what kind of occulation is our imam in?

[F.M]

i never understood the meaning of ghaibat

some say he has a special dress that makes him completally invisible for the human eye (and het cant be seen by anyone) and there are also saying that he dwells trough the world but isn't getting recognised, I also heard that our imam (عليه السلام) is not only in occulation for the human eye but also for the unmaterialistic- life such as djins..

and what we often forget how about khidr (عليه السلام) i know allah sends khidr when as company to not feel lonely.. but is he himself too in a ghaibat?

 

[GEU_40]

From various traditions, it's a mixture. He can be seen during Haj season in Makkah for example; people see him, but they can't recognize him. He might be among the crowd of azadars during Arba'een, but none recognize him.

Also, the idea that he can roam around invisible, and cover great distances, doesn't go against the Quran and hadith either.

[F.M]

1 minute ago, Sabrejet said:

Also, the idea that he can roam around invisible, and cover great distances, doesn't go against the Quran and hadith either.

subhanallah, may allah save the life of our beloved imam.

soo.. he can be also invisible, an teleportate (tawaul ardh)

[Ashvazdanghe]

Salam surly he does not has an invisible dress but his example is like prophet Yusuf (عليه السلام) that his brothers didn't recognize him until he introduced himself to them by will of Allah that him saved his family & tribe from hunger during drought although he was in Egypt & they were in canan. 

[Zainuu]

1 hour ago, F.M said:

some say he has a special dress that makes him completally invisible for the human eye (and het cant be seen by anyone) and there are also saying that he dwells trough the world but isn't getting recognised, I also heard that our imam (عليه السلام) is not only in occulation for the human eye but also for the unmaterialistic- life such as djins..

By the will of Allah, he is not visible. By the will of Allah, he will appear. I think, he is their but he is just not visible to humans and jinns. 

Regarding al-Khidhr (عليه السلام),

Maybe their are some stories about him in the time of Hazrat Dhul-Qarnayn (عليه السلام) which gave him this virtue. 

https://www.al-islam.org/hayat-al-qulub-vol-1-allamah-muhammad-baqir-al-majlisi/account-dhul-qarnayn

Wallah Alam

[F.M]

1 minute ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam surly he does not has an invisible dress but his example is like prophet Yusuf (عليه السلام) that his brothers didn't recognize him until he introduced himself to them by will of Allah that him saved his family & tribe from hunger during drought although he was in Egypt & they were in canan. 

i had read some hadith also mentioning that he can be invisible too! ididnt knew it either until i rode it

i thiink next time i am going to write such hadith in a special notebook.. i am getting crazy for losing nonestop such treasures hadiths

[GEU_40]

1 minute ago, F.M said:

an teleportate (tawaul ardh)

Yes. Quran verses 27:38 to :41 support this idea. Asif ibn Barkhiya ((عليه السلام)) was a man, not a jinn, and he merely possessed "partial knowledge of the Book". Now imagine our Imam, a Wasi of the Last Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), with his complete knowledge of the Book. It's well within the power bestowed upon him by Allah.

[Zainuu]

@F.M if you want to read about this. Go into the origin: 'The Major Occultation'. 

Last deputy of Imam al Mehdi before major occultation was Sheikh al Samuri (رضي الله عنه).

This is from wikishia, 

From the beginning of his imamate in 260/874, Imam al-Mahdi (a) limited his contacts with the Shi'a to the relations through his specific deputies, the last of whom was 'Ali b. Muhammad al-Samuri who passed away in Sha'ban 15, 329/May 20, 941. He received the following letter from the Imam (a), one week before his death:

"O 'Ali b. Muhammad al-Samuri! May God reward your brothers for [being patient about] your loss, because you will pass away after six days. So prepare yourself, and do not designate anyone as your successor after your death, because the absolute occultation has occurred. There will be no appearance until God gives permission, and that will be after a long time when the hearts are hardened and the world is filled with injustice. Some of my followers will claim to have seen me, but know that whoever claims to have seen me before the uprising of the al-Sufyani and the heavenly cry he is indeed a liar and a slanderer."

In this way, after the demise of al-Samuri, contacts with the Imam (a) through specific deputies ended and a new phase of occultation started, which was called the Major Occultation in later sources.

May Allah bless you

[Ashvazdanghe]

4 minutes ago, F.M said:

i had read some hadith also mentioning that he can be invisible too! ididnt knew it either until i rode it

i thiink next time i am going to write such hadith in a special notebook.. i am getting crazy for losing nonestop such treasures hadiths

I read a story but I don't remember it's source that one day one of companions of Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) asked him about creation of Imams from light so Imam said to him come with me to mosque & ask from people do they see me with you which when they reached to mosque nobody saw Imam although he was physically beside that man only a blind Shia from devoted companions of Imam said that I see Imam beside you because I see it by my heart. 

[313_Waiter]

 

 

 

[GEU_40]

43 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

I read a story but I don't remember it's source that one day one of companions of Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) asked him about creation of Imams from light so Imam said to him come with me to mosque & ask from people do they see me with you which when they reached to mosque nobody saw Imam although he was physically beside that man only a blind Shia from devoted companions of Imam said that I see Imam beside you because I see it by my heart. 

Even certain shias find things like this difficult to believe for some reason. Add to this traditions indicating that the Imam can be present in more than one place at once.

They can't answer the question of how Imam Hussain ((عليه السلام)) is buried where he is, if Imam Sajjad ((عليه السلام)) was chained in Yazid's palace at that time..

There is a hadith that goes something like "say what you want about us (ahle bayt); you'll never quite capture our station. Just keep us away from divinity (i.e. don't equate us with Allah)".

[F.M]

59 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

but know that whoever claims to have seen me before the uprising of the al-Sufyani and the heavenly cry he is indeed a liar and a slanderer."

the thing which i also was questioning myself for a long time..

are we able to see our imam after the rising of sufyani? its said sufyani will rule for around 9 months (quit long) is it then possible to meet our beloved imam even before his return?

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by F.M

[F.M]

53 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

 

 

 

TBH, i have seen some of his videos.. i have still no idea who exactly he is and what he did study.. coz he literally don't use any source..how can it be trusted?

[313_Waiter]

32 minutes ago, F.M said:

TBH, i have seen some of his videos.. i have still no idea who exactly he is and what he did study.. coz he literally don't use any source..how can it be trusted?

Yes same but he wants us to research and find out for ourselves if his concepts make sense, he said in one of his videos not to accept whatever he is saying but to go out and research ourselves

 

[GEU_40]

39 minutes ago, F.M said:

are we able to see our imam after the rising of sufyani? its said sufyani will rule for around 9 months (quit long) is it then possible to meet our beloved imam even before his return?

There is a context for this hadith. Its said in the sense that whoever claims to have met him; it's to discourage people trying to act as his representatives.  You can definitely see him and meet him Insha'Allah; people who recognize him will never reveal that they have met them in their lifetime.

Remember that our Imam is alive, and will help us and meet us, or send someone to us, if we are in dire trouble.

[GEU_40]

Another point: if at any point one of the 313 are alive today, they have seen him, or will see him, before the rise of the Sufyani. They just won't claim they have seen him to the general public.

[Zainuu]

1 hour ago, F.M said:

are we able to see our imam after the rising of sufyani? its said sufyani will rule for around 9 months (quit long) is it then possible to meet our beloved imam even before his return?

Salaam Sister, 

After Sufyani's rise, signs of reappearance will become very apparent. Imam's faithful servants might experience spiritual discourses about Imam's advent. That is my thought. Wallah Alam.

Yes it is possible to meet him. Many people have actually met Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف). but no one makes such a claim. If someone says it, he is a lier. 

Those who meet, do write it somewhere as a memory but it's mostly undisclosed until they die. Also, I don't know anyone who has seen Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف), though they have met him. The stories I have heard, mention the voice but not the face of anyone.

Do search Masjid e Sahla. That's the place, where many such incidents have actually happened.

May Allah bless you and all of us with such a meeting. 

 

[Zainuu]

31 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

Remember that our Imam is alive, and will help us and meet us, or send someone to us, if we are in dire trouble.

This made me remember a story from Allama Tabatabai's life. He himself narrated this interesting incident:

Quote

 

When I was studying in Najaf, I used to earn my living by receiving a monthly wage from Tabriz. Once, as a result of a conflict between the two countries [Iran and Iraq], my monthly salary was stopped and my savings were dwindling. One day I was sitting at the table studying when suddenly my train of thought was disrupted by the worry that until when will the strained relations between Iraq and Iran continue as we don’t have any money, and we are strangers in this land. As soon as this though entered my mind I realized that someone was knocking loudly on the door. I went and opened the door and saw that there was a man at the door. He was tall, his beard was dyed with henna, his turban (amama) was tied in a special manner on his head, and he was wearing a distinctive outfit. As soon as the door opened he said, “Salamun Alaykum”.

I replied his salam, and he said,

“I am Shah Husayn Wali! God says [to you] “in these 18 years when have I ever let you go hungry that you have now abandoned your studies and fallen into the thought that until when will the relations between Iraq and Iran remained strained and when will they send us money!” Farewell to you!” I also bid him farewell and closed the door.

I sat at the table. At that time I lifted my head from my hands, and then a number of questions arose for me – that did I actually walk to the door, or did I witness this scholar sitting here with my head in my hands?! Had I been asleep or awake?! Had the man called himself Shaykh Husayn Wali or Shah Husayn Wali. His appearance was not appropriate with the title Shah, nor was I sure that he was a Shaykh!

Some time passed and these questions remained unanswered, until a letter arrived from Tabriz that I should go there.

In the morning, according to my regular schedule, I went to Najaf’s Wadius Salam [graveyard] between dawn and sunrise, and walked between the graves reciting Sura Fatiha. Suddenly I saw a grave that was obviously an important one. I read the gravestone and saw that after many inscriptions in praise of the deceased it was written: the late Shah Husayn Wali! I realized that it was the same individual that had visited my home in Najaf. I looked at the date of his death and saw that it was nearly 300 years earlier.

I was surprised at his sentence “in 18 years when have we ever let you go hungry”, because I had spent 9 years in Najaf, and I was 35 years old. So why 18 years?! After some thought I understood that it was exactly 18 years that I had put on the turban (amama) and the clothes of a soldier of Imam Zaman (aj)!”

‘Allamah Tabataba’i

 

 

[GEU_40]

@Zainuu if we are related in some way, then a certain person amongst our ancestors/relatives in India might have seen someone in the early days of the British Raj, in the mid 1800's. For various reasons, I can't disclose the details (names, incident) to anyone outside my family. Also, the event is rather vague in my memory; the last people of my grandfather's generation, who knew about it, are now dead; I can't ask them to refresh my memory anymore.

All I do know is that either something did happen, or that my grandmother and her ancestors lied; she wasn't the type of person to invoke Allah's wrath by lying about something like this.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Sabrejet

[F.M]

41 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

Another point: if at any point one of the 313 are alive today, they have seen him, or will see him, before the rise of the Sufyani. They just won't claim they have seen him to the general public.

thats possibly true.. may allah protect them

Edited December 8, 2020 by F.M

[F.M]

19 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

Salaam Sister, 

After Sufyani's rise, signs of reappearance will become very apparent. Imam's faithful servants might experience spiritual discourses about Imam's advent. That is my thought. Wallah Alam.

Yes it is possible to meet him. Many people have actually met Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف). but no one makes such a claim. If someone says it, he is a lier. 

Those who meet, do write it somewhere as a memory but it's mostly undisclosed until they die. Also, I don't know anyone who has seen Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف), though they have met him. The stories I have heard, mention the voice but not the face of anyone.

Do search Masjid e Sahla. That's the place, where many such incidents have actually happened.

May Allah bless you and all of us with such a meeting. 

 

yes, iknow about masjid al sahlah is one of the places where lots miracles happened.. i visited that place, it felt like the ground under my feet was trilling... such a beautifull place

i hope that his return is really near.. cos i see daily way to much people getting a kind of burn out of this life.. everyone is eagerly waiting for his return

[F.M]

6 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

@Zainuu if we are related in some way, then a certain person amongst our ancestors/relatives in India might have seen someone in the early days of the British Raj, in the mid 1800's. For various reasons, I can't disclose the details (names, incident) to anyone outside my family. Also, the event is rather vague in my memory; the last people of my grandfather's generation, who knew about it, are now dead.

All I do know is that either something did happen, or that my grandmother and her ancestors lied; she wasn't the type of person to invoke Allah's wrath by lying about something like this.

do you even know that waaaay to many people saw him.. in fact its a kind of obligotory for a shia to have seen his imam at least once in his lifetime.. the only thing is that our imam isnt getting recognised only later on you will realise.. and most people aren't going to tell their meeting etc..

also imam al mahdi visits not only shias also non muslims he is for everyone..

 

[GEU_40]

1 minute ago, F.M said:

do you even know that waaaay to many people saw him.. in fact its a kind of obligotory for a shia to have seen his imam at least once in his lifetime.. the only thing is that our imam isnt getting recognised only later on you will realise.. and most people aren't going to tell their meeting etc..

also imam al mahdi visits not only shias also non muslims he is for everyone..

 

True; however, a few ever realize that they have seen him or met him. That is a rare honour that I pray all of here will receive at least once in our lifetime.

[F.M]

what can we all do to hasten his return..

i had some ideas..

• fasting 3 days in a row (intention to ask allah for his return)
• spreading the message of ahlalbayt worldwide
• talking to orthodox,hindus,etc.. about imam mahdi/jesus (hindus belief in imam mahdi too)

its crazy too see how the jews are busy working for their messiah.. while we shias cant do our best to lead and join our holy imam, we should more do our best

[Zainuu]

32 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

@Zainuu if we are related in some way, then a certain person amongst our ancestors/relatives in India might have seen someone in the early days of the British Raj, in the mid 1800's. For various reasons, I can't disclose the details (names, incident) to anyone outside my family. Also, the event is rather vague in my memory; the last people of my grandfather's generation, who knew about it, are now dead; I can't ask them to refresh my memory anymore.

All I do know is that either something did happen, or that my grandmother and her ancestors lied; she wasn't the type of person to invoke Allah's wrath by lying about something like this.

I can't say anything. Many people in my family, some who don't even pray, claim they have sern Imam in dream. This is just an illusion in their mind. Every light is not divine light. Every elderly honored man with a robe on his body and a stick in his hand is not Imam (عليه السلام).

I am not saying they lie but they have an illusion. 

What I am sure about is that Imam will not meet a person who will claim the meeting in either. So, whoever says it can't be correct anyways.

Maybe your grandmother didn't lie but had an illusion?? Even people in my family here have said such things. They have an illusion. 

[Zainuu]

16 minutes ago, F.M said:

what can we all do to hasten his return..

i had some ideas..

• fasting 3 days in a row (intention to ask allah for his return)
• spreading the message of ahlalbayt worldwide
• talking to orthodox,hindus,etc.. about imam mahdi/jesus (hindus belief in imam mahdi too)

its crazy too see how the jews are busy working for their messiah.. while we shias cant do our best to lead and join our holy imam, we should more do our best

Pray the salaat of Imam Mehdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) everyday. I told you about Sahifa al Mehdi. You can look into it for supplications. 

Also, the Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) will not come before the prescribed time and that time will never be revealed. If someone claims such a thing. By Allah, he has lied. 

What I say is to just keep on trying to become better believer in order to join the ranks of 313. That's what we should do. Inshallah, Imam will meet us before advent and after advent if we try our best to enter the ranks of 313.

[F.M]

3 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

I can't say anything. Many people in my family, some who don't even pray, claim they have sern Imam in dream. This is just an illusion in their mind. Every light is not divine light. Every elderly honored man with a robe on his body and a stick in his hand is not Imam (عليه السلام).

I am not saying they lie but they have an illusion. 

What I am sure about is that Imam will not meet a person who will claim the meeting in either. So, whoever says it can't be correct anyways.

Maybe your grandmother didn't lie but had an illusion?? Even people in my family here have said such things. They have an illusion. 

but how can we all know a difference between illusion and the real one?

it has been said that everyone who sees the ahlalbayt in his dreams is as he has seen in real life, right?

 

[GEU_40]

Just now, Zainuu said:

I can't say anything. Many people in my family, some who don't even pray, claim they have sern Imam in dream. This is just an illusion in their mind. Every light is not divine light. Every elderly honored man with a robe on his body and a stick in his hand is not Imam (عليه السلام).

I am not saying they lie but they have an illusion. 

What I am sure about is that Imam will not meet a person who will claim the meeting in either. So, whoever says it can't be correct anyways.

Maybe your grandmother didn't lie but had an illusion?? Even people in my family here have said such things. They have an illusion. 

I read another possible explanation about meeting him that made sense. Those who meet him, and recognize him, and converse with him, it's in a state that's neither dream nor complete physical reality. Illusion might be an inaccurate word here.

We do have stories about how the Imam sent someone else to help though, in the mundane physical word, like the event you quoted above.

[F.M]

1 minute ago, Zainuu said:

Also, the Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) will not come before the prescribed time and that time will never be revealed. If someone claims such a thing. By Allah, he has lied. 

really!!

i didnt know that.. i tought allah could always change his mind and make it even closer

soo imam al mahdi himself knows the exact date before he reamarges?  or is it also unkown to him?

[F.M]

oh wait i think i misunderstood

illusions are everything which you see while being awake or when you closed your'e eyes for couple seconds

and dreams happen when you are fully asleep, right?

soo from the messages i read.. dreams cant be trusted or opposite?

[Zainuu]

2 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

I read another possible explanation about meeting him that made sense. Those who meet him, and recognize him, and converse with him, it's in a state that's neither dream nor complete physical reality. Illusion might be an inaccurate word here.

We do have stories about how the Imam sent someone else to help though, in the mundane physical word, like the event you quoted above.

Yes agree. 

Those who meet or see a dream or hear a voice or are semi-concious during the incident, don't claim it, that's it. 

If someone claims it, then it might be a lie or maybe he just saw something else and related the incident to Imam (عليه السلام). If any person in this world sees the Imam (in any state), he will never ever claim it. 

[GEU_40]

4 minutes ago, F.M said:

Allah could always change his mind

He is al-Samad i.e. Eternal or Absolute. He doesn't change His mind.

Properly understanding the concept of Bada', however, will answer your question.

[Zainuu]

4 minutes ago, F.M said:

soo imam al mahdi himself knows the exact date before he reamarges?  or is it also unkown to him?

No, I don't think so. Only Allah knows. 

5 minutes ago, F.M said:

didnt know that.. i tought allah could always change his mind and make it even closer

Time fixed by Allah. The one who fixes, can change it too. But we don't know. 

We can only pray. 

 

[F.M]

2 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

He is al-Samad i.e. Eternal or Absolute. He doesn't change His mind.

Properly understanding the concept of Bada', however, will answer your question.

yes i meant bada.

but does imam mahdi himself know when the date is or ahlalbayt? or does only allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows it?

[Zainuu]

2 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

He is al-Samad i.e. Eternal or Absolute. He doesn't change His mind.

Properly understanding the concept of Bada', however, will answer your question.

Their was a hadith in al-Kafi which said that Allah did fix the time to some years. But Allah extended it after Karbala. Also, Allah changed it again and kept it a secret. I shared that hadith in a similar thread somewhere.

Their are many threads on this now. 

Credit goes to sister @F.M