Misconceptions about shias

[Mahenoor._]

Salam

Well, as we all know that the people from diff sects are not going to come to us and ask what's the diff betn you and us, they're simply gonna believe in what their community scholars will tell them. But in case if some decides to take help from the internet, so my attempt is for that. Anyone from anywhere can discuss what they think about shias n we'll try to clear that out and we shias ourselves should present some misconceptions we've heard. (I myself have experienced and was on the verge of getting tht misconceptions in my head so i just wanna give it a shot, if it helps even just a single being).

[Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi]

I have seen some people saying that Shias believe Ali (عليه السلام) was going to be a Nabi but Jibreal made mistake and gave it to Propeht Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) Astagfirullah.

I was wondering where did that come from?

[Sabrejet]

16 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

I have seen some people saying that Shias believe Ali (عليه السلام) was going to be a Nabi but Jibreal made mistake and gave it to Propeht Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) Astagfirullah.

I was wondering where did that come from?

There is a wikipedia article about an extinct shia sect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghurabiya

It seems they had this belief.

 

[Muslim2010]

One day i met a person from East Asia (probably from Indonesia) due to some work, i introduced me  as a muslim and a shia during the discussion. His face reflection identified  that he did not like it. I asked him what did he feel? He said"Shia has different quran". I opened the website "quran.com" from my computer and showed him that "this is my quran, that starts with first Sura Fateha and ends at last Sura An Nass,  Do you find any difference? from the version of Arabic text". He was quite surprised and said "No i do not have any problem but i listened it from the people".

Through this verification I was able to respond to one of the misconceptions circulated by extremists or people who do not like shia.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Muslim2010

[Mahenoor._]

4 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

I have seen some people saying that Shias believe Ali (عليه السلام) was going to be a Nabi but Jibreal made mistake and gave it to Propeht Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) Astagfirullah.

I was wondering where did that come from?

Yes ive also heard this. Allahu Akbar even we as shias do not even think of such things but look how satan encourages for spreading lies amd things which shias are completely unaware about.

Additionally, many believe that shias believe Imam Ali(عليه السلام) a prophet till date and thus they are not allowed to eat or drink anything provided by them"shia". Allahu Akbar 

[Mahenoor._]

 

17 minutes ago, Muslim2010 said:

"Shia has different quran".

Yes ive also heard this, not so far, i heard this from really closed once. I was like wait what, nay.

Although, not to mention that sunnis have changed meaning of some words in English Translation themselves and are spreading lies on us.(just saying, do not get offended) for instance, the wudhu part.

[Mahenoor._]

21 minutes ago, Muslim2010 said:

Through this verification I was able to respond to one of the misconceptions circulated by extremists or people who do not like shia.

Proud of you brother! May Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) reward you. 

It is very imp to unveil this stuff, as this is the only thing creating worst barrier for the people with reasoning. 

I wonder those who are already learned like given high status of sheikhs, how do they do this? Why do not they try to spread the TRUTH. 

[Muslim2010]

13 hours ago, Mahenoor._ said:

Although, not to mention that sunnis have changed meaning of some words in English Translation themselves and are spreading lies on us.(just saying, do not get offended) for instance, the wudhu part.

Sunni  have a different meaning in translation from the arabic text as suits to their practices. But the Arabic text is the same in quran whether a Shia or sunni has it, as it is protected by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) from changes.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Muslim2010

[Muslim2010]

13 hours ago, Mahenoor._ said:

I wonder those who are already learned like given high status of sheikhs, how do they do this? Why do not they try to spread the TRUTH. 

You may like to see about the misconceptions about Shia islam as detailed in the following links:

 https://themuslimvibe.com/faith-islam/in-practice/9-misconceptions-about-shia-muslims-that-need-to-stop

https://www.islamicity.org/2237/sunni-misconceptions-about-shias/

Scholars are working about the refutation of these misconceptions about shia.

wasalam

Edited January 10, 2021 by Muslim2010

[Mahenoor._]

4 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Nabi but Jibreal made mistake and gave it to Propeht Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) Astagfirullah.

To a greater extent,

Some think shias worship ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib(عليه السلام), and the moderates among shias worship Allah but do not believe in the message of the prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).). And shias CURSE the Archangel Gabriel for betraying what he was entrusted with. 

This is absolutely not correct!

(I read it in a book)

[Nightclaw]

10 minutes ago, Muslim2010 said:

Sunni  have a different meaning in translation from the arabic text as suits to their practices.

Translation? No. If you understand Arabic, there's no need to translate. No Shi'a on this website is capable of understanding the Qur'an so far. All they do is rely on translation, so I think this applies to them. None of them can explain the Qur'an linguistically. I've made several challenges and all they do is highlight the Arabic and give the translation in English. That's not what someone who understands something would do, wouldn't you agree?

11 minutes ago, Muslim2010 said:

But the Arabic text is the same in quran whether a Shia or sunni has it, as it is protected by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) from changes.

Agreed.

[Nightclaw]

18 minutes ago, Mahenoor._ said:

Although, not to mention that sunnis have changed meaning of some words in English Translation themselves and are spreading lies on us.(just saying, do not get offended) for instance, the wudhu part.

If they don't know what they're talking about and relying on translation rather than the actual linguistics of the Qur'an, then I think you should take what they say with a grain of salt or refer back to what our exegetes says.

[Muslim2010]

13 hours ago, Nightclaw said:

Agreed.

[Mahenoor._]

About MATAM

I heard this story, it goes like

They were the shias who killed Imam Hussain(عليه السلام) and then they realised what they've done and started making an apology by performing "matam", i.e. MATAM=MAAFI(FORGIVENESS)

I was like................

[Muslim2010]

13 hours ago, Nightclaw said:

No Shi'a on this website is capable of understanding the Qur'an so far. All they do is rely on translation, so I think this applies to them. None of them can explain the Qur'an linguistically. I've made several challenges and all they do is highlight the Arabic and give the translation in English. That's not what someone who understands something would do, wouldn't you agree?

The false allegations are rejected 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Muslim2010

[Nightclaw]

6 hours ago, Mahenoor._ said:

Well, as we all know that the people from diff sects are not going to come to us and ask what's the diff betn you and us, they're simply gonna believe in what their community scholars will tell them

This isn't necessarily true. I wasn't raised to be biased, but I was raised to be firm on something that can be no other way in actuality. I don't blind follow because from early on, i.e. Imam Malik, Hanbal, Shafi'i, and Ahmad, all state to not follow them if they made mistakes and refer back to the Qur'an and Sunnah. This is an indication of not to blind follow them and the rest of the scholars unanimously agree that blind following is only for the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him.

6 hours ago, Mahenoor._ said:

Anyone from anywhere can discuss what they think about shias n we'll try to clear that out and we shias ourselves should present some misconceptions we've heard.

I think you should do a video on this. I was thinking of doing the same. 

[Nightclaw]

2 minutes ago, Mahenoor._ said:

They were the shias who killed Imam Hussain(عليه السلام) and then they realised what they've done and started making an apology by performing "matam", i.e. MATAM=MAAFI(FORGIVENESS)

Not quite. They left him (about 1,000 odd men) while on his way to Yazid, which they regret. 

[Mahenoor._]

3 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

That's not what someone who understands something would do, wouldn't you agree?

Completely agreed!

4 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

Translation? No. If you understand Arabic, there's no need to translate.

Yes indeed, but as you mentioned that many don't know arabic, so the brother @Muslim2010tried to say this only(if im not wrong) that they completely rely on what their community scholars explain to them, i.e. without using any logic or reasoning. 

And of course those who misspell, no comments, Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows best.

[Nightclaw]

1 minute ago, Muslim2010 said:

The false acquisition are rejected 

I don't understand what you mean.

[Muslim2010]

13 hours ago, Mahenoor._ said:

About MATAM

I heard this story, it goes like

They were the shias who killed Imam Hussain(عليه السلام) and then they realised what they've done and started making an apology by performing "matam", i.e. MATAM=MAAFI(FORGIVENESS)

I was like................

It is responded in manner that as per historical evidences  yazeed and his army has killed Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) and his companions. Now come with us and we send lanat of the killers of imam Husain (عليه السلام). But they do not appear as the killers of Imam Hussain include the sons of most companions. 

[Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi]

46 minutes ago, Muslim2010 said:

One day i met a person from East Asia (probably from Indonesia) due to some work, i introduced me  as a muslim and a shia during the discussion. His face reflection identified  that he did not like it. I asked him what did he feel? He said"Shia has different quran". I opened the website "quran.com" from my computer and showed him that "this is my quran, that starts with first Sura Fateha and ends at last Sura An Nass,  Do you find any difference? from the version of Arabic text". He was quite surprised and said "No i do not have any problem but i listened it from the people".

Through this verification I was able to respond to one of the misconceptions circulated by extremists or people who do not like shia.

My friends often taunt me by saying you don't believe in current Quran or you have a different one.

So i show them narration of Ayesha saying verse was revealed in Kitab Allah and it isn't found today from Sahih Muslim 

[Nightclaw]

Just now, Mahenoor._ said:

Yes indeed, but as you mentioned that many don't know arabic, so the brother @Muslim2010tried to say this only(if im not wrong) that they completely rely on what their community scholars explain to them, i.e. without using any logic or reasoning. 

So then neither side should even give their opinions and try to argue based on ignorance. Nobody should be speaking about how "this means Imamate!" while not knowing the linguistics of the Qur'an, other than what is obvious (i.e. Say: He is Allah, the One and Unique). I can never find a person intelligent who argues on ignorance simply to support their beliefs.

[Nightclaw]

1 minute ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

So i show them narration of Ayesha saying verse was revealed in Kitab Allah and it isn't found today from Sahih Muslim 

Where?

[Muslim2010]

13 hours ago, Nightclaw said:

I don't understand what you mean.

Typing mistake, Allegations is the word

[Mahenoor._]

8 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

If they don't know what they're talking about and relying on translation rather than the actual linguistics of the Qur'an, then I think you should take what they say with a grain of salt or refer back to what our exegetes says.

Well brother, of course, we are not held responsible for others. But spreading the THE TRUTH and THE RELIGION OF ALLAH-ISLAM is something which falls into our duty as Muslim, as mo'meen.

P.s.: I personally have learnt arabic for this part! 

[Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi]

4 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

Where?

Here:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with, her) reported that it had been revealed in the Holy Qur'an that ten clear sucklings make the marriage unlawful, then it was abrogated (and substituted) by five sucklings and Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) died and it was before that time (found) in the Holy Qur'an (and recited by the Muslims).

حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ يَحْيَى، قَالَ قَرَأْتُ عَلَى مَالِكٍ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ أَبِي بَكْرٍ، عَنْ عَمْرَةَ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، أَنَّهَا قَالَتْ كَانَ فِيمَا أُنْزِلَ مِنَ الْقُرْآنِ عَشْرُ رَضَعَاتٍ مَعْلُومَاتٍ يُحَرِّمْنَ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ نُسِخْنَ بِخَمْسٍ مَعْلُومَاتٍ فَتُوُفِّيَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَهُنَّ فِيمَا يُقْرَأُ مِنَ الْقُرْآنِ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 1452 aIn-book reference : Book 17, Hadith 30USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 8, Hadith 3421

[Mahenoor._]

12 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

This isn't necessarily true. I wasn't raised to be biased, but I was raised to be firm on something that can be no other way in actuality. I don't blind follow because from early on, i.e. Imam Malik, Hanbal, Shafi'i, and Ahmad, all state to not follow them if they made mistakes and refer back to the Qur'an and Sunnah.

Good to know!

[Nightclaw]

1 minute ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Here:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with, her) reported that it had been revealed in the Holy Qur'an that ten clear sucklings make the marriage unlawful, then it was abrogated (and substituted) by five sucklings and Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) died and it was before that time (found) in the Holy Qur'an (and recited by the Muslims).

حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ يَحْيَى، قَالَ قَرَأْتُ عَلَى مَالِكٍ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ أَبِي بَكْرٍ، عَنْ عَمْرَةَ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، أَنَّهَا قَالَتْ كَانَ فِيمَا أُنْزِلَ مِنَ الْقُرْآنِ عَشْرُ رَضَعَاتٍ مَعْلُومَاتٍ يُحَرِّمْنَ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ نُسِخْنَ بِخَمْسٍ مَعْلُومَاتٍ فَتُوُفِّيَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَهُنَّ فِيمَا يُقْرَأُ مِنَ الْقُرْآنِ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 1452 aIn-book reference : Book 17, Hadith 30USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 8, Hadith 3421

Here.

[Mahenoor._]

12 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

This is an indication of not to blind follow them 

Indeed! Just think about this deeply.

 

14 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

the rest of the scholars unanimously agree that blind following is only for the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him.

Then what is the role of ahlulbayt(عليه السلام) according to you brother?

P.s.: im not saying to follow blindly any "saying" which just simply mentions that it is said by Rasool'allah(saww) or ahlulbayt(عليه السلام) without knowing whether the chain of narration is weak or strong, it really matters! Theres infact more research, i aint sure about rest of the process.

[Nightclaw]

6 minutes ago, Mahenoor._ said:

Well brother, of course, we are not held responsible for others. But spreading the THE TRUTH and THE RELIGION OF ALLAH-ISLAM is something which falls into our duty as Muslim, as mo'meen.

 

I agree.

6 minutes ago, Mahenoor._ said:

P.s.: I personally have learnt arabic for this part! 

So you know the Arabic grammar of the Qur'an? 

[Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi]

2 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

Here.

Waaaah!

Waaaaaaaaaaooo!

you yourself need to visit that link and re read article.

What you come up with is some scholars saying it has been said that it was abrogated later or prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) stopped its recitation which is totally against matn of hadith lolzzzz

Please bring a hadith, saheeh, that says Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) stopped people from reciting this verse.

Go ahead.

Even if it was abrogated, there are abrogated verses in Quran. It doesn't mean abrogated verse gets removed from Quran Mr.

[Mahenoor._]

16 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

Not quite. They left him (about 1,000 odd men) while on his way to Yazid, which they regret. 

Are you serious? Have you ever studied deeply, what exactly happened in Karbala with Imam Hussain(عليه السلام). And yeah not just this you should research on every single incident which occurred after the death of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (saww).

[Nightclaw]

Just now, Mahenoor._ said:

Indeed! Just think about this deeply.

Well, I have. 

1 minute ago, Mahenoor._ said:

Are you serious? Have you ever studied deeply, what exactly happened in Karbala with Imam Hussain(عليه السلام). And yeah not just this you should research on every single incident which occurred after the death of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (saww).

Yes?

[Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi]

7 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Here:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with, her) reported that it had been revealed in the Holy Qur'an that ten clear sucklings make the marriage unlawful, then it was abrogated (and substituted) by five sucklings and Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) died and it was before that time (found) in the Holy Qur'an (and recited by the Muslims).

حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ يَحْيَى، قَالَ قَرَأْتُ عَلَى مَالِكٍ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ أَبِي بَكْرٍ، عَنْ عَمْرَةَ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، أَنَّهَا قَالَتْ كَانَ فِيمَا أُنْزِلَ مِنَ الْقُرْآنِ عَشْرُ رَضَعَاتٍ مَعْلُومَاتٍ يُحَرِّمْنَ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ نُسِخْنَ بِخَمْسٍ مَعْلُومَاتٍ فَتُوُفِّيَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَهُنَّ فِيمَا يُقْرَأُ مِنَ الْقُرْآنِ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 1452 aIn-book reference : Book 17, Hadith 30USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 8, Hadith 3421

Ayesha clearly said:

That verse was revealed in Quran and recited till Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) died.

It clearly means it went missing after him (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

[Nightclaw]

4 minutes ago, Mahenoor._ said:

Then what is the role of ahlulbayt(عليه السلام) according to you brother?

Read our books. I don't like giving people these answers, because I know you don't care to know. You'd rather read to respond than understand. It's natural, but it shouldn't be common. Go and read our books.

5 minutes ago, Mahenoor._ said:

P.s.: im not saying to follow blindly any "saying" which just simply mentions that it is said by Rasool'allah(saww) or ahlulbayt(عليه السلام) without knowing whether the chain of narration is weak or strong, it really matters! Theres infact more research, i aint sure about rest of the process.

Your early texts have been manipulated, lost, and distorted as admitted by your own scholars. I'm not sure you can truly distinguish what's true and not with your sources alone, hence why you always need to prove your beliefs by our side.