Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
ShiaChat.com
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

How does Allah see and hear?

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member

This question is primarily for the Shi'a. I was wondering about this because it is quite paradoxical when they make claims towards the Ahlul Sunnah of saying Allah is an anthropomorphic being. If you say it is metaphorical, this is problematic because this means that Allah does not hear nor see whatsoever [as a metaphor is a representative of something that is not literal, and in this case, the sight and hearing of Allah]. This also contradicts his name al-Hayy, which entails that He is living and has the qualities of living things, albeit not limited nor comparable whatsoever.

So my question is to the Shi'a:

How does Allah see and hear?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 328
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Imam Jafar al-Sadiq, peace with him, has said, “He, the most Exalted One, is Hearing and Seeing. He hears without a faculty, sees without a tool. Rather, He hears by Himself, sees by Himself Imam

Lol! Like a lot of other spectators, I'm sitting back and watching/reading whilst the drama unfolds. To be fair, it's quite an interesting topic, which if we dare to be honest, must have crossed

Read the underlined and bold paragraph:   Additional (not necessary) reading:    

Posted Images

  • Advanced Member
36 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

This question is primarily for the Shi'a. I was wondering about this because it is quite paradoxical when they make claims towards the Ahlul Sunnah of saying Allah is an anthropomorphic being. If you say it is metaphorical, this is problematic because this means that Allah does not hear nor see whatsoever [as a metaphor is a representative of something that is not literal, and in this case, the sight and hearing of Allah]. This also contradicts his name al-Hayy, which entails that He is living and has the qualities of living things, albeit not limited nor comparable whatsoever.

So my question is to the Shi'a:

How does Allah see and hear?

Allah does not require light to be refracted and focused on to a neurolical surface. That is the literal meaning of seeing. In the absence of light you can not see. Allah does not require light.

Same argument for hearing.

He is unlike anything. He is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing} (Q. 42:11)

How he hears or sees we do not know.

But it's not literal in the sense of what hearing and seeing is to created beings.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
3 minutes ago, Warilla said:

Allah does not require light to be refracted and focused on to a neurolical surface. That is the literal meaning of seeing. In the absence of light you can not see. Allah does not require light.

Same argument for hearing.

He is unlike anything. He is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing} (Q. 42:11)

How he hears or sees we do not know.

But it's not literal in the sense of what hearing and seeing is to created beings.

This is another antimony. Either he literally hears or does not. If not, then He is not what the meaning entails. If it is metaphorical, then He does not see nor hear whatsoever and you cannot give any example to compare to such.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
38 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

He is the Creator of that sounds and visions, thus He actualized them, so He is aware of it's essence and knows everything about it. As how? By Himself.

Now if the Ahlul Sunnah say this about other things, is it a problem? It is the exact same thing you are saying. No difference.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, Cool said:

Imam Jafar al-Sadiq, peace with him, has said, “He, the most Exalted One, is Hearing and Seeing. He hears without a faculty, sees without a tool. Rather, He hears by Himself, sees by Himself

Imam Muhammad al-Baqir, peace with him, has said, “He is Hearing, Seeing; He hears through what He sees, sees through what He hears.

No doubt, but I refrain from giving explanations. I say Allah sees, hears, has hands, a face that is unlike anything we know of and imaginable and cannot be compared. The exact definition that you guys say, but somehow it is a problem when we say it. It is truly confusing as to why.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, Nightclaw said:

This is another antimony. Either he literally hears or does not. If not, then He is not what the meaning entails. If it is metaphorical, then He does not see nor hear whatsoever and you cannot give any example to compare to such.

Can you define literal seeing and hearing for me ?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Just now, Warilla said:

Can you define literal seeing and hearing for me ?

So then Allah is blind and deaf, according to those definitions. Not only is He blind, but if we are going into the literal sense, He does not literallly exist, as per his name al-Hayy.

It would have been much easier if you said that He sees and hears like we do not know of and cannot compare. No need to add "it is not literal" because that leaves room for interpretation. End it there and anything further you do not know, because you cannot prove nor disprove it. If anything, any side arguing against you has a stronger side.

You do not know what is a metaphor when it is concerning these things, so do not speak of what you do not know of and speak regarding what you do. Anything further - leave it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
3 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

.It would have been much easier if you said that He sees and hears like we do not know of and cannot compare.

That what I did say. The how we don't know.

I gave my definition of literal hearing and said it's not that.

I'm happy to use the term literal if you can define it in an acceptable way.

Edited by Warilla
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Just now, Warilla said:

That what I did say. The how we don't know.

I gave my definition of literal hearing and said it's not that.

I'm happy to accept literal if you can define it in an acceptable way.

When it is literal, it is not in the sense of within the context of the universe. He is Vision, Sight, Hearing, Consciousness, etc. He is not limited. He is not bound. He does not forget. He exists. We do not know how Allah looks, but He certainly can hear and see but we do not know how. It has nothing to do with human body parts or anything in creation. Just know the concepts we know of is always referred to from Allah to us is because we do not understand it any other way. Allah hears and sees like nothing else in creation. How? We do not know. Does He literally hear? Yes. Like us? No; and like nothing else that was created, has been created, or will be created.

That is our definition. Same applies to everything else He ascribes to Himself.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Just now, Abu Nur said:

No, it is not problem, but sometimes we do have some differences in particular issues and that's fine.

Differences will occur in life and nobody will be able to stop this until we reach our graves. That is not my problem. The problem is when the accused are being accused of that which the accusers accuse the accused of.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Then the souls of the believers come to him and they rejoice more over him than any one of you rejoices when his absent loved one comes to him. They ask him: 'What happened to so-and-so, what happened to so-and-so?' They say: 'Let him be, for he was in the hardship of the world. When he says, 'Did he not come here?' They say: 'He was taken to the pit (of Hell).' Come out discontent, subject of Divine wrath, to the punishment of Allah, the Mighty and Sublime; So it comes out like the foulest stench of a corpse.

https://sunnah.com/nasai/21/16

 

If a mere soul can hear and speak without the assistance of the tounge/mouth, and the ears, then what makes you doubt the ability of The Lord Almighty to hear and see without the assistance of phisical parts?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
2 minutes ago, MaisumAli said:

If a mere soul can hear and speak without the assistance of the tounge/mouth, and the ears, then what makes you doubt the ability of The Lord Almighty to hear and see without the assistance of phisical parts?

Do you know how a soul looks? Are the Angels not made out of light but they still speak? Is Shaytaan not made of fire but he still speaks? Do these aforementioned creation not have parts, such as hands, mouths, wings, arms, legs and whatnot?

Again, nobody is saying that Allah has physical parts, but that argument can easily be countered and should not be used.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
40 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

No doubt, but I refrain from giving explanations

You (I mean we) are not obliged to set or give examples/analogies for Him. 

فلا تضرب الله الامثال

43 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

Allah sees, hears, has hands, a face that is unlike anything we know of and imaginable and cannot be compared.

But you (I mean we) should ponder when He sets/gives example for Himself. He has hands, yes, lets see:

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يُبَايِعُونَكَ إِنَّمَا يُبَايِعُونَ اللَّهَ يَدُ اللَّهِ فَوْقَ أَيْدِيهِمْ

48:10

 وَمَا رَمَيْتَ إِذْ رَمَيْتَ وَلَـكِنَّ اللّهَ رَمَى 

8:17

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
3 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

Differences will occur in life and nobody will be able to stop this until we reach our graves. That is not my problem. The problem is when the accused are being accused of that which the accusers accuse the accused of.

Yes, we can only present our own proofs and interpretation and understanding, then the individual will decide which version is near to the truth and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will judge us in hereafter about the right and wrong.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
1 minute ago, Abu Nur said:

Yes, we can only present our own proofs and interpretation and understanding, then the individual will decide which version is near to the truth and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will judge us in hereafter about the right and wrong.

I do not have an opinion on the word of Allah nor the guidance of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him). As the greatest men to walk the earth after the Messengers and Prophets of Allah, the companions, I see, hear, and obey. No questions asked.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
49 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

The exact definition that you guys say, but somehow it is a problem when we say it

There was a guy name @Cherub786 here, he believes that Allah is literally sitting upon the throne. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) comes & goes. 

What are your views about that?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
2 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

I do not have an opinion on the word of Allah nor the guidance of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him). As the greatest men to walk the earth after the Messengers and Prophets of Allah, the companions, I see, hear, and obey. No questions asked.

This is not what I meant by doubting or questioning the words of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and the Prophet Muhammad (saws). 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
3 minutes ago, Cool said:

There was a guy name @Cherub786 here, he believes that Allah is literally sitting upon the throne. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) comes & goes. 

What are your views about that?

Good old Cherry, Believes in al Shab al Amred.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
1 minute ago, Cool said:

There was a guy name @Cherub786 here, he believes that Allah is literally sitting upon the throne. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) comes & goes. 

What are your views about that?

If someone else were to ask this question, I would have responded. Though to be frank, I do not like you so I will not respond to you. You have been extremely disrespectful to me and us interchanging, talking will not go anywhere in the future other than dragging us both down or wasting time - or both. I have been purposely not responding to whatever you were saying to me in hopes you would stop talking to me because I really do not like you. So for further notice, until you know how to respect people and not cause a sit, please refrain from speaking to me. If you want to continue, then go ahead. I will simply not respond until I feel as if you have the ability to respect.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Just now, Warilla said:

When did I say metaphorical ?

 

2 hours ago, Warilla said:

But it's not literal in the sense of what hearing and seeing is to created beings.

Was this not an allusion to metaphorical?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
3 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

So for further notice, until you know how to respect people and not cause a sit, please refrain from speaking to me

Please feel free to use "ignore" function if you don't want to see my responses.

I am free to post comments anywhere I deem necessary and I don't need your permission nor I care about whether you like or dislike my response.

5 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

You have been extremely disrespectful to me and us interchanging

That's what "you" feel. But don't expect a respect from me when you pose yourself an Arabic Professor, yet I see you struggling with the meanings of simple verbs.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
4 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

 

Was this not an allusion to metaphorical?

Ok let's break it down. You gave only 2 options in your question.

I gave a definition of literal and said it not "that"

You rejected my definition.

So if you want a digital answer please define literal seeing and hearing 

And then we can agree to use literal.

Otherwise let's just stick with we don't know how and ignore your 2 answer only question.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
13 minutes ago, Warilla said:

Ok let's break it down. You gave only 2 options in your question.

I gave a definition of literal and said it not "that"

You rejected my definition.

So if you want a digital answer please define literal seeing and hearing 

And then we can agree to use literal.

Otherwise let's just stick with we don't know how and ignore your 2 answer only question.

There was ultimately two options, but it is pointless going back and forth when we agree upon the same thing. But prior to this, you argued against it when I mentioned Allah had hands and a face. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Allah doesn't have a hand nor face, or any other body parts. Or even parts of any kind. We don't believe that He has a shin, face, hand etc "which are wonderful and imperceptible beyond beyond mortal perception". We don't think He will have a physical, visible form in the afterlife "wonderful and imperceptible beyond all comprehension". Not at all. We reject these ideas.

When you see verses and ahadith that mention these, these mean something else entirely. The Salafis, in their understandable fear of misinterpreting these, tend to take them at face value, and prefer not to dig into their layers of meaning. That's fine and all, but if they simply derive their meanings from the teachings of Ahlul Bayt (which they won't), then their confusion can be cleared. 

Edited by Sabrejet
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
26 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

There was ultimately two options, but it is pointless going back and forth when we agree upon the same thing. But prior to this, you argued against it when I mentioned Allah had hands and a face. 

A literal hand is a physical structure with an apposable thumb.

A literal face is a physical structure that is the the forfront of that structure.

Thats my definition literal definition of both terms. Allah has neither.

There are hadith and linguistic evidence to support a metophorical meaning of both hand and face and shin. So I can say it's metaphorical.

Seeing and hearing I haven't found evidence for the metaphor so I say I don't know. But it's not my definition of literal.

In both cases I'm happy to consider any definitions of literal.

Edited by Warilla
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
2 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

Allah doesn't have a hand nor face, or any other body parts. Or even parts of any kind. We don't believe that He has a shin, face, hand etc "which are wonderful and imperceptible beyond beyond mortal perception". We don't think he will have a physical, visible form in the afterlife "wonderful and imperceptible beyond all comprehension". Not at all. We reject these ideas.

When you see verses and ahadith that mention these, these mean something else entirely. The Salafis, in their understandable fear of misinterpreting these, tend to take them at face value, and prefer not to dig into their layers of meaning. That's fine and all, but if they simply derive their meanings from the teachings of Ahlul Bayt (which they won't), then their confusion can be cleared. 

Allah says He does in the Qur'an. I take His words over your interpretation and meaning. If he does not have any other parts, such as you are claiming, you would have to prove that with His words. He states otherwise in the Qur'an and you say one thing. We do not have an opinion on the word of Allah nor do we interpret it because Allah cannot be compared. It is not a difficult thing to comprehend. If you say Allah hears and sees but not like us, apply that logic to what we say. If you deny it, then deny your own understanding because it is the exact same thing. It would make no sense for you to agree that Allah sees and hears not like us and reject what He says He has in the Qur'an itself and give your own spin on things. That is how the Christians and Jews went astray - altering, distorting, and giving their own meaning other than the apparent meaning in which Allah has revealed.

Again, nobody states Allah will have physical attributes. I do not know why it is so hard to understand when it has been made in previous posts. Allah will not have PHYSICAL attributes nor a PHYSICAL form. Physicality entails Allah being similar to creation - this is not what we believe. You can reject the idea all you would like, but at least understand it. 'Ali ibn Abu Talib nor any of the companions from the Ahlul Bayt ever interpreted it the way you did. They heard and obeyed. They did not give their interpretation. There is no confusion because it is self-explainable. I will summarize it:

Allah not like anything->Allah ascribes things to Himself->Allah has these ascriptions in which He describes not like anything else.

It is not hard to understand because you also say the same thing. Either Allah can hear you or He cannot. If he can, you really have no room to speak against us. If he does not, then you have an extraordinary problem.

وُجُوۡهٌ يَّوۡمَـئِذٍ نَّاضِرَةٌ
اِلٰى رَبِّهَا نَاظِرَةٌ

[Some] faces that Day will be radiant,
Looking towards their Lord.

By these verses, you have a problem at hand. Is this also metaphorical? What exactly will the bright faces be looking at if not Allah? If He cannot be seen, then what are they looking at and why are their faces bright? 

Like I said, you will run into problems. Lots of them. Also, be careful how you explain this.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
1 minute ago, Warilla said:

A literal hand is a physical structure with an apposable thumb.

A literal face is a physical structure that is the the forfront of that structure.

Thats my definition literal definition of both terms. Allah has neither.

There are hadith and linguistic evidence to support a metophorical meaning of both hand and face. So I can say it's metaphorical.

Seeing and hearing I haven't found evidence for the metaphor so I say I don't know. But it's not my definition of literal.

In both cases I'm happy to consider any definitions of literal.

Not a hand as we know it. As the example I gave before - a clock has a hand. We have hands. The hand of a clock is not the same as the hand of a human. This is a comparison, but Allah cannot be compared. His Hands are not in the physical sense as us humans or anything that has been created ever.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
1 minute ago, Nightclaw said:

Not a hand as we know it. As the example I gave before - a clock has a hand. We have hands. The hand of a clock is not the same as the hand of a human. This is a comparison, but Allah cannot be compared. His Hands are not in the physical sense as us humans or anything that has been created ever.

So again you told us what it is not (which I agree with) But to say it is literal you need to define that literal thing.

But you are insisting on using the word literal. So please define this literal hand, face, seeing hearing. So that we may all use it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...