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In the Name of God بسم الله

Tawassul - Authentication And exact meaning

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  • Advanced Member
8 hours ago, AStruggler said:

@Zainuu Salaam Brother, 

I haven't read this whole thread yet but interesting question. I have been thinking about this concept lately too.

This is my current understanding and position on Tawassul: 

  1. I believe that yes, tawassul is fine. I believe that we must the do it while having nothing but firm tawhid in our mind and heart.  We must obviously believe that we are asking the Ahle Bayth's help and they can only help us with the permission of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). With the special powers, grace, and permission that Allah has granted them.
  2. I am not qualified to do tafsir and nor am I making my own interpretation right now, but some others have posted those 2 ayahs already which may possibly be used to back up the concept: 5:35 and 4:64. 
  3. I see it as how we ask the doctor for a cure, ask the teacher for guidance, ask our parents for help, etc. Are we committing shirk? No, we're seeking help from the other creations of Allah with a "tawhidi" intention. We know ultimately, all these means are nothing but a manifestation of Allah's mercy and blessings upon us. I believe that Allah's sovereignty and mercy encompasses these intermediaries and extra blessed pathways to Him. Ultimately, I see tawassul as nothing but asking Allah for help. 
  4. As Muslims, this world and reality is a lot more for us than simply a material and only physically perceivable world. As Muslims, we already believe in unseen realities such as angels, Satan and his cronies, jinns, and other immaterial and hidden realities. Why is it so hard to believe that there are special servants of Allah, whom Allah Himself has specially chosen for viceregency and special tasks such as guarding His religion, who we may not be able to see, but who can see and help us when we reach out to them. 
  5. To respond to your specific question @Zainuu about the limits of who we can do tawassul with, well, as already mentioned, it is those who Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has given special permission. As for which figures are included in this permission, I actually haven't really looked into this matter but I have personal conviction that 14 masumeen are included for sure and others of the Ahle Bayth such as Hazrat Abbas and Bibi Zainab are included too. But for specifics, I would need to ask a scholar. Also, I think the verses 3:169-170 would be relevant here. 
  6. Lastly, I was just thinking, in Salaah and in the numerous Ziarah that we have, we are like directly talking to or greeting the Prophet and Ahle Bayth (a) at times. If they could not hear us, then are we speaking to the air? It would be futile to do such things in our special religious acts then, in my humble and potentially fallible opinion. Thus, if we establish that they can hear us, I don't see why we can't take it a step further and ask them to do xyz for us just like we ask our parents, obviously with tawhid in our hearts and minds. And these special servants of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) are more closer to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) than anyone of the likes of you and I can ever even imagine. So yeah, I believe it's a complex world and so calling it shirk to reach out to the unseen graces of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for help, could possibly even be seen as narrow-minded in a way. 

So yeah, this is my position right not but inshaAllah I may research the matter more. Also, on what you said about mazaars and dargahs and these places, I think some people do sometimes go overboard at these places. One thing is for sure, sujood is only for Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), regardless of intentions, as it is an act that is seen as the epitome of submission and worship.

So brother @Zainuu and also brothers @Mahdavist and @Sabrejet, what are your thoughts on my thoughts above lol^ Would you say my reasoning is flawed in anyway? Any criticisms or differences of opinion? Please express. 

Salaam brother,

Actually I don't have any problem with this. Most of my doubts are cleared. But you know as Brother@Mahdavist said, they should have a basis in the Quran or Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام). But it is a problem for brother @Mahdavist while more of a mystery for me. I need more knowedge. What are it's metaphysical and philosophical explanations. 

Let me remind. As per this thread, we have currently fulfilled it's two parts: authenticity and meaning. This is not a Shia/Sunni dialogue at all but rather the purpose is to bring about rich content on all related to tawassul.

You see there are many faiths in this world. Even within Islam there are many denominations which are literally indulged in shirk at times.

If you talk to a hindu, he will say (and it is true) that they don't have many gods but rather only one which is:

Nirvikaar, anaadhi, anupam, sarvdhaar. Sarveshvak, sarvyapak, sarvantaryaami. Ajar, amar, abhay. 

(Imagine all above as names of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in sanskrit)

If you will ask a reason for praying to the dieties.

They will say that they are handling the affairs of the universe. Also, about there practice, they will say that they are there medium to reach god. Even a stone is a medium for them to reach the batin (hidden).

It is tawassul for them, shirk for us.

So, we pray to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) pointing towards the Kaba because Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) ordered us to do so. We are in servitude of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Islam is all about obedience and servitude. That's the reason that behind a practice the words of Masoomeen becomes essential. 

Wasila is a way in every faith but the 'means' literally matters. This 'medium' varies. 

So, it is mysterious for me. And if limits are not there. People reach out to dargah and graves of peers and sayyids and seek tawassul from them. Shias as well as Sunnis. In reality Sunnis do it more.

I don't see problem in 'Ya Ali Madad'. But muslims have replaced the word 'Ali' by many names. 

 Again, at last I am not comparing faiths. But I am seeking for a much rich explanation. 

There is no certain question over here and so far the responses were extremely helpful. But it will go on.

Even I don't have content right now and I am doing research.

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  • Veteran Member
3 hours ago, Mahdavist said:


I would say that if these were really islamic teachings you would have reached there by starting with the thaqalayn, rather than having to somehow retrofit it through personal opinions, feelings and interpretations as @layman has done above.



I have no problem with other people wanted to say on the methods of holding to Qur'an and Ahlulbayt.  They want to follow traditional ways...that is ok.

As long as they are guided to the path to serve Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

While I in was in the US as a student, i woke up one day and they was a writing on my forearm...in Arabic (Believe in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and follow the path). 20 yrs later, i came to know that it was actually a hadith from Fatima Zahra (عليه السلام).  

I even went to Qom to study religion (early 80s), but the admistrator for madrasah hujjatiah advised me to continue study in the US.  While in the US, i was close to Persian and Lebanese speaking groups (pro Imam Khomeini and Hezbollah ) to understand Quran and Ahlulbayt.  We would sit in discussion group and sometimes, the learning sessions lasted for more than 10 hours.  These were on for years.  At the same time, attended rallies and burned US and Israeli flags.  We were very much anti Saudi Wahabbi since 1980.  And the same time finished my studies.

There were many experiences that i went through my life that make me believe Ahlulbayt are accessible.  How many times during critical situations, i was helped...  Witnessing these events firmed my belief.

I don't promote my approach to others, rather i would say follow the traditional ways that many prominent Ulamas (or Marjas) have shown.

There are many secrets in Islam from Ahlulbayts, some of these secrets may be shared to individuals (by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Will) to increase the person's belief to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  

If a person can understand and feel how Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) and his army made the sujud to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) during afternoon prayer in the field of Karbala while facing enemy and death...then he will understand what prayer is. He will understand how much " zulum to nafsi" he has done and how much repentance he need to do.  That requires tawassul and syafaat.

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On 1/8/2021 at 12:42 PM, Abu Nur said:

Thank you for making this topic. Insha'Allah we will benefit and come to good conclusion.

Yes indeed inshaallah, it's much interesting and was in my head from very long. As we both @Zainuu share the same region ik these kind of practices and completely got ur point but unfortunately i wasnt able to find the exact ans of it from the discussion yet. Inshaallah we'll get to know tht soon. I myself am trying to find answer to this.

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  • Advanced Member
On 1/9/2021 at 12:11 AM, Sabrejet said:

I'll contribute more to this topic when I find some more evidence. Specifically, a tradition of Imam Jafar ((عليه السلام)) involving Ayat 9:59.

I found it: this page contains it. I originally heard it in a majlis, so it took me time to find the source.

The reference is from Bihar ul Anwar Vol. 47 pg 240, where it was copied from Kanzul Fawaid.

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  • 3 months later...
  • Advanced Member
On 1/9/2021 at 11:38 AM, Zainuu said:

Even I don't have content right now and I am doing research.

Here was this video I came across:

Can the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) hear us



What is the meaning of the verse :

Surah Al Isra verse 79:

And some part of the night keep vigil for it as an additional prayer for you; maybe that your Lord will raise you up to a praised position.



What is a Praised Position?
As it is obvious from its apparent form, the position of the ‘highly praised one’ has got an extensive meaning which includes every type of high position and rank which is worthy and eligible for appraisal, though, certainly here, it refers to the outstanding and extraordinary place which has been attained by the Prophet (S), as a result of his nightly vigilance for worshipping and praying. As was said earlier, this rank, the Praised Position, according to the commentators, is widely
known to be the position of ‘the Great Intercession’ of the Prophet (S).
This comment has been introduced in numerous quotations as well. In ‘Ayyashi’s commentaries, we have it quoted from Imam Baqir (عليه السلام) or Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) who, commenting on the last sentence of verse 79 from the current Surah said:
“It is intercession.”
Some commentators have sought to infer this fact from the very meaning of the verse. They are of the opinion that the Qur’anic sentence: /‘as a ’an yab‘aaka/provides justification
as to the fact that such a position ‘will be accorded to you by Allah in the future’. This is a rank which will be the object of universal appreciation, for it will be of benefit to the whole people, (for the Qur’anic term /mahmūd/ ‘highly praised’, mentioned in the above sentence, refers to the absolute sense of the word and is not subject to any kind of conditions).
Moreover, praise and glory takes place in the case of a voluntary action, and that which embraces all of these worthy attributes, can be nothing else but the ‘universal intercession’ of the Prophet (S). (Al-Mizan, vol. 1, p. 178)
This is also probable that the ‘highly praised position’ is the utmost proximity towards the Lord, one of the consequences of which embraces the ‘Great Intercession’.
The addressee in this holy verse is apparently the Prophet (S), yet, from one point of view, one may generalize the verdict to include all those believing individuals who perform the Divine spiritual program of reciting the late-night prayers, saying they, too, will have a share of the ‘praised position’, and will find their way for proximity towards the Lord’s sanctuary as a result of and just to their depth of faith and their practices.
They will be able, then, to intercede and assist the wretched people with the same scale, for we know that every believer will enjoy this rank of intercession, by the leave of Allah, according to the amount of his faith, though the brilliant and utmost complete example of this verse is the very Prophet (S) himself.


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