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In the Name of God بسم الله

How does Allah see and hear?

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Just now, al-Muttaqin said:

Surah 55:26-27 is the same meaning at 28:88.

I am well aware. That is not what I am asking. I am asking for you to explain what it means, because it states that everything will perish except His Face. Explain it.

2 minutes ago, al-Muttaqin said:

Surah 75:22-23 is referring to the theophanic nature of Jannah. Imam Ali says that even in Jannah you don't see Allah, be cause Allah cannot be seen. 

This does not make sense. It does not mention anything about Paradise. All it states is that faces will be bright looking at Allah. Now explain it, because everything is pointing towards looking at Allah. Unless you can provide something from the Qur'an that negates this, I am inclined to believe the word of Allah over your interpretation.

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Imam Jafar al-Sadiq, peace with him, has said, “He, the most Exalted One, is Hearing and Seeing. He hears without a faculty, sees without a tool. Rather, He hears by Himself, sees by Himself Imam

Lol! Like a lot of other spectators, I'm sitting back and watching/reading whilst the drama unfolds. To be fair, it's quite an interesting topic, which if we dare to be honest, must have crossed

Read the underlined and bold paragraph:   Additional (not necessary) reading:    

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1 minute ago, Nightclaw said:

No, no. All Muslims agree on this. I mean what we agreed upon. Again, it is nonsensical for me to ask for you to speak on behalf of all Shi'a, but I am asking generally.

To be honest I'm not really sure if this is even a point of dispute or debate. 

Every muslim believes Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is All Seeing, All Hearing, and as far as I'm aware nobody claims He has eyes or ears naudhubillah.

You ask: 'how does He see and hear according to the Shi'a?', yet this really isn't a Shi'a/non-Shi'a affair. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

On the fact that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is All Seeing and All Hearing?

Yes of course. It's in the Qur'an and the hadith, as already referenced by others in this thread . 

 

Yes All-Seeing and All-Hearing are among the 99 names, unlike face and hand. 

All-Seeing and All-hearing however, as we know from Imam Ali, is not indicative of Allah being something that perceives things (as if there was somewhere for Allah to look, lol) but rather that he generates them, everything that ever was and will be. 

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1 minute ago, Nightclaw said:

This does not make sense. It does not mention anything about Paradise.

Lol, Surah 75:20-22 (before the two ayahs you quoted)

No Indeed! Rather you love this transitory life and forsake the Hereafter.

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1 minute ago, Mahdavist said:

To be honest I'm not really sure if this is even a point of dispute or debate. 

Every muslim believes Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is All Seeing, All Hearing, and as far as I'm aware nobody claims He has eyes or ears naudhubillah.

You ask: 'how does He see and hear according to the Shi'a?', yet this really isn't a Shi'a/non-Shi'a affair. 

It is related to the fact that the Shi'a say we are ascribing things to Allah incorrectly while we both have the same definition. It was to highlight the fact that Allah does, in fact, see and hear, but not in the same way as we do. When we exchange variables, the conclusion changes when it should not.

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Just now, al-Muttaqin said:

Lol, Surah 75:20-22 (before the two ayahs you quoted)

No Indeed! Rather you love this transitory life and forsake the Hereafter.

Right, but it also goes on to explicitly state they will be looking at Allah and their faces will be bright because of it. Explain that.

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3 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

Unless you can provide something from the Qur'an that negates this, I am inclined to believe the word of Allah over your interpretation.

In truth you are inclined to take your own interpretation over mine which is derived from the Ahl al-Bayt's. 

You are not representative of the 'word of Allah' through taking things literally or out of context.

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Just now, al-Muttaqin said:

In truth you are inclined to take your own interpretation over mine which is derived from the Ahl al-Bayt's. 

I do not interpret what is understood, for what is understood does not need to be explained.

1 minute ago, al-Muttaqin said:

You are not representative of the 'word of Allah' through taking things literally or out of context.

Spot on. That is exactly why I did not do any of those.

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Just now, Nightclaw said:

Right, but it also goes on to explicitly state they will be looking at Allah and their faces will be bright because of it. Explain that.

 

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Just now, al-Muttaqin said:

 

This is not an explanation. You gave me a reference to a verse that states the exact same thing. I am well aware of what it states because I know the Qur'an. Explain to me what it means rather than displaying a previous post.

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14 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

This is not an explanation. You gave me a reference to a verse that states the exact same thing. I am well aware of what it states because I know the Qur'an. Explain to me what it means rather than displaying a previous post.

Ok, you got us all. Now you explain. Tell us about the legs and the giant chair. Get it over with.

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Just now, The Green Knight said:

Ok, you got us all. Now you explain. Tell us about the legs and the giant chair. Get it over with.

It is not about that currently. Though since you have asked, I will answer with what I know.

Legs have feet. We have feet. Are our feet the same as the bed? If you disagree, you know what to conclude from there. You are certainly not a brainless person, so doing this is easy for you. I do not know how it looks.

As for the Throne and Chair of Allah? Allah is above both of them. I do not know how it looks.

The answer to both things you have inquired about yields the same answer - I do not know how, I just know what Allah has described. I know it is not like anything ever, but I know it exists. We do not compare it to anything, we just know it exists. How and what it is? We do not and cannot answer because we do not know. 

Again, my answer is: Allah knows best.

When you die, you will find out the answer in which you ask about.

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Are you telling us you do not believe in your own hadiths on the matter?
 

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Narrated Abu Huraira: (that the Prophet said) It will be said to the Hell, 'Are you filled?' It will say, 'Are there any more (to come)?' On that Allah will put His Foot on it, and it will say 'Qati! Qati! (Enough! Enough!).

Sahih Bukhari Hadith No. 4849

 

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Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "Paradise and the Fire (Hell) argued, and the Fire (Hell) said, "I have been given the privilege of receiving the arrogant and the tyrants.' Paradise said, 'What is the matter with me? Why do only the weak and the humble among the people enter me?' On that, Allah said to Paradise.

'You are My Mercy which I bestow on whoever I wish of my servants.' Then Allah said to the (Hell) Fire, 'You are my (means of) punishment by which I punish whoever I wish of my slaves. And each of you will have its fill.' As for the Fire (Hell), it will not be filled till Allah puts His Foot over it whereupon it will say, 'Qati! Qati!' At that time it will be filled, and its different parts will come closer to each other; and Allah will not wrong any of His created beings. As regards Paradise, Allah will create a new creation to fill it with."

 

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Narrated Abu Huraira:

There is none among the companions of the Prophet who has narrated more Hadiths than I except 'Abdallah bin Amr (bin al-'As) who used to write them and I never did the same.

 

 

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1 minute ago, The Green Knight said:

Are you telling us you do not believe in your own hadiths on the matter?

I never said that. Show me anywhere where it is stated that it is a foot upon anthropomorphism.

I simply said I do not know and Allah knows best. I accept the narrations, but certainly not as how you do. You can take it in the sense that Allah has a foot, hands, and face pertaining to creation - we do not. If you say we do, that is upon you to prove; in which you cannot do, because we do not claim it and it is therefore a strawman argument in which I will not argue. You keep trying to infer that we believe in it while we tell you the opposite.

It is like trying to tell an African they are not African while they are telling you they are. Nonetheless, I accept the narrations and never claimed to reject them.

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Just now, The Green Knight said:

Can you describe it to us then please? Obviously there is a foot capable of making hell scream.

I just said I cannot describe it to you because I do not know. I have stated this repetitively. I do not know how it is nor how it will be. I am fully incapable of describing it because I do not know and only Allah knows. I do not know what else you want me to say. 

 

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1 minute ago, Nightclaw said:

I just said I cannot describe it to you because I do not know. I have stated this repetitively. I do not know how it is nor how it will be. I am fully incapable of describing it because I do not know and only Allah knows. I do not know what else you want me to say. 

 

Well who is going to clear it up then? Obviously there is a foot of god. The hell is screaming because of it. You could interpret (if its not your belief as you say) that the foot of god is the pious sahabi "X" and it is metaphorical, read our book "Y" where our scholar "Z" has interpreted it. Then, we would know for certain that it is not a foot as we know it. Physical beings need feet in order to stand, walk, etc. Given the situation, there is no room for benefit of doubt here.

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2 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

Well who is going to clear it up then? Obviously there is a foot of god. The hell is screaming because of it. You could interpret (if its not your belief as you say) that the foot of god is the pious sahabi "X" and it is metaphorical, read our book "Y" where our scholar "Z" has interpreted it. Then, we would know for certain that it is not a foot as we know it. Physical beings need feet in order to stand, walk, etc. Given the situation, there is no room for benefit of doubt here.

No scholar interprets what it is. You will not find a single scholar from among the Ahlul Sunnah that interprets what it is rather than accepting and leaving it. Any interpretation of it is wrong because it cannot be fathomed. Why, you ask? Because, as I say, they do not explain what cannot be fathomed. It is not a foot as you know it and it does not need interpretation for such. Allah is living. We are living. Therefore, Allah lives as we live. It is an equivocation fallacy. It is plain and simple; not difficult to understand.

Allah is nothing like creation. -> Allah cannot be fathomed by human imagination nor compared to anything ever created ever.

There is no benefit of the doubt. It is apparent, because Allah is not like anything in creation. You are arguing against something that I do not even believe in. You are ascribing things to Allah based on the physicality of what you know of - I am not doing that because Allah cannot be limited to such nor compared to it.

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2 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

Allah is living. We are living. Therefore, Allah lives as we live.

 

2 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

Allah is nothing like creation.

Self contradiction there. Allah's "life" is unlike ours because there is no start of it nor there is an end or transitions in it, nor He gets old nor young, or ill, etc.

Anyway, it would have been nice if the god's foot in your sahih book could be explained away. I wonder how those sahabis or the narrators believed in it and never asked for explanations.

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5 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

Self contradiction there. Allah's "life" is unlike ours because there is no start of it nor there is an end or transitions in it, nor He gets old nor young, or ill, etc.

So that means... He is unlike us, correct? Although He lives, it is unlike how we live. You are saying exactly what I am saying with the different variables.

5 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

Anyway, it would have been nice if the god's foot in your sahih book could be explained away. I wonder how those sahabis or the narrators believed in it and never asked for explanations.

They listened, heard, and obeyed. It is that simple. Adding to that, they already had enough intellect and knowledge to know it was unlike creation.

It cannot be explained until the day we end up meeting Allah.

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1 minute ago, Nightclaw said:

They listened, heard, and obeyed. It is that simple. Adding to that, they already had enough intellect and knowledge to know it was unlike creation.

You only assume those things.

2 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

It cannot be explained until the day we end up meeting Allah.

You know what that means? It means such hadiths are useless and offer nothing to a believer. And Rasool Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) never did such a thing. You know I could list such "unexplainable" and pointless hadiths for hours which will also blaspheme just like the foot hadith does. Blaspheme abour Allah, Muhammad, his household, prophets like Musa and so on and on. This is the sad thing that has given ammunition to writers who allegedly blaspheme but in reality they only copy those hadiths. And made the mainstream Islam a laughing stock for the world. Add the throne and an angry god "melting faces" by looking at people and similar things to the picture. Just by pointing out these things we earn the ire of those who "listen, hear and obey" and have "enough intellect and knowledge" to know what the rest of the creation does not.

Thanks anyway.

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1 minute ago, The Green Knight said:

You know what that means? It means such hadiths are useless and offer nothing to a believer. And Rasool Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) never did such a thing. You know I could list such "unexplainable" and pointless hadiths for hours which will also blaspheme just like the foot hadith does. Blaspheme abour Allah, Muhammad, his household, prophets like Musa and so on and on. This is the sad thing that has given ammunition to writers who allegedly blaspheme but in reality they only copy those hadiths. And made the mainstream Islam a laughing stock for the world. Add the throne and an angry god "melting faces" by looking at people and similar things to the picture. Just by pointing out these things we earn the ire of those who "listen, hear and obey" and have "enough intellect and knowledge" to know what the rest of the creation does not.

Thanks anyway.

And there is none of you that will not come to pass over it [i.e., Sirat]. This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed.
Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees.

Surah Maryam, verses 71-72

How will Allah judge, considering He will save those who feared Him? How will we cross the Sirat? Is it explained in detail? No? Then I guess it is useless being mentioned, according to you.

You keep giving erroneous points because it can be used against you and the very thing we believe in. This is why anything you say concerning this is problematic. You are trying to pick and choose while not knowing that whatever you say can be used against you within a split second - by your own accord and none other.

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8 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

You only assume those things.

19 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

No, it was a fact that they did not question the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) and just heard and obeyed. Take for example when they took off their shoes afore entering the masjid - why did they do it? 

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Here is an example.

 
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Hadith No: 601
Narrated/Authority of Abu Huraira
Listed in: Quarrels
Two persons, a Muslim and a Jew, quarrelled. The Muslim said, "By Him Who gave Muhammad superiority over all the people! The Jew said, "By Him Who gave Moses superiority over all the people!" At that the Muslim raised his hand and slapped the Jew on the face. The Jew went to the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and informed him of what had happened between him and the Muslim. The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) sent for the Muslim and asked him about it. The Muslim informed him of the event. The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said, "Do not give me superiority over Moses, for on the Day of Resurrection all the people will fall unconscious and I will be one of them, but I will. be the first to gain consciousness, and will see Moses standing and holding the side of the Throne (of Allah). I will not know whether (Moses) has also fallen unconscious and got up before me, or Allah has exempted him from that stroke."

 

 
Even this is teaching us something. Actually there is no need of interpretations. It is saying Moses is superior and the throne is physical and its side can be held by a man.
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11 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

He manifests Himself over the earth with His authority and greatness.

lMH0: This is an example  of the limits of language in its own (Earth) time. While the word "manifest" -to be certain by displaying- is accurate, the preposition "over" is Quranically incorrect and should be replaced with "through" because the God of Noah -(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  "is to everything a Witness" (Ayat 4:30) the arabic word ala is, compared to English, an indefinite preposition. @Cool? Critique?

And everything 'stands' by His -(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Command (Ayat 30:25)

No anthropomorphic analogy is acceptable. As restated by 313_Waiter.

ln a modern idiom, the observation of magnetic permeability can be used as a teaching step towards "everything a Witness".

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Just now, Nightclaw said:

No, it was a fact that they did not question the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) and just heard and obeyed.

Nothing can be farther from the truth. I can list for hours the instances where the closest and "best" disobeyed, questioned, and even doubted the prophethood and sanity of the Prophet.

 

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1 minute ago, The Green Knight said:
Even this is teaching us something. Actually there is no need of interpretations. It is saying Moses is superior and the throne is physical and its side can be held by a man.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

Nothing can be farther from the truth. I can list for hours the instances where the closest and "best" disobeyed, questioned, and even doubted the prophethood and sanity of the Prophet.

Disobeyed, questioned, doubted the prophethood and sanity of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him)? I want to see this.

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12 hours ago, Nightclaw said:

This is another antimony. Either he literally hears or does not. If not, then He is not what the meaning entails. If it is metaphorical, then He does not see nor hear whatsoever and you cannot give any example to compare to such.

Disagree. You ring a bell and we hear it auditorially. Yet, someone else can read it by measuring the vibrations on a display,

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1 minute ago, hasanhh said:

Disagree. You ring a bell and we hear it auditorially. Yet, someone else can read it by measuring the vibrations on a display,

Allah has no limits, so He hears and sees everything - just not in the same way as we do.

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11 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

No anthropomorphic analogy is acceptable. As restated by 313_Waiter.

We do not liken Allah to creation. We simply acknowledge what He states He has and leave it at that. No further explanation is needed.

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5 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

Disobeyed, questioned, doubted the prophethood and sanity of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him)? I want to see this.

Oh my. Are you sure? This will require a whole new thread. But to give you hints, how about the hadith of pen and paper for an instance of disobedience, etc.? Don't tell me I have to narrate it to you.

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Just now, The Green Knight said:

Oh my. Are you sure? This will require a whole new thread. But to give you hints, how about the hadith of pen and paper for an instance of disobedience, etc.? Don't tell me I have to narrate it to you.

I can recite this hadith in Arabic backwards and forwards. I know what you are speaking of. Nonetheless, do make the new thread. This one has grown long enough and is a bit off-topic concerning this.

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