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In the Name of God بسم الله

How does Allah see and hear?

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Imam Jafar al-Sadiq, peace with him, has said, “He, the most Exalted One, is Hearing and Seeing. He hears without a faculty, sees without a tool. Rather, He hears by Himself, sees by Himself Imam

Lol! Like a lot of other spectators, I'm sitting back and watching/reading whilst the drama unfolds. To be fair, it's quite an interesting topic, which if we dare to be honest, must have crossed

Read the underlined and bold paragraph:   Additional (not necessary) reading:    

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Just now, Justsomeone said:

Yep! They're not literal because they're not literally applicable just as you said.

ٱلْخَالِقُ - The Creator 
ٱلْحَقُّ - The Truth
ٱلْحَىُّ - The Ever-Living
ٱلْقَادِرُ - The All-Power
ٱلْغَفَّارُ - The Ever-Forgiving

None of these are literally applicable to Allah?

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Just now, Nightclaw said:

ٱلْخَالِقُ - The Creator 
ٱلْحَقُّ - The Truth
ٱلْحَىُّ - The Ever-Living
ٱلْقَادِرُ - The All-Power
ٱلْغَفَّارُ - The Ever-Forgiving

None of these are literally applicable to Allah?

Nope. They're just symbolic words of Allah's being

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Just now, Sabrejet said:

We really can't go anywhere unless the OP starts re assessing his Salafi stance on literalism.

Literal in the sense it exists as is; reality. Not in the sense of being of or like creation, for these are figures of speech. I have said this before.

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1 minute ago, Nightclaw said:
metaphor
/ˈmɛtəfə,ˈmɛtəfɔː/
 
noun
 
1. a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.
2. a thing regarded as representative or symbolic of something else. 
 
Therefore, none of Allah's attributes are literally applicable

 

If "metaphor" = "not-literal"

Then what does "literal" mean?  What does it mean for something to be literal!  

This is the question!!!!

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2 minutes ago, Justsomeone said:

Nope. They're just symbolic words of Allah's being

If the Ever-Living does not literally apply, then Allah does not have a "being" because you just said they are not applicable. 

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Just now, Nightclaw said:

If the Ever-Living does not literally apply, then Allah does not have a "being" because you just said they are not applicable. 

You're right. All words and all understanding of Allah are just metaphors of him. In other words we can never explain what he is therefore we use words like Ever-living and the truth. But none of these words or names are literal explanations of Allah. Even the name Allah.

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4 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

Not in the sense of being of or like creation, for these are figures of speech.

Now we seem to be getting somewhere.

Anyways, let's take an example. I'm sure you've read the ayah about the Rope of Allah (3:103). I'm sure no one would be daft enough to claim that there is a literal rope. How do you interpret the Rope?

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2 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

So literal means, the thing itself?

The existence of Allah is literal. The existence of Hellfire and Paradise is literal. These things actually exist. Allah exists in reality.

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2 minutes ago, Justsomeone said:

You're right. All words and all understanding of Allah are just metaphors of him. In other words we can never explain what he is therefore we use words like Ever-living and the truth. But none of these words or names are literal explanations of Allah. Even the name Allah.

A metaphor is at once the thing it refers to and the thing it does not refer to.  In other words, a metaphor has to be literal to some degree and not literal to some degree.

 

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1 minute ago, Nightclaw said:

The existence of Allah is literal. The existence of Hellfire and Paradise is literal. These things actually exist. Allah exists in reality.

Yes!

Indeed!  This is why God's Speech is eternal!  

Edited by eThErEaL
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Just now, Sabrejet said:

Anyways, let's take an example. I'm sure you've read the ayah about the Rope of Allah (3:103). I'm sure no one would be daft enough to claim that there is a literal rope. How do you interpret the Rope?

The verse alludes to the fact that it is religion and the way of Allah, as well as the verse before it and after it.

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1 minute ago, eThErEaL said:

A metaphor is at once the thing it refers to and the thing it does not refer to.  In other words, a metaphor has to be literal to some degree and not literal to some degree.

 

Yes true. So these words are at the same time metaphors and literal

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2 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

The existence of Allah is literal. The existence of Hellfire and Paradise is literal. These things actually exist. Allah exists in reality.

Hellfire and Paradise were created in the plane of creation which includes the concepts of time and space.

Their existence is not really analogous (i.e. comparable) to Allah's existence.

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8 minutes ago, Justsomeone said:

You're right. All words and all understanding of Allah are just metaphors of him. In other words we can never explain what he is therefore we use words like Ever-living and the truth. But none of these words or names are literal explanations of Allah. Even the name Allah.

So... He is not Ever-Living nor the Truth, and therefore not existing and a fibber? If He exists, then it makes sense to call Him the Ever-Living because He does not die nor was He created. If we do not call Him this, then how can we know what He is if it is not literally applicable and only metaphorical? 

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1 minute ago, Sabrejet said:

Hellfire and Paradise were created in the plane of creation which includes the concepts of time and space.

Their existence is not really analogous (i.e. comparable) to Allah's existence.

This is pointless to argue. We both believe Allah exists, but is uncreated and eternal. He literally exists.

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1 minute ago, Nightclaw said:

The verse alludes to the fact that it is religion and the way of Allah, as well as the verse before it and after it.

And yet, the religion of Allah is a thing that exists in reality.

Judging from your comment about Paradise and Hell, I think your understanding of reality is inseparable from the concept of time and space. That's where the confusion begins.

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1 minute ago, Nightclaw said:

So... He is not Ever-Living nor the Truth, and therefore not existing and a fibber? If He exists, then it makes sense to call Him the Ever-Living because He does not die nor was He created. If we do not call Him this, then how can we know what He is if it is not literally applicable and only metaphorical? 

Refer to what @eThErEaL said here:

7 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

A metaphor is at once the thing it refers to and the thing it does not refer to.  In other words, a metaphor has to be literal to some degree and not literal to some degree.

 

 

Do you understand then? 

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1 minute ago, Sabrejet said:

And yet, the religion of Allah is a thing that exists in reality.

It was created and Allah is not created. The religion of Allah exists and so does He. The concept is not hard nor difficult. It is very simple.

2 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

Judging from your comment about Paradise and Hell, I think your understanding of reality is inseparable from the concept of time and space. That's where the confusion begins.

Look at the definition of reality.

There is an entire chapter of the Qur'an called "The Reality". Read it and comprehend it.

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4 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

So... He is not Ever-Living nor the Truth, and therefore not existing and a fibber? If He exists, then it makes sense to call Him the Ever-Living because He does not die nor was He created. If we do not call Him this, then how can we know what He is if it is not literally applicable and only metaphorical? 

I have a question for you @Nightclaw

Are the physical you hear (like the sound waves) and the written speech of the Quran (you see in the mushafs) eternal?

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1 minute ago, eThErEaL said:

I have a question for you @Nightclaw

Are the physical you hear (like the sound waves) and the written speech of the Quran (you see in the mushafs) eternal?

The speech and words of Allah are eternal. The things written are subsequent of the eternal speech. I am not sure what you mean by eternal. If you mean that they will remain on earth forever? No. If a Qur'an is destroyed, does that mean the speech of Allah is destroyed? No. 

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1 minute ago, Nightclaw said:

The speech and words of Allah are eternal. The things written are subsequent of the eternal speech. I am not sure what you mean by eternal. If you mean that they will remain on earth forever? No. If a Qur'an is destroyed, does that mean the speech of Allah is destroyed? No. 

so, is the eternal speech in Arabic?

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3 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

Correct me if I am wrong:

Allah exists literally and does not exist literally at the same time?

Allah in and of himself is the only thing that exists literally.  Every words and understanding of him are not completely literal but are metaphors. They refer literally to Allah but they are imperfect so they are called metaphors.

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1 minute ago, Justsomeone said:

Allah in and of himself is the only thing that exists literally.  Every words and understanding of him are not completely literal but are metaphors. They refer literally to Allah but they are imperfect so they are called metaphors.

Then every single thing you can use to come close to describe Allah is not literal and everything you have said so far concerning it is not literally applicable and therefore not of Allah, including your first sentence.

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1 minute ago, Nightclaw said:

Then every single thing you can use to come close to describe Allah is not literal and everything you have said so far concerning it is not literally applicable and therefore not of Allah, including your first sentence.

Yeah just as I said. Is it confusing? 

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