Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Christian appreciation (and questions) for Shia and Zaydi


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member
On 1/6/2021 at 9:35 AM, Guest Haider said:

I appreciate your reply. In our view Bani Abbas began the tradition that there would be twelve imams and the Mahdi would be from Bani Abbas. All I meant is that with time as knowledge spreads people will understand that the Twelve imam tradition was propaganda of its time. It’s no different from the Bani Umayya who circulated the traditions of the Sheikhayn. I mean the whole idea of an invisible imam is just impractical. This is why the twelvers had to rationally develop a leadership model. Of course this issue would never exist if there was no invisible infallible imam. I really do wish twelverism was the truth but unfortunately Shiism became corrupted by Bani Abbas and the Ghulat - the best clue is the preference for the color black today which is the favourite color of Bani Abbas.  Clearly Imamate cannot practically function in the twelver way - yet the representatives are happy to claim khumms... of course I don’t believe they are all corrupt most of them actually believe it like many of the ahl al Sunna whole heartedly believe in the traditions created by Muawiya on the Sheikhayn. There is too much corruption in din but it only ends up coming back to haunt.

as-salaamu alaikum brother,

As far as my understanding goes the Zaydi's also have ahadith on Mahdi (عليه السلام) although it differs from Shia. Perhaps more in line with Sunni thought. So is your view that 12ers made up the presence of the 12th Imam where as the Imam is to be born in the future?

 

On 1/25/2021 at 4:57 AM, Ali bin Hussein said:

If you read Shia sects by Nawbakhti you will see their were splits all the way up to 12th Imam. They are just not as well known as the history becomes vague around your later imams 

as-salaamu alaikum akhi, 

Does it matter about the splits? Since the death of the Nabi (SAWA) there have been schisms.. Its obvious that it will still occur during the life time of some of the 12er Shia imams. Even today we have sects popping up. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...
  • Advanced Member
On 3/25/2021 at 10:06 PM, MexicanVato said:

 

Does it matter about the splits? Since the death of the Nabi (SAWA) there have been schisms.. Its obvious that it will still occur during the life time of some of the 12er Shia imams. Even today we have sects popping up. 

 

How much it matters is perspective. Muslim bare a huge population of the world what effects then effects the globe. The effects of a Sunni Shia split have altered the world in many ways.

Current global politics etc are all shaped by major countries. Iran is Shia, Saudi is Salafi this has a huge impact on everyone.

So it depends on what angle you are looking at it from.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Ali bin Hussein said:

How much it matters is perspective. Muslim bare a huge population of the world what effects then effects the globe. The effects of a Sunni Shia split have altered the world in many ways.

Current global politics etc are all shaped by major countries. Iran is Shia, Saudi is Salafi this has a huge impact on everyone.

So it depends on what angle you are looking at it from

Brother the Zaydi are also broken up into groups. You have the Batris and Jarudis. I saw a brother on youtube last week teaching a class on the Zaydism he was taught and he seemed to state that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) accepted Caliphate of Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman. The teacher was supposedly talking of the bukhara region teaching of Zaydi. If that is the case I'd rather be sunni at that point. The video is referenced below. Start at 10:00: 

 

 

Edited by MexicanVato
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)

@MexicanVato, I watched the entire video...may Allah bless the two brothers and may Allah guide the American brother toward the truth...the Zaydi brother presented himself really well...his manner of deliverance was sincere, humble, clear and articulate...not sure about synthesizing yoga with Islam however...Lol...my understanding is that many of the poses, stances and hand gestures etc. derive from pagan practices and are intertwined with Hindu forms of worship...generic or non-signature modes of stretching and deep breathing are universal and hence allowable however...with regard to Imam Ali (a) not being physically present during Saqīfah...Ali (a) recognized the caliphate in the sense that he thoroughly understood the political reality of his day and acted accordingly...it wasn't ideal but it was preferable to anarchy and all-out dissolution...honest scholarship will recognize that Ali was majorly disappointed with the actions of this small contingent of companions and the subsequent outcome...here you had a man involved on every level of the nascent Islamic community...he was the foremost activist...he vigorously helped in writing down or narrating the revelation, he was the fiercest warrior on the battlefield, he was the standard bearer for the army, he was instrumental in conveying the message of Islam to neighboring Arab tribes, he was involved in all political, economic and societal spheres at the highest level...then once the Prophet (s) dies we see him do a 180 degree shift and become a hermit / recluse...this is a day-and-night difference...even prominent orientalists acknowledge that he chose a solitary course following the demise of Muhammad (a)...it's an undisputed historical fact...this dramatic contrast in behavior would suggest a person who had grave reservations for the new leadership..."Under Umar's Caliphate, Ali remained withdrawn from public affairs but still refusing to encourage sedition by advancing an alternative claim. The Sunni historians once again minimize the disagreements, whereas the Shi'is show Ali openly disagreeing with some of Umar's decisions and publicly showing his contempt for the Caliph on several occasions."....truth is to be found somewhere in the middle of both extremes but leaning much more toward the Shi'a perspective (my opinion).

Edited by Eddie Mecca
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

as-salaamu alaikum,

Yes the Zaydi brother is always articulate and humble. I don't have a beef with him personally. It was just the view that I challenge. Because reading other works of Zaidis such as al-Hadi's 'Fundamentals of Religion' indicates that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) raised objections and even later during his Caliphate mentioned proofs of his wilayah. So I was seeing sort of a split with the Zaydi's. The Zaydi's however do seem to be in the middle between the supposed extremes. I do not know if that is right or wrong as I ponder these questions myself. However, I am influenced by 12er Shi'a way that I practice. As of now I am convinced that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was indeed chosen by Allah and his Messenger (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Some Zaydi's believe that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was to be the successor of the Nabi (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) from implicit statements instead of explicit statements. This I do mull over, but I still am convinced that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was chosen and it seemed clear. Even the sunni Shaykh Atabek Shukurov seems to admit that sunnis did Imam Ali (عليه السلام) wrong and that Imam Ali was more knowledgable than Abu Bakr. He also indicated that Sunnis do not do justice with hadith thaqalayn. I am pulling this from the ahlul bayt documentary attached below. Perhaps I am overthinking, but if such a view was to be taken, that is the view that perhaps Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was upset because he wasn't included in the election, then that would indeed give weight to the Sunni view that sahabah simply differed among each other and we shouldn't delve into it. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
9 hours ago, AStruggler said:

@MexicanVato I think you will really love and find worthwhile this series, I've watched 3 so far and it's amazing: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV3ruWVn40g&list=PLYCFkN8Z2vovKM10I1IRUU5ktrpe6p9T9

Jazakallah khayr. I am viewing the video now. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
On 4/17/2021 at 6:15 PM, MexicanVato said:

Brother the Zaydi are also broken up into groups. You have the Batris and Jarudis.

This is incorrect, there are no Batris or Jarudis, they're extinct. Our Imams never adopted the views of Ziyad ibn al-mundhir and his companions. The majority of the Zaidiyyah follow the school of Al-Imam Al-Hadi i'lil al-haq [Yahya ibn Al-Hussein ibn Al-Qassim ibn Ibrahim ibn Ismael ibn Ibrahim ibn Al-Hassan (Al-muthana) ibn Al-Hassan (Al-Mujtaba) ibn Ali ibn Abi talib ((عليه السلام))]. However, this is certainly not like the broken groups we see in the history of the twelvers where we see the Akhbaris, the Usoolis, the Sheikhis, the Rasulis, etc. Those who follow the (fiqh) of Al-Imam Al-Qasim [Al-Qasim ibn ibrahim ibn Ismael ibn Ibrahim ibn Al-Hassan (Al-muthana) ibn Al-Hassan (Al-Mujtaba) ibn Ali ibn Abi talib ((عليه السلام))or the fiqh of Imam Al Nasir Al-Utroosh [Al-Hassan ibn Ali ibn Hassan ibn Ali ibn Umar ibn Ali Zaynulabideen (Al-Sajjad) ibn Al-Hussein (Al-Shaheed) ibn Ali ibn Abi talib ((عليه السلام)). And finally those who follow the fiqhi opinions of Imam Zayd ibn Ali (Al-Sajjad) ibn Al-Hussein (Al-Shaheed) ibn Ali ibn Abi talib ((عليه السلام)). 

These four schools do not differ in Usool, and reasonably have some simple differences in furoo3i matters.

Unlike the aforementioned twelver schools and their history, regardless whether they're extinct, or if their clouds are still hovering, there are absolutely no fundamental differences between our schools (of Fiqh). It is important to note that I have color-coded and emboldened the names of our respective Imams - All being from the sons of Al-Hassan and Al-Hussein, all from Ahlulbayt. As for the authors of the four usool that our twelver brothers have, it is clear that they are (a) not members of the Ahlulbayt, who claim to bring traditions from the Ahlulbayt and (b) come centuries after our noble Imams of the Ahlulbayt ((عليه السلام)). 

I have been very busy, however, in due time I hope to entertain some civil discussions Insha'Allah and not only shatter the unfortunate misconceptions that surround this honorable Madhab, but I will also show the undoubted support that Imam Al-Baqir, Imam Al-Sadiq, and Imam Al-Kadhim - to name some of the great sons and Imams of 'ilm and Jihad from the progeny of Al-Hussein ((عليه السلام)) showed in support of the sons of Al-Hassan and likewise their own brothers and nearest kin. I would truly appreciate it if the dear brothers can have some academic honesty and not refer to some Youtube videos by ''Bukhari Zaydis'' who do not represent the Zaydi Madhab and represent their own respective views, I have asked that they share their works with me and it is all in German. 

For those honest ones, who hate the way the Salafis and other groups would treat their school by calling them stone-worshippers, grave-worshippers, followers of Ibn Saba, and much more. Please do not - not saying that you are - jump to your own conclusions and mislead others through misunderstandings. We are here, we have access to traditional works, we can answer your questions and we are at your service. Please feel free to send me a private message, or E-Mail me at Halifulquran@gmail.com 

We also have our esteemed brothers on http://www.salvationark.com/salvationark1/ who would be more then happy to answer your inquiries as well.

For those who speak Arabic please do not forsake yourselves by not checking out this outstanding site - which is the core reason to me leaving Twelverism and becoming a Zaydi. https://alkazemalzaidy2013.wordpress.com/

On 4/21/2021 at 12:19 AM, MexicanVato said:

Some Zaydi's believe that Imam Ali

All Zaydis believe in the designation [from Qur'an and mass-transmitted traditions] of Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)), the members of the cloak, and their sons from Al-Hassan and Al-Hussein.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
4 minutes ago, Zaidism said:

I would truly appreciate it if the dear brothers can have some academic honesty and not refer to some Youtube videos by ''Bukhari Zaydis'' who do not represent the Zaydi Madhab and represent their own respective views, I have asked that they share their works with me and it is all in German. 

First of all brother, thank you for giving a detailed response. There seems to be misinformation on the Zaydis as there are the 12ers. There is a book called 'Shi'i Islam An Introduction' by Najam Haider. That book is where I got some of my concepts about the Zaydi. Now as far as the Bukhari Zaydis or whatever they are called, this seems like an internal issue for Zaydis to sort out. How are we to know that these folk are not Zaydis since they indeed claim to be Zaydis? I knew of the brother who taught the classes from a facebook Zaydi group (Back when I entertained lame social media). So are these folks not Zaydi? I know his teacher seems to have taken up the path of Sufism through the Naqshbandi tradition which is supposedly through Abu Bakr, which is a bit odd for one who claims to follow ahlul bayt (I am not criticizing just find it ghareeb). 

I am still working through Imam al-Hadi's Fundamentals of Religion. The commentary on it by Imam Rassi Society is superb. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
2 minutes ago, MexicanVato said:

this seems like an internal issue for Zaydis to sort out.

It will be sorted out, as soon as their clear on what exactly their teachings are. The onus is on them to first provide evidence for their claims and come to the traditional scholars and substantiate their grounds, not on us to police every clique/group that rises. 

5 minutes ago, MexicanVato said:

So are these folks not Zaydi?

Their school isn't a century old, think of it in contrast to Mulla Sadra in his time. Based on what I have seen they are fundamentally Zaydis, perhaps professing different perspectives here and there - which are unclear and will be addressed by those knowledgeable, when it comes to the legitimacy of said beliefs. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
41 minutes ago, Zaidism said:

It will be sorted out, as soon as their clear on what exactly their teachings are. The onus is on them to first provide evidence for their claims and come to the traditional scholars and substantiate their grounds, not on us to police every clique/group that rises. 

I agree akhi, but if you expect others to know what Zaydism is there may need to be some objections or refutation to these folk. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
46 minutes ago, MexicanVato said:

I agree akhi, but if you expect others to know what Zaydism is there may need to be some objections or refutation to these folk. 

Refutations to what exactly? They wouldn’t disagree with any of the points that I made. This is turning into a red-herring, as the bulk of my response wasn’t addressing them. I also didn’t pass judgement on them, rather I said it is of everyone’s interest - those wanting to know about Zaidism - to start off with the foundation, such as reading the Clear Exposition which is a wonderful start! 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
36 minutes ago, Zaidism said:

Refutations to what exactly? They wouldn’t disagree with any of the points that I made. This is turning into a red-herring, as the bulk of my response wasn’t addressing them. I also didn’t pass judgement on them, rather I said it is of everyone’s interest - those wanting to know about Zaidism - to start off with the foundation, such as reading the Clear Exposition which is a wonderful start! 

So they are Zaydis? I misunderstood. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...
  • Advanced Member
On 3/25/2021 at 6:06 PM, MexicanVato said:

Zaydi's also have ahadith on Mahdi (عليه السلام) although it differs from Shia. Perhaps more in line with Sunni thought.

Zaydi and Sunni brethren like to act as if Twelvers are from outer space because of the doctrine of Ghaybah...they say we are influenced by ghuluww etc. etc....but as I have pointed out before...both Muslim and secular scholars (like Benard Lewis and Moojan Momen) admit that the idea of an Occulted Imam is not a new concept but rather a reoccurring theme throughout Shi'i history (between 650 - 873 AD)...according to Jassim M. Hussain, traditions regarding occultation of al-Mahdi had been collected by many different Shia sects (e.g. Kaysaniyyah etc.)...the narrations and traditions existed in Waqifi, Zaydi, Jarudi and Imami collections...Among Zaydis, Abu Sa'eed Ibad ibn Yaqub Ravajini Asfari collected traditions on Occultation and lists the Imams as twelve in number without naming them (SOURCE: Hussain, Jassim M. Occultation of the Twelfth Imam: A Historical Background. "Archived copy". Archived from the original on 1 October 2008)...most Sunnis believe Mahdi (a) will be born sometime in the future but there's a small contingent of Sunnis who believe in Ghaybah and likewise believe al-ʿAskarī (a) bore a child or children...Baha' al-Din Naqshband is believed by Naqshbandis to be the second born son of al-ʿAskarī (a) and they (i.e. Naqshbandīyyah) mirror Twelver beliefs (almost) identically with regard to Zuhur, Rajʽa, Akhir ul Zaman etc....futhermore, here's a list of 30 Sunni scholars from al-islam,org who maintain that Imam al-Mahdi (a) is in fact 1.) already born, and 2.) the son of Hasan al-ʿAskarī  3.) is currently alive and 3.) in occultation, and 4.) will re-appear openly to establish global government of Universal Justice...they are in agreement with the Twelver Shi’a... 

1.) Kamal al-Din Ibn Talha, in his book "Matalib al-Su’aal Fi Manaqib Aal al-Rasool"

2.) Sulayman Ibn Ibrahim al-Qundoozi, al-Hanafi (known as Khawajah Kalan), in his book "Yanabi’ al-Mawaddah”who has also established from important Sunni sources that love for Ahlul-Bayt is the only right path and the Islamic Way of Life.

3.) Abu Abdullah Muhammad Ibn Yusuf Ganji, al-Shafi’i, (d. 658 AH), the author of "Al-Bayan fi Akhbar Sahib al-Zaman”and "Kifayah al-Talib".

4.) Shaikh Nooruddin ‘Ali Ibn Muhammad Ibn Sabbagh, al-Maliki, from Mecca, in his book "al-Fusool al-Muhimmah", pp 310,319.

5.) Ahmad Ibn Ibrahim Ibn Hashim al-Baladhuri is one of the great scholars and traditionists who also asserts the Imamat and occultation of the twelfth Imam in his book called "al-Hadith al-Mutasalsil"

6.) Ibn Arabi (Muhyiddin Muhammad Ibn ‘Ali Ibn Muhammad al-Arabi), al-Hanbali, in his book "Al-Futuhat al-Makkia”(Chapter 366) discusses a detailed account of the birth of al-Mahdi, son of al-Askari (عليه السلام), and of his re-appearance before the day of resurrection.

7.) Ibn Khashab (Abu Muhammad Abdullah Ibn Ahmad Ibn Ahmad Ibn Khashab), has given a detailed account of the twelfth Imam in his biographical book called "Tawarikh Mawaleed al-A’imma wa Wafiyatihim"

8.) Shaikh Abdullah Sha’rani (d. 905 AH), the celebrated Sufi, in his work "Yaqaqeet", Chapter 66, deals with the birth and the occultation of the twelfth Imam. Also He extensively talks about Imam al-Mahdi (عليه السلام) in his other book "Aqa’id al-Akabir".

9.) Shaikh Hasan Iraqi who accepts the twelfth Imam, praises Sha’rani as a pious and a learned ascetic, and narrates the story of Sha’rani’s meeting with the twelfth Imam.

10.) Sayyid ‘Ali, known as Khawas, the teacher of Sha’rani, also a believer of the twelfth Imam, confirms what Shaikh Hasan asserted about the meeting of Sha’rani with the twelfth Imam.

11.) Nooruddin Abdul Rahman Ibn Ahmad, known as Mulla Jami, in his book Shawahid al-Nubuwwah (The Evidence of Prophethood of Muhammad) gives an account of the birth of the twelfth Imam and his statement is in complete agreement with the Shi’a records.

12.) Muhammad Ibn Mahmood al-Bukhari, al-Hanafi, known as Khawaja Parsa in his book "Fasl al-Khitab”gives the account of the birth, occultation, and re-appearance of the twelfth Imam.

13.) Shaikh Abdul Haq Dehlawi, in his book "Jazb e Qulub", narrates the statements of Hakima, the daughter of the ninth Imam who was asked by the eleventh Imam, Imam al-Askari, to stay with Narjis, mother of the last Imam during the night at the end of which she gave birth to her son.

14.) Sayyid Jamaluddin Husayni Muhaddith who is the author of the celebrated book "Rawdhat al-Ahbab". According to Dayar [edited out], Mulla ‘Ali Qari, Abdul Haqq Dehlawi, "Rawdhat al-Ahbab”is one of the reliable sources of reference. The author mentions the twelfth Imam in the most reverential terms. He states:

The auspicious birth of the pearl of the Vicegerency and the precious form of the mine of guidance took place on the 15th of Sha’ban in the year of 225 AH at Samarra. He has described the Imam in the following words:

• al-Mahdi al-Muntadhar (the expected Mahdi)

• al-Khalaf al-Salih (the righteous successor)

• Sahib al-Zaman (the master of the time)

15.) al-Arif Abdul Rahman Sufi, in his works "Mir’at al-Asrar”(The Mirror of Mysteries) gives a detailed account of the birth, and the occultation of the twelfth Imam.

16.’) Ali Akbar, son of Asadullah Maududi, in his book Mukashifaat (Visions), which is a commentary on "Nafahat al-Uns”by Abdurrahman Jami, asserts the existence of the Mahdi as being the pole of guidance after his father Imam Hasan al-Askari, who was also the pole of guidance and Imamat.

17.) Malik al-Ulama Dulatabadi who is a well known scholar, in his work "Hidayat al-Saada”has confirmed the Imamat and the occultation of al-Mahdi.

18.) Nasr Ibn ‘Ali Jahzami Nasri, one of the most reliable reporters of traditions whom Khateeb al-Baghdadi has praised him in his works on history, and Yusuf Ganji al-Shafi’i, in his book Manaqib has introduced Nasr as one of the masters of al-Bukhari and Muslim. Nasr asserts the existence of:

Qa’im Aale Muhammad (The ‘Support’ among the family of Muhammad), the one among the Imams of the House of the Prophet (S) whose duty is to establish Islam throughout the world.

19.) Mulla ‘Ali Qari, one of the greatest traditionists, in his famous book, "Mirqat", talks about Imam al-Mahdi after mentioning the celebrated statement of the Holy Prophet (S) that after him there would be twelve successors (Caliphs). Mulla ‘Ali states whether they are in power or not makes no difference as they are the rightful Imams.

20.) Kazi Jawad Sibti was a Christian but later became a Muslim. He wrote "Baraheen Sibtiyya”(Proofs forwarded by Sibti), which is a refutation of the Christian writers. He narrates the Prophecy from Ashaya (Joshua) concerning the coming of a man from the chosen branch of the chosen lineage of Adam who would be the seat of the spirit. In other words, he will be filled with the spirit of wisdom, sympathy, justice and knowledge and he will be God fearing. God will bestow on him a sound and glorying reason and make him firm.

His judgment would be based on hearing an external evidence, but he will have a guided insight about everything and judge people according to what they really are in their hearts. He further states that his method of judgment is peculiar to him and has not been adopted by any prophet or Vice-regent of God. The Muslims are unanimous that the Mahdi of this description shall be descendant of Fatimah, daughter of the holy Prophet (S). Particularly the view of the Shi’a seems to be real interpretation of this real prophecy.

21.) Sibt Ibn al-Jawzi, al-Hanafi, (Shams al-Din Abul Mudhaffar Yusuf), the author of "Tathkirat al-Khawas", pp 325-328 gives the names of 22 people believed by Muslims to have lived various ages from 3,000 down to 300 years! He also writes about the twelfth Imam as follows

• He (al-Mahdi) is Muhammad Ibn al-Hasan Ibn ‘Ali Ibn Muhammad Ibn ‘Ali Ibn Musa al-Ridha

• His title is Abu Abdillah and Abul Qasim

• He is the last successor of the Prophet (S)

• He is the Last Imam of the House

• He is the authoritative proof of God (al-Hujjah)

• He is the master of time (Sahib al-Zaman)

• and he is the expected one (al-Muntadhar)

22.) Abu Bakr Ahmad Ibn Hasan al-Bayhaqi, the famous Shafi’i jurist, has confirmed the birth of the son of al-Askari and his being as the expected Mahdi.

23.) Shaikh Sadruddin, known as Hamavi, who has written a book about the Last Imam of the House of the Prophet (S). He quotes a tradition of the Holy Prophet (S) as follows

Prophet (S) said: "The learned one among my followers are in the rank of the Prophets from among the Children of Israel", also referring to the twelve Naqeeb (chiefs)of the Children of Israel (see Qur’an 5:12). But the last Wali, who is the last of the successors of the Prophet (S) and who is the Twelfth Wali in the chain of Awliaa, is al-Mahdi, "Sahib al-Zaman", his appellation and title should not be used for any one else.

24.) Shaikh Ahmad Jami, (as quoted by Qundoozi, author of "Yanabi al- Mawaddah", and Qadhi Noorullah author of "Majalis al-Mu’mineen") has composed the following poem:

My heart is fine and bright with the love of Haydar

Next to Haydar, al-Hasan is our Guide and Leader.

The dust beneath the Shoes of al-Husayn

is the eyeliner (surmah) for my eyes.

al-Abideen, the ornament of all devotees

is like a crown on my head.

al-Baqir is the light of both my eyes.

The religion of Ja’far is true and the path of Musa is right.

O, loyal, ones: listen to me praising the King of Kings (al-Ridha)
who is buried in Khurasan.

A particle from the dust of his tomb is the cure of all pains

Leader of men of faith is al-Taqi, O dear Muslims

If you love al-Naqi in preference to all other people,

you have done the thing which is proper and right.

al-Askari is the light of the eyes of both Adam and the world.

Where can be found, in the world,

such a chief in command like al-Mahdi?

25.) Shaikh Amir Ibn Basri has composed an eulogy called Qasidah Tayya. The composition contains theosophical lore, maxims, mystical points, and matter of etiquette. Here are some lines quoted:

O’ Imam al-Mahdi! How long will You be hidden?

Oblige us, O’ our father, with your return!

We feel sad the waiting time is prolonged.

For the sake of Thy Lord, bless us with your audience.

O the pole of being! Hasten, O our beloved!

Return, so that we may enjoy the sight.

Surely, it is a great a pleasure

for a lover to meet his beloved after a long absence.

26.) Husayn Ibn Hamdan al-Husayni, in his book "al-Hidaya”mentions the twelfth Imam, the master of time, as the son of the eleventh Imam Hasan al-Askari.

27.) The well known biographer, Ibn Khallakan in his book "Wafayat al-A’ayan", has given a brief account of the birth of the Imam.

28.) Ibn al-Azraq, as quoted by Ibn Khallakan, asserts the existence of the twelfth Imam.

29.) Ibn al-Wardi the historian, in his work asserts the birth of the son of al-Askari in 255 AH.

30.) Sayyid Mu’min Shablanji in his work "Noor al-Absar”gives the genealogy of Imam Muhammad al-Mahdi (عليه السلام), the twelfth Imam.

 

Edited by Eddie Mecca
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
On 4/21/2021 at 1:19 AM, MexicanVato said:

The Zaydi's however do seem to be in the middle between the supposed extremes.

Islam is known as the 'Religion of the Middle Path' and every sect and denomination claims to be the most balanced...to me Twelver Shi'ism is smackdab center...they praise Muhammad (s) and Ahlul Bayt (a) as they aught to be praised without going to extremes...they don't claim Muhammad or Ali or the Imams (or any other personality) to be God or gods...they don't claim Ali is a prophet...they're stern against those who wronged Ahlul Bayt (a) and they don't attempt to whitewash history...they're staunch against the imperialists, Zionists etc. and warm and kind among the believers (e.g. their relationship with Hamas and Islamic Jihad)...they're non-sectarian and vehemently stand for the underdog and refuse to compromise with those in authority...to a lesser extent Zaydi Shi'ism mirrors Twelver Shi'ism in this regard...if Twelverism didn't exist I'd most likely be a Zaydi...I'm still open and willing to listen to reasonable arguments from the Zaydis.

Edited by Eddie Mecca
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
5 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Zaydi and Sunni brethren like to act as if Twelvers are from outer space because of the doctrine of Ghaybah...they say we are influenced by ghuluww etc. etc....but as I have pointed out before...both Muslim and secular scholars (like Benard Lewis and Moojan Momen) admit that the idea of an Occulted Imam is not a new concept but rather a reoccurring theme throughout Shi'i history (between 650 - 873 AD)...according to Jassim M. Hussain, traditions regarding occultation of al-Mahdi had been collected by many different Shia sects (e.g. Kaysaniyyah etc.)...the narrations and traditions existed in Waqifi, Zaydi, Jarudi and Imami collections...Among Zaydis, Abu Sa'eed Ibad ibn Yaqub Ravajini Asfari collected traditions on Occultation and lists the Imams as twelve in number without naming them (SOURCE: Hussain, Jassim M. Occultation of the Twelfth Imam: A Historical Background. "Archived copy". Archived from the original on 1 October 2008)...most Sunnis believe Mahdi (a) will be born sometime in the future but there's a small contingent of Sunnis who believe in Ghaybah and likewise believe al-ʿAskarī (a) bore a child or children...Baha' al-Din Naqshband is believed by Naqshbandis to be the second born son of al-ʿAskarī (a) and they (i.e. Naqshbandīyyah) mirror Twelver beliefs (almost) identically with regard to Zuhur, Rajʽa, Akhir ul Zaman etc....futhermore, here's a list of 30 Sunni scholars from al-islam,org who maintain that Imam al-Mahdi (a) is in fact 1.) already born, and 2.) the son of Hasan al-ʿAskarī  3.) is currently alive and 3.) in occultation, and 4.) will re-appear openly to establish global government of Universal Justice...they are in agreement with the Twelver Shi’a...

Great post Akhi! Jazakallah khayr. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...