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In the Name of God بسم الله

Mufti Abu Layth admits Imam Jaffer as Sadiq was Shia (and further views of history)

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:salam:

See 37:39 in this video, he says the Imams like Imam Jaffer (عليه السلام) taught Shiism, yet still chooses to follow Imam Malik who he says did not narrate from Imam Jaffer because he knew he was Shia, he also claims most of our perspective on the holy Imams ((عليه السلام)) is correct (unlike other Sunni scholars who say most of it is fabricated). This should raise many question as to why he chooses to follow Imam Malik over the Imams ((عليه السلام)):

 

He seems to oppose how some shias want to bring their children up with a very black and white view of history (good guy vs bad guy), where they hate and curse muawiya and say that the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was surrounded by his enemies (which he says would imply he primarily failed his mission); he keeps asking "what is the end goal" of all this hatred, and claims history was a lot more nuanced than the shias make it out to be (see min 55 +). He also says this sort of "tunnel vision" is why children are leaving Islam, turning to kufr ideologies, becoming atheists:

 

Note: whilst I disagree with him, I respect how he promotes shia-sunni unity and his interactions with the Shia community.

:ws:

Edited by 313_Waiter
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Mufti Abu Layth, I think, has a bit of a materialistic worldview. In that, he goes for the more rationalist approach to things. Hence I guess, him becoming a Mufti in the first place. 

As such, he sees the entire Sunni-Shia divide as a political thing that wasn't necessarily consequential in regards to theology. I find this baffling, but eh...what can you do? Most Sunnis approach things this way as well. Thinking that Shias were just these oddballs who couldn't let go of a grudge, whilst they were rationally moving forward.

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mufti abu layth can be categorized as one of the more "fair" sunnis, those who are willing to go so far as to even admit that perhaps the prophet DID leave a successor and that his rights have been usurped, but he doesn't take this to be of any importance or to have any relevance on our modern lives, therefor thinks shias are a dramatic and emotional sect for not letting a political argument go, this is where he becomes a typical sunni again, but what can you do... 

MALM stresses to 'leave it in the past' and to not promote sectarianism and to build bridges; this is also the 'batri shia' approach, but shias would have to strongly disagree on the basis that not studying the past would always make the present blurry. Look at the situation of Muslim countries right now. They are the result of uneducated people who have forgotten their past. Sectarianism is an inevitability. It even exists among Sunnis and why 4 schools of difference of opinion exist and that's a healthy thing. When you don't study the past, you will never learn why differences exist and going back to a "just Muslim" attitude is in itself a Sunni sect (since sunnis practise your religion based on Sunni Hadith/fiqh/way of praying) and if you abandoned Hadith altogether, you become a Quranist sect that stands against everything Islam was built on. That's only going to make things worse.

I pray for MALM to use his rational and logic to find ahlulbayt; shia islam afterall is founded upon logic as opposed to heresy and he's at least admit to that.

In the second video you posted, MALM goes on a rant about how he's so unable to comprehend how it could be that this whole religion was given to us by hypocrites, but by doing this he disregards the many hadiths that suggest this is the case; https://www.islamweb.net/ar/fatwa/231214

many sunnis are also like this; rejecting the shia narrative becuase it seems so unlikely that most companions could be hypocrites, MALM is of that type,

 and this video can explain more: 

 

Edited by zahralzu
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Edit: in MALM’s most recent livestream he wonders what tabari was thinking when he transmitted his slanderous narrations about the satanic verses and about zayd and Zainab; and concludes that tabari must have been a closeted Shia that posed as a Sunni to destroy Sunni Islam from within, otherwise he wouldn’t have transmitted so many “Shia narrations”-reality is imam Jafar al sadiq (عليه السلام) declares the story of zayd and Zainab as a lie against the prophet, and the satanic verses are no where to be found in our books.
What is the extend that “free” sunnis are willing to go to reject shiasm? I guess I lost hope in him too lmao 

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1 hour ago, zahralzu said:

Edit: in MALM’s most recent livestream he wonders what tabari was thinking when he transmitted his slanderous narrations about the satanic verses and about zayd and Zainab; and concludes that tabari must have been a closeted Shia that posed as a Sunni to destroy Sunni Islam from within, otherwise he wouldn’t have transmitted so many “Shia narrations”-reality is imam Jafar al sadiq (عليه السلام) declares the story of zayd and Zainab as a lie against the prophet, and the satanic verses are no where to be found in our books.

Salaam sister,

as for the story of Zaid and Zaynab, please see this link and go to verses 36-37 https://hubeali.com/books/English-Books/TafseerHub-e-Ali/CH33_SuraAlAhzaab_Verses23-42.pdf

One hadith from the link above does seem to indicate such a narrative

Quote

فزوجها إياه، فمكثت عند زيد ما شاء الله، ثُ إنهما تهاجرا في شيء إلى رسول الله (صلى الله عليه و آله)، فنظر إليها النبي (صلى الله عليه و آله) فأعجبته، فقال زيد: يا رسول الله، ائذن لي في طلًقها، فإن فيها كبرا، و إنها لتؤذيني بلسانها، فقال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه و آله): «اتق الله، و أمسك عليك زوجك، و أحسن إليها»

So he (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) got her married to him (Zayd). She remained with Zayd for as long as Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) so Desired it. Then they quarrelled about something to Rasool-Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). So the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) looked towards her and she astounded him (saw)’. Zayd said, ‘O Rasool-Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), allow me to divorce her, for she is arrogant, and she hurts me with her tongue’. So Rasool-Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said: ‘Fear Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and hold on to your spouse, and be good to her’.


ثُ إن زيدا طلقها، و انقضت عدتِا، فأنزل الله نكاحها على رسول الله، فقال: فلما قضى زيد ِمنها وطرا زوجناكها. ََََّ ٌَََْْاَََّْ
Then Zayd divorced her, and she spent her waiting period. Then Allah (azwj) Revealed that she should be married to Rasool-Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), so He (azwj) Said: So when Zayd had dissolved the marriage, We Married her to you [33:37]’.

Tafsir al Qummi, 194:2


 

Quote

After the Messenger of Allah (s) migrated to Medina, he gave the hand of Zainab binte Jahash in marriage to Zaid. One day he was late to report to the Messenger of Allah (s). His Eminence went to his place to inquire about him. At that time, Zainab was seated in her room and grinding something. The Messenger of Allah (s) opened the door to ask Zainab when his eyes suddenly fell on the beauty of Zainab and he exclaimed: Glory be to Allah the creator of effulgence and:

“...so blessed be Allah, the best of the creators.” (Surah Mominoon 23:14)

Then he returned to his place while recalling her beauty.

Zaid came home and Zainab narrated the incident. Zaid said: Would you like me to divorce you so that the Messenger of Allah (s) can marry you?

Zainab said: I fear that you would divorce me and the Messenger of Allah (s) will also not marry me.

Zaid came to the Prophet and said: May I be sacrificed on you, Zainab has mentioned such and such; would you marry her if I divorce her?

He replied: No, go and have fear of God; and take care of your wife. The Almighty Allah has narrated this incident and said:

“Keep your wife to yourself and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; and you concealed in your soul what Allah would bring to light, and you feared men, and Allah had a greater right that you should fear Him. But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah’s command shall be performed.” (Surah Ahzab 33:37)

So, the Almighty Allah Himself commanded the Prophet from the Arsh to marry Zainab.

Hypocrites said: He makes the wives of our sons unlawful for us; but at the same time marries the wife of his son, Zaid. The Almighty Allah said in reply to them. 

“...nor has He made those whom you assert to be your sons your real sons; these are the words of your mouths; and Allah speaks the truth and He guides to  the  way.” (Surah Ahzab 33:4)

Then he said:

“Assert their relationship to their fathers; this is more equitable with Allah; but if you do not know their fathers, then they are your brethren in faith and your friends...” (Surah Ahzab 33:5)

Know that Zaid was not the actual son of the Holy Prophet (s), on the contrary, the Prophet adopted him since his father had disowned him; therefore the Prophet declared him to be his son. We mentioned this under the explanation of the verse:

“Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Apostle of Allah and the Last of the prophets; and Allah is cognizant of all things.” (Surah Ahzab 33:40)

After that the Almighty Allah revealed:

“It is not allowed to you to take women afterwards...” (Surah Ahzab 33:52)

That is: Whatever is made lawful for His Eminence in Surah Nisa is all and nothing else is lawful for him.

The verse:

“...nor that you should change them for other wives...” (Surah Ahzab 33:52)

...is conjunction on the story of the wife of Zaid.

“...though their beauty be pleasing to you...” (Surah Ahzab 33:52)

That is the wife of man is not lawful for you, who shows off herself to you, except that the husband should divorce her, and you marry her; so don’t do that after this.

 

6- The Prophet has a greater claim on the faithful than they have on themselves, and his wives are (عليه السلام) their mothers; and the possessors of relationship have the better claim in the ordinance of Allah to inheritance, one with respect to another, than (other) believers, and (than) those, who have fled (their homes), except that you do some good to your friends; this is written in the Book.

7- And when We made a covenant with the prophets and with you, and with Nuh and Ibrahim and Musa and Isa, son of Maryam, and We made with them a strong covenant.

Source: Tafsir Qummi vol 4: https://www.hubeali.com/online-books/online-english-books/tafseer-qummi/

 

Other hadiths seem to reject it nonetheless:

Quote

And from him (Al Sadouq) who said, ‘It was narrated to us by Tameem Bin Abdullah Bin Tameem Al Qarshy, from his father, from Hamdan Bin Suleyman Al Neysaboury, from Ali Bin Muhammad Bin Al Jaham who said,
‘I attended a gathering of Al-Mamoun, and in his presence was Al-Reza Aliasws Bin Musaasws. Mamoun said to himasws, ‘O sonasws of Rasool-Allahsaww! Isn’t is from yourasws words that the Prophetsas are infallible?’ Heasws said: ‘Yes’.

Al Mamoun asked himasws about certain Verses regarding the (various) Prophetsas, and we mentioned it in their places, along with their meaning from Al Rezaasws, up to the point where Al Mamoun said, ‘Inform me about the Words of Allahazwj the Exalted: And when you said to the one whom Allah had Favoured upon and you had favoured upon: ‘Withhold your wife to yourself and fear Allah!’, and you concealed within yourself what Allah would be Manifesting, and you feared the people while Allah is more deserving that you fear Him’.

Al-Rezaasws said: ‘Rasool-Allahsaww went to the house of Zayd Bin Harisa Bin Sharaheel Al- Kalby regarding a matter hesaww intended, and hesaww saw his wife washing, so hesaww said to her: ‘Glorious is Allahazwj Who Created you!’ And rather, hesaww meant by that Allahazwj is far more Exalted from the words of the one who claims that the Angels are daughters of Allahazwj the Exalted: Has then your Lord Distinguished you with the sons, and Taken daughters from the Angels? You are speaking a grievous word [17:40].

Therefore, the Prophetsaww said when hesaww saw her washing: ‘Glorious is the Oneazwj Who Created you, that Heazwj should Take a child for Himselfazwj being needy to this cleansing and the washing!’


So when Zayd returned to his house, his wife informed him of the coming of the Rasoolsaww and hissaww words to her: ‘‘Glorious is the Oneazwj Who Created you’, but Zayd did not know what hesaww meant by that. So he thought that hesaww said that when hesaww was fascinated from her beauty.

So he came to the Prophetsaww and said to himsaww, ‘My wife, her mannerisms are evil, and I want to divorce her’. The Prophetsaww said to her: ‘Withhold your wife to yourself and fear Allah! [33:37].

And Allahazwj had already introduced the number of hissaww wives to him, and that very woman was from them, but hesaww concealed that within himself and did not manifest it to Zayd, and hesaww feared the people lest they be saying, ‘Muhammadsaww is saying to hissaww slave: ‘Your wife would be becoming mysaww wife’, and they would be faulting himsaww with that. Thus, Allahazwj the Exalted Revealed: And when you said to the one whom Allah had Favoured upon and you had favoured upon: ‘Withhold your wife to yourself and fear Allah!’, and you concealed within yourself what Allah would be Manifesting, and you feared the people while Allah is more deserving that you fear Him’

Then Zayd Bin Harisa divorced her, and she observed the waiting period from him, and Allahazwj the Exalted got her married to Hisazwj Prophetsaww, Muhammadsaww, and Revealed the Quran (Verses) with that, so the Mighty and Majestic Said: So when Zayd had dissolved the marriage, We Married her to you so that there would not happen to be any uneasiness upon the Momineen regarding the wives of their adopted sons when they had dissolved their marriages from them; and the Command of Allah Will always be Done [33:37].

Then Allahazwj Mighty and Majestic Knew that the hypocrites will be faulting himsaww, so Allahazwj the Exalted Revealed: There was no blame upon the Prophet regarding what Allah Imposed to Him [33:38]’.
 

So Al-Mamoun said, ‘You have healed my chest, O sonasws of Rasool-Allahsaww, and clarified for me what was confusing upon me. May Allahazwj the Exalted Recompense you one behalf of Hisazwj Prophetsas, and on behalf of Al Islam, goodly’’


عيون أخبار الّرضا 

1/195:1

 

 

 

1 hour ago, zahralzu said:

and concludes that tabari must have been a closeted Shia that posed as a Sunni to destroy Sunni Islam from within

This is so sad, I didn’t see him as one of those Sunnis who says Shiism is created by a Jew called abdullah Ibn Saba. I’ll have to watch the stream.
 

 

23 hours ago, zahralzu said:

In the second video you posted, MALM goes on a rant about how he's so unable to comprehend how it could be that this whole religion was given to us by hypocrites, but by doing this he disregards the many hadiths that suggest this is the case; https://www.islamweb.net/ar/fatwa/231214

 

I don’t understand Arabic sister.

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2 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

Salaam sister,

as for the story of Zaid and Zaynab, please see this link and go to verses 36-37 https://hubeali.com/books/English-Books/TafseerHub-e-Ali/CH33_SuraAlAhzaab_Verses23-42.pdf

One hadith from the link above does seem to indicate such a narrative


 

 

Other hadiths seem to reject it nonetheless:

 

This is so sad, I didn’t see him as one of those Sunnis who says Shiism is created by a Jew called abdullah Ibn Saba. I’ll have to watch the stream.
 

 

I don’t understand Arabic sister.

Oh, well that’s unfortunate that I‘ve basically been attacking sunni narrations and claiming they’re slandering the prophet when we have similar narrations…

It reminds me of another narration that shias are quick to dismiss as a sunni fabrication; the narration about the prophet supposedly receiving kebabs from the sky that gave him the strength of 30 men to have intercourse with all 10 wives in the same day and without ghusul in between. Imam jafar al sadiq (عليه السلام) declares anas bin malik as one of the 3 who narrated the most fabrications against the prophet, alongside abu hurayrah and ‘the woman’ (aisha), and it was safe to assume this was another fabrication on anas’s part, until it was found that we also have similar narrations:

image.png.3641bec370e9e2f67cd21d66ff59fc61.png

So the questions are:

-can MALM be onto something that shia scholars could’ve been in taqayia? Why is this so hard to believe? It’s an interesting thought…(to be fair to him, he’s not the type to believe in the Abdullah bin saba stuff, I think he barely believes in this tabari theory that he bought forth himself, he was tiptoeing around the subject and offered many disclaimers in hopes of it not turning into anything bigger than just a thought)

-should stories hold more weight if they are found in both sunni and shia sources?  

-how did anas bin malik know of this story about strength of 30 men? Is it not inappropriate given his young age? and why was it so important for him to narrate and for us to know about?

-shias have always supported the conspiracy that companions deliberately slander the prophet (a’uthibillah, call him suicidal, lustful, bewitched, delirious, etc) while we apparently give him more piety...is this really the case?

 

About the stuff in Arabic…sunnis basically have a hard time accepting that this religion could be transmitted to us through hypocrites, but there’s a hadith that says that allah uses the hypocrites to aid his religion, the prophet says this about someone names quzman who only fought in uhud to impress women and not be referred to as the one who was too cowardly to fight, he killed around 7 people on the battlefield, the prophet told the companions to inform him of his going to hell due to his bad intentions and due to him not doing jihad for the sake of allah, the companions were shocked to hear this and thought it couldn’t be true and decided to tell quzman that he’s instead going to heaven (a’uthibillah), quzman laughed at them and said ‘what heaven? I did this for my reputation’ and killed himself from the pain of the wound he suffered in the battle. This was a miracle of the prophet’s prophecy, the companions admit to the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) that he was right after all, and the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) said in response:

إن الله ليؤيد هذا الدين بالرجل الفاجر

And

لينصرن الله هذا الدين على يد الرجل الفاجر

Which translates to: ‘May God make this religion victorious at the hands of the immoral man’ and ‘ God supports this religion with the immoral man’

so it's very reasonable to think the prophet was surrounded by hypocrites who ultimately help spread the religion; contrary to MALM's beliefs that it's 'not logical'

 

Edited by zahralzu
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1 hour ago, zahralzu said:

Imam jafar al sadiq (عليه السلام) declares anas bin malik as one of the 3 who narrated the most fabrications against the prophet, alongside abu hurayrah and ‘the woman’ (aisha), and it was safe to assume this was another fabrication on anas’s part, until it was found that we also have similar narrations:

image.png.3641bec370e9e2f67cd21d66ff59fc61.png

That’s interesting, I always saw that as a fake slanderous hadith as well. It doesn’t say he only took only one ghusl though. Islamophobes on YouTube have been using hadiths like this, many hadiths related to Aisha (her cleaning the cloths of Rasulullah, her age, etc.) as well as the hadith about Bibi Mariya al Qibtiyya (which also exists in our books) to slander the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). There’s anti-Islam people who have dedicated their lives to this

1 hour ago, zahralzu said:

can MALM be onto something that shia scholars could’ve been in taqayia?

I mean, when it comes to hadiths against Sunni-revered personalities like Aisha, Hafsa and the first three Caliphs, I wouldn’t be surprised if some people conceal such hadiths which show them in a very negative light. Not sure if people would do taqiyya to hide hadiths problematic to a modern 21st century audience.

Quote

Ali Bin Ibrahim, from his father, from Hammad, from Hareyz, from the one who informed him,

‘From Abu Abdullahasws regarding the Words of Allahazwj Mighty and Majestic: And the good and the evil are not equal [41:34]. Heasws said: ‘The good deed is the Taqiyya (dissimulation), and the evil is the broadcasting (of the Ahadeeth to the adversaries)’.

And (about) the Words of the Mighty and Majestic: Repel (evil) by that which is best [41:34]. Heasws said: ‘That which is the best, is the Taqiyya (dissimulation), So if there is enmity between you and him, he would be like your intimate friend [41:34]’.

Al Kafi V 2 – The Book Of Belief and Disbelief CH 97 H 6

 

1 hour ago, zahralzu said:

should stories hold more weight if they are found in both sunni and shia sources?

Personally, I think they should. But there are some stories that are really problematic for a modern lens that exist in both Sunni and Shia works, so I think it’s important that the narrators are trustworthy and the hadith itself is reliable.

1 hour ago, zahralzu said:

how did anas bin malik know of this story about strength of 30 men? Is it not inappropriate given his young age? and why was it so important for him to narrate and for us to know about?

Good questions. Maybe he thought the hadith put the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) in a positive light?

1 hour ago, zahralzu said:

shias have always supported the conspiracy that companions deliberately slander the prophet (a’uthibillah, call him suicidal, lustful, bewitched, delirious, etc) while we apparently give him more piety...is this really the case?

 

Personally I think this is true to an extent. But that doesn’t mean all of the hadiths in the Sunni Hadith corpus are wrong. I can see how the caliphs would fabricate traditions like “obey the ruler even if he breaks you back” to further justify their own rule, or how they’d show the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) in a negative light so that their own crimes don’t look as bad.

I also think that since our scholars believe in the infallibility of the Ma’soomeen, it’s easier for us to dismiss hadiths which go against such a notion.

1 hour ago, zahralzu said:

About the stuff in Arabic…sunnis basically have a hard time accepting that this religion could be transmitted to us through hypocrites, but there’s a hadith that says that allah uses the hypocrites to aid his religion, the prophet says this about someone names quzman who only fought in uhud to impress women and not be referred to as the one who was too cowardly to fight, he killed around 7 people on the battlefield, the prophet told the companions to inform him of his going to hell due to his bad intentions and due to him not doing jihad for the sake of allah, the companions were shocked to hear this and thought it couldn’t be true and decided to tell quzman that he’s instead going to heaven (a’uthibillah), quzman laughed at them and said ‘what heaven? I did this for my reputation’ and killed himself from the pain of the wound he suffered in the battle. This was a miracle of the prophet’s prophecy, the companions admit to the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) that he was right after all, and the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) said in response:

إن الله ليؤيد هذا الدين بالرجل الفاجر

And

لينصرن الله هذا الدين على يد الرجل الفاجر

Which translates to: ‘May God make this religion victorious at the hands of the immoral man’ and ‘ God supports this religion with the immoral man’

so it's very reasonable to think the prophet was surrounded by hypocrites who ultimately help spread the religion; contrary to MALM's beliefs that it's 'not logical'

 

Nice. This is a very good point. I also think that Mufti Abu Layth’s reason for not accepting Shia Islam is very common among Sunnis. Sheikh Hamza Yusuf also couldn’t fathom that the Prophet was surrounded with hypocrites like Abu Bakr: https://youtu.be/UQPLCmqniwE.

I think what’s to be noted is that we don’t believe every single person around him was bad, and as for the tradition that only 3 remained muslims there were many other companions that became muslim again later on. People also change from good to bad and vice versa, I think it’s important to have a nuanced view of history. Further, sometimes many people do reject the Prophets, like Nuh ((عليه السلام)) who preached for 950 years.

 

Edited by 313_Waiter
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Of course Imam Al Sadiq (عليه السلام) was Shia. One of the biggest Sunni scholars, the founder of the Maliki Sunni Sect, and the author of the Muwatt’a, Malik Ibn Anas was a student of Imam al Sadiq (عليه السلام). Now a dare for Sunnis, Being me a single time Malik narrated from Imam al Sadiq (عليه السلام). I know that Imam al Sadiq (عليه السلام) didn’t teach Malik Ibn Anas to say that Snakes and dogs are halal. Know, why didn’t Malik narrate from the Imam (عليه السلام)? Because Imam al Sadiq (عليه السلام) was a Shia and Malik worked for the Abbasids.

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