. Nothing. Just nothing. I feel nothing. I am nothing. I exist, but someday I'll die, become nothing and forgotten.

I'll still try to be open about the existence of God, but my Soul being Eternal frightens me because of how much limitations Human Beings experience in terms of Pleasure and Pain. I'm okay with the fact that when I'm dead, I'm nothing but bones and dust. If God wishes to resurrect me from the dead and decides that I go to either Heaven or Hell based on my actions and intentions so far in this Life it honestly wouldn't make a difference to me. Because the concept of everything being Eternal in Life after Death makes me feel neither Pleasure nor Pain.

Can a Finite Creature reside in a Life after Death where everything is Infinite? This sounds interesting as it imposes if something from the One Dimension can understand the other from the Two Dimension. Our Life in this Temporary World is composed of 11 directions according to String Theory. So far we Humans can comprehend from One Dimension to the Third Dimension. The Life after Death sounds like infinite dimensions from which I don't know how our Eternal Souls which are locked in our Bodies and have experienced the same as our bodies did based on our 5 empirical senses in this Temporary World and have limitations would experience a Life like that? Well God can do whatever He wants. I'm beginning to just not care anymore what happens to me in Life after Death.

Also, I don't care what Shaytan says if his goal throughout why he's misguiding Humanity away from the path of worshipping God is out of arrogance and him being a jealous bigot against Humans being the worst creation God created. Hence why God accepted his challenge and the rest is Abrahamic Theology. So are we Humans just guinea pigs or lab rats being tested by God to see where we end up? Heaven or Hell?

I don't know if I have reasons that are superior to the Shaytan, but I have reasons that are at least different unlike Shaytan.

I will provide an input brother in sometime.

Don't worry. Your queries are genuine. People have questions and they should be. Answered.

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There's this one hadith in which Imam Jafar(عليه السلام) looks into the future and weeps. His(عليه السلام) companions ask on the reason of crying. He(عليه السلام) says in the future, He's(عليه السلام) watching Muslims wake up with Imaan(faith) in their hearts and they lose it by nightfall and this saddens the Imam(عليه السلام)

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43 minutes ago, Revert1963 said:

In my life my belief in God has only grown stronger. I use to be agnostic, but the more I look around the more evident becomes Gods existence. I have difficult seeing my self as an Atheist one day. But of cause there was once I couldn't imagine my self being a Muslim, so you never know. God works in mysterious ways and he leads astray whom he wants.
However some times my faith in religion reaches a low point. This i often not due to God, but due to people. Even when I sometimes get depressed over the challenges that God had in store for me in my life it will not stop me from believing in God. Even if I think he is unfair I know that he is the only one that can save me. I understand God separate from religion. So when people do bad things in the name of religion, it doesn't effect my view on God. So I suspect that those who fall out of religion does it because people put them of and they identify religion and subsequently also God with those people who put them of.
Maybe I man just lucky that I have this personal relation to God. One day when I was feeling down over the terms of my current life I told him that I would never abandon my belief in him, but I would abandon religion and stop praying. The same night I had a dream where a voice said to me "don't you even dare abandoning religion" Then I saw the flames of hell fire just for a fraction of a second engulf my feet and I felt a pain I had never felt before. I woke up immediately and I still felt decreasing pain for five minutes after I woke up.  This is one of the reasons why I have difficulty imagining me being an Atheist, though it did cause a crisis in my relation to God. Could I still see him as a friend now that he threatened me with hell fire? Friend or not, I couldn't claim that he didn't exist. On the contrary, my belief in his existence only got stronger.

If your dream was real (actual message from god) then don't see it as a negative thing, on the contrary you're a very lucky Person. God loves you so much that he contacted you in such a direct way just so you don't end up commiting a mistake. 

As for people who do bad stuff in the name of religion, those people don't care about religion, for them religion is just a tool to achieve their means. Imam hussain(عليه السلام) has a very good quote regarding this

"men are slaves of the world, religion and piety are on their lips as they help them get along smoothly in the world, but only a few prove themselves in time of troubles and tribulations".

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5 hours ago, smma said:

Most people arent comfortable talking with people they meet online. 

I figured that, but I don't understand the problem with it. A lot of people are brave warriors, stronger than Galut, when it comes to typing. I don't get why they can't use their voices to speak - I'm referring to the so-called men. 

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16 hours ago, smma said:

If your dream was real (actual message from god) then...

In reality I have no way of knowing. An atheist would probably think that I was imagining things. They might even try to psychologize, trying to analyze why my subconscious had a need to make up such a story about hell fire. I have had a lot of similar incidents, though not all at powerful as the one mentioned, and from an early age I have interpreted them in a spiritual way. I don't think there is anything special about me. I think all people experience these things from time to time, but many people shrugs it of believing that they are imagining things. They may even try to psychologize them selves as to why they had such dreams. I think it is a question of their iman.

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33 minutes ago, Revert1963 said:

In reality I have no way of knowing. An atheist would probably think that I was imagining things. They might even try to psychologize, trying to analyze why my subconscious had a need to make up such a story about hell fire. I have had a lot of similar incidents, though not all at powerful as the one mentioned, and from an early age I have interpreted them in a spiritual way. I don't think there is anything special about me. I think all people experience these things from time to time, but many people shrugs it of believing that they are imagining things. They may even try to psychologize them selves as to why they had such dreams. I think it is a question of their iman.

MashaAllah sister, thanks for sharing your experience. One of the responses that atheists give to spiritual dreams or Near Death Experiences is that the brain is hallucinating or creating a comfortable story to cope with traumatic experiences. I feel this is simply dismissing the experiences of the people who go through such experiences, for them this is very real (like the psychologist Raymond Moody). It especially does not make sense in the case of shared near death experiences. Unfortunately  we live in an age where everything has to be given a naturalistic or scientific explanation, which naturally entails the desacralisation of man and nature, seeing it as merely a rearrangement of particles.

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On 1/13/2021 at 12:47 PM, Guest X__X said:

But, My Maulwi Sahab who taught me the Quran on top of Namaaz would beat me down to submission if I don't recite the Quran properly. I was an obedient child at least, but he still beat me down if I made even one error in reciting The Quran wrong. All the Diacritical Marks. He taught me the Madinah Arabic Style when reading The Quran which is what I'm used to if I'm reading Arabic.

At least I've learned from my Maulwi Sahab how to read Arabic. Can't understand it though. Didn't receive the education for that afterwards.

But, you know how Life is sometimes. Some people are just mean. I should consider my case to be an isolated incident. My childhood traumas are only minor compared to why as a Muslim I'm considering either Agnosticism or Atheism.

Salaam again brother. Never loose hope with this concern. That 'Moulvi Shb' who is not at all close to being called a 'Moulvi shb' will get in return for what he did to you inshallah. 

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) promises the same in Surah Zilzal last verse:

99:8) And he who has done an atom's weight of evil shall see it.

 

On 1/13/2021 at 12:47 PM, Guest X__X said:

The whole concept of Eternality in Life after Death frightens me to the core. I as a Human Being along with the rest of the creations God created have limitations. We have an expiration date for when we are born and when we leave this temporary state of existence known as Life. No matter what decision God decides for me, be it eternal torture (Hell) or eternal bliss (Heaven) the fact that everything in that Life after Death becomes Eternal alone is frightening to me. So let me ask some puzzling questions that lead me to an existential and spiritual crisis,

This Fear is something I miss in myself. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you. Jazakallah. Just don't feel frightened. We humans have a nature/fitrah. When we see/hear/feel something mighty, it seems frightening to us. But at the same time, if we control that fear and move it into the right way, it will have positive effects inshallah.

On 1/13/2021 at 12:47 PM, Guest X__X said:

f our Human Bodies have limitations in terms of both Pleasure and Pain then does the experience of our Human Bodies transfer accordingly to our seemingly Eternal Soul? Don't our Eternal Soul feel the same 5 empirical senses of our Bodies when we act in this Life? If our bodies die, then would our Pleasure and Pain that we experienced throughout our temporary state of existence known as Life still be limited in our Eternal Soul? If it's going to be eternal then I can't comprehend my head around how that is a possibility? Some Muslims say your pain and pleasure would be magnified up to infinity in your Life after Death in either Hell or Heaven, but to me none of those options are appealing to me at all simply because such amount of Pleasure and Pain becomes meaningless to the point of not feeling anything anymore. Sure God, you're eternally torturing me and putting me in a state of pain and misery up to infinity in Hell. Sure God, you're eternally pleasuring me and putting me in a state of bliss and peace in Heaven. But, at what cost when the state of my soul being eternal makes me feel nothing simply because if we are currently Living in a world where Life is Temporary, then so is the Pleasure and Pain we experience ha. A world where pleasure and pain are eternal along with your self sounds meaningless to the point of not feeling anything anymore. No Pleasure. No Pain. Nothing. Just nothing. I feel nothing. I am nothing. I exist, but someday I'll die, become nothing and forgotten.

I'll still try to be open about the existence of God, but my Soul being Eternal frightens me because of how much limitations Human Beings experience in terms of Pleasure and Pain. I'm okay with the fact that when I'm dead, I'm nothing but bones and dust. If God wishes to resurrect me from the dead and decides that I go to either Heaven or Hell based on my actions and intentions so far in this Life it honestly wouldn't make a difference to me. Because the concept of everything being Eternal in Life after Death makes me feel neither Pleasure nor Pain.

Let us start over here, point by point:

1. Your body is limited in terms of Pleasure and Pain? Yes, it is.

2. Your soul has an impact of these pleasure and pain? Yes it has.

The question is, to what level?

Brother, the impact actually cannot be calculated. For example, when you through a stone in the sea, from the upper surface, the impact seems very low and limited while withing the bulk and if seen with a much closer look and with scientific instruments, it would then be realized that how deep the impact was on the sea from.just that stone. 

Consider your soul as the bulk of the sea and your body to be merelh the surface part. Your body will definitely feel the pain and pleasure to a limited extent but it's essence will be realized in your heart. For instance, your Fear about the perception of Heaven and hell. Alhumdulillah, don't you see that currently your body, your senses just feel it a little on heart. At max, you shiver by listening this. At max, you sweat maybe when you hear this (depends person to person). But this is just what is apparent from outside. What your soul feels to the core is much much deeper than this. And is actually inexpressible.

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) says, "One who recognizes his soul has recognized his lord ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى))". So, you can estimate how deep your soul is.

This is not actually a torture. This is how the fitrah/nature of a human being is. Human being respects the might, the greatness, the glory. He submits to power, this is real. So, the power of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is expressed in Quran to make a man wonder, frighten and consider submission. Is it torturing? No not at all. As an example, our parents shout at us, show there elderliness to us. A leader, a commander shows his greatness, his strictness to us so that we listen to him atleast out of his fear. Now, why it is always said to fear Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)? Because just like when we are kids, we don't know what is right or wrong for us so just in order to make us be obedient, sincere and nice our parents use force to a limited extent. Consider yourself as that child or even beneath that in front of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) who is above your father. More concerned for you, more loving, the only guide and at the same time powerful, mighty, glorious. Thus, fear of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is legit.

Brother, let me ask you a question. 

Let's say you are working (I donno but just suppose):

Now, your company boss said that he will promote you to a higher position if you work sincerely with focus and deliver the requirements on time or pre-time. And his promise is truth. Won't you work hard and sincerely to achieve that promotion? You definitely will. And anyone will. It's human nature.

On the flip side, if your company has a policy to eleminate you if you violate any policy or rule (Maybe, formal dress-code); then will you not be careful about that?

Why so? Because the warnings and rewards have an imminent response if acted accordingly. You imagine that reward. You imagine that punishment. You feel it. You see it from.your heart.

You don't see Jannah from your heart in front of you as a reward. You don't see hell from your heart in front of you as a punishment. The day you will start considering it like you consider your other works in life, you'll see it close to you. You will feel every verse of the Quran deep within you.

On 1/13/2021 at 12:47 PM, Guest X__X said:

Also, I don't care what Shaytan says if his goal throughout why he's misguiding Humanity away from the path of worshipping God is out of arrogance and him being a jealous bigot against Humans being the worst creation God created. Hence why God accepted his challenge and the rest is Abrahamic Theology. So are we Humans just guinea pigs or lab rats being tested by God to see where we end up? Heaven or Hell?

I don't know if I have reasons that are superior to the Shaytan, but I have reasons that are at least different unlike Shaytan.

No brother. We humans are neither pigs nor rams. Do understand that prior to the disobedience of Shaytan, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) already created Adam (عليه السلام). And he was not created for any other purpose but obedience. It was Shaytan who decided to trouble Adam (عليه السلام) and his progeny. So, our purpose is not to prove Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) right but be obedient to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

On 1/13/2021 at 2:11 PM, Guest X__X said:

So no to Shaytan. And no to God. Just leave me be or better yet cease me to Be if you've created me God. Cause I don't want to Be anymore. Be as in exist.

You are suffering from a spiritual crisis brother. It is right to say that you need a conversation. 

I see a sea of afflictions and pains behind your talks that you've seen throughout up until now that has broken you.

Will you talk??

I am sharing these two videos in support of my argument:

This is a fabulous video and might clear out some of your doubts:

This is another fabulous video for you brother:

 

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you and keep you safe from the calamities of this world.

I will pray for your guidance and if you want to talk we can make out a way.

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Guest X__X

I just want to say thanks to @313_Waiter and @Zainuu for your efforts to help me understand what I don't understand. I have watched the videos of both of yours that you recommend. It did clear some of my doubts. I especially watched "The Purpose of Life by Jeffry Lang" over and over because I couldn't believe what he extrapolated out of The Quran despite his position as a Christian Catholic born Atheist.

So let me understand this to hopefully mitigate my fear of the Eternality of The Life after Death. I have understood that no matter how much I take joy in the things I hold dear and no matter how much I take misery in the things I see through, it is all Temporary given the fact that Death co-exists in this world. Making everything, including myself mortal and perishable. But, despite that, what I'm beginning to understand is a purpose for what we as Human Beings should do. To worship and be obedient to God. Why and is that really it for why we exist? To form a relationship with Him and Yes as it seems.

To worship God is a big choice to make. So much so that your failures to live up to worshipping God or This Creative Force that is the cause of how everything came into being would determine your inevitable stay in Hell for all eternity or your stay in Heaven. I do have further concerns regarding this issue but, let's take it one step at a time.

Let me just discuss for this first post of mine what Jeffry Lang extrapolated out of the Quran on top of the likes of what he said would take for Human Beings to grow. I'll hopefully respond back soon with the later videos one step and post at a time cause this is too much for me to understand and I don't wish to rush my thinking here.

Humans have Intellect because they are Intelligent Creatures? True

Humans make Choices because they are Moral Creatures? True

Humans must Suffer because they will grow to be better people? Sad, but True.

All three of them are necessary for Humans to grow. I do agree that most if not ALL religions except Islam shares this view towards Suffering as something that is not to be viewed as a Good Thing. Suffering has viewed as either Salvation, Evil, or just something to deal with it. But, Islam takes the concept of Suffering on such a strangely positive level that most if not all people would find such a concept about this borderline controversial, mental insanity, and sheer lunacy. Nobody wants to Suffer. Yet Suffering is part of this temporary state of existence known as Life.

I'm beginning to understand what my crippling problem is based on those three criteria Jeffry Lang extrapolated out of The Quran for Humanity to grow in all aspects. Not just my lack of truly understanding the concept of Suffering, but my inability and strange sense of Fear to make Choices that would benefit me to further my relationship to understand God. We live in a world where anybody can be Misinformed about everything in Life. Thus, it would necessitate the line of reasoning that the Good things and ideals would appear to be Evil. While the Evil things and ideals would appear to be Good. Lies become Truths. Truths become Lies etc etc.

I'm afraid at this day and age to make Choices. I'm afraid of my Free Will. I view it as an abominable curse because I keep being drawn by the Satanic Urges. The magnetic forces of the Satanic Urges seems to be strong and when I act upon for whatever baffling mental gymnastic reasoning I feel disappointed and full of shame and regret. Meanwhile, The Angelic Urges don't seem to be strong within me in terms of magnetic force but when the urge shows up and I give it a chance to act upon it, I do feel a sense of peace and accomplishment that I want to cry but also in a state where I'm also happy as well.

What is wrong with me? Regardless, what would appear to be a curse in my eyes might be the greatest blessing ever given.

Life is full of contradictions. So much so that it is all one big giant Cyclical Fallacy. Life cannot be distinguished if it wasn't for the co-existence of Death. Similarly, Truth cannot be distinguished if it wasn't for the co-existence of Lies. Joy cannot be distinguished if it wasn't for the co-existence of Misery. Then, ultimately Good cannot be distinguished if it wasn't for the co-existence of Evil.

We live in a world where majority of Humanity would succumb to this line of reasoning that Life is not Black and White, but Grey. Living with the perspective of Black and White is viewed nowadays as an archaic and horrible view of Reality altogether that might breed Evil and Injustice if anybody at this day and age succumbs to this view. But, I am skeptical if this line of reasoning for viewing Life as Grey is better than the Black and White line of reasoning some people have in Life. Because if Life is Grey then people who do acts of Evil do it because it might breed Good someday and vice versa if other way around. For example, Being a Serial Killer (AKA Murderer) is ultimately evil based on the perspective of Black and White reasoning, but according to The Grey Area reasoning what if there's a Serial Killer that only targets people who are pedophiles, child abusers, and rapists all around. For a Serial Killer, he seems to have a sense of moral code of what he views as Evil, but neglects his own acts of Evil for the sake of what he feels and thinks that he's doing Good ridding the world from other terrible evil people? It seems that in this particular scenario, Evil has become Good? Still, it is pretty evil and I don't want this at all in this Life. Yet, Life is full of surprises and expectations that are unexpected. 

Some people in general are afraid to make Choices. Even the smallest and seemingly insignificant of choices can become the greatest ultimatum that would shape the course of your own destiny in Life.

For this last paragraph, I would like to leave with the perspective of Bruce Wayne from the Batman series. Bruce Wayne is a complicated man. A genius, a billionaire who owns a vast estate. However, after the death of his parents by the hands of The Joker at the age of 8 something in his mind snapped and he dedicated the rest of his life fighting crime as the Batman. Now I always wondered, why doesn't Bruce Wayne just kill The Joker who clearly murdered his parents in front of him at cold blood? Because if he did, then he would break his moral code most Batman fans know that is considered an ultimatum for him to live up to: Do Not Kill. And if he broke that moral code, he'll never come back to live up to it again which was a part of his sanity.

I'll hopefully come back soon to respond to the later videos down the line. This is a bit much so give me time and patience. I'll someday respond furthermore. Feel free to hopefully reply with what you think about this first post of mine. If I got some things wrong then please let me know. Cause I now realize that I have trouble knowing what is right and what is wrong.

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59 minutes ago, Guest X__X said:

I just want to say thanks to @313_Waiter and @Zainuu for your efforts to help me understand what I don't understand. I have watched the videos of both of yours that you recommend. It did clear some of my doubts. I especially watched "The Purpose of Life by Jeffry Lang" over and over because I couldn't believe what he extrapolated out of The Quran despite his position as a Christian Catholic born Atheist.

So let me understand this to hopefully mitigate my fear of the Eternality of The Life after Death. I have understood that no matter how much I take joy in the things I hold dear and no matter how much I take misery in the things I see through, it is all Temporary given the fact that Death co-exists in this world. Making everything, including myself mortal and perishable. But, despite that, what I'm beginning to understand is a purpose for what we as Human Beings should do. To worship and be obedient to God. Why and is that really it for why we exist? To form a relationship with Him and Yes as it seems.

To worship God is a big choice to make. So much so that your failures to live up to worshipping God or This Creative Force that is the cause of how everything came into being would determine your inevitable stay in Hell for all eternity or your stay in Heaven. I do have further concerns regarding this issue but, let's take it one step at a time.

Let me just discuss for this first post of mine what Jeffry Lang extrapolated out of the Quran on top of the likes of what he said would take for Human Beings to grow. I'll hopefully respond back soon with the later videos one step and post at a time cause this is too much for me to understand and I don't wish to rush my thinking here.

Humans have Intellect because they are Intelligent Creatures? True

Humans make Choices because they are Moral Creatures? True

Humans must Suffer because they will grow to be better people? Sad, but True.

All three of them are necessary for Humans to grow. I do agree that most if not ALL religions except Islam shares this view towards Suffering as something that is not to be viewed as a Good Thing. Suffering has viewed as either Salvation, Evil, or just something to deal with it. But, Islam takes the concept of Suffering on such a strangely positive level that most if not all people would find such a concept about this borderline controversial, mental insanity, and sheer lunacy. Nobody wants to Suffer. Yet Suffering is part of this temporary state of existence known as Life.

I'm beginning to understand what my crippling problem is based on those three criteria Jeffry Lang extrapolated out of The Quran for Humanity to grow in all aspects. Not just my lack of truly understanding the concept of Suffering, but my inability and strange sense of Fear to make Choices that would benefit me to further my relationship to understand God. We live in a world where anybody can be Misinformed about everything in Life. Thus, it would necessitate the line of reasoning that the Good things and ideals would appear to be Evil. While the Evil things and ideals would appear to be Good. Lies become Truths. Truths become Lies etc etc.

I'm afraid at this day and age to make Choices. I'm afraid of my Free Will. I view it as an abominable curse because I keep being drawn by the Satanic Urges. The magnetic forces of the Satanic Urges seems to be strong and when I act upon for whatever baffling mental gymnastic reasoning I feel disappointed and full of shame and regret. Meanwhile, The Angelic Urges don't seem to be strong within me in terms of magnetic force but when the urge shows up and I give it a chance to act upon it, I do feel a sense of peace and accomplishment that I want to cry but also in a state where I'm also happy as well.

What is wrong with me? Regardless, what would appear to be a curse in my eyes might be the greatest blessing ever given.

Life is full of contradictions. So much so that it is all one big giant Cyclical Fallacy. Life cannot be distinguished if it wasn't for the co-existence of Death. Similarly, Truth cannot be distinguished if it wasn't for the co-existence of Lies. Joy cannot be distinguished if it wasn't for the co-existence of Misery. Then, ultimately Good cannot be distinguished if it wasn't for the co-existence of Evil.

We live in a world where majority of Humanity would succumb to this line of reasoning that Life is not Black and White, but Grey. Living with the perspective of Black and White is viewed nowadays as an archaic and horrible view of Reality altogether that might breed Evil and Injustice if anybody at this day and age succumbs to this view. But, I am skeptical if this line of reasoning for viewing Life as Grey is better than the Black and White line of reasoning some people have in Life. Because if Life is Grey then people who do acts of Evil do it because it might breed Good someday and vice versa if other way around. For example, Being a Serial Killer (AKA Murderer) is ultimately evil based on the perspective of Black and White reasoning, but according to The Grey Area reasoning what if there's a Serial Killer that only targets people who are pedophiles, child abusers, and rapists all around. For a Serial Killer, he seems to have a sense of moral code of what he views as Evil, but neglects his own acts of Evil for the sake of what he feels and thinks that he's doing Good ridding the world from other terrible evil people? It seems that in this particular scenario, Evil has become Good? Still, it is pretty evil and I don't want this at all in this Life. Yet, Life is full of surprises and expectations that are unexpected. 

Some people in general are afraid to make Choices. Even the smallest and seemingly insignificant of choices can become the greatest ultimatum that would shape the course of your own destiny in Life.

For this last paragraph, I would like to leave with the perspective of Bruce Wayne from the Batman series. Bruce Wayne is a complicated man. A genius, a billionaire who owns a vast estate. However, after the death of his parents by the hands of The Joker at the age of 8 something in his mind snapped and he dedicated the rest of his life fighting crime as the Batman. Now I always wondered, why doesn't Bruce Wayne just kill The Joker who clearly murdered his parents in front of him at cold blood? Because if he did, then he would break his moral code most Batman fans know that is considered an ultimatum for him to live up to: Do Not Kill. And if he broke that moral code, he'll never come back to live up to it again which was a part of his sanity.

I'll hopefully come back soon to respond to the later videos down the line. This is a bit much so give me time and patience. I'll someday respond furthermore. Feel free to hopefully reply with what you think about this first post of mine. If I got some things wrong then please let me know. Cause I now realize that I have trouble knowing what is right and what is wrong.

Im my experience, your angelic force will grow with your piety, humility, and religiousness. The more of these things you're the more urge you get to do good things, the less and the opposite happens. 

The natural moral compass humans have in them is very basic and weak, and it can be easily effected and destroyed by the surrounding culture and society. A child born in a barbaric society will feel a little weird and sad when he sees the way his barbaric brothers treat people of other cultures, but that feelings gets quickly destroyed and he will start taking parts in those things too. No matter how much athiests fight and argue for this, humans just cannot have a moral compass  without religion.

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7 hours ago, Guest X__X said:

I just want to say thanks to @313_Waiter and @Zainuu for your efforts to help me understand what I don't understand. I have watched the videos of both of yours that you recommend. It did clear some of my doubts. I especially watched "The Purpose of Life by Jeffry Lang" over and over because I couldn't believe what he extrapolated out of The Quran despite his position as a Christian Catholic born Atheist

Alhamdulillah brother! I am glad it cleared some of your doubts.

 

7 hours ago, Guest X__X said:

 But, Islam takes the concept of Suffering on such a strangely positive level that most if not all people would find such a concept about this borderline controversial, mental insanity, and sheer lunacy

If we define positive and good as that which brings us closer to Allah (where Allah is al-Barr, The Good), then indeed if suffering has this effect then it is all good. Evil can then be defined as what distances us from this Pure Existence (in a non-physical and non-spirit sense).

Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (عليه السلام) says "I am amazed by the Muslim man (one who submits to God), Allah does not decree for him but that would be good for him. If he were cut by scissors, it would be good for him; & if he owned the east and the west, it would be good for him”.

It is said that the ‘urafa used to be sad when their trials and suffering escaped them, they saw it as an opportunity to connect to God. In the hadith of Unwan Basri (see below), Imam as-Sadiq (عليه السلام) says that the reality of servitude is to not see ownership for himself. You lost a car, it’s okay, it was God’s car that He entrusted to you! This was explained to me by this Sheikh (min 12:00).

Quote

...He (عليه السلام) said: ‘Reality of slavery has three strands:

Firstly, a slave does not see ownership for himself of the things that Allah has entrusted to him, because slaves do not possess ownership. Slaves see wealth as that of Allah and place it wherever He has commanded them to.

Secondly a slave does not plan his own affairs, being entirely occupied with what Allah, the Exalted has planned.

Thirdly, he is entirely occupied with what Allah, the Exalted, has commanded him to do and prohibited him from doing.

 

So if a slave does not see any ownership for himself of that which Allah has entrusted to him, it would be easy for him to spend only in the way that Allah, the Exalted, has commanded him to spend, and if a slave leaves the management of his self to his Manager then the afflictions of this world become easy on him, and if a slave occupies himself with what Allah, the Exalted, commanded him to do and prohibited him from doing he will not have the free time to engage in futile debate and boasting with people.

 

So if Allah honors the slave with these three, the world, Iblis and all creation would become low in the eyes of the slave and he would not yearn after this world, its wealth or personal pride. He would not seek what people have, for glory or superiority (amongst them) and would not leave his days to pass away in vain. This is the first stage of piety. Allah, the Blessed and Exalted, said:

 

‘(As for) that future abode, We assign it to those who have no desire to exalt themselves in the earth nor to make mischief and the good end is for those who guard (against evil)’(28:83).

 

I said: ‘O Abu Abdullah, advise me further on this matter. He (عليه السلام) said: ‘There are nine things to advise for those seeking the path to Allah, the Exalted and I ask Allah to guide you in putting this advice into practice. Three of them are with regards to self- asceticism, three of them are with regards to forbearance and three of them are with regards to knowledge. Maintain them and guard against taking them lightly.’’

 

Unwan said: ‘so I gave him my full attention, and he (عليه السلام) continued:

 

Regarding the self-asceticism, be wary of eating that which you do not crave for because this leads to stupidity and imbecility. Do not eat unless you are hungry and if you eat, eat that which is halal, mentioning the name of Allah, and remember the narration of the Messenger (S) where he says: ‘No human has filled a cavity worse than his stomach. Let him leave a third for his food, a third for his drink, and a third for the air he breathes.’

 

With regards to forbearance; if someone says to you ‘if you say one thing (of insult to me), you will hear ten things’ you should say to him: ‘if you say ten (insulting) things, you will not hear even one from me’. If someone swears at you, say to him: ‘if you are truthful in what you say then I ask Allah to forgive me, and if you are lying in what you say, then I ask Allah to forgive you’. Finally, if someone promises you obscene language then promise him advice and care.

 

With regards to knowledge, ask the scholars that which you do not know, and avoid asking them if it will cause embarrassment or trial. Be wary of acting on your own opinion and take precaution in all matters that you can find a way (for precaution). Avoid giving religious edicts just as you would avoid a lion, and do not make your neck a bridge for people. (Don’t carry the burden of people’s sins)

 

Now that I have advised you, you may leave O Abdullah! And don’t interrupt my rituals, for I am a man covetous regarding my spiritual self. May peace be upon the one who follows True Guidance’.’’

Source: Bihar Al-Anwar, vol.1 p.226

https://www.al-islam.org/articles/hadith-unwan-al-basri

 

7 hours ago, Guest X__X said:

I'm afraid at this day and age to make Choices. I'm afraid of my Free Will. I view it as an abominable curse because I keep being drawn by the Satanic Urges. The magnetic forces of the Satanic Urges seems to be strong and when I act upon for whatever baffling mental gymnastic reasoning I feel disappointed and full of shame and regret. Meanwhile, The Angelic Urges don't seem to be strong within me in terms of magnetic force but when the urge shows up and I give it a chance to act upon it, I do feel a sense of peace and accomplishment that I want to cry but also in a state where I'm also happy as well.

Don’t be afraid brother. First, we need to understand that the Satanic Urges do not really have power over us. We need to realise that ultimately our true self is not the thinker in our mind, and we need to disassociate ourselves from our urges and negative thoughts (as presented in this lecture series) so that we can be free of our nafs and allow His light to shine through us and transform us.

This is the Khutbah of Shaytan as per the Qur'an

Quote

When the matter is all over, Satan will say, ‘Indeed Allah made you a promise that was true and I [too] made you a promise, but I failed you. I had no authority over you, except that I called you and you responded to me. So do not blame me, but blame yourselves. I cannot respond to your distress calls, neither can you respond to my distress calls. Indeed I disavow your taking me for [Allah’s] partner aforetime. There is indeed a painful punishment for the wrongdoers.’ (14:22)

Despite Satan's whisperings we can use our free will, and Allah's guidance to excel even above Angels, and we can manifest more of Allah's attributes. 33:72 in the Qur’an says that the trust was given to the heavens and the earth and the mountains but they refused. Some interpret “trust” to mean free will, in which case this would be a mighty trust.

Please also note, that God multiplies our good deeds:

“The example of those who spend their wealth in the way of Allah is like a seed which grows seven spikes, in each spike is a hundred grains.” (2:261)

On the other hand, our bad deed are only recorded once. When we intend to do something good, it is already recorded as good. When we intend to do something bad but don’t end up doing it, it is not recorded as evil. Such is the mercy of Allah, a mercy that “encompasses all things” (7:156). Allah (azz) says:

”Say [that Allah declares,] ‘O My servants who have committed excesses against their own souls, do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Indeed Allah will forgive all sins. Indeed He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.” (39:53)

7 hours ago, Guest X__X said:

We live in a world where majority of Humanity would succumb to this line of reasoning that Life is not Black and White, but Grey. Living with the perspective of Black and White is viewed nowadays as an archaic and horrible view of Reality altogether that might breed Evil and Injustice if anybody at this day and age succumbs to this view. But, I am skeptical if this line of reasoning for viewing Life as Grey is better than the Black and White line of reasoning some people have in Life. Because if Life is Grey then people who do acts of Evil do it because it might breed Good someday and vice versa if other way around. For example, Being a Serial Killer (AKA Murderer) is ultimately evil based on the perspective of Black and White reasoning, but according to The Grey Area reasoning what if there's a Serial Killer that only targets people who are pedophiles, child abusers, and rapists all around. For a Serial Killer, he seems to have a sense of moral code of what he views as Evil, but neglects his own acts of Evil for the sake of what he feels and thinks that he's doing Good ridding the world from other terrible evil people? It seems that in this particular scenario, Evil has become Good? Still, it is pretty evil and I don't want this at all in this Life. Yet, Life is full of surprises and expectations that are unexpected. 

Indeed. The same principle can be applied to other sins. For example, when we tell lies, it is usually seen as evil. But what if we are protecting a Jew in our home and a Nazi comes to our door and asks us if we have a Jew inside. Wouldn’t it be better to just lie and protect the Jew? 
We do seem to have a moral compass which tells us what is right and wrong, though if a Moral Lawgiver (God) does not exist then all of this is simply subjective aesthetics (like choosing between chocolate ice-cream and vanilla ice-cream is the same as a serial killer saying death is good and the rest of humanity saying no it is wrong).

Hope my word salad made a little sense lol.
:ws:

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20 hours ago, Guest X__X said:

just want to say thanks to @313_Waiter and @Zainuu for your efforts to help me understand what I don't understand. I have watched the videos of both of yours that you recommend. It did clear some of my doubts. I especially watched "The Purpose of Life by Jeffry Lang" over and over because I couldn't believe what he extrapolated out of The Quran despite his position as a Christian Catholic born Atheist.

Alhumdulillah brother!! Yes you can take your time and focus on all what I sent.

20 hours ago, Guest X__X said:

To worship and be obedient to God. Why and is that really it for why we exist? To form a relationship with Him and Yes as it seems.

To form a relationship : Yes.

By Alone worship in a literal sense : No.

Below abstract is from Dua Kumayl:

Quote

My Lord! I beseech You in the name of Your Truth, Holiness, and the greatest of Your Attributes and Names, to make my times in the night and the day inhabited by Your remembrance, and joined to Your service, and to make my works acceptable to You, so that my works and litanies may all be a single litany, and my occupation with Your service everlasting.

So, this is what worship exactly means. Remembering Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in all are works. This is also the primary reason why we start every work through Bismillah.

This is a narration with respect to 'Bismillah':

This is from Al-Mizan by Allama Tabatabai (RA):

 

Quote

Ar-Ridha (عليه السلام) said in explanation of the divine words: In the name of Allãh:“It means: `I mark my soul with one of the marks of Allãh', and it is (His) worship.” He was asked: “What is the `mark'?” He said; “The brand.” (`Uyunu 'l-akhbar and Ma 'ant'l-akhbar).

The author says: This meaning emanates from the explanation given earlier that the preposition, “in", here in connotes beginning. As the servant marks his worship with thename of Allãh, he brands his soul — real doer of the worship— with one of the divine marks.

If you read the entire tafseer, you will see that saying just 'Bismillah hir rehman nir raheem', we are converting the work we do into a worship. 

21 hours ago, Guest X__X said:

my inability and strange sense of Fear to make Choices that would benefit me to further my relationship to understand God. We live in a world where anybody can be Misinformed about everything in Life.

True brother. But you can kill any such fear if you bring this up in action. The distinction of truth and false of something actually is understood in the best way through experience, through exposure. After this, comes the level of faith.

An Urdu sufi poet writes:

"Zahid ne mera Hasil e Imaañ nahi dekha,

Rukh per teri zulfoñ ko pareshaañ nahi dekha"

This is one of my fav couplets tbh. You understand urdu coz you are from Pak so I am not translating. But I will explain:

It means that :

One who daily worships (Zahid) (without understanding and exposure) doesn't knows how I (poet) earned my faith. I earned my faith in you (Allah ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى))) through recognition (Maarefah) of you when I saw your immense beauty that is beyond comparison. But he (Zahid) never saw that beauty. Or in simple words, 'never experienced Allah's might'.

In Islam, faith for the most of the part is practiced and not read or studied.

I think I am just filling up your mind a lot now.

Sorry brother. I will answer all but it is better for us to stay silent for now and give you some space to handle all what we are writing.

I, Inshallah, will respond to your queries according to what Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), has given me in terms of knowledge, once you put all of it after checking what has already been sent.

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On 1/13/2021 at 7:41 PM, Guest X__X said:

Well I have my reasons for why I'm posting as a guest. Because if my parents found out about what I've been doing with all this soul searching, online searching, schools of thought searching, and dealing with these spiritual and existential crisis their hearts wouldn't be able to take it. I'm neither Sunni nor Shia. So, out of respect I just do my own research and leave it up to God to decide where my fate lies. I just leave my parents be with what they believe in. It's just between me and God. No one else. But, at the end of the day I submitted that I'm already misguided and wrong. We live in an Age where anyone can be Misinformed about everything in Life so what do I know. What do you know? What does anyone know anymore? Even what I've posted might not be as certain since God can do whatever He wants and that's something incomprehensible. He can change and bend rules to His will all He wants despite the contradictions so who knows? So, I'm just confused all around. I should be punished in Hell for all eternity despite all my good deeds. But it won't matter to me since I'll just deal with the eternal damnation, pain, and misery. All the sins God is exposing upon me as I reek of shame, indignity, and regret. But even with all that, the eternal state of all such pain and torture is meaningless to me that all of that wouldn't make me feel anything anymore. Similarly, the same is also said if God decides to put me in Heaven instead.

I just want God to cease me to Be. I want nothing to do with any of His problems with Iblis The Shaytan being an arrogant jealous bigot against Human Beings and why He's using that reasoning as justification for why we Humans exist in the first place in this temporary state of existence known as Life. And before you ask, No I don't believe Shaytan as an ideal that any Free Will creation of God can succumb to. I consider Shaytan no different from Iblis, Lucifer, The Devil etc. They are all the same entity. Iblis = Shaytan. Lucifer = Shaytan. The Devil = Shaytan. Shaytan is a creation of God who challenged His authority to misguide Humanity away from worshipping Him out of pure arrogance and bigoted jealousy. He believes Jinns are the superior creation and not Humans. Therefore, anyone who follows the footsteps of Shaytan as a Creation of God are Evil and condemned to Hell for all eternity.

I'm not here to convince you to stop worshipping God. Do whatever makes sense to you in this Life. It's every creature for itself. A dog eat dog world out there.

I'm just saying that I'm beginning to just not care anymore which is a much different problem altogether that levels on existential and spiritual crisis.

So no to Shaytan. And no to God. Just leave me be or better yet cease me to Be if you've created me God. Cause I don't want to Be anymore. Be as in exist.

If there was no God i would still worship Him because worship is something that benefits us that works with our bodies souls minds , it’s not like ur worship is powering God it’s actually beneficial to u alone

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On 1/14/2021 at 1:18 AM, El Cid said:

There's this one hadith in which Imam Jafar(عليه السلام) looks into the future and weeps. His(عليه السلام) companions ask on the reason of crying. He(عليه السلام) says in the future, He's(عليه السلام) watching Muslims wake up with Imaan(faith) in their hearts and they lose it by nightfall and this saddens the Imam(عليه السلام)

That even happened during his time 

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Sorry for the late reply. In fact, I'm not exactly agnostic nor atheist. I do believe in God, though I'm not a Muslim due to significant differences with the dogmatic structure of religion itself, that regardless of its historical effectivity, it has no mechanism for self-revision and change (while social, technological and political progress take place in the world). Indeed, my reasons are mostly social and cultural, not theological, as @Mahdavist correctly pointed out. I see religion nowaday not only as an inefficient tool to build better societies, but as a barrier. This perception is evidently reinforced by the local communities and Muslims I have met. Most were uneducated people, selfish, greedy, treated women badly, treated queer people even worse, were politically passive, never had any moral debate (it was all just fiqh), justified terrible actions in the name of fiqh (cheating on their wives, sleeping with underage women, cruel body shaming, etc.). The low moral level that I have seen in all of then has reached a point in which religion is not only something not desirable in my eyes, but something worth warning against. Islam, as a religion, lacks proper inspiration. If in its origins it inspired half of the world (scientists, political leaders, intellectuals, etc), and convinced civilizations to unite under a banner and moral code, nowaday it inspires almost nothing valuable, at least in the West (but I would also bet it's even worse in the East when it puts ignorant idiots in power and protects systems of cruelty). Indeed, Islam and Quran seems to be a morally good moral code commanding people to do good, but in the other hand, it is also commonly used to justify systems of cruelty. This doesn't necessarily mean that Islam supports these systems of cruelty, but we can't move forward if we can't think "out of Islam". You can't change Islam from the inside, as it lacks any mechanism for self revision to begin with. And the amount of old ignorant men in power is too high all around the world. Maybe a new fresh inspirational approach to Islam that contemplates all of this could change things for the better, but right now, the benefits of Islam are significantly worse than its harms. I don't blame Islam as much as I blame the majority of Muslims.

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