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In the Name of God بسم الله

No longer feel like being shia

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Guest Born shia

This might be a rant..

I don’t feel like being shia because of all of the misogony, pagan-like cermonies (muharram) and grave yards visits that goes under the umbrella of shiism.

I use to feel like shia islam was progressive and modern but it’s just like sunni islam but less God centric. I feel like being a born shia gave me a community and a feeling of belonging in the west but my values have shifted under corona where I’ve had the opportunity to think without disturbances. It hit me hard when I realized that much of the belief still consists of other people (scholars) telling us what to do/not do based on their views. This phenomenon has created priesthood tendencies and shaming people who interpret things differently. I don’t feel like I can be following a cleric blindly without knowing what’s going on and wether I can have my own opinion about it. (I know this is the core of shia islam and I’ll probably be hated on for saying this). Most people claim that these men have spend their entire life for this purpose and that we should applaud them with respect by following their rulings. The problem is that they’re very attached to their environment and culture around them. Especially the political climate (hijab mandatory in Iran for ALL women, how is that islamic?). And when will a woman be able to interpret and send out fatwas? Why is it limited to men? I feel like living in the wrong era where true islam has been forgotten and mixed so hard with culture, politics and other environmental factors that it no longer resemble islam (both sunni and shia islam). For now I feel like reading the Quran, praying, being good to people and help out where I can. Maybe someday I’ll be speaking up against this system. Maybe one day I’ll return to shia islam. But as long as it’s in this condition I can no longer stay.

 

Sorry for the rant.

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All Muslim nations with exception of a few have unislmic laws. Doesn't make Islam bad does it? Why does Iran's religious laws make shia Islam bad for you? Also letting you know that western lifestyle and values are incompatible with islam. Don't judge religion with your values, judge your values with religion. Don't end up joining the far left "islamics" who live to please people instead of allah

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1 hour ago, Guest Born shia said:

This might be a rant..

I don’t feel like being shia because of all of the misogony, pagan-like cermonies (muharram) and grave yards visits that goes under the umbrella of shiism.

I use to feel like shia islam was progressive and modern but it’s just like sunni islam but less God centric. I feel like being a born shia gave me a community and a feeling of belonging in the west but my values have shifted under corona where I’ve had the opportunity to think without disturbances. It hit me hard when I realized that much of the belief still consists of other people (scholars) telling us what to do/not do based on their views. This phenomenon has created priesthood tendencies and shaming people who interpret things differently. I don’t feel like I can be following a cleric blindly without knowing what’s going on and wether I can have my own opinion about it. (I know this is the core of shia islam and I’ll probably be hated on for saying this). Most people claim that these men have spend their entire life for this purpose and that we should applaud them with respect by following their rulings. The problem is that they’re very attached to their environment and culture around them. Especially the political climate (hijab mandatory in Iran for ALL women, how is that islamic?). And when will a woman be able to interpret and send out fatwas? Why is it limited to men? I feel like living in the wrong era where true islam has been forgotten and mixed so hard with culture, politics and other environmental factors that it no longer resemble islam (both sunni and shia islam). For now I feel like reading the Quran, praying, being good to people and help out where I can. Maybe someday I’ll be speaking up against this system. Maybe one day I’ll return to shia islam. But as long as it’s in this condition I can no longer stay.

 

Sorry for the rant.

It's ok brother. 

You don't actually need to tell us. Forums are for discussions, questioning and answering and debating. 

I agree with your first points though. Many shia muslims are blind believers and follow a lot of baseless stuff. For example, Astrology is strictly quoted as Kufr by Imam Ali (عليه السلام) but I have seen a plathora of Shias reaching out to astrologers.  

"Real Shia of Ali (عليه السلام) are those who not only respect Ali (عليه السلام) but even listen and follow Ali (AS)"

May Allah guide you brother. And if you have any questions you can ask any time. 

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1 hour ago, Guest Born shia said:

pagan-like cermonies (muharram) and grave yards visits that goes under the umbrella of shiism.

How is is it pagan?? During Hajj you have to pray towards it. Does that mean we worship the Kaaba? NO ABSOULUTLY NOT.

So there's nothing wrong with praying towards Imam Al Hussain (عليه السلام).

Tatbir on the other had in my opinion and many others opinion is haram. Splitting open peoples heads is not the message the imam wanted to deliver. Not only is it wrong but its WAY too extreme and violent. So please don't leave Islam.

Don't become a Murtad. Even returning wont save you from the wrath of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

So please think this over before you make a big mistake.

Wassalam  

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3 hours ago, ServantOfTheHousehold said:

How is is it pagan?? During Hajj you have to pray towards it. Does that mean we worship the Kaaba? NO ABSOULUTLY NOT.

So there's nothing wrong with praying towards Imam Al Hussain (عليه السلام).

Tatbir on the other had in my opinion and many others opinion is haram. Splitting open peoples heads is not the message the imam wanted to deliver. Not only is it wrong but its WAY too extreme and violent. So please don't leave Islam.

Don't become a Murtad. Even returning wont save you from the wrath of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

So please think this over before you make a big mistake.

Wassalam  

Excuse me? But what is it exactly that you’re telling me? That I’m no longer a muslim for not being shia? It’s stuff like this! Mind your own imaan brother.

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4 hours ago, notme said:

You'll be ok. 

Duas for your guidance and patience. 

Islam is perfect, Muslims are not. Don't give up. 

Thank you! I’ll remember that.

3 hours ago, smma said:

All Muslim nations with exception of a few have unislmic laws. Doesn't make Islam bad does it? Why does Iran's religious laws make shia Islam bad for you? Also letting you know that western lifestyle and values are incompatible with islam. Don't judge religion with your values, judge your values with religion. Don't end up joining the far left "islamics" who live to please people instead of allah

 
Disagree about the west. Some of the most sincere people I’ve ever met in my life are white atheists or so-called “westerners”. I’m also western because this is my geographical belonging. Also what are my values exactly? As far as I know I just woke up one day and had a set of values not by choice. I need to figure out what these values are through the world around me and the Holy Book of God until I find my truth. I don’t want to be a blind munafiq who never thought for themselves. Call it a spiritual awakening.

3 hours ago, realizm said:

:salam:

Watched salafi stuff during confinement ? 

Also yes. But they’re crazy either way everyone knows that. It was the shia part that hit me. Hard.

3 hours ago, Zainuu said:

It's ok brother. 

You don't actually need to tell us. Forums are for discussions, questioning and answering and debating. 

I agree with your first points though. Many shia muslims are blind believers and follow a lot of baseless stuff. For example, Astrology is strictly quoted as Kufr by Imam Ali (عليه السلام) but I have seen a plathora of Shias reaching out to astrologers.  

"Real Shia of Ali (عليه السلام) are those who not only respect Ali (عليه السلام) but even listen and follow Ali (AS)"

May Allah guide you brother. And if you have any questions you can ask any time. 

I know, I needed to rant badly. And yes, we need to be more open to find our own truth and feel our gut when it comes to stuff that contradicts the Quran and whole belief really. 
I hope we as a ummah make it and become better versions of ourselves. Amen.

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It sounds like your issues are more community oriented rather than religion oriented. 

It's true that many muslimeen, shi'a included, tend to have deviated from the core teachings of religion in our day to day practice and gatherings.

It's also specifically true for the shi'a community that some people seem to have confused the means with the ends. Also among some communities there is clearly a lot more cultural influence than religious.

Having said this, I don't think the core beliefs and teachings of our madhab are the issue here, rather their lack of understanding and implementation by the masses.

The deviations of the people shouldn't cause you to give up your religious identity. In fact what the religious community needs are more people who are prepared to revert to our core teachings. 

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13 hours ago, Guest Born shia said:

(scholars) telling us what to do/not do based on their views

Obviously, an ignorant, (like me, for instance, who can't even understand Arabic) cannot logically form an opinion of my own that'll most probably be consistent with the religion. That's why we have scholars who study for decades. Maraji are the most qualified jurists of their time and it is only obvious that the ignorant masses who want to practice the religion correctly will follow their guidance. This no way means that the scholars issue fatwas out of thin air. There's a well understood system that is followed in jurisprudence so that the rulings are based on Quran and Sunnah (Ijma, if the solution to a jurisprudential problem is not to be found in Quran and sunnah. And finally, the independent reasoning, Ijtihad, of the learnt jurist, if even Ijma is silent or not formed over an issue). This also doesn't mean that a believer, man or woman, cannot study things by themselves and determine the correct islamic rulings. Both men and women can study to become a Mujtahid/Mujtahida, and henceforth not follow any scholar but deduce rulings by him/herself.  But becoming a Mujtahid/Mujtahida is difficult and takes a lifetime. Something that is not possible for everyone to do. That's why ijtihad is Al-Wajib al-Kifa'i (collective obligation). 

 

 

13 hours ago, Guest Born shia said:

Why is it limited to men?

It's no way limited to men. Lady Amin is a famous example of a female jurist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Amin

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@The Green Knight

:bismillah:

اُدۡعُ اِلٰى سَبِيۡلِ رَبِّكَ بِالۡحِكۡمَةِ وَالۡمَوۡعِظَةِ الۡحَسَنَةِ وَجَادِلۡهُمۡ بِالَّتِىۡ هِىَ اَحۡسَنُؕ اِنَّ رَبَّكَ هُوَ اَعۡلَمُ بِمَنۡ ضَلَّ عَنۡ سَبِيۡلِهٖ وَهُوَ اَعۡلَمُ بِالۡمُهۡتَدِيۡنَ‏ 
(16:125) (O Prophet), call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation,122 and reason with them in the best manner possible.123 Surely your Lord knows best who has strayed away from His path, and He also knows well those who are guided to the Right Way.
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13 hours ago, ServantOfTheHousehold said:

How is is it pagan?? During Hajj you have to pray towards it. Does that mean we worship the Kaaba? NO ABSOULUTLY NOT.

So there's nothing wrong with praying towards Imam Al Hussain (عليه السلام).

Tatbir on the other had in my opinion and many others opinion is haram. Splitting open peoples heads is not the message the imam wanted to deliver. Not only is it wrong but its WAY too extreme and violent. So please don't leave Islam.

Don't become a Murtad. Even returning wont save you from the wrath of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

So please think this over before you make a big mistake.

Wassalam  

Careful man some people on Shiachat will get offended that you said tatbir is bad lol.

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3 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

The deviations of the people shouldn't cause you to give up your religious identity. In fact what the religious community needs are more people who are prepared to revert to our core teachings. 

Exactly!! 

Just being born a Shia, doesn't makes anyone a Shia. 

We must follow the principles and not the people.

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Sorry but your posts makes no sense. Being Shia is beleif in the succesion of Hz Ali. And a specific set of fundamentals to determine what sub group of Shia  Everything else is up to you to figure out on your journey.

Some Shia are more conservative, some more liberal,some prefer literalism others prefer rationality. It's all just perspective.

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I use to feel like shia islam was progressive and modern 

Islam is the religion that would make you always follow that right justice way (that is not defined by ourselves rather it would be shown to us by God trough our striving toward Him) in this so called progressive and modern life.

So do not let the life of the world deceive you, nor let the Deceiver deceive you concerning Allah. 31:33

 

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14 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

So do not let the life of the world deceive you, nor let the Deceiver deceive you concerning Allah. 31:33

 

What if this is the shia community? They judge and deceive me into going astray from the core belief? Why is it always the naked lady with a bottle of whiskey that is deceiving. Your own people can be just as bad influence on your imaan.

Progression is essential and not to be associated with atheism or deviation from the religion. Progression is removing old culture and look at interpretations with a new fresh pair of glasses. We should know more than the people before us, so we obviously continue to find the truth. 

 

14 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

(that is not defined by ourselves rather it would be shown to us by God trough our striving toward Him)

You have to follow your own path and YOU have to chose it for yourself. This can only be done by reflecting on YOUR core values in life and what makes sense to you. You can’t be following religion from peoples perspective as it will make one a ‘follower’ and not a ‘believer’. We need to promote diversity in thoughts and interpretations with an open mind without any cultural influence. We need to go back to the core belief. I’ll inshaAllah by God’s will find my truth one day. 

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20 hours ago, Guest Ahmad said:

Maraji are the most qualified jurists of their time and it is only obvious that the ignorant masses who want to practice the religion correctly will follow their guidance.

Exactly. Guidance. As in they can help us - but their words are not the last. Plus they do so many layers of ihtiyad (precautions) to a point it gets too tiring. I’ll listen to islamic thinkers from all sects and be openminded with my understanding of their interpretations of the Quran. Most thinkers have done brilliant work but are not seen as equals to clerics because they’re not +70 of age. 

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On 12/4/2020 at 1:22 PM, realizm said:

Watched salafi stuff during confinement ? 

Too many Mufti Abu Layth podcasts while in quarantine 

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What if this is the shia community? They judge and deceive me into going astray from the core belief? Why is it always the naked lady with a bottle of whiskey that is deceiving. Your own people can be just as bad influence on your imaan.

Progression is essential and not to be associated with atheism or deviation from the religion. Progression is removing old culture and look at interpretations with a new fresh pair of glasses. We should know more than the people before us, so we obviously continue to find the truth. 

Yes what if? I have witnessed so many deceiving people in Shia community but do I let it effect me my religion and my emotional and reasoning, no, because the essential of Islam is do everything for Allah sake, not for others impression or wanting to get praising from others.

Quote

You have to follow your own path and YOU have to chose it for yourself. This can only be done by reflecting on YOUR core values in life and what makes sense to you. You can’t be following religion from peoples perspective as it will make one a ‘follower’ and not a ‘believer’. We need to promote diversity in thoughts and interpretations with an open mind without any cultural influence. We need to go back to the core belief. I’ll inshaAllah by God’s will find my truth one day

Yes you need to choose yourself and no one can force you. As long you follow what you choose, the justice Right way does not depend on your definition of what is right and wrong, It is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) who will show us, inshallah.

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On 12/4/2020 at 11:56 AM, Guest Born shia said:

Sorry for the rant.

Why?

l have only read your OP so far. l suggest you do what Quran reveals and OT has written: Take the lbrahim -(عليه السلام). mode until you get things settled. Look forward to the Last Day, Do not break the First and Second Commandments, Pray five times daily, and whatever zakat you can afford. Then you won't waste your life.

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8 hours ago, Guest Born shia said:

Progression is removing old culture and look at interpretations with a new fresh pair of glasses.

:sorry:"Yarrabi. this Guest writes like an erratic liberal."

"Progression" is not socio-cultural destruction, but the elimination of baggage. No need for a sliderule when you have digital calculator. Not need for a harness or harnessmaker when you have an automobile. There comes a need for driver's licenses because of the speeds involved while there was no need for a "horse license" because the horse will also take care of itself.

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Don't worry, focus on theology for a start. You'll come back inshallah. Take a break from social media and everything. It seems that maybe you've been spending a lot of in the online world? Am I correct? If that's the case, you might always be disappointed, a lot of nonsense out there. 

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8 hours ago, Strange Samurai said:

I have a question for moderators @ShiaChat Mod and @Hameedeh i posted a comment here which i cannot see. Can you please tell what happened to it ?

Mods remove posts that are off-topic or inappropriate. If you have a question about your own reply in this thread, you should send a private message (PM), not bring it up here. The OP, and everybody else,  does not need to read posts that are off-topic or inappropriate. 

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6 hours ago, ShiaChat Mod said:

Mods remove posts that are off-topic or inappropriate. If you have a question about your own reply in this thread, you should send a private message (PM), not bring it up here. The OP, and everybody else,  does not need to read posts that are off-topic or inappropriate. 

Ok I am guilty I apologize for if it was inappropriate.

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