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In the Name of God بسم الله

(Edited by moderator): Marriage of the prophet to A'isha

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1 minute ago, Sabrejet said:

The so called companions and the Arabs in general didn't take them to be infallible (I do, of course). Is there any tradition, weak or strong, that says that the objected to these marriages, and they were given the explanation "these are exceptions, they are infallible, don't take this to be the norm"?

Did they marry underage girls ? To me 14, is ok since Hazrat Maryam (عليه السلام) and Hazrat Zahra (عليه السلام) were married, its fine. but nine did Prophet marry his daughter at 9 or Hazrat maryam got Hazrat Esa (عليه السلام) at 9 ? 

You can read that in history a girl at 14 in past Islamic world would agree to marry a companion of double her age only to know that he is very famous because she wants to be called as wife of that companion. A women wants to look fame and what can you expect from a 14 years old ordinary girl ? If her father wants that he gets some benefit from a companion at a notable place, he can just say her daughter you will be famous. yes. Get married and be like a queen.

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She was 6-7 at the time of marriage and 9-10 at the time of consummation of the marriage. This does not make the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) a pedophile because any b

I'm specifically referring to those that know Aisha wasn't 9 or 6, but yet continue propagating that view because it hurts their ideology. They've ceased being Muslim in my eyes. 

@BleedKnee the title of this thread and your opening statement are both seriously problematic. I will edit them,because it's possible you weren't aware of the evidence and the implications of your sta

A child is so innocent that instead of taking them as a diamond to keep them safe from corruption, the people used them as commodity. Allah (عزّ وجلّ) does not like that. Hazrat Zahra (عليه السلام) refused all the other proposals and accept Imam Ali (عليه السلام). She ((عليه السلام)) was not played by her father and with her pure volition chose Imam Ali (عليه السلام). That is how marriages are done. 

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1 minute ago, Strange Samurai said:

Our forefathers thought that it is fine to wed a 14 female and 20 male to save them from sins. Its totally fine for such purpose. But, if they do not like each other and still lack intellectual approach as to how marriage works give them time. Quran does not say yes get them married at 14 no extra time allowed. lolz 

Oh, no one here is going to argue that marrying immediately at 9/12/14 or 18/21 is obligatory. That's a separate debate.

Past and present mujtahids, and scholars from other schools, have issued their rulings for a reason. The rulings regarding the age of majority are much closer to the mainstream view than these odd, minority traditions.

In the near past, I was of the same view as you. I clutched at straws and tried to find traditions that falsified the majority view, just so that I can debate edgy atheists on reddit.

Eventually, it occured to me that Allah and His Messenger's (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) guidelines on morality matters more than any anonymous online atheist living in his mom's basement.

 

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@Strange Samurai according to most reports Sayyida Fatima (sa) was born 5 years after the bi'thah and married in the year 2 AH, so her age was around 9 at the time of marriage.

As for the age of A'ishah, the references from al Kafi, Bihar and other sources saying she was about 9-10 at the time of marriage have also been posted in this thread.

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2 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

Oh, no one here is going to argue that marrying immediately at 9/12/14 or 18/21 is obligatory. That's a separate debate.

Past and present mujtahids, and scholars from other schools, have issued their rulings for a reason. The rulings regarding the age of majority are much closer to the mainstream view than these odd, minority traditions.

In the near past, I was of the same view as you. I clutched at straws and tried to find traditions that falsified the majority view, just so that I can debate edgy atheists on reddit.

Eventually, it occured to me that Allah and His Messenger's (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) guidelines on morality matters more than any anonymous online atheist living in his mom's basement.

 

You totally misunderstood me. 

1. I never said it is bad to marry at age 14 but I said that Prophet (PBUHHP) never married Hazrat Ayesha at 12 since he (PBUHHP) married his daughter at 14 and because of the reason that if he married her daughter at 14 and married a girl at 12, was there no one to ask a question as to difference of age? (So this never happened as there is no question about this from Prophet (PBUHHP)).

2. I said if parents want to get children marry at 14 and 20 for the purpose of preventing them from sins. They shall also convince themselves that infants born out of such marriage should be their responsibility as a 14 year girl does not have wisdom of 50 year old mother neither a 20 year old boy has heart of 50 year old father. 

3. Quran provides an age whereby property which is lifeless can be acquired by a orphan, and for this there must be a mechanism as Quran suggests. This is for lifeless thing which can be acquired again if lost. Marriage is more important than that because if an infant dies due to immaturity of 14 year old girl or 20 year old boy, he cannot be regained again, and there shall be mechanism and methods and teachings for them too before marrying. Based on above verse.

I hope this suffices.

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4 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

@Strange Samurai according to most reports Sayyida Fatima (sa) was born 5 years after the bi'thah and married in the year 2 AH, so her age was around 9 at the time of marriage.

Those reports cannot be accepted because mensatural cycles starts at the age between 12 and 15 years. If you accept 9 far far away. 14 is near 12 than 9 to 12. So, it does not make sense. If menstural cycle does not starts a female cannot give birth to a child as process does not starts. 

I am not having doubts did you learn from Imam Ali (عليه السلام) school or from somewhere ? Because Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is father of Biology and Humanitarian laws. Are you pretending to be dumb brother ?

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4 minutes ago, Strange Samurai said:

1. I never said it is bad to marry at age 14 but I said that Prophet (PBUHHP) never married Hazrat Ayesha at 12 since he (PBUHHP) married his daughter at 14 and because of the reason that if he married her daughter at 14 and married a girl at 12, was there no one to ask a question as to difference of age? (So this never happened as there is no question about this from Prophet (PBUHHP)).

On the flipside, he married Aisha at 9, and he gave his daughter in marriage at 9 too. That's the mainstream verdict of scholars past and present, who have studied hadith literature as a whole, rather than just one or two weak narrations.

 

6 minutes ago, Strange Samurai said:

I said if parents want to get children marry at 14 and 20 for the purpose of preventing them from sins. They shall also convince themselves that infants born out of such marriage should be their responsibility as a 14 year girl does not have wisdom of 50 year old mother neither a 20 year old boy has heart of 50 year old father.

No arguments there. Like I said though, that's a separate debate.

7 minutes ago, Strange Samurai said:

Quran provides an age whereby property which is lifeless can be acquired by a orphan, and for this there must be a mechanism as Quran suggests. This is for lifeless thing which can be acquired again if lost. Marriage is more important than that because if an infant dies due to immaturity of 14 year old girl or 20 year old boy, he cannot be regained again, and there shall be mechanism and methods and teachings for them too before marrying. Based on above verse.

Brother, references would be welcome. Which tafseer and ahadith did you use to arrive at your above interpretation. Do you know Arabic?

Additional question: which marja' or mara'ji do you follow?

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@Strange Samurai firstly I don't know where you got the idea that a woman can't menstruate at 9. A simple search will be sufficient to clear this misconception.

If you want to reject multiple narrations and historical reports then feel free to do so. For the ulema of our school these were apparently acceptable. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Sabrejet said:

On the flipside, he married Aisha at 9, and he gave his daughter in marriage at 9 too. That's the mainstream verdict of scholars past and present, who have studied hadith literature as a whole, rather than just one or two weak narrations.

 

I am not going to play "Devil's Advocate" Game never like since childhood. My Prophet (PBUHHP) could only be understood by man of reason as is said by Quran for Quranic verses.

2 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

No arguments there. Like I said though, that's a separate debate.

11 minutes ago, Strange Samurai said:

ok

 

2 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

Brother, references would be welcome. Which tafseer and ahadith did you use to arrive at your above interpretation. Do you know Arabic?

Additional question: which marja' or mara'ji do you follow?

I do not know Arabic, but do you understand translation of Arabic go and read Surah about Property of orphans. And, learn some biology and also Islamic law which says: "There is no complete agreement with the one who is incapable to do so". A transaction in sleep, by unsound mind and incapable person is unacceptable and as is consummation of marriage except to make an orphan recognition as part of family without consummation and until its approval. 

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On 11/27/2020 at 3:20 AM, Nightclaw said:

She was 6-7 at the time of marriage and 9-10 at the time of consummation of the marriage

Marriage is allowed if and only if Girl can consent to it (Sunni hadiths). By no means a 6 year old is mature enough to know about what marriage is. Therefore such a Nikah is batil as per what i get from sunni hadiths

Edited by Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi
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Abu Hurairah narrated that the Messenger of Allah said:
"A previously married woman should not be married until her consent has been sought, and a virgin should not be married until her permission has been sought." They said: "O Messenger of Allah, what is her permission?" He said: "If she remains silent."
أَخْبَرَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الأَعْلَى، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا خَالِدٌ، - وَهُوَ ابْنُ الْحَارِثِ - قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا هِشَامٌ، عَنْ يَحْيَى بْنِ أَبِي كَثِيرٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو سَلَمَةَ بْنُ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنِي أَبُو هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏"‏ لاَ تُنْكَحُ الأَيِّمُ حَتَّى تُسْتَأْمَرَ وَلاَ تُنْكَحُ الْبِكْرُ حَتَّى تُسْتَأْذَنَ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالُوا يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ كَيْفَ إِذْنُهَا قَالَ ‏"‏ أَنْ تَسْكُتَ ‏"‏ ‏.‏
Grade    : Sahih (Darussalam)        
Reference     : Sunan an-Nasa'i 3267
In-book reference     : Book 26, Hadith 72
English translation     : Vol. 4, Book 26, Hadith 3269

It was narrated from Khansa' bint Khidham that her father married her off when she had been previously married, and she was unwilling. She went to the Messenger of Allah and he annulled the marriage.
أَخْبَرَنَا هَارُونُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا مَعْنٌ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا مَالِكٌ، عَنْ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنِ الْقَاسِمِ، وَأَنْبَأَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ سَلَمَةَ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ الْقَاسِمِ، عَنْ مَالِكٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنِي عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ الْقَاسِمِ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، وَمُجَمِّعِ، ابْنَىْ يَزِيدَ بْنِ جَارِيَةَ الأَنْصَارِيِّ عَنْ خَنْسَاءَ بِنْتِ خِذَامٍ، أَنَّ أَبَاهَا، زَوَّجَهَا وَهِيَ ثَيِّبٌ فَكَرِهَتْ ذَلِكَ فَأَتَتْ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَرَدَّ نِكَاحَهُ ‏.‏
Grade    : Sahih (Darussalam)        
Reference     : Sunan an-Nasa'i 3268
In-book reference     : Book 26, Hadith 73
English translation     : Vol. 4, Book 26, Hadith 3270

How in the world, a 6 year old can even agree to marriage? 6 year old doesn't even know what marriage is!

Edited by Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi
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I think shias should be more careful when objecting to such matters because not only that we have hadiths from Infallibles as a brother quoted here that minimum age of puberty is nine, and marriage before it is permissible but you shouldn't go to women until she's atleast nine. We also have hadiths that suggest taking permission from un-married girl isn't even necessary and father has right to marry her to anyone even if she dis likes, it.

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28 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Marriage is allowed if and only if Girl can consent to it (Sunni hadiths). By no means a 6 year old is mature enough to know about what marriage is. Therefore such a Nikah is batil as per what i get from sunni hadiths

I'm usually in vehement disagreement with @Nightclaw, but in this case I don't understand why people are opposing him.

Even in Jaffari fiqh, marriage with a minor can be contracted with very strict conditions, in exceptional circumstances, not necessarily for the fulfillment of marital duties. There are limits, which are haram to cross in such a marriage.

In sunni literature, the most widely accepted version is that she didn't independently come to live with Rasulallah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) until she was 9 or 10.

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On this topic, 

Firstly, referring to sharia can never be an argument because then their would be a much authentic question that what about the 11 wives of the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) when only 4 are allowed in sharia from the Quran. Their are good and genuine reasons for this too so no need to clarify this. 

Regardless, according to Sharia, a sane woman with bilogical maturity can marry if she decides to do so at 9. And the age for men is fixed to 14 or 15 for that matter. 

So, their is nothing 'awkward' about a woman getting married at 9 because it has happened and still happens in a lot of classical liberal societies. 

Now, in the matter of Aisha marrying to holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), their are narrations that it happened when she was 6 or 9.

But if we check into the historical records which are clear, a simple maths on ages can prove that she was actually 19 to 21 during the marriage. 

I am not liberalizing anything as I am answerable to Allah and not the liberals. Niether I want to get into some super science to prove that marriage at 6 is fine. 

27 years before hijra, Asma, the sister of Aisha was born.

Aisha was 10 years younger than Asma.

Aisha's marriage happened 2 years after Hijra 

Stack them all

27 -10 + 2 = 19

Maths is not liberal. 

And islamophobes and liberals will even mock at this because the age if the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was still much greater. 

Watch the video below for ref:

 

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57 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

@Strange Samurai firstly I don't know where you got the idea that a woman can't menstruate at 9. A simple search will be sufficient to clear this misconception.

 

I did made simple search and to my dismay you are wrong, it must be exceptional case in your instance brother, you might have witnessed something exceptional in your life.

 

58 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

@Strange Samurai firstly I don't know where you got the idea that a woman can't menstruate at 9. A simple search will be sufficient to clear this misconception.

If you want to reject multiple narrations and historical reports then feel free to do so. For the ulema of our school these were apparently acceptable. 

 

 

Already told you, I am not going to play "Devil's Advocate" Our ulemas never accepted this. I think its sufficient to end the discussion, you made your point, I made mine. Let's end this. ok

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1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

@Strange Samurai firstly I don't know where you got the idea that a woman can't menstruate at 9. A simple search will be sufficient to clear this misconception.

 

I did made simple search and to my dismay you are wrong, it must be exceptional case in your instance brother, you might have witnessed something exceptional in your life.

 

1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

@Strange Samurai firstly I don't know where you got the idea that a woman can't menstruate at 9. A simple search will be sufficient to clear this misconception.

If you want to reject multiple narrations and historical reports then feel free to do so. For the ulema of our school these were apparently acceptable. 

 

 

Already told you, I am not going to play "Devil's Advocate" Our ulemas never accepted this. I think its sufficient to end the discussion, you made your point, I made mine. Let's end this. ok

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2 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

On the flipside, he married Aisha at 9, and he gave his daughter in marriage at 9 too. That's the mainstream verdict of scholars past and present, who have studied hadith literature as a whole, rather than just one or two weak narrations.

Please name those mainstream shia scholars, first you said I made Qayas and then you didn't feel satisfied and lied about shia scholars. Please mention the names along with sources.

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37 minutes ago, Strange Samurai said:

Please name those mainstream shia scholars, first you said I made Qayas and then you didn't feel satisfied and lied about shia scholars. Please mention the names along with sources.

Before I do, let me ask your motivation to defend your position.

1- Do you want to go against the mainstream belief, one held by shias and sunnis alike? Merely for the sake of historical accuracy?

2-Or, do you find certain historical facts indigestible, and you'd go to lengths to deny it no matter what? Theoretically, will you be willing to change your stance if you find convincing evidence?

 

Follow up question: What's your comment on Imam Jawad's ((عليه السلام)) age when Mamun married his daughter to him?

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2 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

Before I do, let me ask your motivation to defend your position.

1- Do you want to go against the mainstream belief, one held by shias and sunnis alike? Merely for the sake of historical accuracy?

Are you talking on behalf of Sunnis ? Because I do not know any Shia agreed to the fact that Prophet (PBUHHP) married Hazrat Ayesha at such age. This is only from Sunni Sources.

4 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

2-Or, do you find certain historical facts indigestible, and you'd go to lengths to deny it no matter what? Theoretically, will you be willing to change your stance if you find convincing evidence?

 

Historical facts or Historical lies ? Show me from Shia sources and Shia Ulemas as you have claimed.

 

4 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

Follow up question: What's your comment on Imam Jawad's ((عليه السلام)) age when Mamun married his daughter to him?

Please enlighten me with the age of Imam Jawad (عليه السلام) at the time of marriage.

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@Sabrejet you will never find one. The reason of this is because Imam Taqi (عليه السلام) though was 9 at the time when his father was martyred yet it took much more time for his marriage given that Imam Reza (عليه السلام) was martyred and Mamun would have arranged mourning for Imam Reza (عليه السلام) to show the world at least for 40 or more days apart from attending to other matters of worldly politics which would led him a time of year until he is satisfied that Shias are not standing in rebelleion. 

Then, an year or more would have taken from the time of Imam Jawad's migration because it is not like that a message has been sent to Imam to come to Tus and Imam went in the same dress. It required telling his relatives, dispensing all rights and duties which were upon him along with matters of his martyred father. And, telling Ashab how to carry their duties and how shall they contact. For at least preparation, Imam might have taken 1 to 2 months including arrangements for long journey.

Imam had a royal guard with him to show off the world that Mamun was good to them and someone else had martyred Imam Reza (عليه السلام) and a Royal Guard is huge force which take 1 to 2 years to reach Tus because first you have to cross huge Arabian Peninsula, then comes Iraq and then comes Iran and Tus is in Center of Iran. 

So, if I assume this time and time for Imam which Mamun would have required Imam to stay so that he may introduce him with great pomp and show in order to quell the shia uprising against him. It would actually take 4 to 6 years. 

And, by that age Imam would obviously of age to marry exempting the time period for consummation.

I gave you just a rough idea, there were no planes back then that it would happen in hurry man.

@Sabrejet And, you shall also realize that Imam Taqi (عليه السلام) was well aware of tradition of Prophet (PBUHHP), he would not create an example which would show him that he ignored the tradition of Prophet (PBUHHP). Imams are for establishment of Quran and Traditions of Prophet and not for rendering it invalid. 

Please act like a Shia if you say you are a Shia.    

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3 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

We also have hadiths that suggest taking permission from un-married girl isn't even necessary and father has right to marry her to anyone even if she dis likes, it.

Salaam brother can you present such ahadith? From my knowledge a girl can jurisprudentially be “married” (no intercourse permitted) before she hits the age of 9, but her permission is still needed after she hits the age of 9. The brothers can correct me if I’m wrong.

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2 minutes ago, Strange Samurai said:

@Sabrejet you will never find one. The reason of this is because Imam Taqi (عليه السلام) though was 9 at the time when his father was martyred yet it took much more time for his marriage given that Imam Reza (عليه السلام) was martyred and Mamun would have arranged mourning for Imam Reza (عليه السلام) to show the world at least for 40 or more days apart from attending to other matters of worldly politics which would led him a time of year until he is satisfied that Shias are not standing in rebelleion. 

Then, an year or more would have taken from the time of Imam Jawad's migration because it is not like that a message has been sent to Imam to come to Tus and Imam went in the same dress. It required telling his relatives, dispensing all rights and duties which were upon him along with matters of his martyred father. And, telling Ashab how to carry their duties and how shall they contact. For at least preparation, Imam might have taken 1 to 2 months including arrangements for long journey.

Imam had a royal guard with him to show off the world that Mamun was good to them and someone else had martyred Imam Reza (عليه السلام) and a Royal Guard is huge force which take 1 to 2 years to reach Tus because first you have to cross huge Arabian Peninsula, then comes Iraq and then comes Iran and Tus is in Center of Iran. 

So, if I assume this time and time for Imam which Mamun would have required Imam to stay so that he may introduce him with great pomp and show in order to quell the shia uprising against him. It would actually take 4 to 6 years. 

And, by that age Imam would obviously of age to marry exempting the time period for consummation.

I gave you just a rough idea, there were no planes back then that it would happen in hurry man.

@Sabrejet And, you shall also realize that Imam Taqi (عليه السلام) was well aware of tradition of Prophet (PBUHHP), he would not create an example which would show him that he ignored the tradition of Prophet (PBUHHP). Imams are for establishment of Quran and Traditions of Prophet and not for rendering it invalid.    

Close enough. Traditions place his his Imamate at 7-9 years. The latest tradition for his age of marriage you'll find is 11; right on the day he debated and defeated the best scholars of his time in Mamun's court.

7 minutes ago, Strange Samurai said:

Please act like a Shia if you say you are a Shia.  

I don't take offence, brother; it's a heated topic. But please, try not to assume the beliefs of someone who recites the complete Ziarat e Ashura daily.

 

The reason I ask your motive is this: if this is something that will make you question your belief in Islam, then I won't continue. I'd rather stay silent, and let you figure it out on your own if that's the case. Just a hint: Our proof for her age doesn't come from sunni books. Most of their traditions in this regard can easily be shot down.

 

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15 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

The reason I ask your motive is this: if this is something that will make you question your belief in Islam, then I won't continue. I'd rather stay silent, and let you figure it out on your own if that's the case. Just a hint: Our proof for her age doesn't come from sunni books. Most of their traditions in this regard can easily be shot down.

hahaha, Am I that dumb to defy truth after I saw it with my own wide eyes. I am not stupid to that extent. You provided is age 11 at the time of marriage but did not mention the source. Albeit, different sources have different ages for Imam. 

And, if you are sure that you such description is truth even then there is no mention as to when the consummation took place. And, with admission of your emphasis on 11 years. I would say that Mamun made a political move, he knew since Shias have no other weakness except their Imams so he after martyring Imam Reza (عليه السلام) showed to the world that I make a Yateem Imam (عليه السلام) who is destitute my Mahram and tried to console the hearts of Shias. And, with that also there is no mention of consummation but for making mahram it is a valid marriage and circumstances were also similar as that of Orphan but without consummation marriage would remain as incomplete.

17 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

I don't take offence, brother; it's a heated topic. But please, try not to assume the beliefs of someone who recites the complete Ziarat e Ashura daily.

 

Brother, even if you pray day and night at Mecca and do no job but serve Zamzam to all those who visit Kabatullah but you have no Marifah of Imam, I am afraid you are far away from Allah (عزّ وجلّ). 

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42 minutes ago, Strange Samurai said:

Brother, even if you pray day and night at Mecca and do no job but serve Zamzam to all those who visit Kabatullah but you have no Marifah of Imam, I am afraid you are far away from Allah (عزّ وجلّ). 

Wow.....so Imamate is higher than Quran and sunnah......way to go brother.

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@Strange Samurai there you go.

إسماعيل بن جعفر متى تجوز شهادة الغلام، فقال: إذا بلغ عشر سنين قال: قلت:
ويجوز أمره؟ قال: فقال: إن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله دخل بعائشة وهي بنت عشر سنين وليس يدخل بالجارية حتى تكون امرأة فإذا كان للغلام عشر سنين جاز أمره وجازت

Source:

Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 7 pg. 388 - 389, hadeeth # 1

Sahih, according to Allama Majlisi. Source: Mir'aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 24, pg. 235

 

You can continue doubting the faith of shias in general, or you can actually try to learn religion properly. Your choice.

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1 minute ago, Sabrejet said:

@Strange Samurai there you go.

إسماعيل بن جعفر متى تجوز شهادة الغلام، فقال: إذا بلغ عشر سنين قال: قلت:
ويجوز أمره؟ قال: فقال: إن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله دخل بعائشة وهي بنت عشر سنين وليس يدخل بالجارية حتى تكون امرأة فإذا كان للغلام عشر سنين جاز أمره وجازت

Source:

Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 7 pg. 388 - 389, hadeeth # 1

Sahih, according to Allama Majlisi. Source: Mir'aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 24, pg. 235

 

You can continue doubting the faith of shias in general, or you can actually try to learn religion properly. Your choice.

Translation ?

plz

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Just now, Strange Samurai said:

@Sabrejet please guide me to site from which you have taken it and also translate it for me.

Al Kafi Volume 7 Page 388

Start reading the 3rd from the last line. This hadith has been posted in past threads on this discussion as well.

Here's the translation: "The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) entered upon`Aisha when she was 10 years old, and that one does not enter a jaariyah (girl) until she became a woman."

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@Sabrejet If it links to Marriage of Hazrat Ayesha (رضي الله عنه) and if Al-Kulyani has adjudged it as Sahih in reality. Then still, there are a lot of questions to ask which are as follows:

1. It may be that Narrator narrated such tradition when he lost his memory or became ambivalent because intentions are known only to Allah (عزّ وجلّ).

2. Does it confirms other traditions which in case of Hazrat Zahra (عليه السلام) seems contradictory.

3. Does Quran supports contract with person incapable to do so? No it does not except only in case of an Orphan on whose behalf a guardian will exact the contract and will not do anything which may risk interest of the Orphan. So, Hazrat Ayesha (رضي الله عنه) was neither orphan nor comes under such verses.

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7 minutes ago, Strange Samurai said:

1. It may be that Narrator narrated such tradition when he lost his memory or became ambivalent because intentions are known only to Allah (عزّ وجلّ).

The science of rijal developed exactly to counter this problem. Al Majlisi (not Kulayni) didn't grade it sahih just because he felt like it.

 

9 minutes ago, Strange Samurai said:

2. Does it confirms other traditions which in case of Hazrat Zahra (عليه السلام) seems contradictory.

If you wish, I can post sahih hadith in a while on her age too. While we are at it, I can post some about Bibi Zainab's (S.A) age of marriage too. There are plenty of ahadith about the age of bulughiat in general.

What marja' or maraji' do you follow?

 

10 minutes ago, Strange Samurai said:

Does Quran supports contract with person incapable to do so? No it does not except only in case of an Orphan on whose behalf a guardian will exact the contract and will not do anything which may risk interest of the Orphan. So, Hazrat Ayesha (رضي الله عنه) was neither orphan nor comes under such verses.

You still didn't answer about the verses and particular tafsir you used in your previous argument from the Quran.

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1 minute ago, Sabrejet said:

The science of rijal developed exactly to counter this problem. Al Majlisi (not Kulayni) didn't grade it sahih just because he felt like it.

 

You never know. The problem here is that the hadith which you mentioned is about Shahadah and the topic which we are talking is about Marriage. There is difference between Mental soundness and Puberty if you do not denounce it. A child when he is 9 or 10 is capable to give Shahadah, the narrator then speaks of it about marriage of Hazrat Ayesha, now, it is question whether all of them were sound at all years of their age and whether their Iman was same at all events ? No one knows. 

Besides that this traditions is itself contradictory, it says Prophet (PBUHHP) never went to any of their women bonded in marriage or slave until she become women, so take a biology lesson and you will know that menstural cycles starts at age between 12 to 15 years whereby the girl becomes women and able to give birth to children. And, if you do not see this as well. Am I to blame? for you coconut head?

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