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In the Name of God بسم الله

Is the purpose of women’s lives to serve their husbands and to be beautiful for them?

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:salam:

I don’t know how to make this sound less misogynistic (I’m sorry), but do women actualise their purpose in life by worshipping Allah through servitude to their husbands? I mean, based on this tradition, can’t we say that women were created to serve their husbands and to be “obedient” to them.

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In authentic traditions, people asked Ja‘far as-Sadiq regarding the creation of Hawwa’. They said, “Some people say that Allah created Hawwa’ from the left rib of Adam?” Imam said, “Allah is Purer and Higher than what these people allege. One who utters such a thing believes that Allah is not Omnipotent. They provide opportunities for those who taunt and raise objections. Why do they make such statements? Allah shall decide between us and them.”

Then he said, “The Almighty created Adam and commanded the Angels to pay obedience to him. Then He induced sleep on Adam. When Adam was asleep, the Almighty created a new being and placed her between the feet of Adam so that women remain obedient to men. Hawwa’ moved and woke Adam. Hawwa’ was ordered to separate from Adam. Adam’s sight fell on Hawwa’ and he beheld a beautiful face. He saw that she resembled him, but was a female.

He began to converse with her and asked who she was. Hawwa’ spoke in his tongue and said that she was a creature of Allah as he could see.” Adam addressed the Almighty and asked, “Who is this beautiful creation that attracts me? Seeing whom I lost my fear?”

“She is my slave-girl, Hawwa’,” said the Lord. “Do you want her to live with you, remain attached to you, converse with you and do what you bide her?”

“Yes, my Lord!” replied Adam, “As long as I live, I shall continue to thank you.”

“Then you pray for her and request me so.”

At that moment Allah created in Adam the desire of seeking the nearness of woman and He had already taught Adam the tenets of faith. Adam said, “My Lord! You have permitted me to take her, but what can I give in return so that You are pleased?”

“Impart to her religious knowledge and I shall be satisfied with you.”

“I shall do as You desire,” agreed Adam, “I accept!” said Allah, “I hereby marry her to you. Take her.”

Adam called Hawwa’ towards him but the Almighty told Adam to get up himself and go towards Hawwa’. So Adam arose and moved towards Hawwa’. If this had not been so women would have required to come as suitors to men. This was the account of Hawwa’.

Hayat al Qulub vol 1


In another tradition attributed to Rasulullah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), the advantages or freedoms that men have in the jurisprudential sense could be attributed to the way Hawwa was created from the leftover dust of Adam:

Quote

In another report it is mentioned that ‘Abdullah bin Salaam asked the Messenger of Allah why Adam is named thus. The Prophet replied it was because Adam has been created from the dust of the Earth. ‘Abdullah asked whether Adam was created from dust of one particular location or from a mixture of dust collected from various places. The Prophet said, “The dust resembles him most because it is white, red, green, pink and blue. It has sweet, sour tastes, agreeable and disagreeable temperaments, hard and soft qualities of mind. This has caused the people to be soft and hard, red, black, yellow, pink based on different types of soil.”
‘Abdullah asked him whether Hawwa’ was created from Adam or Adam created from Hawwa’. The Prophet replied that Hawwa’ was created from Adam and if Adam had been created from Hawwa’, the woman would have had the prerogative to divorce.
‘Abdullah asked whether Hawwa’ was created from a specific part of Adam’s body or from this whole body. The Prophet replied, “From a specific portion and if she had been created from his whole body the commands of retaliation would have been equal for both.
‘Abdullah asked whether she was created from the external part of Adam’s body or from an internal portion. The Prophet replied, “From the internal. If she were created from an external part, she would have been allowed, like men, to go out without Hijab (veil). Therefore it is necessary that men should have their women covered in Hijab.
‘Abdullah asked if she was created from the right side or the left side. The Prophet replied, “If she had been created from the right side, men and women would have received equal shares of inheritance. Because as she was created from the left side the woman has one share and men have two shares. And the testimony of two women is equal to that of one man.”
‘Abdullah asked, “From which part of Adam’s body was she created?” The Prophet replied, “She was created from the clay that was left over after making of the rib of Adam.


According to a reliable chain, Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq had said that woman is known as Mar’ah (Arabic word meaning woman) because she had been created from ‘Mar’ (Arabic word for man), this is based on the fact that Hawwa’ is created from Adam.
In another reliable tradition Imam says that women are known as ‘Nisa’ (Arabic word for women) because Adam was not interested (having ‘uns’) in anything before he got the company of Hawwa’.

 


Is this why women are not allowed to hold certain positions of prominence in the dunyawi sense, where they cannot be judges and are primarily supposed to be adornments for their husbands (based on what I have read in other threads)? According to the Sunni jurist al-Qurṭubī, all women are not supposed to go out of their homes unnecessarily, based on Qur’an 33:33. According to former member Ibn al-Hussain:

Quote

Just half a century ago Marhum Kalantari in his Hashiyah on Makasib was saying that the greatest tragedy today is that women have begun coming out on the day of Arba'een, walking on their feet, in public, and completely going against Quranic injunctions asking them to remain at home.

The member also elucidated that such seemingly misogynistic views of women have been the view of both Shia and Sunni scholars for centuries, and that it is inevitably irreconcilable with modernity. 

Further, in one report of Risalat al Huquq, Imam Zayn al Abidin (عليه السلام) says that “you must treat her [your wife] with compassion, since she is your prisoner (asir) whom you feed and clothe” (another version of this report does not contain this line).


Another tradition (from Facebook) demarcates the preference of men over women:

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Abdullah reported that Imam Al-Hasan (a.) said: "A crowd of Jews stood before the messenger (s.) and their most knowledgeable asked him questions and asked him: "What is the preference of men over women?" The Prophet (s.) said: " Such as the preference of the heavens over the earth and the preference of water over the earth, for water enlivens the earth and men enliven women. If it had not been for men, women would not have been created: God says: "Men are responsible for women with that which God preferred one over the other and with that which they spent out of their wealth." (4:34) The Jew asked: "Why was this so? The prophet (s.) said: "God created Adam (a.) from a clay and from his remains and the rest was created Eve (a.) and the first to obey the women was Adam (a.), whereupon God made him descend from paradise and the preference of men over women has already become clear in this world. Do you not then look at the women as they have their monthly period and are denied worship due to impurity, while the men are not affected by menstruation?" The Jew said: "You have found yourself confirmed, O Muhammad."


I feel like I should quote this verse now because I can see how this thread will bother a lot of my brothers and sisters:

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”Indeed the muslim men and the muslim women, the faithful men and the faithful women, the obedient men and the obedient women, the truthful men and the truthful women, the patient men and the patient women, the humble men and the humble women, the charitable men and the charitable women, the men who fast and the women who fast, the men who guard their private parts and the women who guard, the men who remember Allah greatly and the women who remember [Allah greatly] —Allah holds in store for them forgiveness and a great reward.” (33:35)

Perhaps I should also add that both women and men are creations of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), they both manifest His beautiful attributes, and that they complement one another.

@Mohammad313Ali @Northwest @shia farm girlthoughts, brothers and sister?

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Firstly, IS THIS THREAD FOR REAL? Secondly, two out of four most revered women in Islam didn't do the above, so there is your answer. (Hazrat Maryam(عليه السلام) never had a husband and Hazrat As

. . .  . . .  . . .  . . .  . . .  . . .  "l feel better now."  

That is very diligent of you brother, prudent. Ah yes. Havva. Such a great creature. So wrongly dragged into the scheme because Adam advised her and got tricked first. Then, on earth. While Ada

  • Advanced Member
26 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

:salam:

I don’t know how to make this sound less misogynistic (I’m sorry), but do women actualise their purpose in life by worshipping Allah through servitude to men? I mean, based on this tradition, can’t we say that women were created to serve their husbands and to be “obedient” to them.


In another tradition attributed to Rasulullah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), the advantages or freedoms that men have in the jurisprudential sense could be attributed to the way Hawwa was created from the leftover dust of Adam:


Is this why women are not allowed to hold certain positions of prominence in the dunyawi sense, where they cannot be judges and are primarily supposed to be adornments for their husbands (based on what I have read in other threads)? According to the Sunni jurist al-Qurṭubī, all women are not supposed to go out of their homes unnecessarily, based on Qur’an 33:33. According to former member Ibn al-Hussain:

The member also elucidated that such seemingly misogynistic views of women have been the view of both Shia and Sunni scholars for centuries, and that it is inevitably irreconcilable with modernity. 

Further, in one report of Risalat al Huquq, Imam Zayn al Abidin (عليه السلام) says that “you must treat her [your wife] with compassion, since she is your prisoner (asir) whom you feed and clothe” (another version of this report does not contain this line).


Another tradition (from Facebook) demarcates the preference of men over women:


I feel like I should quote this verse now because I can see how this thread will bother a lot of my brothers and sisters:

Perhaps I should also add that both women and men are creations of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), they both manifest His beautiful attributes, and that they complement one another.

@Mohammad313Ali @Northwest @shia farm girlthoughts, brothers and sister?

1. Obedience is not to men. A wife is obedient to her Husband. It also goes the other way. That is, the Husband has to take care of her wife. If he is not able to do so she can demand for an irrevocable divorce. So, obedience is not free. 

2. The tradition that Hawwa (عليه السلام) was created from Adam (عليه السلام) is not true.

I read about this topic in detail in this book below:

http://www.islamicmobility.com/book-details/The Life And The Tales of Prophet Adam ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم))

 

3. I believe regarding Risalat al Huqooq that the translation might be wrong. It can not be the case. 

The only thing which is true is that Woman has to be obedient to her husband or Parents and doesn't hold a leadership position. 

Because the role of woman in the society is different. She has got even more higher and virtuous responsibilities like motherhood and the center of the family. 

I, sometimes to make it simple put it in this way:

Definition of ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) is actually based upon a woman: 

"Fatima wa Abuha wa Baloha wa Banuha".

Only Hazrat e Fatima (SA) is called by name in this definition of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام). 

Also,  the commentary of the verse 33:33 clearly says that the order to stay in the houses was exclusively for the wives of the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and not normal woman. 

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Thank you for your reply brother.

Quote

Obedience is not to men. A wife is obedient to her Husband. It also goes the other way. That is, the Husband has to take care of her wife. If he is not able to do so she can demand for an irrevocable divorce. So, obedience is not free. 

Thanks, I edited the post to change “man” to “husband”.

18 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

The tradition that Hawwa (عليه السلام) was created from Adam (عليه السلام) is not true.

 

I think if you read the full tradition (the very last line), it says that she was created from the leftover part of the clay that Adam’s rib was created from (not literally from the ribs), that’s what it means when it says “from Adam”.

18 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

She has got even more higher and virtuous responsibilities like motherhood and the center of the family. 

MashaAllah so true. This reminded me that in Arabic, the word “housewife” is translated to be “rabbaitul bait” or “Queen of the house”. 
 

18 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

I, sometimes to make it simple put it in this way:

Definition of ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) is actually based upon a woman: 

"Fatima wa Abuha wa Baloha wa Banuha".

Only Hazrat e Fatima (SA) is called by name in this definition of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام). 

What would you say about traditions like this (not sure if true as I found it online):

Quote

Allah has not made woman equal to man, except that Allah has created Fatima (س) equal to Ali (ع) , and in witness as well. al-Burhan, v1, p579

 

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  • 313_Waiter changed the title to Is the purpose of women’s lives to serve their husbands and to be beautiful for them?
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1 hour ago, 313_Waiter said:

She was created from the clay that was left over after making of the rib of Adam.

@313_Waiter

This is from the tradition you shared. I agree that she was created from the clay that was left after the creation of Adam. But that clay was untouched and independent. It was not left after creating the rib of Adam (عليه السلام) 

tradition below:

Quote

From Al-'Ayyashi from Amr ben Abi Miqdam from his father that he
said: I asked Aba Jafar Al-Baqir (PUH) from what thing did God made Eve (PUH)? he said (Al-Baqir PUH): and what thing do they say about this creation? I said: they say from one of Adam's (PUH) ribs, then he said (PUH): they lied. Is God unable to create her except out of Adam's rib? Then I said: O may I be a ransom to you son of the prophet of God, of what thing did God create her?He said (PUH): my father told me from his fathers that the prophet of God (PUH) said: God, may praise be to Him, held a clay and mixed it
with his right hand, and both of His hands are right, so He created out of
it Adam and part of it was left untouched so He created Eve out of it (Al-Sayed Ne'mato-Allah Al-Jaza'eri said: this Hadith or speech is trustworthy and believed in among our comrades and partners.

 

18 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

What would you say about traditions like this (not sure if true as I found it online):

Can't trust without any authenticity for this. Though, it's true that Hazrat Fatima (SA) had a great virtue. But it doesn't mean woman are not equal to men. 

Maybe, this tradition might have a meaning which we are missing. Because woman are actually not equal to men. But it doesn't proves that one is superior to other. In simple words, their is no comparison. 

19 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Thanks, I edited the post to change “man” to “husband”.

I think this is clear. Obedience is definitely their. But not free. 

May Allah bless you.

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48 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

tradition below:

I don’t see why both traditions are not irreconcilable, the part that was Eve’s clay was left untouched and it was leftover after Allah created Adam’s rib. Still, you may be right. Allahu A’lam.

48 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

Maybe, this tradition might have a meaning which we are missing. Because woman are actually not equal to men. But it doesn't proves that one is superior to other. In simple words, their is no comparison. 

Yep. I suppose depends on what we mean by equal. Is there a hierarchical relationship between the husband and wife in Islam, no doubt. See:

Quote

A woman came to the Messenger of Allāh صلى الله عليه واله and said: “O’ Messenger of Allāh! What is the right of the husband over the wife? He said to her: She obeys him and does not disobey him, does not give anything in charity from her house except with his permission, she does not keep a voluntary fast without his permission and does not prevent him from herself even if she be on hunchback. She does not leave her house but with his permission; if she leaves without his permission, the angels of the heaven, the angels of the earth, the angels of wrath and the angels of mercy damn her until she returns to her house. So she said: O’ Messenger of Allāh! Who among the people has the greatest right on the man? He said: His parents. She said: Who among the people has the greatest right over the woman? He said: Her husband. She said: So do I have a right over him similar to what he has over me? He said: No, not [even] one in a hundred! She said: By the One Who sent you as a Prophet with the truth, no man shall ever own my neck“

Can a woman reach a higher spiritual level than a man (despite being at a disadvantage due to menstruation-according to both Sunni/Shia traditions), no doubt.

 

48 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

I think this is clear. Obedience is definitely their. But not free. 

Alhamdulillah, I have no problem with this at all. It just makes me uncomfortable (maybe due to my modern mind) how some traditions seem to imply that a woman’s central or main purpose is servitude to man; or the tradition above that said “If it had not been for men, women would not have been created”. Nonetheless, they could be fabricated or weak traditions (the last one in OP is from Facebook so someone may have made it up).

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2 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

I don’t know how to make this sound less misogynistic (I’m sorry), but do women actualise their purpose in life by worshipping Allah through servitude to their husbands? I mean, based on this tradition, can’t we say that women were created to serve their husbands and to be “obedient” to them.

If I remember correctly, that is one of the greatest jihad for a woman, to obey and being good to husband.

As for their purpose, it's no different than that for us men. Only different is, we are different creation with different responsibilities.

Don't forget without fatima zahra (عليه السلام) there would be no 12 imams. Without mariam (عليه السلام). there would be no Isa (عليه السلام). and so on and so forth.

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40 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

It just makes me uncomfortable (maybe due to my modern mind) how some traditions seem to imply that a woman’s central or main purpose is servitude to man

I can understand. But the problem is not with religion but with the society. I think the 'obedience' part is stressed a lot and not the part about the 'rights of women'. 

A tradition says that, "A hypocrite man prefers his likings/preferences and imposes that over his wife and children whether they like it or not. A believer is just opposite of that."

For example, if a hypocrite likes to eat a particular recipe but that is disliked by his family. He will impose his preference on their preferences. While a believer (Momin) prefers his wife's and kids' choices over his own. 

But no one will quote this Hadith. Because maybe it doesn't suit their interest. :grin:

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24 minutes ago, smma said:

I still don't understand why a womans testimony is worth half to that of a mans. 

Because woman are naturally more emotional towards their attachments than men.

Reason:

A child is born from the womb of a woman. It is said in a tradition that woman as a mother should be respected more than man as a father because her relation with her children is deeper than the father. 

Other reasons too like:

Obedience towards her husband. 

Even if a woman testifies against her criminal husband (say). How many people will accept it? 

It doesn't mean she cannot be trusted because in context of trust, traditions are mostly addressing both genders equally.

Rest Allah Alam. 

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21 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

Because woman are naturally more emotional towards their attachments than men.

Women are definitely not more emotional than men. 

Life experience proves this absolutely false, no matter how many times it is repeated. 

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2 hours ago, Zainuu said:

Also,  the commentary of the verse 33:33 clearly says that the order to stay in the houses was exclusively for the wives of the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and not normal woman. 

It may be true for other women (not just Prophet’s (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) wives) as well:

Quote

Abu ‘Abd Allah al-Ash’ariy has narrated from certain persons of our people from Ja’far ibn ‘Anbasah from ‘Ubadah ibn Ziyad from

‘Amr ibn abu al-Miqdam from abu Ja‘far, ‘Alayhi al-Salam, and Ahmad ibn Muhammad al-‘Asemiy from those who narrated to him from al-‘Ala’ from Ali ibn Hassan from ‘Abd al-Rahman ibn al-Kathir who has said the following:
“Abu ‘Abd Allah, ‘Alayhi al-Salam, has said that ’Amir al-Mu’minin has said, in his letter to al- Hassan, ‘Alayhi al-Salam: ‘You must never consult women because their opinion is weak in reason and their aim is not durable. They must keep their eye cast down by means of your barrier, because strict privacy is better for you and for them and away from doubts. Their going out is not more difficult than entering of one to their place whom you do not trust about them. If you can, do something that no man other than you can know them; then do so.’”

Kitab al Kafi, Volume 5 H 9448, Ch. 19, h 7


Ahmad ibn Muhammad from ibn Sa‘id from Ja‘far ibn Muhammad al-Husayniy from Ali ibn ‘Abdakin from al-Hassan ibn Tarif ibn Nasih from al-Husayn ibn ‘Ulwan from Sa‘d ibn Tarif from al- Asbagh ibn Nubatah from ‘Amir al-Mu’minin, ‘Alayhi al-Salam, a similar Hadith except that he has said ‘Amir al-Mu’minin wrote it to his son Muhammad (bin al-Hanafiyah).

Quote

در حدیث دیگری از آن حضرت نقل شده که فرمودند: «اما تستحیون و لا تغارون نسائکم یخرجن الی الاسواق و یزاحمن العلوج»؛ آیا شرم نمی‌کنید و غیرت نمی‌ورزید که زنانتان به بازارها می‌روند و با مردان برخورد می‌کنند.

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) "don't you feel ashamed of yourself or aren't you zealous while your women go out to shops and they encounter handsome young men?" (Muhajjatul-Bayda' vol.3 page 104)

 

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1 hour ago, lissenma said:

If I remember correctly, that is one of the greatest jihad for a woman, to obey and being good to husband.

I heard from somewhere that the jihad of a woman is also to absorb the anger of her husband and to cool him down. Have you heard this as well? I don’t think it’ll extend to emotional or physical abuse, right (“to protect/unite the house”)?

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1 hour ago, smma said:

I still don't understand why a womans testimony is worth half to that of a mans. 

And the reason why women cant hold position of power is soley because of societal responsibilities? What if the woman is not married and doesn't have children/cant have children?

Salam for women’s testimony please see this thread me and a number of members discussed/ debated it:

Another relevant thread (which is even more controversial than this thread-read at your own risk):

 

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9 minutes ago, notme said:

Women are definitely not more emotional than men. 

Life experience proves this absolutely false, no matter how many times it is repeated. 

I agree and saying "because of metal and physics differences" also doesn't make sense. Women are not more emotional, if anything they're more resistant to succumbing to more intense emotions. 

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4 minutes ago, smma said:

I agree and saying "because of metal and physics differences" also doesn't make sense. Women are not more emotional, if anything they're more resistant to succumbing to more intense emotions. 

A man loses control over himself and punches holes in walls or worse. A woman continues with her responsibilities through her tears. The level of emotion is probably the same. The maturity in processing them tends to usually be greater in women 

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Giving reasons like, the slow detoriation of a woman's thinking caused by mostly staying at hone and not engaging in any activities that cause the brain to stay healthy make more sense in regards to how women lives for much of recorded history. This is something that can be observed even today and i bet many of you from eastern cpuntries have seen this in your own family

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5 minutes ago, notme said:

A man loses control over himself and punches holes in walls or worse. A woman continues with her responsibilities through her tears. 

This hadith seems to support your perspective (about women having more patience):

Quote

A number of our people have narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from ibn Khalid from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from ibn abu Nasr from those who narrated to him from Ishaq ibn ‘Ammar who has said the following:
“Abu ‘Abd Allah, ‘Alayhi al-Salam, has said, ‘Allah has placed in women a degree of patience which is ten times greater than the patience of men. If excited she has a force of desire which is equal to ten men.’”

Al Kafi Volume 5 H 9451, Ch. 20, h 2

Source: http://www.al-murtaza.org/Books/AL-KAFI VOLUME 5 (English).pdf

Let me know what you think of my arguments about women’s testimony in the “Islam is Patriarchal” thread (there was a long back and forth).

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10 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Let me know what you think of my arguments about women’s testimony in the “Islam is Patriarchal” thread (there was a long back and forth).

I'll take a look. Working with my kids on pandemic remote school takes a large portion of my concentration these days. I haven't been following many topics. 

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44 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

may be true for other women (not just Prophet’s (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) wives) as well:

Agree. It was in general for the other women too. But a strict commandment for the wives soecifically. 

In the enlightening commentary, it is mentioned that it is like : 'A scholar should not lie'. Though the command is for a scholar but lying is prohibited for everyone. 

But I said that it is exclusive for the wives of The Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) because a lot of other traditions also point out that woman were allowed to move out and did move out with an exception of the wives. In the times of The Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and even in the times of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام). Maybe moving out in unnecessarily is restricted. 

Below tradition shows that when needed even Bibi Fatima (SA) moved out:

Edit: it is from Shaheed Murtadha Mutahhari's book Islamic Modest Dress Hijab

Quote

Their work had been divided so that Imam Ali did the work outside of the
house and she, the work within the house, a division which the Holy
Prophet had made at the very beginning of their marriage. When Imam Ali was home, he helped her within the house and when he was not at home, she did the work outside the house as well. One day she was covered from head to toe in soot from having started the fire and because there was no flowing water in Madinah, it had to be carried from the wells, often at some distance away, the pressure applied by the straps of her water bag remained on her body because of all the water she had carried to her house.

 

46 minutes ago, notme said:

Women are definitely not more emotional than men. 

From 'Enlightening Commentary of the Holy Quran':

 
 
Quote

 

but if two men are not available, then a man and two women..."

13.

"... from among those whom you approve as witnesses... "

14. In the case that witnesses are two men, either of them can bear witness independently. But when the witnesses are two women and a man, those two women must bear witness with together:

"... so that if either of the two women errs, the other will remind her..."

It is for the reason that women, because of the strong emotions, they have, may be affected by some factors and deviate from the right path.

 

 

Maybe I was unable to put the correct words. 
Woman are more attached to the social and family responsibilities and to the relations than men. Yes they are emotionally strong and I made a mistake their. But in a general Islamic society, the overall identity of woman is such that she holds more ground on the family and social part. Correcting myself, they deal with the emotional problems more than men. 
It might not be true in the western world or modern societies and they evolve in a different way in the west. But, you can't mix these two different patterns of the society.

 

Edited by Zainuu
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8 minutes ago, starlight said:

Firstly, IS THIS THREAD FOR REAL?

Secondly, two out of four most revered women in Islam didn't do the above, so there is your answer. (Hazrat Maryam(عليه السلام) never had a husband and Hazrat Asiyah (عليه السلام)  after becoming a Muslim was no longer 'obedient' to her husband.

Can't we learn to think of women outside the role of 'a submissive wife'? Hazrat Fatima(عليه السلام), Hazrat Zainab (عليه السلام) UmmulBaneen, Lubaba were strong women (both emotionally and in faith) regardless of their marital status. Hazrat Masuma was never married, Amina Al Sadr was never married but just look at the levels of their imaan. 

I don't believe attaining high religious stations is bound to a worldy relation. There are rewards attached to being a good wife and good mother but that's not necessarily the purpose of creation of a woman.Some women(and men) can't get married,some can't become mothers. This doesn't mean they are unable to fulfill their purpose in life if they aren't a wife or mother. 

Good way to put it. Honestly, I personally think that obedience to the husband is based on his being firm in faith, and that does not only mean being one who prays all the time, but one who practices justice with everyone and everything, and is as such a good human being. I mean take it from the fact that children must obey their parents. If their parents tell them to do haraam and/or not do wajib, then the child must not obey them. I'm fairly certain that the haraam and wajib go hand in hand with injustice and justice, no? Hence I believe that is the basis for needing to be obedient to the husband, generally at the very least. Sure, if you look into details, there's a lot I could type here, but that statement alone suffices honestly. I'm no Faqih or Marja, but I think this logic is basic enough for all of us to reason with despite not necessarily being a Faqih or Marja.

Edited by Muntazir e Mahdi
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Guest Molana Laddan

Dear OP:

THE Purpose of every woman, man, female jinn, male jinn, angels (and countless others who are granted the free will and reasoning) is to be obedient to the Allah in the way they are asked to. So for example the obedience list for angels is different from the obedience list of humans.

Among humans, the obedience list of men is different from women , children’s list is different from seniors, ables have the different one than the disabled and so on. 
 

For a woman being obedient and under the wilaya of her husband is manifestation of her obedience to Allah (anything that is ordained by Allah), if this is what you are asking.

BTW it has nothing to do with wife earning more than husband, after all Sayeda Khadija was immensely more affluent than the Holy Prophet S, yet she was in the wilaya of the Holy Prophet S. 
 

Another thing, for Allah, the preserving of a Muslim household is among the most supreme acts than many even comprehend. I can give you countless examples but one suffice, Prophet himself left his own mosque, got up from a group of his own followers discussing Qur’an; telling them it’s preferable for him to go to his wife. ‘Nuf said!! 

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I may regard you with news that are not so new:

This thread is full-on misogyny. I felt very bad at some point I couldn’t read some of the comments. A woman’s role in life is to be her best self and to worship God. Not husband. Isn’t time for us to take a great look at these hadiths and maybe look at why they might not fit into this world anymore? Like maybe because society has changed. Women are not stepping outside only when necessary - they’re politicians, doctors, CEO’s. Their role in society is not only to please their husbands sexual desires and change diapers. Their role is far greater. Not only are they emotionally more mature than men but they’re capable of growing life inside of them. They can lead a whole country if needed. I feel like we as a muslim society maybe need better discussions about what these gender roles represent in terms of today’s society. I think we lack to follow the timeline and are pretty much stuck 1400 years ago in terms of progression in this area. 
 

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) said in surat Al Baqara:

Nay; they simply claim: "We found our forefathers on a way, and we continue to find guidance in their footsteps." And thus it is: whenever We sent any warner to a city its affluent ones said: "We found our forefathers on a way and we continue to follow in their footsteps." Each Prophet asked them: "Will you do so even if we were to show you a way better than the way of your forefathers?" They answered: "We disbelieve in the religion with which you have been sent." Then We exacted retribution from them. So do consider the end of those who gave the lie (to the Prophets).

 

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9 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

I heard from somewhere that the jihad of a woman is also to absorb the anger of her husband and to cool him down. Have you heard this as well? I don’t think it’ll extend to emotional or physical abuse, right (“to protect/unite the house”)?

I am not quite sure what you mean.

A husband/man by himself shouldn't act angry towards his wife. Neither physical or emotional abuse.

We have been given more strength than our female counterpart to protect and give them roof.

As for the woman one can't deal with, maybe it's better to take other measurements other than physical and emotional.

Edited by lissenma
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6 hours ago, starlight said:

Firstly, IS THIS THREAD FOR REAL?

Secondly, two out of four most revered women in Islam didn't do the above, so there is your answer. (Hazrat Maryam(عليه السلام) never had a husband and Hazrat Asiyah (عليه السلام)  after becoming a Muslim was no longer 'obedient' to her husband.

Can't we learn to think of women outside the role of 'a submissive wife'? Hazrat Fatima(عليه السلام), Hazrat Zainab (عليه السلام) UmmulBaneen, Lubaba were strong women (both emotionally and in faith) regardless of their marital status. Hazrat Masuma was never married, Amina Al Sadr was never married but just look at the levels of their imaan. 

I don't believe attaining high religious stations is bound to a worldy relation. There are rewards attached to being a good wife and good mother but that's not necessarily the purpose of creation of a woman.Some women(and men) can't get married,some can't become mothers. This doesn't mean they are unable to fulfill their purpose in life if they aren't a wife or mother. 

@starlight

Bravo sister:) I was going to reply to this thread also, but then i saw this post which covers the points i was going to mention and then some. Thanks for the detail and mentioning specific names 

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6 hours ago, Guest Molana Laddan said:

 

Another thing, for Allah, the preserving of a Muslim household is among the most supreme acts than many even comprehend. I can give you countless examples but one suffice, Prophet himself left his own mosque, got up from a group of his own followers discussing Qur’an; telling them it’s preferable for him to go to his wife. ‘Nuf said!! 

Nicely put. 

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