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In the Name of God بسم الله

Would you marry a woman with children?

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This question arose from one of my best friends. He asked me and I truly had not thought about it much. I told him that it is in our tradition that we do it, as the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) did it [he is a non-Muslim].

Moreover, I told him that I would not only marry her, but give her children of my own in multitudes! Nonetheless, I would like the opinion of everyone else and why. 

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Sigh, see, this is the immaturity. Children are not 'finances'. Children need to be taken care of emotionally and physically too besides the financial aspect. Is this your idea of bringing up children

Salam   I'll come straight to the point.   See the problem is that men don't understand or for their ego it is difficult to interpret the bounding the love that is given to a mothe

This question arose from one of my best friends. He asked me and I truly had not thought about it much. I told him that it is in our tradition that we do it, as the Messenger of Allah (peace and bless

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2 hours ago, Nightclaw said:

Moreover, I told him that I would not only marry her, but give her children of my own in multitudes!

I thought the advantage of the former is that you don't have to do the latter. In other words, having kids without dealing with the ordeals of pregnancy/early toddler times, with the preference for raising older children. That's what some people may want. 

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As long as the woman knows her religion, and can keep the meeting balance between the biological father of her kids and the new husband, there shouldn’t be anything wrong with it. 

Also the woman has to be a strong person because the ex-husband would think of all kinds of ghaira excuses as soon as the new husband pops in the picture. The daughter(s) he has been ignoring for ages and the son(s) he has been rejecting for ions would suddenly seem endangered to him. The wife would have to play a very strong and firm role in this balancing mess. 
 

But yes, personally (ideally) any decent man would prefer that, because the woman would be hopefully more appreciative of the new husband after experiencing her abusive ex, and he would be earning more thawab for being a support of an incomplete family. 

I say “ideally” because in practice, women’s fairytale side takes over and she starts demanding perfection in an otherwise imperfect arrangement, causing the whole thing to fall apart (more likely). 
 

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I always look at questions like these and wonder why they are relevant. The simple answer is that we've actually devolved as an Ummah to these issues. Our society/Ummah has such a negative view towards divorced or widowed women which was not the case in the time of the Prophet(SW) and Imams(Peace be upon them) but it certainly is in this age where they are viewed as damaged goods or second choices. In the subcontinent, I think this view has brushed onto Muslims from Hindus as there was a time when we all lived together before partition. No idea where it comes from in the ME. But anyway as for the question itself. I don't have any problem with a woman having kids or having had marriages before meeting me. What only matters is the level of togetherness in a relationship and the relationship itself. At the end of the day, you're going to be with eachother regardless of anything else. I've had one temporary marriage with a woman who was 5-6 years older than I am and had two kids. I didn't have any problem with them and we all got along fine. I would've married her perma. but I did not because at the end of the day I'd want someone to speak the same language as I do and have some cultural similarities and the marriage fell apart because I could not give her that perma. happy ending as I am always honest with everyone I come to contact with in personal issues(I told her from the start this is temporary and would never lead anywhere). But one thing that I'd always advise anyone going this route is to first learn the temperament of the single mother you're going to be with.

There are two kinds of single mothers in this world when it comes to marriage(either perma or temp), the first one is the one you should usually avoid where they prioritize their children more than anything else in the world. They also use their children as an excuse for not doing something they were suppose to do and always make you feel like you aren't as important as them. They'd also want you to love their children immediately like a Father Bear upon meeting them. This is unrealistic and one of the reasons why such relationships fail and men avoid them because in a relationship everyone matters. You gotta devote motherhood and wife-hood 50-50 in percentage. You can't prioritize one thing and alienate the other.

Now the second category is how these relationships should work and do work if done right. Single mothers should treat prospective husbands well and devote time to them, sometimes even go beyond and shower them with love/affection. This in turn makes men more partial to caring and loving their children instead of having it forced down their throats. Care and love comes naturally. It can't be brought out of someone with an ultimatum where someone says "Well you can't be with me w/o loving my children sorry."

My ex wife was like this second category, at the start I told her that I don't want anything to do with her kids. She didn't mind it nor ever forced/expected me to interact with them but I found myself caring for them because she was so good/understanding to me. So these are the kinds of single mother one should look out for.

Hope I explained things right.

Wasalam.

Edited by El Cid
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5 hours ago, Nightclaw said:

This question arose from one of my best friends. He asked me and I truly had not thought about it much. I told him that it is in our tradition that we do it, as the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) did it [he is a non-Muslim].

Moreover, I told him that I would not only marry her, but give her children of my own in multitudes! Nonetheless, I would like the opinion of everyone else and why. 

Have a look at Sahih Muslim International, 3458-3462, on the excellence of marrying a virgin.

Shia books have similar hadith to this effect.

That being said, based on personal experience, I would marry a young (ideally around 22), virgin woman. There isn't some hidden chauvinistic agenda on my part; life experience has taught me that women with baggage are to be avoided for a happy life.

On the other hand, if I was divorced/widowed and had children, I would have no problem marrying a woman with a similar situation.

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1 hour ago, Sabrejet said:

On the other hand, if . . . divorced/widowed and had children, I would have . . . problem marrying a woman

On the other hand, there was an American FoxTV program entitled "Marred, with Children:sorry:" which warns us guys.

 

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4 hours ago, Reza said:

I thought the advantage of the former is that you don't have to do the latter. In other words, having kids without dealing with the ordeals of pregnancy/early toddler times, with the preference for raising older children. That's what some people may want. 

Perhaps I should have specified. Her children would be no older than a few years old and she may be younger than average. Raising older children does not have the same effect of having children of your own, some would argue. 
 

But would you? I would like your opinion and why exactly you would or would not. 

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1 hour ago, Sabrejet said:

Have a look at Sahih Muslim International, 3458-3462, on the excellence of marrying a virgin.

Shia books have similar hadith to this effect.

That being said, based on personal experience, I would marry a young (ideally around 22), virgin woman. There isn't some hidden chauvinistic agenda on my part; life experience has taught me that women with baggage are to be avoided for a happy life.

On the other hand, if I was divorced/widowed and had children, I would have no problem marrying a woman with a similar situation.

Hmmm... I see. What experience has taught you this, if you do not mind sharing? It does not have to go into detail, but I turned 20 years of age near a few months after the beginning of this year and would like to know what to expect in the future. 

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43 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

Hmmm... I see. What experience has taught you this, if you do not mind sharing? It does not have to go into detail, but I turned 20 years of age near a few months after the beginning of this year and would like to know what to expect in the future. 

Lets just say there was a girl, who had her 'aqd broken, and who's didn't have parents/guardians. She was living alone off of her inheritance. This makes her easily eligible for mutah. Lets agree to disagree on whether mutah is allowed or not.

Anyways, this girl contacted me; we knew each other when we were kids. For a few months, all was well and good. We were planning to marry permanently. Soon however, she showed her true colors. Without going into much detail, here's a few words of advice:

1- make sure that the girl you are planning to marry is truly over any man in her past. If she even starts mentioning her ex, back off.

2-if she starts displaying certain red flags, back off; such as lack of manners, arrogance, contempt for the weak and working class, materialism, fighting with neighbors for little things etc

3-if she starts being blatantly disrespectful, just leave; ignore her crying and pleading. Ignore her justifications about bipolar disorder and depression, and her begging you to give her a chance. These are all tactics; don't take them at face value.

4-the more you tolerate a girl, any girl, the less she'll respect you. Women's love for men and respect are intertwined; they aren't separate. When she starts acting out, call her out on it (without anger or any emotion except disappointment). It's beneficial to the relationship in the long run. Never hit her in anger under any circumstance, no matter how much she screams at you to do it (it's a tactic). I didn't fall for this one, thankfully.

 

I actually thank Allah now for making me go through such an experience, even though it broke me temporarily. I feel like I'm now well equipped to marry a much better woman, and I've learned enough to make a marriage work.

Last word of advice: lift weights. Make it a routine as much as salat. You'll find the benefits when the time comes; above all, women subconsciously respect well built men.

 

Edit: divorced and widowed women are often emotionally glazed. They may be bitter and cold. Their views about love and marriage are quite cynical. Marrying such woman is often done for practical purposes, often by already married/divorced/widowed men with children.

Of course, there are wonderful exceptions, but those are few and far in between. Its much easier to find a suitable, young virgin girl; hence we have hadith giving them preference in sunni and shia literature. It might sound misogynist to some, but these traditions have their basis in wisdom.

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23 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

1- make sure that the girl you are planning to marry is truly over any man in her past. If she even starts mentioning her ex, back off.

What do you mean by mentioning? What if she just wants to be truthful and tell me how her previous relationships with her husbands went?

25 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

3-if she starts being blatantly disrespectful, just leave; ignore her crying and pleading. Ignore her justifications about bipolar disorder and depression, and her begging you to give her a chance. These are all tactics; don't take them at face value.

Can women really just cry and plead as a tactic? I find it very hard to actually believe that... but can they? If someone is begging you, it would make you feel like a terrible person if you were to turn a cold shoulder to them, right? What if she actually has a bipolar disorder and suffers from depression? How can you actually distinguish and would it not be a waste of time to? I feel as if it would be better to cater to her rather than admonish, but I want to know why you say what you say. 

29 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

4-the more you tolerate a girl, any girl, the less she'll respect you. Women's love for men and respect are intertwined; they aren't separate. When she starts acting out, call her out on it (without anger or any emotion except disappointment). It's beneficial to the relationship in the long run. Never hit her in anger under any circumstance, no matter how much she screams at you to do it (it's a tactic). I didn't fall for this one, thankfully.

 

This part is confusing. If she loves me, then she will respect me - so how can she start disrespecting me and then going back to begging and pleading for me to stay? Why would she humiliate herself and show weakness if she did not love me and why would she disrespect me if she loved me if they are intertwined?

As for hitting women, that is something I will never do. I have a few promises to myself that I will never break and this is among them. Moreover, I just realized you said "screams at you to do it" - why? This does not make sense. Why would she scream at you to hit her, making this scene, drawing attention if she respected or loved you?

32 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

Last word of advice: lift weights. Make it a routine as much as salat. You'll find the benefits when the time comes; above all, women subconsciously respect well built men.

I have always worked out ever since I start doing Wu-Shu as a child, and even after I obtained my black belt a few years ago, I started delving into other martial arts. I am hoping to get only a tad bit bigger than I am and even moreso upon hearing what you said. 

35 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

Edit: divorced and widowed women are often emotionally glazed. They may be bitter and cold. Their views about love and marriage are quite cynical. Marrying such woman is often done for practical purposes, often by already married/divorced/widowed men with children.

Of course, there are wonderful exceptions, but those are few and far in between. Its much easier to find a suitable, young virgin girl; hence we have hadith giving them preference in sunni and shia literature. It might sound misogynist to some, but these traditions have their basis in wisdom.

I really want you to be wrong and wish there were other opinions that I could refer to, but something is telling me you are right. My father always said that history repeats itself and that immediately came to mind reading this. I see nothing wrong with older women, but now my mind may subconsciously change that. Well, consciously now because it sounds like you had a horror show. I know mental manipulation, berating, and degrading is worse than any physical damage and I would not like to go through it. 

Come to think of it, I am now realizing why you said the ex thing. I am a very jealous person and would hate for that to happen to me, now that I picture it. Sigh. 

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Just now, Nightclaw said:

What do you mean by mentioning? What if she just wants to be truthful and tell me how her previous relationships with her husbands went?

By that, I mean that she starts saying his name and crying while being intimate with you. I soon discovered that she wasn't over him; he was the one that broke off the wedding when he saw her true character. Poor guy.

 

1 minute ago, Nightclaw said:

Can women really just cry and plead as a tactic? I find it very hard to actually believe that... but can they? If someone is begging you, it would make you feel like a terrible person if you were to turn a cold shoulder to them, right? What if she actually has a bipolar disorder and suffers from depression? How can you actually distinguish and would it not be a waste of time to? I feel as if it would be better to cater to her rather than admonish, but I want to know why you say what you say. 

I used to believe it too, and I gave her way too much benefit of the doubt than she actually deserved. I tried leaving her several times, but sympathy made me return. In the end, she was the one to walk away.

If a woman has these illnesses, and she refuses to see professionals, and she refuses to take medication, then she deserves no sympathy. It just shows lack of impulse control and immaturity on her part. When things had ended, she said she wished I was more firm with her.

Other than her, there are other places where I've seen women use crying as a tactic. It's a very bitter pill to swallow for young men (me included), but women can be very manipulating and ruthless.

7 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

This part is confusing. If she loves me, then she will respect me - so how can she start disrespecting me and then going back to begging and pleading for me to stay? Why would she humiliate herself and show weakness if she did not love me and why would she disrespect me if she loved me if they are intertwined?

You'll find, eventually, that it's the other way round for women. It's another bitter pill to swallow for young, naive men, like myself. They also love men for what they are, not who they are; it's natural. There is no such thing as unconditional love, except for a parent's love for their children. Anyways, in her particular case, she was afraid of ending up alone, so she begged me to stay. It changed of course when she secretly found someone else, someone well settled.

 

12 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

Moreover, I just realized you said "screams at you to do it" - why? This does not make sense. Why would she scream at you to hit her, making this scene, drawing attention if she respected or loved you?

It happens; some women have deep seated psychological issues. Her justification was that she wanted me to fight back when she insults me. Better let a professional handle such a woman, and keep your distance from her. You might be surprised to learn that almost every woman has one issue or another; your job is to find someone with the most tolerable issues.

 

15 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

I have always worked out ever since I start doing Wu-Shu as a child, and even after I obtained my black belt a few years ago, I started delving into other martial arts. I am hoping to get only a tad bit bigger than I am and even moreso upon hearing what you said.

Keep it up! Traditions in our religion also encourage physical fitness. Our Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was quite active and fairly well built as well, if you read seerat literature.

 

17 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

I really want you to be wrong and wish there were other opinions that I could refer to, but something is telling me you are right. My father always said that history repeats itself and that immediately came to mind reading this. I see nothing wrong with older women, but now my mind may subconsciously change that. Well, consciously now because it sounds like you had a horror show. I know mental manipulation, berating, and degrading is worse than any physical damage and I would not like to go through it. 

Come to think of it, I am now realizing why you said the ex thing. I am a very jealous person and would hate for that to happen to me, now that I picture it. Sigh. 

Young men like ourselves in general have a very exalted opinion on women in general. These pills are quite bitter for us to swallow. Here's another fact that might surprise you: women hate it when you put them on a pedestal. Any man that puts them on a pedestal will be repulsive to them.

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25 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

By that, I mean that she starts saying his name and crying while being intimate with you. I soon discovered that she wasn't over him; he was the one that broke off the wedding when he saw her true character. Poor guy.

I read the first sentence and I swore my blood started boiling. How did you even stay after that? I would have left out of pure rage. That would have been the first and final straw you have more patience than I do, that is for sure. 

26 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

I used to believe it too, and I gave her way too much benefit of the doubt than she actually deserved. I tried leaving her several times, but sympathy made me return. In the end, she was the one to walk away.

If a woman has these illnesses, and she refuses to see professionals, and she refuses to take medication, then she deserves no sympathy. It just shows lack of impulse control and immaturity on her part. When things had ended, she said she wished I was more firm with her.

Other than her, there are other places where I've seen women use crying as a tactic. It's a very bitter pill to swallow for young men (me included), but women can be very manipulating and ruthless.

47 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

Why would she make you stay? It sounds to me as if she was using you as a stepping stone. The more I read what you say, the more infuriated I become. I do not understand women. I do not understand why anyone would do that. What is the point of that? It is a waste of time and you only take away from a person who genuinely cares about you. I used to think that women were better lovers than men, but a lot of things that men have experienced and said to me recently is starting to get me to change my mind. I cannot stand people like that. I think if I ever knew what it felt like to become a Super Saiyan for the first time, it is hearing things like this. I can nor elaborate nor explain how angry it makes me. 

32 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

You'll find, eventually, that it's the other way round for women. It's another bitter pill to swallow for young, naive men, like myself. They also love men for what they are, not who they are; it's natural. There is no such thing as unconditional love, except for a parent's love for their children. Anyways, in her particular case, she was afraid of ending up alone, so she begged me to stay. It changed of course when she secretly found someone else, someone well settled.

Lol. I forgot what question and whatever else I was going to say because of the last thing you said. I was already in a bad mood before but this is worsening it and affirms what I said before. Hearing all of this slightly puts me off getting married because I do not want to be with someone who loves what I am instead of who I am. What I am is a product of who I am and what I am will change, but whoever I am will remain. If you love who I am, you will never stop loving me. It sounds like artificial love to me, which is something I can never be bound to. I really do feel for you despite you being over it, but I cannot accept what she has done. Someone very close to me went through something similar, but it never included the mental gymnastics and manipulation. 

38 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

It happens; some women have deep seated psychological issues. Her justification was that she wanted me to fight back when she insults me. Better let a professional handle such a woman, and keep your distance from her. You might be surprised to learn that almost every woman has one issue or another; your job is to find someone with the most tolerable issues.

Now my question, before I answer, is this: was she like this before you met her? Did she show any of these signs or did you find out later? Because if you found out later, it is pretty much a shot in the dark which will lead me to wonder if I am actually done over before I even begin. There is a hadith that states that you do not know a person until you live with them or travel with them and that is something that pops into my mind when speaking of this. 

41 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

Young men like ourselves in general have a very exalted opinion on women in general. These pills are quite bitter for us to swallow. Here's another fact that might surprise you: women hate it when you put them on a pedestal. Any man that puts them on a pedestal will be repulsive to them.

How??? I thought women like to be appreciated and reassurance! I am glad I do not speak to women at all because I would be in a heap of trouble if I did. I do not understand why they hate it if they like to be appreciated? For instance, I hear that they will be upset or feel.... worthless, you could say, if you do not tell them that they look nice in whatever garments or things they wear. Why would it be repulsive to do that?

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2 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

It sounds to me as if she was using you as a stepping stone

There's a specific term for that; it's called a 'rebound' in relationship jargon. Initially, I wasn't a rebound; she genuinely wanted to marry me I believe. When she saw that I had a long way to go in my studies and career, she changed her tone.

 

4 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

Now my question, before I answer, is this: was she like this before you met her? Did she show any of these signs or did you find out later?

When I met her, she was intelligent, well-mannered, gentle-natured, kind, and honest. She told me a lot of stuff before our relationship began. Her childhood abuse (physical, not sexual), her ex (she called him abusive and vilified him; he wasn't. He was actually a decent guy.) Her psychological issues. She just told me to be patient, and not to judge her for anything she might do. I took the bait.

 

6 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

How??? I thought women like to be appreciated and reassurance! I am glad I do not speak to women at all because I would be in a heap of trouble if I did. I do not understand why they hate it if they like to be appreciated? For instance, I hear that they will be upset or feel.... worthless, you could say, if you do not tell them that they look nice in whatever garments or things they wear. Why would it be repulsive to do that?

There is a balance. There is a way to show appreciation; through actions, not words. A proper discussion will take us beyond the norms and standards of this forum though. There are other anonymous online forums though, that will give you a basic guideline (ironically, she introduced me to them.)

If you go overboard with praise and appreciation, then you'll end up in this situation: /r/deadbedrooms (mods, I swear this is educational)

Here's a good starting place to learn: /r/marriedredpill. Ignore all posts and comments except the pinned ones, and read the sidebar over the course of a few days. This forum is specifically aimed at men with wives, but it's decent preparation for future marriages too. Never visit any other red pill forums; they will corrupt your views and lead you to misogyny.

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2 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

That show should be on the mandatory watch list for soon-to-be-marred guys; it will put them on their guard a bit.

Agree. And we can add l Love Lucy (crazy red-head wife), All in da Family (self-assertive dumb-blonde with 'ding bat' mother), The Mothers-in-Law :ko:Green Acres (really dumb-blonde Lisa), "That Girl"' (black hair and kinda dumb). Then, for dumb kids, The Brady Bunch --or as l call it, The Bratty Bunch.

See guys! Dumb gurls come in all colors.

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10 hours ago, Nightclaw said:

This question arose from one of my best friends. He asked me and I truly had not thought about it much. I told him that it is in our tradition that we do it, as the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) did it [he is a non-Muslim].

Moreover, I told him that I would not only marry her, but give her children of my own in multitudes! Nonetheless, I would like the opinion of everyone else and why. 

In our society divorcees are seen in a bad light. 

But their are many cases in which a woman is betrayed through a wrong man. She gets into marriage but has no option other than divorce after a short time. Any such woman, with or withour children, in my humble and honest opinion, should not be only accepted but preferred. It is just an opinion so I won't disagree with anyone who thinks otherwise. 

But their is a need to change the mentality and that can happen only through action. 

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1 hour ago, Syeda Batool Rizvi said:

Salam

 

I'll come straight to the point.

 

See the problem is that men don't understand or for their ego it is difficult to interpret the bounding the love that is given to a mother by the nature for her children. If a woman becomes a mother her priorities are changed automatically. Now if the children are not from the man she is married to it will be difficult for the man to accept that fact she will obviously keep her children despite how much she loves her husband as her first priority because that's in their human nature (I'm taking in genera ...I can be wrong... and of course there exists women who don't really care about their children). I have seen men getting jealous from their own children or complaining after having kids that they aren't given that much attention. And that's the main reason why divorced or widowed women with children don't dare to marry for the second time because not every woman is capable of keeping that balance after marriage. First of all for every person who has went through divorce process will know that it is hard for them to trust again in someone new and you will start prejudice people easily or that's normal for people who already had bad experiences. And if they (especially women) decide to marry despite having children they still fear of neglecting their children or their partners. So somehow someone has to compromise and it is really rare for men to compromise for someone else's children in case he really loves and respect that women and is willing to accept with her children and to look after them. Then there is no issue and Islam openly encourages that kind of act. But in many cases the woman has to sacrifice and in case if the mother is really young then her parents decide or somehow force her to marry again and keep her children by themselves or they get neglected or they get raised by their biological father and if they are lucky enough by good stepmothers (vis versa).

So in my opinion if your friend is serious about that woman then he should go for it...and he should keep every aspect regarding her and his own life in his mind.

A lot of people have misconceptions about the virginity. So keep in mind that virginity is not a certificate of good character maybe for some people it is everything they want in a woman. The only thing that virginity proves is that the person has no experience with sex. That’s it. It doesn’t tell you anything else about a person's character maybe she is pious and wants to wait until her marriage but you don't know that's not a guarantee. A person can anytime get weak at any point of his/her life and fall into a sin.

Good character to me should be what every man should look for in every lady before proposing marriage to her, going by this popular adage that for every successful man, there must be a woman. The woman we are talking about here is a woman with a good character who will always open the door of great opportunities for her husband with her good character independent of her being divorced, widowed or virgin.

Wasalam

 

A good man would not allow himself to set up a competition between himself and the children of the lady he married. He would be flexible and accommodate the situation. He has an obligation to do this because he married her knowing what the situation was, i.e. that she already had children from a previous marriage. At the same time a good women would realize that she has children AND a husband and would not allow herself to focus on one aspect and ignore the other one. She would try her best to balance the needs of both. 

That's why the advice or Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) was to marry a spouse with Iman and Taqwa. Look at that and if they have that marry them. That is because whatever other situations are there or come up in the future (children, financial problems, issues with inlaws, etc), the spouse with Iman and Taqwa will react in a way that is fair and tries to accomodate the needs of all parties within the framework of the religion of Islam, i.e. maintaining Justice (adl). The spouse without Iman and Taqwa, even if the marriage is ideal at first (both spouses are young, no children, good financial situation, no problems with families, etc) once a difficult situation comes up in the marriage (and this will definitely happen at some point) the reaction of the spouse without Iman and Taqwa will be destructive to the marriage and most likely the marriage will end in bitterness. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) doesn't like to see this happen, thus the advice. The jist of the advice is those without Iman and Taqwa, whether they are men or women, previously married or not, kids or not, shouldn't be married. The ones with Iman and Taqwa, whether they are men or women, previously married or not, kids or no kids, shouldn't be single. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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2 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

There's a specific term for that; it's called a 'rebound' in relationship jargon. Initially, I wasn't a rebound; she genuinely wanted to marry me I believe. When she saw that I had a long way to go in my studies and career, she changed her tone.

 

When I met her, she was intelligent, well-mannered, gentle-natured, kind, and honest. She told me a lot of stuff before our relationship began. Her childhood abuse (physical, not sexual), her ex (she called him abusive and vilified him; he wasn't. He was actually a decent guy.) Her psychological issues. She just told me to be patient, and not to judge her for anything she might do. I took the bait.

 

There is a balance. There is a way to show appreciation; through actions, not words. A proper discussion will take us beyond the norms and standards of this forum though. There are other anonymous online forums though, that will give you a basic guideline (ironically, she introduced me to them.)

If you go overboard with praise and appreciation, then you'll end up in this situation: /r/deadbedrooms (mods, I swear this is educational)

Here's a good starting place to learn: /r/marriedredpill. Ignore all posts and comments except the pinned ones, and read the sidebar over the course of a few days. This forum is specifically aimed at men with wives, but it's decent preparation for future marriages too. Never visit any other red pill forums; they will corrupt your views and lead you to misogyny.

I had to stop reading a few posts in the first r/. I felt as if I needed to stop digging deeper because guys had problems that I fear happening to me and they had no real reason to. Also, what do you think about what @Syeda Batool Rizvisaid concerning this?

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14 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

I had to stop reading a few posts in the first r/. I felt as if I needed to stop digging deeper because guys had problems that I fear happening to me and they had no real reason to. Also, what do you think about what @Syeda Batool Rizvisaid concerning this?

Her point about the priority of divorced/widowed women is correct. My ex told me similar stories about her divorced/widowed relatives; their priority changes; the kids come first.

That doesn't mean, however, that the husband becomes a lower priority. Rather, her attention and affection will be divided between the two. If the kids are clamouring for her attention, she will attend to them first. Some men might be resentful because of the divided attention; if they can't accept the reality, they shouldn't be marrying her in the first place.

About virginity or lack of it, of course it doesn't necessarily indicate if a woman is chaste or not (if she lost it in a halal way, or if she sincerely repented). However, there is a point to be kept in mind; a non virgin woman might not pair-bond properly with her husband. Inevitably, subconsciously, she might compare you to her past experiences. The more partners she has had, the more jaded she'll become. That's something to be kept in mind when marrying her.

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54 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

A good man would not allow himself to set up a competition between himself and the children of the lady he married. He would be flexible and accommodate the situation.

Exactly ... that's why I clearly mentioned how much your character should matter.

 

56 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

At the same time a good women would realize that she has children AND a husband and would not allow herself to focus on one aspect and ignore the other one. She would try her best to balance the needs of both. 

Unfortunately not every woman as I mentioned is able to do that....

You are making me repeat myself lol 

I don't know why you even mentioned me or what do you want to say

I clearly said that's what happens in general 

1 hour ago, Abu Hadi said:

That's why the advice or Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) was to marry a spouse with Iman and Taqwa.

I never said you should marry someone without Iman and Taqwa

Does a good character not include these qualities?

1 hour ago, Abu Hadi said:

The jist of the advice is those without Iman and Taqwa, whether they are men or women, previously married or not, kids or not, shouldn't be married. The ones with Iman and Taqwa, whether they are men or women, previously married or not, kids or no kids, shouldn't be single. 

Okay I got it. According to me that's common sense.

 

Wasalam

 

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Salam, I guess the child has to know about the religion and it’s laws. I don’t really see really young marriage as a good thing, Honestly I don’t see it happening (since I am in the US).

Wa Salam 

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1 hour ago, Sabrejet said:

However, there is a point to be kept in mind; a non virgin woman might not pair-bond properly with her husband. Inevitably, subconsciously, she might compare you to her past experiences. The more partners she has had, the more jaded she'll become. That's something to be kept in mind when marrying her.

This apply to both of the genders

That's in human nature ...

But my point was not that .. I was just saying you shouldn't judge a person because he/she is a virgin or not

6 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

Its much easier to find a suitable, young virgin girl; 

Brother now days it is not at all easy to find pure virgin girls or boys. First of all our society has made difficult to fulfill the concept of marriage. And secondly I'm shocked to hear those words by you ...who had some bad experience and you think still it is easy ? Okay (if yes I'm really happy for you taht you have still some positivity left)

6 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

Anyways, this girl contacted me; we knew each other when we were kids. For a few months, all was well and good. We were planning to marry permanently. Soon however, she showed her true colors.

Thank god you found out on time what kind of person she is ( for me "might be" because I don't know her side of story)... Then why are you that much irritated and why is it for you so hard to move on and what's the reason behind mentioned your own personal experience in women related topics? So it indirectly means you are not quite over it... shouldn't you be thankful and instead taking the topic generally you just started to explain your own problems instead giving some thoughtful advise. And brother@Nightclaw that's just a humble advice, if you were really interested in brother @Sabrejet personal issues you could have messaged him privately.

No offense please.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Syeda Batool Rizvi
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Have been going over this thread off and on throughout the day. There is something very wrong with some of the opinions presented here. 

Firstly, I don't understand why don't I see women asking other women 'Will you marry a man with children?' At least not as often as men do. Why is it a question with men? 

Secondly @Sabrejet 's experience with one woman shouldn't define an entire population. Technically, you now have one marriage to your record. In future if a girl rejected you on the basis of your marriage saying she doesn't want to marry anyone who has been previously married ,would you feel that would be fair or justifiable?

Asma bint Umais was married to Jafar ibn Abi Talib,after him to Abu bakr and after him to Imam Ali(عليه السلام).If Imam Ali(عليه السلام) didn't see a problem marrying someone who had two previous husbands and raising a son from his wife's previous marriage as his own (we all know how Imam loved Muhammad bin Abu Bakr) why do men these days find this problematic? 

Why don't men these days feel up to the task of bringing up fatherless children? Why are men apprehensive of comparisons with previous husband? Are they afraid of falling short? Why didn't Imam Ali think of Muhammad ibn Abu bakr as 'baggage'? 

Umme Salma,when she married the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) had two children from her previous marriage , Zainab and Umar. Umar was a companion of Imam Ali (عليه السلام)in Battle of Jammal. Why didn't Prophet (عليه السلام) come up with the arguments that have been presented here? 

I am genuinely curious. What is different here? How Imam Ali(عليه السلام) and RasulAllah (عليه السلام) looked at things and how men today view the same things. Did the aforementioned women not come with some trauma from their previous marriages if they were unhappy ones or with fond memories of their past husbands if the marriages were happy? 

Hmmm....

Edited by starlight
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3 minutes ago, Syeda Batool Rizvi said:

First of all our society has made difficult to fulfill the concept of marriage.

Pre-Nup   pre-nuptial agreement.

A New Jerssy court about 15 years ago upheld a Muslim marriage contract.

So, inside the US, do it both ways.

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5 minutes ago, starlight said:

Have been going over this thread off and on throughout the day. There is something very wrong with some of the opinions presented here. 

Firstly, I don't understand why don't I see women asking other women 'Will you marry a man with children?' At least not as often as men do. Why is it a question with men? 

Secondly @Sabrejet 's experience with one woman shouldn't define an entire population. Technically, you now have one marriage to your record. In future if a girl rejected you on the basis of your marriage saying she doesn't want to marry anyone who has been previously married ,would you feel that would be fair or justifiable?

Asma bint Umais was married to Jafar ibn Abi Talib,after him to Abu bakr and after him to Imam Ali(عليه السلام).If Imam Ali(عليه السلام) didn't see a problem marrying someone who had two previous husbands and raising a son from his wife's previous marriage as his own (we all know how Imam loved Muhammad bin Abu Bakr) why do men these days find this problematic? 

Why don't men these days feel up to the task of bringing up fatherless children? Why are men apprehensive of comaprisons with previous husband? Are the afraid of falling short? Why didn't Imam Ali think of Muhammad ibn Abu bakr as 'baggage'? 

Umme Salma,when she married the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) had two children from her previous marriage , Zainab and Umar. Umar was a companion of Imam Ali (عليه السلام)in Battle of Jammal. Why didn't Prophet (عليه السلام) come up with the arguments that have been presented here? 

I am genuinely curious. What is different here? How Imam Ali(عليه السلام) and RasulAllah (عليه السلام) looked at things and how men today view the same things. Did the aforementioned women not come with some trauma from their previous marriages if they were unhappy ones or with fond memories of their past husbands if the marriages were happy? 

Hmmm....

@SabrejetAnd what do you think of this? I feel as if I would agree with what you have to say because you have been married. I wish more brothers and sisters commented so I can get a general outlook. 

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3 minutes ago, starlight said:

There is something very wrong with some of the opinions presented here. 

Is that my "hint"?

4 minutes ago, starlight said:

to the task of bringing up fatherless children? Why are men apprehensive of comparisons with previous husband? Are the afraid of falling short?

Agree.  

The problem to work around is parental rights. So men have sued the new husband because his right as a parent, the new husband should have consulted the natural parent before _____ activity.

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@Sabrejet

Sorry for not responding to all of your points I really want to, but my computer is acting odd. I am connected to the internet with no problems, but I cannot access sites permanently. It goes on and off; only my phone works and I hate typing long messages on my phone unless it is crucial, so I do apologize. 

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2 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

Her point about the priority of divorced/widowed women is correct. My ex told me similar stories about her divorced/widowed relatives; their priority changes; the kids come first.

That doesn't mean, however, that the husband becomes a lower priority. Rather, her attention and affection will be divided between the two. If the kids are clamouring for her attention, she will attend to them first. Some men might be resentful because of the divided attention; if they can't accept the reality, they shouldn't be marrying her in the first place.

About virginity or lack of it, of course it doesn't necessarily indicate if a woman is chaste or not (if she lost it in a halal way, or if she sincerely repented). However, there is a point to be kept in mind; a non virgin woman might not pair-bond properly with her husband. Inevitably, subconsciously, she might compare you to her past experiences. The more partners she has had, the more jaded she'll become. That's something to be kept in mind when marrying her.

I believe any relationship with any background of a man and a woman needs three things from both sides:

1. Understanding

2. Responsibility

3. Care

Now, let's stop pointing out the specific cases. It is a world of million colors. The people who have these three qualities. Kudos to them. 

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16 minutes ago, starlight said:

Firstly, I don't understand why don't I see women asking other women 'Will you marry a man with children?' At least not as often as men do. Why is it a question with men? 

What is the problem if we do this? Am I not allowed to say this? Is this a prohibition? As stated before, the Messenger of Allah (صلى الله عليه وسلم) it is better to marry a younger woman than an older woman and he gave the reason behind it. He never stated this about the opposite. The question is arising because of the general and fairly justifiable reasons @Sabrejet and @hasanhh have given/alluded to. Not every woman is like Khadijah, especially not nowadays. 

16 minutes ago, starlight said:

 

Edited by Nightclaw
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16 minutes ago, starlight said:

Why don't men these days feel up to the task of bringing up fatherless children? Why are men apprehensive of comaprisons with previous husband? Are the afraid of falling short? Why didn't Imam Ali think of Muhammad ibn Abu bakr as 'baggage'? 

It is no task that men are not up to. People very close to me have done it - all men. Frankly, although I feel a bit dejected, I would still be up for it. 

You cannot compare a man in a woman in this situation. The responsibilities and mental outlook are two different things. If you bring something up that concerns women and I gave my outlook on it from a male point of view, it would not be the same. I think the same juice should be done here. 

19 minutes ago, starlight said:

am genuinely curious. What is different here? How Imam Ali(عليه السلام) and RasulAllah (عليه السلام) looked at things and how men today view the same things. Did the aforementioned women not come with some trauma from their previous marriages if they were unhappy ones or with fond memories of their past husbands if the marriages were happy? 

Hmmm..

You are comparing us to the Messenger of Allah and one of the greatest men to walk the earth after him. You are also forgetting that they do not make women like Khadijah or Hajar or Maryam. You are also disregarding the fact that what @Sabrejet went through is a reality of men, and MOSTLY men. Women go through it to, but the fact that men go through it instead of women most of the time, despite being more women than men in the world, should say something to you. 

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Just now, Nightclaw said:

What is the problem if we do this? Am I not allowed to say this? Is this a prohibition?

You are allowed. However, I was talking more in general terms. Only of shiachat there are a zillion threads where men are asking things like 'will you marry a woman whom is not a virgin or has been previously married' etc. I don't remember anything like this from the sisters. 

 

3 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

Not every woman is like Khadijah, especially not nowadays. 

This isn't about Khadija(sa). I didn't even give her example. 

Calm down. I am just trying to understand why is this an issue with boys these days. 

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2 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

You are comparing us to the Messenger of Allah and one of the greatest men to walk the earth after him

But we are atleast trying to walk on his footsteps. We are trying to act according to his Sunnah and Seera. 

Maybe that's what @starlight meant. 

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