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Why is the ummah so silent on the Uyghur genocide?

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Dubilex

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I myself have lived in China for 9 years. I can read and speak chinese almost like a native. I saw with my own eyes the oppression of uyghur muslims. Not the concentration camps mind you, but I've personally witnessed that Uyghurs can't even say 'salam alaikum'.

In the words of Mesut Özil, Xinjiang is the bleeding wound of the ummah. China is committing a systematic genocide of the muslim Uyghur people. Forced sterilization, razing mosques, putting them in concentration camps where unspeakable atrocities occur.

In fact, I've seen many fellow shias here who links to chinese propaganda and just believe everything the chinese government says. These same people will cry loudly about Palestine and the next second, will turn around and support China's genocide on muslim Uyghurs.

Sad to say, we shias are even worse than sunnis when it comes to Uyghurs. At least there are some sunnis out there speaking up against China's genocide. But as someone who loves Ahl al-Bayt very much, I'm sad to see shias here supporting China even more enthusiastically than sunnis. 

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Bismehe Ta3ala 

Brother, no where have I  seen any Shia on this board supporting China.

Don't make us the scapegoat.

God help them and us and hasten the return of the Imam.

We are one body, and believe me we are aching from what is happening.

Thank you for bringing awareness.

Please explain what can we do as a community?

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN ALLAH 

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Muhammad Hijab, Farid al-Bahrain, Subboor Ahmad and a list of others are standing up against these oppressions of the Uyghurs by the Chinese. Many Sunnis all over are standing up against it. I know about 1 or 2 Shi'a personally, but that is about it so far.

Nobody supports China among the Sunnis.

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Actually I've seen both Shias and Sunnis questioning the narrative, they point to things like doctored videos - different audio being put over a different video (the one one where the guy is supposedly selling a child bride) or that some videos weren't translated correctly, that the official push promoting this started with fundamentalist Christian groups in America and things like that.

The thing is that even if only 10% if what's being reported is true, it is still pretty serious.

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5 hours ago, Nightclaw said:

Muhammad Hijab, Farid al-Bahrain, Subboor Ahmad and a list of others are standing up against these oppressions of the Uyghurs by the Chinese. Many Sunnis all over are standing up against it. I know about 1 or 2 Shi'a personally, but that is about it so far.

Nobody supports China among the Sunnis.

I've seen some people on this board outright denying the genocide. And as their proof they link to official chinese propaganda to prove their point

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There may be a few reasons for the "silence" on this issue

The Turkistan Islamic Party is a problem. It makes the Uyghurs look like violent radicals, even though not all of them support this organization by any means

The other issue is that in the US the media is under strict instructions not to report on the Uyghur issue. Very few people in this country know what is going on in western China. For the large multimedia companies to bring this issue up risks them losing "business interests" in China

Likewise, Joe Biden is hugely pro-CCP.

I worry that there is going to be a genocide against these people within a year or two, and western media will be ordered to whitewash it, or cover it up 

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14 hours ago, Dubilex said:

I myself have lived in China for 9 years. I can read and speak chinese almost like a native. I saw with my own eyes the oppression of uyghur muslims. Not the concentration camps mind you, but I've personally witnessed that Uyghurs can't even say 'salam alaikum'.

In the words of Mesut Özil, Xinjiang is the bleeding wound of the ummah. China is committing a systematic genocide of the muslim Uyghur people. Forced sterilization, razing mosques, putting them in concentration camps where unspeakable atrocities occur.

In fact, I've seen many fellow shias here who links to chinese propaganda and just believe everything the chinese government says. These same people will cry loudly about Palestine and the next second, will turn around and support China's genocide on muslim Uyghurs.

Sad to say, we shias are even worse than sunnis when it comes to Uyghurs. At least there are some sunnis out there speaking up against China's genocide. But as someone who loves Ahl al-Bayt very much, I'm sad to see shias here supporting China even more enthusiastically than sunnis. 

China is not good to the muslims or any community. Everyone knows this. But the point is how much?? 

Exaggerations are all over the place:

Spare sometime to watch these two interviews.

Though, I disagree with what you said because it is not a case of Shias. But I do agree with the topic.  

This needs to be discussed extensively with factual proofs and evidences. 

May Allah bless you! 

 

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6 hours ago, Dubilex said:

I've seen some people on this board outright denying the genocide. And as their proof they link to official chinese propaganda to prove their point

Then teach them otherwise. You have the ability to, so make clarification. You live in China and know what is going on there. I know someone who lives in Xingyi who would also agree with you - but you must clarify.

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9 hours ago, Nightclaw said:

Then teach them otherwise. You have the ability to, so make clarification. You live in China and know what is going on there. I know someone who lives in Xingyi who would also agree with you - but you must clarify.

I am telling people whenever I have the chance. 

But that's the problem where the shia community will question whether the Uyghur genocide is true or not. Just from my personal experience, the sunnis that I know are more open to the truth about Uyghurs. Many other shias will just blindly swallow chinese propaganda. When it comes to the palestinians OTOH, they will uncritically believe everything that comes out of Pallywood, they will uncritically believe everything that Hamas says. They would never think to doubt the authenticity of what palestinians are saying, but when it comes to the Uyghur genocide, they doubt the truth of it and claim they're just being "re-educated".

But this is the problem with the Ummah today, where the Ummah believes in arab supremacy. 

When it comes to the Uyghur however, many muslims are doubting it, calling it a CIA/Mossad information operation etc.

Among many muslims, both shia and sunni, there is this mentality that somehow, China is the lesser of 2 evils and "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". Nobody here will believe me, but I can swear on Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) that China is the bigger enemy of Islam than USA ever is. But most people will just blindly follow Khamenei's lead

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45 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

he cryptically said that this issue is not that black and white, and this is a matter that all reports needed to be treated with vigilance and presence of mind, instead of blindly believing everything.

Yes true. This is an issue which should be brought to light from an unbiased perspective.

It is not easy to accept this after Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan etc. At the same time, it can also not be ignored or denied seeing the media blockout and censorship in China.

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On 12/13/2020 at 10:59 AM, Dubilex said:

I am telling people whenever I have the chance. 

But that's the problem where the shia community will question whether the Uyghur genocide is true or not. Just from my personal experience, the sunnis that I know are more open to the truth about Uyghurs. Many other shias will just blindly swallow chinese propaganda. When it comes to the palestinians OTOH, they will uncritically believe everything that comes out of Pallywood, they will uncritically believe everything that Hamas says. They would never think to doubt the authenticity of what palestinians are saying, but when it comes to the Uyghur genocide, they doubt the truth of it and claim they're just being "re-educated".

But this is the problem with the Ummah today, where the Ummah believes in arab supremacy. 

When it comes to the Uyghur however, many muslims are doubting it, calling it a CIA/Mossad information operation etc.

Among many muslims, both shia and sunni, there is this mentality that somehow, China is the lesser of 2 evils and "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". Nobody here will believe me, but I can swear on Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) that China is the bigger enemy of Islam than USA ever is. But most people will just blindly follow Khamenei's lead

I could not agree more. I will add one thing: the Saudis have sold out and are allowing this to happen. They have sold out Muslims not only in the Arab world, but Muslims all over. This Arab supremacy thing has gotten way out of hand [i.e., honor killings, culture over religion, racism, etc.]. 

I believe you 110% that China is a bigger enemy than the United States. I have a non-Muslim good friend of mine who happens to be my Chinese teacher hoping to leave China, and she even agrees. She absolutely despises the Chinese government, because all they teach in schools is to essentially worship the government and propagate the state ideology in the heads of the masses. You have no room to argue. Doing so will get you in heaps of trouble - as I am sure you know, but you are not Chinese, so the effect isn't the same, I don't think. Nonetheless, I agree with you completely. 

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1] dw.com reported that the ICC has rejected calls to probe "Uighur Genocide".

--ADDED: DW reported sterilizations at 0800GMT broadcast

2] "Uighur detentions in China 'turbo-charged' by technology"

---an algorythm is used to select arrests {OPINE: the College Board has used statistical algorythms to detect cheating; the Pentagon has used keywords and known locations as an algorythm to send arrest lists to supported gov'ts.}

https://www.dw.com/en/uighur-detentions-predictive-policing/a-55877993 

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On 12/13/2020 at 6:40 PM, Nightclaw said:

 I believe you 110% that China is a bigger enemy than the United States. I have a non-Muslim good friend of mine who happens to be my Chinese teacher hoping to leave China, and she even agrees. She absolutely despises the Chinese government, because all they teach in schools is to essentially worship the government and propagate all of their bull**** in the heads of the masses. You have no room to argue. Doing so will get you in heaps of trouble - as I am sure you know, but you are not Chinese, so the effect isn't the same, I don't think. Nonetheless, I agree with you completely. 

Yes. But unfortunately many muslims, both shia and sunnis, kinda have this "enemy of my enemy" mentality when it comes to China. Somehow they see China as the lesser of 2 evils and there is a segment of muslims who actually enthusiastically supports China and hopes China becomes the world's superpower. All just to stick it to the Great Satan

So I mean, muslims will burn french flags over a cartoon, but they won't go out and protest against China's genocide of Uyghurs

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5 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

 

The Rabbi has also penned an article in The Guardian. His plea is for an "unfettered investigation".

The Telegraph, JPost and other publications are carrying a story about the 100 practicing Jews in Keifang that are celebrating cHanuka "in secret" because Judaism is not a recognized religion in the PRC and Judaism is also a "foreign influence" there. Some signs of their existance have already been erased by the State. 

lf you have followed religion in China, there has also been a crackdown on the chris!ians. Daoists and buddhists.

lMH0, The Rabbi is calling for an investigation out of caution. The US, Pompeo, is already trying to make use of this situation; a part of this New Containment of China policy.  Directly tied to this is Likud, the US puppet party at its creation in 67-68. The last time Likud did not follow US desires, it suddenly found itself with only 12 members and its rehab only acknowledged by the election of Rabin years later.

lRl finds itself in the vise again. And there is no Qaddafi-like person capable of following through on threatening demands.

Then there is the PRC itself. Even by the 1990s, China had 1/3 of the World's factory floor space. You want global Depression? Then it has a good military and air force. Twenty years ago, the J-10 was the best export fighter on the World market. And so on.

lf you wish to read it:  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/15/chief-rabbi-silent-plight-uighurs-atrocity-china 

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The Chinese government does not want the same fate as the USSR, where different ethnic groups with separatist tendencies were allowed to break the union apart. The land of Xinjiang (ie East Turkistan) is important for transport and strategic objectives. China isn't going to tolerate separatist sentiments, and part of this includes targeting elements of the Uyghur culture deemed to promote separatism and violate a united national culture. Xinjiang has the same time zone as Beijing despite the large distance, which is how far China goes to create "unity". This is how I understand it. These are not necessarily my views, but China's view, which most countries would do similarly. 

This may explain also why Uyghurs are treated differently than Hui Muslims, the latter also being Muslim, but don't have active separatist movements. 

Putting whatever genuine oppression occurs on the micro level, the macro level has become a chess game, where Western countries pretend to care about the Uyghurs to stick it to China, as part of the new media Cold War. That's the only goal. They don't care about Uyghurs (or most Muslims generally) at all. They are just pawns on the board. Uyghurs and all Muslims deserve dignity and respect. 

When Trump did his famous joy car ride from the hospital, and his supporters were out in the streets, you can notice another flag. I'm not sure how to interpret all this, but it's funny to see Trumpers next to a crescent flag, and nobody seemingly having an issue. 

Trump was sent from God!': MAGA country brings the rally to a stricken  president - POLITICO

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2 hours ago, Dubilex said:

Yes. But unfortunately many muslims, both shia and sunnis, kinda have this "enemy of my enemy" mentality when it comes to China. Somehow they see China as the lesser of 2 evils

It's not a matter of either U.S. or China.

What is needed is a bi-polar world, which keeps both sides honest or even better a multi-polar world.

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1 hour ago, Reza said:

The Chinese government does not want the same fate as the USSR, _X_ where different ethnic groups with separatist tendencies were allowed to break the union apart.

l partially agreed for detailed reasons and will only point out one: where the _X_ is.

What preceded the breakup was a loss of 'faith' and support for the soviet system. A majority of people were finally 'done with it'. That is why it was such a rapid and peaceful breakup.

"Problems" in Chechnya occurred because of BP Oil's "security concerns" over that portion of a pipeline that crossed a corner of Chechnya. So the Russians just moved troops in as they did in Afghanistan; people felt not only betrayed but resisted "control operations" and both countries became damaged and another section of pipeline was laid anyway bypassing Chechnya altogether. This affected the entire Caucus Region.

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1 hour ago, Reza said:

The Chinese government does not want the same fate as the USSR, where different ethnic groups with separatist tendencies were allowed to break the union apart. The land of Xinjiang (ie East Turkistan) is important for transport and strategic objectives. China isn't going to tolerate separatist sentiments, and part of this includes targeting elements of the Uyghur culture deemed to promote separatism and violate a united national culture. Xinjiang has the same time zone as Beijing despite the large distance, which is how far China goes to create "unity". This is how I understand it. These are not necessarily my views, but China's view, which most countries would do similarly. 

This may explain also why Uyghurs are treated differently than Hui Muslims, the latter also being Muslim, but don't have active separatist movements. 

Putting whatever genuine oppression occurs on the micro level, the macro level has become a chess game, where Western countries pretend to care about the Uyghurs to stick it to China, as part of the new media Cold War. That's the only goal. They don't care about Uyghurs (or most Muslims generally) at all. They are just pawns on the board. Uyghurs and all Muslims deserve dignity and respect. 

When Trump did his famous joy car ride from the hospital, and his supporters were out in the streets, you can notice another flag. I'm not sure how to interpret all this, but it's funny to see Trumpers next to a crescent flag, and nobody seemingly having an issue. 

Trump was sent from God!': MAGA country brings the rally to a stricken  president - POLITICO

Yes, because Trump is the only leader willing to stand up to China. He is the one who has sanctioned Xinjiang CCP officials because of their human rights violations. Trump is the only leader who has sanctioned China over their atrocities in Hong Kong and Xinjiang. 

Under Trump, there hasn't been any new war in the Middle East like it was during Obama. Mainstream propaganda has painted Trump as some racist without offering any evidence whatsoever

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11 minutes ago, Dubilex said:

Trump is the only leader who has sanctioned China over their atrocities in Hong Kong and Xinjiang. 

0ne reason he did, lMH0, is because this helped promote his America-First policy. A reversal of the Reagan-Wall Street "service economy" transformation.

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4 hours ago, Dubilex said:

Yes, because Trump is the only leader willing to stand up to China. He is the one who has sanctioned Xinjiang CCP officials because of their human rights violations. Trump is the only leader who has sanctioned China over their atrocities in Hong Kong and Xinjiang. 

Yes, but economic sanctions were always intended from the start,  to help initiate a Cold War that they want. A pretext was then found, so it could be justified. It's dishonest exploitation. If this reason wasn't used, another one would be used, whether real, fictitious, or somewhere in between. No matter what, the economic battle will happen. It's never been about "human rights", but rather hitting at an emerging rival. Let's not pretend it's anything other than this. 

If there was any honest principle, the process would work the other way around, instead of backwards like this. And also, if principle was truly applied about human rights, the US would have to sanction itself!

4 hours ago, Dubilex said:

Under Trump, there hasn't been any new war in the Middle East like it was during Obama. Mainstream propaganda has painted Trump as some racist without offering any evidence whatsoever

Trump hasn't ended them. Although Trump is more unfiltered and pretended to be anti-war, the substance of his foreign policy is similar to his predecessors, because his advisors were the same people. He listens to whatever they say.

There aren't that many non-allied countries in the ME left to invade anymore (except for we know who). And most importantly, Trump was way too lazy and distracted to have the discipline of a "war commander". He's known for not following through and finishing things, so there's no way he'd burden himself with such projects, that require utmost devotion. He’d rather be at his stand up comedy rally or be on Twitter or something.

Trump is definitely racist, whether by conviction or convenience, it doesn't matter. That's the cornerstone of his political appeal and domestic policies. 

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^^^^0ne reason the US uses sanctions so widely is because -for now- the US has the int'l financial institutions all sewn up. Backed up by the NSA and CSS. Remember during the Bosnian massacres when Serbian leaders found their bank accounts had vanished?

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On 12/16/2020 at 1:59 AM, Reza said:

Yes, but economic sanctions were always intended from the start,  to help initiate a Cold War that they want. A pretext was then found, so it could be justified. It's dishonest exploitation. If this reason wasn't used, another one would be used, whether real, fictitious, or somewhere in between. No matter what, the economic battle will happen. It's never been about "human rights", but rather hitting at an emerging rival. Let's not pretend it's anything other than this. 

If there was any honest principle, the process would work the other way around, instead of backwards like this. And also, if principle was truly applied about human rights, the US would have to sanction itself!

Trump hasn't ended them. Although Trump is more unfiltered and pretended to be anti-war, the substance of his foreign policy is similar to his predecessors, because his advisors were the same people. He listens to whatever they say.

There aren't that many non-allied countries in the ME left to invade anymore (except for we know who). And most importantly, Trump was way too lazy and distracted to have the discipline of a "war commander". He's known for not following through and finishing things, so there's no way he'd burden himself with such projects, that require utmost devotion. He’d rather be at his stand up comedy rally or be on Twitter or something.

Trump is definitely racist, whether by conviction or convenience, it doesn't matter. That's the cornerstone of his political appeal and domestic policies. 

You're putting all the blame on Trump and zero blame on China. While the whole world watched China crack down on Hong Kong and genocide uyghurs, Trump has been the only leader willing to stand up to China.

This is a big problem where people tend to give China a free pass and absolve them of all responsibility. Again, this mentality of China being the "lesser evil" is very misguided and dangerous.

And it's a shame because Islam teaches us about the equality of all people, regardless of race and origin. Sadly, the ummah doesn't really care about non-arab muslims.

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20 hours ago, Dubilex said:

Sadly, the ummah doesn't really care about non-arab muslims.

Like the ones in Yemen? Now there is a genocide. While some Uyghurs, the potentially troublemaking ones, are being fed and educated for free by the government.

What "Uyghur genocide"?

 
Quote

 

genocide
/ˈdʒɛnəsʌɪd/
 
noun
noun: genocide; plural noun: genocides
  1. the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
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l forgot l posted this:

On 12/15/2020 at 2:37 AM, hasanhh said:

1] dw.com reported that the ICC has rejected calls to probe "Uighur Genocide".

--ADDED: DW reported sterilizations at 0800GMT broadcast

2] "Uighur detentions in China 'turbo-charged' by technology"

---an algorythm is used to select arrests {OPINE: the College Board has used statistical algorythms to detect cheating; the Pentagon has used keywords and known locations as an algorythm to send arrest lists to supported gov'ts.}

https://www.dw.com/en/uighur-detentions-predictive-policing/a-55877993 

So, now we have this: ethnic based facial recognition

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-55634388 

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China to build Hotel atop demolished Uighur mosque

Different Islamic groups in China have denounced the plans for construction of a hotel on the site of a Uighur mosque demolished by the communist government.
First published by the Telegraph, news on construction of a hotel by Hilton Worldwide Holdings Inc., on the site of Duling Mosque in Hotan Prefecture, Xinxiang has irked Muslim groups across China, reported Taqrib News Agency (TNA).
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12 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

China to build Hotel atop demolished Uighur mosque

Different Islamic groups in China have denounced the plans for construction of a hotel on the site of a Uighur mosque demolished by the communist government.
First published by the Telegraph, news on construction of a hotel by Hilton Worldwide Holdings Inc., on the site of Duling Mosque in Hotan Prefecture, Xinxiang has irked Muslim groups across China, reported Taqrib News Agency (TNA).

This article is Western-sponsored “fake news.” Xinjiang has more mosques than in the U.S. and Europe combined. Now for some truthful news:

Quote

ALGIERS - Algeria is going to have one of the largest mosques in the world, as China State Construction Engineering Corporation is doubling efforts to finish this mega project in 2018.

Source

Quote

Ilijan Anayt said the so-called "forced demolition of mosques" in the region was totally nonsense. The legal rights and interests of the venues for religious activities that have registered in accordance with the law are protected by the government.

"Xinjiang has always attached great importance to the protection and repair of mosques, and the governments at all levels have not only helped and supported the improvement of mosques, but also guaranteed the normal religious needs of religious believers," he added.

Ilijan Anayt said some mosques in Xinjiang were built in the 1980s-1990s or earlier and the facilities in the mosques have become shabby with potential safety hazards, therefore, the regional government has renovated dilapidated facilities and adjusted the overall layouts of those dangerous mosques.

"We have improved the conditions of the mosques and met the needs of the believers, which has been widely welcomed by religious personages and believers," he said.

Source

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I think its somewhere in the middle.

China does have very extreme assimilationist policies that become very inhumane(anti Islamic such as the article brother @Ashvazdanghe has sited); it is most likely due to the separatist Pan Turk and Wahhabi seperatists. This, in part, represents one of China's short comings of its policy, it is heavily targeting all Uyghurs, who are majority Sufi-Sunni, with minorities of non Muslims, even Atheists and Christians.

On the other hand, I do not think that they are getting Auschwitz level of treatment(ie gas chambers), nor are there organs being harvested.

The best thing to do is to do dua for our Uyghur brothers and sisters(those who are truly innocent) and pray China stops its harsh assimilationist policies towards Uyghurs and other non Han minorities in the Xinjiang-Turkestan area.

I would be very wary of some Uyghur groups however, since they have shown connection to either CIA, Islamists(Erdogan and Al Qaeda) or an unholy combination of both. Sadly these are the dominating groups. I think what sets these groups apart from more legitimate groups(ie ones that truly care about Uyghurs) is that they advocate for a separate "East Turkestan" state.

 

 

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I’m going to bring this from @-Rejector- here:

To add to this: Sunni NGOs and outlets like al-Jazeera, financed by the West/Israel and Wahhabi–Salafi petrodollars, are relying on simplistic sectarian propaganda and religiously driven bigotry to advance certain false claims about China’s alleged oppression of Sunni Uighur. Their basic, underlying premise in regard to China is as follows: China is run by the Communist Party, the Communists are atheist infidels, therefore every Western claim about their evils is true and every means may be used to overthrow the evil Communist Party! They use the same logic against Iran and Shias: Iran is run by Shia rafidarafida are bad, therefore every negative claim about them is true and every method may be used to combat them! These Sunnis would rather ally with the West/Israel on the basis of religious bigotry and nothing more. Religious bigotry is their sole calculus.

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