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In the Name of God بسم الله

Reason behind alams?

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Guest Psychological Warfare

A man asked, why are they touching it. He was answered, you salute it we touch it. Man answered oh because this one is religious.

Blessed are those who raise the Standard of Abu al-Fadhl (Arabic: أَبُو ٱلْفَضْل‎) and Qamar Bani Hashim (Arabic: قَمَر بَنِي هَاشِم‎, lit. 'Moon of Banu Hashim').

This standard has carried us for 1400 years. 

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235052764-azadari-for-the-son-of-sayeda-fatima-az-zahrasa/?tab=comments#comment-3126678

Say Ya Ali. 

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1 hour ago, Guest Psychological Warfare said:

A man asked, why are they touching it. He was answered, you salute it we touch it. Man answered oh because this one is religious.

Blessed are those who raise the Standard of Abu al-Fadhl (Arabic: أَبُو ٱلْفَضْل‎) and Qamar Bani Hashim (Arabic: قَمَر بَنِي هَاشِم‎, lit. 'Moon of Banu Hashim').

This standard has carried us for 1400 years. 

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235052764-azadari-for-the-son-of-sayeda-fatima-az-zahrasa/?tab=comments#comment-3126678

Say Ya Ali. 

Prove that this has been a practice for 1400 years, interested to see your answer.

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2 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

If you actually look at the description of a Shi'a as described in famous narrations of our aimmah (عليه السلام) then it hardly has anything to do with what you have described above.

Without a doubt there are several narrations describing the 'aza of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام), but to limit the qualities of a believer to this one aspect alone is inconsistent with the descriptions we have received from the ma'soomeen (عليه السلام)

Furthermore to assume that there are only two camps (one who mourns and one who doesn't) is also inaccurate. 

Can you post those narrations, im curious.

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6 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

The Call is one of the certain signs of his reappearance; the entire world will know that he has reappeared, wherever they are. My point was this: who do you think will more readily heed his call? Those who have been mourning Imam Hussain all their life? Or those who stand aside during Ashura processions, sipping tea and looking disapprovingly at all the "innovations" taking place?

Haha, how expectedly am I being attempted to be coated as "an enemy of Azadari" now, someone who "stands aside", "sipping tea" (:coffee:). Astonishing assumption.

7 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

Grand Ayatollahs

With complete respect to them, even with all their efforts the need of reappearance becomes dire each day, doesn't it? I don't blame them. They have to deal with us. Ours is a nation which was absent or part of the problem when the door fell, when the Quran was raised on spears, in Kerbala, when Hassan (عليه السلام) was robbed and stabbed in the leg. Its actually a huge, rough mob with people of all kinds in it, of course also containing momineen, like pearls in the river sand. And also the worst villains like Ibn Muljim, ibn Ziyad, Shimar, Khawarij, 6ers, 7ers, fake Imams, British actors etc. Yes, even Ayatullahs are not perfect and can not save the religion.

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If people actually respected Imamate and believed in Wilayat then this discussion would have stayed at the Dissimulation concept, its application and would have stopped there. There would have been hadiths in favor of Alam, but there aren't so none were presented. In my eyes those were the weightiest argument against Alams, as explained repeatedly. Yet the messenger is being shot at and the message not heeded. How unfortunate. How typical. While personally I am the sort of a person who finds NO SHAME IN CORRECTION, as should everyone who is a believer. How else does a person ascend spiritually without adopting that attitude? If you could change my mind I would also hoist a flag and an Alam. Also light lamps under it, etc. Yes, that is how I have always been. And so should you. Otherwise its just tyranny.

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@The Green Knight I do know where you are coming from, and I'm not disagreeing with you completely. Shias in Pakistan haven't made it very easy on themselves; that whole treating Zakirs' word as Gospel, infiltration of Nusayri ideas, shahadat e silasa, replacing the salam with Ya Ali Madad (originally a Nizari tradition btw, not Twelver) etc

In addition, it doesn't help that we take wajibat and religious laws lightly compared to sunnis. It's sad to see that you'll see shia men here mostly clean shaven, while shia women tend to shun the hijab. Most of the drinkers I've known in my life have been shia (not mallangs; just not practicing, not even azadari).

That being said, one might say that it's often Indo-Pak shias who are on the receiving end of criticism and ridicule, and seldom any other nations, as if we are the only ones backwards somehow.

This often comes from Pakistanis themselves; kind of reminds me of how my dad idealises Germans and the French, while simultaneously bashing all things to do with Muslims (shias and sunnis) and their culture, especially Pakistanis. This is common amongst educated Pakistanis; you'll rarely see other nations heavily criticizing themselves, especially in multicultural environments.

 

I don't like it when some of our traditions are shunned on the basis of "the Quran/Prophet/Imam" didn't specifically say so. There is value in that approach. However, it's not the only valid approach.

I don't have a vested interest in protecting alams or azadari. After a long hiatus of being non practicing, I've only recently come back to Twelver Islam. I have researched a lot of these traditions myself using a couple of approaches:

1- the strictly bookish approach

2- the listening-to-different-scholars-and-comparing-different-fatawa approach

 

Allah knows that we all could use more of the first approach in our lives. However, using it as the only valid approach isn't something I personally agree with. Certain literalist sects in Islam have a similar concept, and look where has it lead them.

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On 1/9/2021 at 11:02 PM, Sabrejet said:

That being said, one might say that it's often Indo-Pak shias who are on the receiving end of criticism and ridicule, and seldom any other nations, as if we are the only ones backwards somehow.

I don't think it's purely a South Asian issue. It's a general issue among the masses regardless of their cultural background. Some specific points might be culture specific but the larger issue of external influences and practices creeping into religion and fundamentals being neglected seems to be a global problem.

On 1/9/2021 at 11:02 PM, Sabrejet said:

I have researched a lot of these traditions myself using a couple of approaches:

1- the strictly bookish approach

2- the listening-to-different-scholars-and-comparing-different-fatawa approach

I don't think the issue here is about books or fataawa. 

It all comes down to hadith al thaqalayn. Are we referring to the Qur'an and the Ahlulbayt or not? Are these the basis for our aqaid and amaal or not? 

On 1/9/2021 at 11:02 PM, Sabrejet said:

Certain literalist sects in Islam have a similar concept, and look where has it lead them.

The issue is not the concept but what one is using as a reference. Obviously if one abandons one of the two weighty things then they have not followed the instructions of the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم))

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Early Islam, Sunnah of Muhammad Al- Mustafa ( Peace be upon him and his pure Progeny) 

Quote

On the day (of the battle) of Khaibar the Prophet (ﷺ) said,

"Tomorrow I will give the flag to somebody who will be given victory (by Allah) and who loves Allah and His Apostle and is loved by Allah and His Apostle." So, the people wondered all that night as to who would receive the flag and in the morning everyone hoped that he would be that person.

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) asked, "Where is `Ali?"

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/56/218

People did realize the Significance of The Flag. They were up ALL Night in anticipation of this Blessing. 

I realize it is not a easy conversation when the kids of Shia of Someone else see the Flag or the Zulfiqar(Zulfaqar (Arabic: ذُو ٱلْفَقَار‎, Ḏū-l-Faqār, IPA: [ðu‿l.fa.qaːr]), also spelled Zu al-Faqar, Zulfiqar, Dhu al-Faqar, Dhulfaqar or Dhulfiqar, is the sword of Ali ibn Abi Talib. ) on the Flag or miniature version on the desks or in homes or see people wearing it around heir necks(necklace).  It all leads them to recognize certain qualities that shia of others would rather not have them ask or know about. Same is true of procession and matam people see and ask and shia of others rather not have these things happen. 

Shia of Mawla Ali(عليه السلام) know the reasons for these things and understand why we do what we do, and this notion of did the imam do it. well they did a lot of things like ofr the Aza but I don't see the same people involved in those so honestly its kind of diabolical to even use this rebuttal. Start with the attitude, having a Khawarij like attitude just gives it away. These simpletons who prayed and recited 24/7 could not even understand  or had the foresight /intellect that the Qur'an was raised Not at the begining of the War rather at the time of their utter defeat so their intents were not pure. 

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1 hour ago, Guest Psychological Warfare said:

Shia of Mawla Ali(عليه السلام) know the reasons for these things and understand why we do what we do, and this notion of did the imam do it.

You say this, yet the original followers and companions of the aimmah (عليه السلام) were not known for most of the modern day trends you are referring to. 

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Muhammad Al-Mustafa (peace be upon him and his pure progeny) did not do many thing in Mecca. Do you know the reason why? 

Secondly, 

A third hadith is from the Present Imam, Muhammad al-Mahdi, peace be upon him, who said in a reply to Ishaq ibn Ya'qub: "As far as newly occurring circumstances are concerned, you should turn (for guidance) to the narrators of our ahadith, for they are my proof over you just as I am Allah's proof."6

If there is a basis for something, under new circumstances and environment you can so things that are not impermissible. Take that Concept and apply it to Azadari and its organic growth in different communities and cultures and you will get the gist of why some have a hard time understanding the evolution based on primary Concepts. 

 

"The following excerpt from the last will and testament of the Late Ayatullah Ruhullah Khumayni (A.R.) is most touching and relevant:

The memory of this great epic event (Ashura) must be kept alive. Remember, the cries of damnation and all the curses that are rightfully raised against the cruelty of the Bani Umayyayah caliphs towards the Holy Imams, are reflected in the heroic protests against cruel despots by the nations through the centuries. It is the perpetuation of such protests that shatter oppression and cruelty.

It is necessary that the crimes of the tyrants in each age and era be indicated in the cries of lamentation and in the recitals of elegies held for the Holy Imams."

Where ever the Shiahs have gone they have taken with them the cultural forms of aza’ al-Husayn as practised in their country of origin."

https://www.al-islam.org/articles/history-and-philosophy-aza-imam-husayn-mulla-bashir-rahim

In the end. 

If someone still does not understand it, you can stay away, not obligatory for you to be involved if you can't comprehend. Do , what you do comprehend at this stage and its is a learning that last a lifetime. Don't stress yourself and others. Internet ( the Land of make believe) the operatives here may not be who they claim to be so refer to Nagaf/Qum or your local person in your Mosque or the Scholars come to your community to recite Majlis. Its not like you will not get the knowledge need to have it today, while you ar eon the internet, have patience and get the facts from a person you can verify. 

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22 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

Prove that this has been a practice for 1400 years, interested to see your answer.

Although your question was not directly answered, it looks like it has been acknowledged in the above post that this is a new practice which doesn't date back to the aimmah (عليه السلام) or their followers/companions. 

It took a few steps, but it looks like we have reached a common conclusion on this, if nothing else. 

As I have mentioned in previous threads regarding modern day popular practices, my only objection is when people pretend that it comes from the Qur'an or the Ahlulbayt.

They are free to practice what they like as far as I'm concerned, I just ask for honesty in terms of the origins of newly invented practices. 

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4 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Although your question was not directly answered, it looks like it has been acknowledged in the above post that this is a new practice which doesn't date back to the aimmah (عليه السلام) or their followers/companions. 

It took a few steps, but it looks like we have reached a common conclusion on this, if nothing else. 

As I have mentioned in previous threads regarding modern day popular practices, my only objection is when people pretend that it comes from the Qur'an or the Ahlulbayt.

They are free to practice what they like as far as I'm concerned, I just ask for honesty in terms of the origins of newly invented practices. 

Are you a Literalist? 

Quote

This standard has carried us for 1400 years. 

I let the question go, but now that you insist, Do you even understand what this even means that someone should ask me to very it? Kindly, read is it a statement of material fact that needs to be proven . Just read in a literal way to get the meaning. 

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17 minutes ago, Guest Psychological Warfare said:

I let the question go, but now that you insist, Do you even understand what this even means that someone should ask me to very it? Kindly, read is it a statement of material fact that needs to be proven . Just read in a literal way to get the meaning. 

I'm not sure where the disagreement is? I think everyone agrees here that 1400 years ago the aimmah (عليه السلام) and their followers weren't putting up and decorating, kissing, touching silver hands with their names written on them? 

The OP wanted to know where this practice originated. Personally I don't know who came up with the idea first, only that it hasn't been traced back to the aimmah (عليه السلام) or their students

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12 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

I'm not sure where the disagreement is? I think everyone agrees here that 1400 years ago the aimmah (عليه السلام) and their followers weren't putting up and decorating, kissing, touching silver hands with their names written on them? 

Don't read it in a Literal manner or we will never ever see and end to this conversation. 

here 

Quote

On the day (of the battle) of Khaibar the Prophet (ﷺ) said,

"Tomorrow I will give the flag to somebody who will be given victory (by Allah) and who loves Allah and His Apostle and is loved by Allah and His Apostle." So, the people wondered all that night as to who would receive the flag and in the morning everyone hoped that he would be that person.

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) asked, "Where is `Ali?"

"https://sunnah.com/bukhari/56/218

Now read this The Flag was carried in Karbala by قَمَر بَنِي هَاشِم‎, lit. 'Moon of Banu Hashim

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235052764-azadari-for-the-son-of-sayeda-fatima-az-zahrasa/?tab=comments#comment-3126710

It has been appx 1400 years. This Flag was carried in a battle against Iblis. And Iblis can't see it in our hand (s) raised up high. 

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4 minutes ago, Guest Psychological Warfare said:

 

It has been appx 1400 years. This Flag was carried in a battle against Iblis. And Iblis can't see it in our hand (s) raised up high. 

I understand the analogy you're trying to make, it's not that complicated. 

The problem is that your narrative has a big gap in it which is basically the period starting from karbala until the ghaybah of imam mahdi (عليه السلام) where we don't have any trace of such practices. 

I can understand that these artefacts that you brothers like to put up in your homes and hussainiyaat are inspired (at least today even if the origins might lie elsewhere) from the banner of islam (for some reason completely redesigned into something new altogether).

However what is also clear is that this is something that someone came up with much later than the times of our aimmah (عليه السلام).  

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Here, looks like a first recorded events- does not mean that these did not happen at a smaller scale or similar scale - maybe they they did not get the press or coverage or the conditions were such that they didn't get or were allowed to be covered or people didn't think that it was important to record it .....

Quote

In 352 hijri, the first Muharram procession was taken out in Baghdad by then Abbasid ruler Mu’tazz Daulah. Almost 11 years later, on the occasion of Arbaeen (the fortieth day after Ashura), a historic procession was taken out from Baghdad to Karbala.

In 423 hijri, first zuljanah procession was taken out in Kufa by the members of Banu Assad clan. Many similar processions were later taken out in Baghdad, Iran and India.

https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/427632/Karbala-to-Kashmir-Brief-history-of-Azadari

Now the question is did this happen- did the imam(عليه السلام) do it. You have to look at history and see what were the conditions and if they did get a chance they must have worked on a priority basis ...

Now, the usual question, is did someone raise the Flag and when. Why do I need to really know this ? Is it something unislamic, I see the value in doing it and it serves a purpose and that is sufficient for me. Unless i am very sensitive and self conscious and have an image issue that i need to justify what i do the the Salaffi/Khawarij circle that i want to be part of and need to be accepted. or get married to . They have really worked on mind and plus if I live in a secular or west and see it as what will 'They " think , so let me find and excuse to not be part of it. As i am ashamed to part of it. I will be looking to any excuse, and did they do it will fit the bill. I don't have to be part of it and justify my not been par to these time consuming events as i have go to be someone and something and don't have time for it. These days they will leave their parents and siblings for their secular aims and goals. 

Sorry, I don't see an issue as i do understand the evolution of Aza as the time went on and things relaxed and we were able to do things to keep it live. 

Look if you don't want to touch it or kiss it. These are acts of reverence and You do kiss or touch the Black stone right? its allowed , but why? what is the reason behind it . Nothing wrong in touching. Anyway- secular world tkeeps their flag in their houses they do touch/kiss and Salute the Flag- respect their flags and soldiers die protecting it. Our soldiers do the same as it is attacked watch the first link posted on this page. We need to have these people understand that fact that if you decide to hold it / raised it - it can never ever go down, even at the cost of your life. So, western guys you can't understand touch and kiss even though if on Hajj you will do it to the black stone. Just Salute it and don't turn your back towards it ( its for runners/who abandon ) 

But you nice ammal, fiqh guys just relax and do your battles in your domain. Arm and the civilians sometimes can;t understand each other and their respective functions and goals. 

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1 hour ago, Guest Psychological Warfare said:

I see the value in doing it and it serves a purpose and that is sufficient for me.

That's fine, as I said you can feel free to do what you like, regardless of whether it came from the Umayyads, the Abbasids or anyone else. 

As long as it's clear to everyone that this didn't come from our aimmah (عليه السلام) I don't see any issue. 

Those who want to follow the sunnah of the ma'soomeen (عليه السلام) will continue to do so inshaAllah.

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38 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

That's fine, as I said you can feel free to do what you like, regardless of whether it came from the Umayyads, the Abbasids or anyone else. 

As long as it's clear to everyone that this didn't come from our aimmah (عليه السلام) I don't see any issue. 

Those who want to follow the sunnah of the ma'soomeen (عليه السلام) will continue to do so inshaAllah.

Be careful with this life of defense, which has been answered for the people with Wisdom. . It will some day lead you to abandon your religion. If you don't have insight and fall for it. 

“Khawarij raised the slogan "rule of Allah" and said that Ali Ibn Abi Talib should not be the ruler. They used to say, لاٰحُکْمَ اِلاَّللّٰہ‘ - Governing is the right of God only. In response Commander of the Faithful used to say, 5کَلَمِۃُ حَقٍّ يُرٰادُ بِھَاالْبٰاطِل - What they are saying is correct but their purpose is evil.

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4 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

They are free to practice what they like as far as I'm concerned, I just ask for honesty in terms of the origins of newly invented practices. 

Free? A momin is all but free to follow his own choice. If the order of Dissimulation was unclear or inapplicable I would have also raised a flag and Alam over my house. I might have also used a Shia bumper sticker, as pretentious as they are. If the events of Kerbala alone were not sad enough or forgettable or if I could find anything good in Nohas sung to the tunes of Indian films, I would also play them on an amplifier for whatever reason. But there are so many most authentic and most important changes and deeds I need to adopt and practice instead of these cultural practices the common men consider to be worship. How can I blame Umar for introducing innovations and cite the verse of "perfected your religion for you" that came before him and yet follow innovation myself? That would be very wrong.

16 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

That being said, one might say that it's often Indo-Pak shias who are on the receiving end of criticism and ridicule, and seldom any other nations, as if we are the only ones backwards somehow.

God knows how much I ache for my people, decade after decade, and it is from this agonizing concern that my words stem from. To ridicule or gloat on our condition would be purely Satanic and unthinkable for anyone seeking the pleasure of Allah or salvation for themselves. I feel annoyed at myself for my concerns also because it seems to be a lost cause. Yet I try anyway by the imperative nature of Amr bil Ma'roof wa Nuhyi Anil Munkar (to enjoin the good and stop the bad). And this criticism, over the internet or among people, is only one of the things that I do to that end. The problem I see at my end in this is that my methods are crude.

I wish we were ahead of the curve. I wish we had more than just 1 of the 313. I wish there was more mention of Indopak in the hadiths regarding reappearance. Our individuals are so capable, like Muhammad Ali Jinnah, yet the mob has such deep rooted problems. Our non-Shia comrades in the region also have big problems that we share with them. Corruption and dishonesty for instance. How will our generations remain believing if people feed their children haraam? We are headed into great calamities which will be brought about by our own hands if we do not fix ourselves. This flag and Alam issue is peanuts in comparison to the issues needing to be corrected that I see. Right now, we see the Hazara have been attacked so badly again. ISIS has finally taken roots here, thanks to our politicians and incompetent officials. As for dissimulation I don't understand why it is difficult to observe its benefit.

And the problem with the murderers of Shia is that they always target the finest among Shia, the most capable, the proper, the practicing, the active. Those imaginable to be helpers of the Imam (عليه السلام) the awaited. Somehow they don't target people who would not be as much missed, like the hashish smoking mallangs or the deviants fanning the flames of sectarianism from this "side". Instead they go for what are the columns and beams supporting the community.

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10 hours ago, Guest Psychological Warfare said:

Be careful with this life of defense, which has been answered for the people with Wisdom. . It will some day lead you to abandon your religion. If you don't have insight and fall for it. 

The line of defense you are referring to is the famous hadith al thaqalayn. 

According to you it leads to abandoning the religion, according to the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) we cannot go astray as long as we follow these two weighty things.

I appreciate your words of advice but I will go with what the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) has said, inshaAllah.

8 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

Free? A momin is all but free to follow his own choice.

I agree but if people have abandoned the thaqalayn anyway, and preferred to promote their own practices, as a minimum I ask that they are transparent about it so that others don't get misled. 

We cannot force anyone to follow the aimmah (عليه السلام), but we can hopefully save innocent souls from deviation by informing them on what is from the religion and what isn't. 

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15 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

They are free to practice what they like as far as I'm concerned, I just ask for honesty in terms of the origins of newly invented practices. 

I don't see if anyone has claimed that these practices were actually started by Aimmah (عليه السلام). So, this should not be even a question.

Secondly, there are many practices done by west and thed east together which are popular but have no background from ahlulbayt (عليه السلام).

As an example, 'The Arbaeen Walk' from Najaf to Karbala.

You can see thousands of people, who might disagree with Alam or the other practices, walking alongside.

Has 'Arbaeen Walk' any history?? Who amongst the Aimmah (عليه السلام) have ordered this or practiced this?? If I am not wrong it's just for remembrance. Same goes with all these acts.

Just like the guest brother said that this is not fiqh, neither it is obligatory. It is just love of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام). 

And Love of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) is a part of faith (as written in narrations). This is the only way we can relate these rituals with our faith.

Yes, I would definitely agree with you and all people here and advocate to stop such practices if they clash with the fundamentals.

Like I see shias who don't pray at all but they are so much into 'love of Ahlulbayt (AS)'. Like sisters who don't do hijab in anyway but they are soooo much in love of Hazrat Fatima (عليه السلام). And they cry on Hazrat Zainab (عليه السلام). Then, as brothers pointed out Taqiyya vs raising Alam in Pakistan. Well, I would prefer Taqiyya if it's really clashing.

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1 hour ago, Zainuu said:

I don't see if anyone has claimed that these practices were actually started by Aimmah (عليه السلام). So, this should not be even a question.

I would have thought so as well, which is why I was surprised to see attempted refutations of this point. 

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On 1/11/2021 at 12:43 AM, Mahdavist said:

The line of defense you are referring to is the famous hadith al thaqalayn. 

According to you it leads to abandoning the religion, according to the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) we cannot go astray as long as we follow these two weighty things.

I appreciate your words of advice but I will go with what the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) has said, inshaAllah.

I agree but if people have abandoned the thaqalayn anyway, and preferred to promote their own practices, as a minimum I ask that they are transparent about it so that others don't get misled. 

We cannot force anyone to follow the aimmah (عليه السلام), but we can hopefully save innocent souls from deviation by informing them on what is from the religion and what isn't. 

Now 

Quote

I don't think the argument is about permissibility. We understand that anything that hasn't been clearly forbidden remains permissible. 

I like you to really think what i am trying to impart to you instead to rushing to secure a local/technical win.

Do you see the Conundrum you put yourself into by insisting on a line of thinking that does not apply here? 

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21 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Although your question was not directly answered, it looks like it has been acknowledged in the above post that this is a new practice which doesn't date back to the aimmah (عليه السلام) or their followers/companions. 

It took a few steps, but it looks like we have reached a common conclusion on this, if nothing else. 

As I have mentioned in previous threads regarding modern day popular practices, my only objection is when people pretend that it comes from the Qur'an or the Ahlulbayt.

They are free to practice what they like as far as I'm concerned, I just ask for honesty in terms of the origins of newly invented practices. 

My main concern is that it makes people apply weird logic that they then broadly apply to their religious practices in general.

I don't actually think that there are any individual issues with most of these practices, the issue is how people promote and then defend them - and as we have seen in recent years, things have just snow balled to the extent that there are nearly too many issues to address.

Also the promoters of these have gone from claiming that these are cultural practices to claiming that they are religious practices backed up by the Qur'an and the sunna.

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On 1/8/2021 at 2:35 PM, starlight said:

That's the purpose infact. Some decades ago there was movement to mass murder shias in Pakistan(can't tell you the exact decade because my grandfather who told this to me has passed away). So basically, they said they will start marking the Shia houses and burn them, kill the residents etc. As an act of defiance the shias and their scholars announced that they will save the deobandis/wahabbis the trouble of marking the houses and put an alam on the house themselves so the killers will have an easier time finding them. It was during that time that saw hoisting of the highest, biggest alams over almost every Shia house. 

These lines of poetry refer to the same 

بتا رہا ہے گھر پہ علم کا لہرانا ،

مکین کوئی بھی ہو یہ مکان حسین کا ہے

(The Alam hoisted on the house is declaring, regardless of who lives inside the house belongs to Hussain)

We have had an alam in every house we have owned and will continue to do so inshallah. 

 

:salam:

This is sad but beautiful, and that's the actual purpose of banners : pride, courage and allegiance.

Not all those kissing/bowing/du`a superstitions. 

 

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22 hours ago, Zainuu said:

Has 'Arbaeen Walk' any history?? Who amongst the Aimmah (عليه السلام) have ordered this or practiced this?? If I am not wrong it's just for remembrance. Same goes with all these acts.

Salam there is a famous narration from Imam Hasan Asqari (عليه السلام) that mentions one of signs of  believers as "Arbaeen walk". 

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19 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam there is a famous narration from Imam Hasan Asqari (عليه السلام) that mentions one of signs of  believers as "Arbaeen walk".

I may be wrong, but from what I've seen, the Arbaeen walk doesn't have a direct basis in traditions with strong chains. Again, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

This comes under the heading of acts in 'urf that are synonymous with the commemorating of Imam Hussain ((عليه السلام)) and his companions, and I personally support it wholeheartedly.

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Quote

 

: صَلاةُ إحْدَی وخَمسِینَ، وزِیارَةُ الأربَعِینَ، والتَّخَتُّمُ فی الیَمِینِ وتَعفِیرُ الجَبِینِ، والجَهرُ بِبِسمِ اللهِ الرَّحمنِ الرَّحیمِ

 There are five signs of perfection of faith of a believer: (1) To recite Bismillah aloud (2) To prostrate on dust (3) To wear a ring on finger of the right hand (4) To pray fifty-one rakat prayers in a day (5) To recite the Ziyarat of Imam Husain ((عليه السلام).) on day of Arbaeen.2 This tradition mentions points, which generally the Islamic Ummah has ignored and instead made some distortions; otherwise there are other signs of believers as well as Imam Hasan Askari ((عليه السلام).) has mentioned another five points in other reports. With regard to these signs, it is a brief request that Muslim world has created different contradictions about Bismillah. According to one: whether Bismillah is a verse or not? Another dispute is that if it is a verse; is it a part of Surah Hamd or it is a part of other Surahs as well. 1 Ahsanul Maqal, Vol. 2, Pg. 303 2 Usul Kafi  

http://www.duas.org/Imam_Askari_zhj.htm

https://en.alkawthartv.com/news/147544

https://imamhussain.org/english/newsandreports/22542

https://hadith.inoor.ir/fa/hadithlist?pagenumber=1&pagesize=10&sortcolumn=default&sortdirection=asc&text=عَلاماتُ%20المُؤمِنِ%20خَمسٌ&searchtype=and&isgroup=0&isfulltext=0&iserab=1&pagesizegrouping=10&flexibleforstem=1&flexibleforletter=1&flexibleforroot=0&searchin=hadith

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53 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam there is a famous narration from Imam Hasan Asqari (عليه السلام) that mentions one of signs of  believers as "Arbaeen walk". 

Salaam brother,

If there is a narration on this I might be unaware. Regardless, I would like to see the hadith along with source.

Also as far as the "sign of believer" Hadith is concerned :

Imam Hasan al-Askari (peace be upon him) says, “[t]he signs of the believer are five: praying fifty one Rak’at [including mandatory and optional prayers], Ziyarat al-Arba’een, wearing a ring in the right hand, prostration on dirt, and saying ‘Bismillah hir Rahman nir Raheem‘ in a raised voice.” (Wasa’il ush-Shi’a)

This is it. Taken from:

https://www.islamicinsights.com/religion/the-five-signs-of-a-believer.html

Ziyarat al Arbaeen is mentioned which is a long ziyarat recited on the day of Arbaeen. It doesn't indicate tradition of walking from 'Najaf to Karbala'.

May Allah bless you.

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