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In the Name of God بسم الله

Reason behind alams?

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Shia Muslims in south Asia have a practice of keeping alams in their homes. Great respect is given to them, people touch and kiss them and believe making dua near them will make it accepted by god. I want to know how did the practice start, does it have any basis in religion, and do Muslims in other countries also follow it? 

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59 minutes ago, smma said:

Shia Muslims in south Asia have a practice of keeping alams in their homes. Great respect is given to them, people touch and kiss them and believe making dua near them will make it accepted by god. I want to know how did the practice start, does it have any basis in religion, and do Muslims in other countries also follow it? 

I am also interested to know this.

What you told is a very minor thing sister. But, practices go as far as keeping Tazia and home-made Zari. Also, the practice of decorating imambargah or keeping a small box sized imambargah at home if you don't have space.

With all due respect, I sense a lot of shirk sometimes.

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2 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

I am also interested to know this.

What you told is a very minor thing sister. But, practices go as far as keeping Tazia and home-made Zari. Also, the practice of decorating imambargah or keeping a small box sized imambargah at home if you don't have space.

With all due respect, I sense a lot of shirk sometimes.

In my home we have 4 alams , of imam mehdi(عليه السلام), bibi sakina(sa), hazrath Abbas(عليه السلام) and hazrath asghar(عليه السلام).

I never knew the exact reason why we have them, my mother just used to say if we make dua near them the ahlulbait will listen to us better. I also heard this story that is used to justify the practice, Allah had taken the wings of an angel for something it had done and banished him to a place. One day he say gibrael and some other angels flying somewhere and he asked them where they were going, they replied that imam Hussain had been born and they were going to make his ziyarat, he asked the angels to carry him with them to the imam. After arriving at the house, he went near the bed where the imam was lying, and his body touched the bed, as a result he got his wings back and could fly again. So shias here believe everything that has an association with the ahlulbait is holy in nature, just as the bed had given the angels shifa out of association with the imam, alams can too. I am not sure what to think of the practice, i was also taught to show them great respect so i don't want to be disrespectful to them.

P.S: im not a sister 

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There is an imambargah near my house built by the nizams (shia rulers), it has a giant alam of imam zainulabidineen (عليه السلام). The alam has a small chamber built into it which apparently has a piece of the chain that was used to tie the imam after Karbala. 

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Posted (edited)

Alams are a traditional sign of the Ahle Bayt. We keep them as symbols of our love and appreciation for the Ahle Bayt. My childhood home had a dargah inside it too: there were several Alams representing the different m'asoom and non-m'asoom Ahle Bayt. Never made dua to them, or talked to them. However, as a token of respect, we don't turn our backs to them.

My childhood home also had Ya Ali Madad written in Arabic over doors of all the bedrooms, drawing room, and dining rooms. Of course, like a lot of shias from the Indo-Pak region, the kufr-kufr-shirk-bidat brigade among the shia and non-shia kind of scared me, and for the majority of my life I simply disassociated myself from it all. Add zanjeer with blades to that list.

Contrary to popular belief, we aren't bigoted in our belief and are kind of flexible, even if it goes against the beliefs of our elders, and quite a few of us are willing to learn.

Anyways, I eventually found out, after years of research and discussion, that these practices do have a place in our religion, and I've embraced them; not because my elders said so, but because I myself see their value. These are our unique cultural ways of Tawalla and Azadari.

Anyways, let the kufr-kufr-shirk-brigade do their thing (senior, veteran members here included), and look into this issue yourself.. Shias from other cultures often like to make fun of the "backward beliefs and practices" of Indo-Pak shias and our "post-Safavid innovations". These shias are most often from the group of nations that had such jahils living among them 1400 hundred years ago, Allah had to send the best of His creation to knock some sense into them. Oh, and the worst caliphates with the most cursed rulers were from among them too. Just keep that in mind :)

Edit: no race is above the other. However, this is just a general message for those demographs that tend to bash shias in the subcontinent, since no one ever pointed it out before in these forums.

Edited by Sabrejet
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Reason behind alams is nothing but remembrance & respect. 

Remembrance of the Alam which Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) used to give to Mowla Ali (عليه السلام) in battles and which Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) gave to his brother Abbas ibn Ali (عليه السلام) in Karbala. 

It is considered as "flag of Islam" by us and as well as the flag of Imam of our time, may Allah hastens his arrival. If anyone want to revive his/her pledge to these holy personalities, he don't need to go to Karbala or any shrine. He can hold the alam & revive his pledge to the purified household, peace & blessings of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) be upon them.

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As far as I know. It comes from banners and flags. So Muslims would have a banner representing Islam. 

So eg Hz Abbas had a banner which likely had some link to Islam or specific colour

At sompoint the banners became representative of actual people.

From my experience excessive respect is shown to the alams.

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Why do people not try and find out what the Prophet (s) used to have on his flag or what was on the flag that was used at the battle of Karbala'? 

If people really want to link it back the ma'sumeen they should go down that road.

In my family they keep flags that say 'ya ghazi 'Abbas' (complete with the little hand symbol on top) and revere it as if it is holy. It isn't healthy behaviour.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

In my family they keep flags that say 'ya ghazi 'Abbas' (complete with the little hand symbol on top) and revere it as if it is holy. It isn't healthy behaviour.

In all likelihood, you are interpreting their healthy love and respect for a symbol of the Ahle Bayt as "revering it as if it is holy".

Suppose that we somehow do find out exactly what flag was used in the Battle of Karbala, right down to the shape, dimensions, color, material, and decorations. Now let's say that someone makes an exact replica and treat it with respect. Would you still object to that respect as "revering it as holy". Probably. Now that's unhealthy.

Even if the original alam itself was brought in front of Muslims today, some of them would still go: "but it's just a flag! Big deal!".

On a side note, it's next to impossible to know the appearance of the original flag, given that we don't even know what Zulfiqar looks like. Every Muslim in the world acknowledges the existence of that sword. Probably tens of thousands of people saw it with their own eyes. To this day, we still don't have a consensus on what it looked like.

.

 

 

Edited by Sabrejet
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22 hours ago, smma said:

In my home we have 4 alams , of imam mehdi(عليه السلام), bibi sakina(sa), hazrath Abbas(عليه السلام) and hazrath asghar(عليه السلام).

I never knew the exact reason why we have them, my mother just used to say if we make dua near them the ahlulbait will listen to us better. I also heard this story that is used to justify the practice, Allah had taken the wings of an angel for something it had done and banished him to a place. One day he say gibrael and some other angels flying somewhere and he asked them where they were going, they replied that imam Hussain had been born and they were going to make his ziyarat, he asked the angels to carry him with them to the imam. After arriving at the house, he went near the bed where the imam was lying, and his body touched the bed, as a result he got his wings back and could fly again. So shias here believe everything that has an association with the ahlulbait is holy in nature, just as the bed had given the angels shifa out of association with the imam, alams can too. I am not sure what to think of the practice, i was also taught to show them great respect so i don't want to be disrespectful to them.

P.S: im not a sister 

Salaam,

I have read all the posts and as I accept it is this:

1. Love and affection towards the Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) as love of Masumeen is the part of Faith. You can refer to battle of Khandaq and dofferent ahadith that say that the dhikr of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) is ibadat. In this category falls all the practices of zuljanah, tazia, Alam, Zari, Mehendi, jhula etc and various other things. We kiss them, we put them on our eyes like Hazrat Yaqub (عليه السلام) did with the cloth when he recognized that 'This is his Yusuf's cloth and he smelled his fragrance.' and various practices of love.

2. A symbolic meaning in order to remember the history. Because Karbala should be lived and not merely heard. This includes the chains, the barefoot walking, the wearing of black, not bathing on ashura, horse, alam, zari, amaari etc. (even camels sometimes). 

Apart from this, what I don't like and disassociate from Zanjeer, Qama, walking from below of the Tazia and Zari, touching the horse and supplicating. Supplicating through the tawassul or touch of any material thing at that moment. (Though I did it when I was a kid)

This is not right according to me to ask from a horse, amaari, tazia, Zari, jhula etc.

Apart from this, what I want to ask is that there are a plethora of stories about miracles related to this, we cannot deny all but what are the reasons behind this?

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Posted (edited)

@Zainuubrother I read your post about a discussion on tawassul on the other thread. It's a topic that requires some care to do it justice. We need to make a thread on it, combining strong (and eliminating weak) evidence from past threads, and sources from the Quran, our books, views of scholars and maraj'e. With some rather crucial exams coming up, I won't be able to contribute to it for a month or two.

If you want to do some research yourself on it in the meanwhile, here's a place to start: Sistani's fatwa.

Question: Is it right to say ya Ali madad?

Answer: There is no objection in it.

 

Edited by Sabrejet
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22 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

@Zainuubrother I read your post about a discussion on tawassul on the other thread. It's a topic that requires some care to do it justice. We need to make a thread on it, combining strong (and eliminating weak) evidence from past threads, and sources from the Quran, our books, views of scholars and maraj'e. With some rather crucial exams coming up, I won't be able to contribute to it for a month or two.

If you want to do some research yourself on it in the meanwhile, here's a place to start: Sistani's fatwa.

Question: Is it right to say ya Ali madad?

Answer: There is no objection in it.

 

A thread has no expiry brother. 

You can contribute whenever you see it correct.

May Allah bless you and increase your knowledge.

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On 1/6/2021 at 10:12 PM, smma said:

Shia Muslims in south Asia have a practice of keeping alams in their homes. Great respect is given to them, people touch and kiss them and believe making dua near them will make it accepted by god. I want to know how did the practice start, does it have any basis in religion, and do Muslims in other countries also follow it? 

Salam

Indeed, yes. Alam holds historic significance. There's a book on it i don't remember the name(ill let uh know if i find it), but it includes how alam is a part of islam. For glimpse, an alam was given during the time of Adam(عليه السلام) and then gradually it has passed through bani-adam to Rasool'allah(saww), it was with his grandfather, his grandfather gave it to Abu Talib(عليه السلام) and from him it was given to Rasool'allah(عليه السلام) and the rest is quite well known, that the same alam was given to Imam Ali(عليه السلام) in a battle and from Ali(عليه السلام) to Hassan(عليه السلام), Hussain(عليه السلام) and finally in The Battle of Karbala it was given to Abbas(عليه السلام) and you know the rest. I ain't sure about touching and kissing and making duas so no comment on that, but I'll like to know and I'm doing research, inshaallah I'll get all the amswers.

Jazakallah Khair 

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On 1/6/2021 at 11:15 PM, Zainuu said:

I am also interested to know this.

What you told is a very minor thing sister. But, practices go as far as keeping Tazia and home-made Zari. Also, the practice of decorating imambargah or keeping a small box sized imambargah at home if you don't have space.

With all due respect, I sense a lot of shirk sometimes.

You'll be glad that tazia doesn't have any significance in Islam at any point. I belong to the same place so yes i really do think the same as uh. But i agree for the part "decorating Imambargah" i do think it's good to do that.(for ex, so many muslims have a separate room just for prayers so it may play that role, personally id love to have such room)ik the story behind tazia, if uh wish i can share. 

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Posted (edited)

I think in Pakistan of all places the Shia should obey the Imam and practice dissimulation instead of doing the opposite by installing Alam and flag over their houses. Its like painting a big red target sign for terrorists and haters.

Edited by The Green Knight
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50 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

installing Alam and flag over their houses. Its like painting a big red target sign for terrorists and haters

That's the purpose infact. Some decades ago there was movement to mass murder shias in Pakistan(can't tell you the exact decade because my grandfather who told this to me has passed away). So basically, they said they will start marking the Shia houses and burn them, kill the residents etc. As an act of defiance the shias and their scholars announced that they will save the deobandis/wahabbis the trouble of marking the houses and put an alam on the house themselves so the killers will have an easier time finding them. It was during that time that saw hoisting of the highest, biggest alams over almost every Shia house. 

These lines of poetry refer to the same 

بتا رہا ہے گھر پہ علم کا لہرانا ،

مکین کوئی بھی ہو یہ مکان حسین کا ہے

(The Alam hoisted on the house is declaring, regardless of who lives inside the house belongs to Hussain)

We have had an alam in every house we have owned and will continue to do so inshallah. 

 

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14 minutes ago, starlight said:

That's the purpose infact. Some decades ago there was movement to mass murder shias in Pakistan(can't tell you the exact decade because my grandfather who told this to me has passed away). So basically, they said they will start marking the Shia houses and burn them, kill the residents etc. As an act of defiance the shias and their scholars announced that they will save the deobandis/wahabbis the trouble of marking the houses and put an alam on the house themselves so the killers will have an easier time finding them. It was during that time that saw hoisting of the highest, biggest alams over almost every Shia house. 

These lines of poetry refer to the same 

بتا رہا ہے گھر پہ علم کا لہرانا ،

مکین کوئی بھی ہو یہ مکان حسین کا ہے

(The Alam hoisted on the house is declaring, regardless of who lives inside the house belongs to Hussain)

We have had an alam in every house we have owned and will continue to do so inshallah. 

 

Alas, it is in open conflict with the instruction of Taqayya / Dissimulation. I did not write it. The Imams did.

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25 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

Alas, it is in open conflict with the instruction of Taqayya / Dissimulation. I did not write it. The Imams did.

Immediately escape to Finalnd then because shias lives are at risk here in Pakistan constantly, especially during Muharram for the time you are in Pakistan stop attending majalis too.

Wonder why Kumayl didn't do taqqiya when Hajjaaj ordered his execution. 

 

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Alams are a bold statement of Shias of minority regions (Ind, Pak, Afg etc.) of exercising our God given choice of disassociating ourselves from the King’s versions of Islam and having our Sunni brothers learn that there always is another path in Islam that doesn’t go through over the dead bodies of millions of mazloomeen over the ages. All they need to do is knock at the door of the house hoisting alam, and ask. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, starlight said:

Immediately escape to Finalnd then because shias lives are at risk here in Pakistan constantly, especially during Muharram for the time you are in Pakistan stop attending majalis too.

Wonder why Kumayl didn't do taqqiya when Hajjaaj ordered his execution. 

 

Actually the order of Taqayya is from Imam Ja'far (عليه السلام) and the extreme genocide by the likes of Hajjaj is the reason it was instructed. Some things we have to contemplate ourselves, the occupants of the pulpit risk their livelihoods to try and check these established cultural norms.

Edited by The Green Knight
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27 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

Some things we have to contemplate ourselves, the occupants of the pulpit risk their livelihoods to try and check these established cultural norms.

Sad but true. If authenticity became a fundamental criterion then a lot of popular speakers would be out of business.

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6 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

Actually the order of Taqayya is from Imam Ja'far (عليه السلام) and the extreme genocide by the likes of Hajjaj is the reason it was instructed. Some things we have to contemplate ourselves, the occupants of the pulpit risk their livelihoods to try and check these established cultural norms.

Still doesn't answer my question why people like Kumayl and Maisum didn't resort to this? 

I believe it is subjective. If one is scared,  under fear of losing one's life or property or finding it difficult to bear the societal pressure due to his faith he can practice it but if he isn't regardless of the outside circumstances, there is no need. Different people react differently to same set of circumstances. Some buckle more quickly under pressure,others don't.

There must have been shias who chose to hide their faith and others who had chosen not to. I don't think anyone believed hoisting alams was a religious obligation. 

6 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

the occupants of the pulpit risk their livelihoods to try and check these established cultural norms.

Not understood what you are saying here. What cultural norm? And what exactly is wrong with having cultural norms? This is something I have always failed to understand.As far as I know in our religion everything is permissible unless forbidden and Alams per se are not forbidden.On the contrary they have always been part of Islamic culture.All Shias, including those of Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Azerbaijan, Turkey, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, and Syria carry some form of alam or another in their Azadari processions. 

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8 minutes ago, starlight said:

Many Shias alive today, including those of Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Azerbaijan, Turkey, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, and Syria carry some form of alam or another in their Azadari processions.

Fixed. But one should not take religion from the public imho.

9 minutes ago, starlight said:

Still doesn't answer my question why people like Kumayl and Maisum didn't resort to this?

One reason may be that because the order of dissimulation was not given until later. Though it did have its root in Quran all along, the necessity came later. Still, I don't recognize the sunnah of those gentlemen over the solid logical concept of dissimulation given by Imam.

While on this page, I also do not find mention of Kumayl and Meethum having Alams over their houses, nor lighting lamps under it every thursday. Sorry.

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1 minute ago, The Green Knight said:

One reason may be that because the order of dissimulation was not given until later.

Ammar bin Yasir did taqqiyah(verbally left Islam) during the time of Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) when facing severe torture from the mushriks. Verse 16:106 refers to this. People these days are.....well snowflakes. 

 

8 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

, I also do not find mention of Kumayl and Meethum having Alams over their houses

Still doesn't make is forbidden,does it? 

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21 minutes ago, starlight said:

Alams per se are not forbidden.

I repeat, I believe the Pakistani Shia, of all, should obey the instruction of dissimulation, instead of hoisting Alams or black flags or using silly bumper stickers on their vehicles to give themselves away. Have we not lost enough people to realize that? It goes against a hukm of an Imam. How is it okay? When a person who does not practice dissimulation is murdered by nawasib don't you think its very likely that Allah will ask him why he did not practice dissimulation as ordered precisely to avoid such a thing? Is that imminent big risk worth it? The answer is quite clear for anyone being reasonable.

 

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1 minute ago, starlight said:

Ammar bin Yasir did taqqiyah(verbally left Islam) during the time of Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) when facing severe torture from the mushriks. Verse 16:106 refers to this. People these days are.....well snowflakes. 

 

Still doesn't make is forbidden,does it? 

I did not want to write this but all the Shia alive today who have Alams can all sit in one side of the scale and Ammar (رضي الله عنه) in the other and his side will be weightier before God. Most Shia in Pakistan are Shia by their tongues only and do the worst deeds. So please, do not use the example of Ammar, Meetham or Kumayl etc for any of us.

 

P.S.: Did Ammar have a Alam over his house or light a lamp under it like a hindu ? :p

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11 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

I did not want to write this but all the Shia alive today who have Alams can all sit in one

Why do you keep comparing the two? Where does it say those having alams on their houses cannot be of strong faith?? Have you been given a secret barometer?

13 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

So please, do not use the example of Ammar, Meetham or Kumayl etc for any of us.

You brought up taqqiyah, when I give you examples from history you reply with this????? Seriously?

 

14 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

Did Ammar have a Alam over his house or light a lamp under it like a hindu ? :p

Okay, I get it that you have an issue with Alam but Islam and Ayatullah Sistani don't have an objection with it so what you think is irrelevant.

Btw after Imam Ali(عليه السلام) pointed out the three to Maithum, he used to water the tree and go sit with it and offer prayers there. Some would have called it tree worshipping :p 

oops just remembered you don't want the examples of the companions of Imam Ali(عليه السلام)

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22 minutes ago, starlight said:

oops just remembered you don't want the examples of the companions of Imam Ali(عليه السلام)

Yes because they are at a level we do not comprehend nor we can get near. We are all garbage in comparison and our knowledge useless. Also Meetham was already foretold how he would die. It would be pointless for him to practice Taqayya. I offer nothing but reason. None of them used Alams. Why should I use one and disobey the Imams some more?

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@starlight I don't think the argument is about permissibility. We understand that anything that hasn't been clearly forbidden remains permissible. 

I believe what the brother is alluding to is the obsession and focus on man made modern day trends and rituals as opposed to the clear and well established teachings of the ma'soomeen (عليه السلام).

We have a mini crisis in our communities where the teachings of the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) and his progeny (عليه السلام) are either being side lined or completely abandoned by the masses in favor of modern day cultural trends.

The worst part is that instead of warning us against this imbalance, the average popular speaker on the pulpit is encouraging this and spending hours of roundabout, indirect arguments to try and suggest that all these acts are somehow perfectly in line with the Qur'an and the narrations (often taking great liberty with creative self interpretations of Quranic verses and sometimes attributing sayings or actions to the ma'soomeen which cannot be found in credible sources).

There are two approaches to this crisis. 

1. Defensive. Reject any claim that questions the status quo and boycott any scholar who dares to highlight these issues. The quickest way to do this is to question the beliefs of the one who dares to point out these issues (conspiracy theories help, such as suggesting that the individual is an external agent)

2. Corrective. Refer to the Qur'an and the Ahlulbayt and verify if we are acting accordingly. Revive the correct teachings and prioritize them over popular trends. 

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1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

I believe what the brother is alluding to is the obsession and focus on man made modern day trends and rituals as opposed to the clear and well established teachings of the ma'soomeen (عليه السلام).

Trends and rituals based on love of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and his Ahle Bayt. For people who grew up in the Azadari culture, it's easier to understand. In other cultures, where Azadari hasn't been able to flourish, it doesn't make sense.

 

3 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

Most Shia in Pakistan are Shia by their tongues only and do the worst deeds. So please, do not use the example of Ammar, Meetham or Kumayl etc for any of us.

Wide sweeping statement. I can do one too: most shias in Pakistan and India will instantly say "Labbaik Ya Imam e Zaman" during the call; those elsewhere will be frantically flipping through old tomes, wondering exactly what to do.

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6 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

most shias in Pakistan and India will instantly say "Labbaik Ya Imam e Zaman" during the call; those elsewhere will be frantically flipping through old tomes

Friend, that is simply untrue because in the hadiths of reappearance there is mention of armies of helpers rising from other areas like Khorasan and Shaam as well as their stories while our story is simply not in there nor is there a mention of us let alone an army of helpers rising from Hind or Sindh.

I am also a Pakistani. I also grew up in this "Azadari culture". I also live and move in a society of Shias who will fight over Alams and debate things in no need of debating. I have viewed our people with a magnifying glass and I only wish to correct us. I pray for us in every namaz. I have seen the Salasa cult rise up. I know about the Nusehri individuals and I know about the God fearing ones too. I know which Shia is how corrupt in their business and I know the honest ones too. I am like the nurse that checks up on patients every day. I oversee the monthly and yearly functions of an Imambargah and a mosque. I personally know the zakirs and molvis the country invites and pays for speaking on majalis. I employ them. I know in my community who uses religion for politics, for fame, or for pleasing Allah. I know quite enough to confidently write things about its matters and state. And I write them only for the betterment of this community. I can play the music that our people otherwise hate to face, I don't get paid like a zakir, so I can, and I will.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, The Green Knight said:

Friend, that is simply untrue because in the hadiths of reappearance there is mention of armies of helpers rising from other areas like Khorasan and Shaam as well as their stories while our story is simply not in there nor is there a mention of us let alone an army of helpers rising from Hind or Sindh.

The Call is one of the certain signs of his reappearance; the entire world will know that he has reappeared, wherever they are. My point was this: who do you think will more readily heed his call? Those who have been mourning Imam Hussain all their life? Or those who stand aside during Ashura processions, sipping tea and looking disapprovingly at all the "innovations" taking place?

Of course, this is just an absurd wide sweeping statement, just like the one that "most shias in Pakistan are only shia by tongue and do the worst possible deeds".

1 hour ago, The Green Knight said:

I personally know the zakirs and molvis the country invites and pays for speaking on majalis. I employ them. I know in my community who uses religion for politics, for fame, or for pleasing Allah. I know quite enough to confidently write things about its matters and state. And I write them only for the betterment of this community. I can play the music that our people otherwise hate to face, I don't get paid like a zakir, so I can, and I will.

Fair enough. Then again, I gather that you are attributing a lot of ills in the shia in general to dunya-parast zakirs. By ills, I assume you also mean a lot of Azadari traditions, such as alams. These traditions have not been declared haram by quite a few Grand Ayatollahs and responsible scholars. Quite a few of them even encourage them. So, why do certain people flinch at them?

Speaking of Imams not doing specific acts, here's something to think about: which Imam specifically said to use gold domes for their shrines, solid silver zareehs, and decorations of gems and precious stones? Not a single one. These shrines are in Iran and Iraq, and not in Multan and Uch Sharif. Ever wonder why a single Ayatollah hasn't taken action, or pointed this issue out? Their sustenance and livelihood doesn't depend on it does it?

Edited by Sabrejet
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4 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

My point was this: who do you think will more readily heed his call? Those who have been mourning Imam Hussain all their life? Or those who stand aside during Ashura processions, sipping tea and looking disapprovingly at all the "innovations" taking place?

If you actually look at the description of a Shi'a as described in famous narrations of our aimmah (عليه السلام) then it hardly has anything to do with what you have described above.

Without a doubt there are several narrations describing the 'aza of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام), but to limit the qualities of a believer to this one aspect alone is inconsistent with the descriptions we have received from the ma'soomeen (عليه السلام)

Furthermore to assume that there are only two camps (one who mourns and one who doesn't) is also inaccurate. 

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