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In the Name of God بسم الله

Temporary marriage?

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4 minutes ago, Logic1234 said:

I have just edited my comment to add more material to it. I am expecting that you perhaps would like to edit your comment too. 

Respond to what I have said while I answer. Provide evidence for this wrong "ijtihad".

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I think on must consider all these Traditions on Mutah from Sihaah Sitta then decide if it was haram or not. Sahih Bukhari: Narrated 'Abdullah: We used to participate in the holy battle

Im not knowledgeable enough to take part in the conversation, but im following

I cannot accept that line of reasoning. The reason why is because if everything that is coming out of the mouth of the Messenger of Allah(p.b.u.h) is wahiy (revelation from Allah(s.w.a)) and everythin

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51 minutes ago, smma said:
49 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

Salaam, 

Yes that is the verse that allows mutah.

 

I mentioned this because @Nightclaw kept saying mutah is not in the Quran. Now i guess the conversation will become how the Quranic verse isn't actually about mutah.

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14 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

It was not "banned" by 'Umar (may Allah be pleased with him).

I don't know why you are rejecting Umar's own testimony. Here are few ahadith:

 

Quote

حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْمُثَنَّى، وَابْنُ، بَشَّارٍ قَالَ ابْنُ الْمُثَنَّى حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ قَتَادَةَ، يُحَدِّثُ عَنْ أَبِي نَضْرَةَ، قَالَ كَانَ ابْنُ عَبَّاسٍ يَأْمُرُ بِالْمُتْعَةِ وَكَانَ ابْنُ الزُّبَيْرِ يَنْهَى عَنْهَا قَالَ فَذَكَرْتُ ذَلِكَ لِجَابِرِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ فَقَالَ عَلَى يَدَىَّ دَارَ الْحَدِيثُ تَمَتَّعْنَا مَعَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏.‏ فَلَمَّا قَامَ عُمَرُ قَالَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ يُحِلُّ لِرَسُولِهِ مَا شَاءَ بِمَا شَاءَ وَإِنَّ الْقُرْآنَ قَدْ نَزَلَ مَنَازِلَهُ فَأَتِمُّوا الْحَجَّ وَالْعُمْرَةَ لِلَّهِ كَمَا أَمَرَكُمُ اللَّهُ وَأَبِتُّوا نِكَاحَ هَذِهِ النِّسَاءِ فَلَنْ أُوتَى بِرَجُلٍ نَكَحَ امْرَأَةً إِلَى أَجَلٍ إِلاَّ رَجَمْتُهُ بِالْحِجَارَةِ ‏.‏

Abu Nadra reported: Ibn'Abbas commanded the performance of Mut'a putting lhram for 'Umra during the months of Dhu'I-Hijja and after completing it. then putting on Ibrim for Hajj), but Ibn Zubair forbade to do it. I made a mention of it to Jabir b. Abdullih and he said: It is through me that this hadith has been circulated. We entered into the state of Ihram as Tamattu' with the Messenger of Allah ﷺ. When 'Umar was Installed as Caliph, he said: Verily Allah made permissible for His Messenger ﷺ whatever He liked and as Re liked. And (every command) of the Holy Qur'an has been revealed for every occasion. So accomplish Hajj and Umra for Allah as Allah has commanded you;
and confirm by (proper conditions) the marriage of those women (with whom you have performed Mut'a). And any person would come to me with a marriage of appointed duration (Mut'a), I would stone him (to death). Qatada narrated this hadith with the same chain of transmitters saying: (That 'Umar also said): Separate your Hajj from 'Umra, for that is the most complete Hajj, and complete your Umra.

 Sahih Muslim, Vol. 3, Book of Pilgrimage, Hadith 2801

If you say ibn Abbas was not there in Khyber, here is another:

 

Quote

وَحَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْمُثَنَّى، وَابْنُ، بَشَّارٍ قَالَ ابْنُ الْمُثَنَّى حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنِ الْحَكَمِ، عَنْ عُمَارَةَ بْنِ عُمَيْرٍ، عَنْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ بْنِ أَبِي مُوسَى، عَنْ أَبِي مُوسَى، أَنَّهُ كَانَ يُفْتِي بِالْمُتْعَةِ فَقَالَ لَهُ رَجُلٌ رُوَيْدَكَ بِبَعْضِ فُتْيَاكَ فَإِنَّكَ لاَ تَدْرِي مَا أَحْدَثَ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ فِي النُّسُكِ بَعْدُ حَتَّى لَقِيَهُ بَعْدُ فَسَأَلَهُ فَقَالَ عُمَرُ قَدْ عَلِمْتُ أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَدْ فَعَلَهُ وَأَصْحَابُهُ وَلَكِنْ كَرِهْتُ أَنْ يَظَلُّوا مُعْرِسِينَ بِهِنَّ فِي الأَرَاكِ ثُمَّ يَرُوحُونَ فِي الْحَجِّ تَقْطُرُ رُءُوسُهُمْ ‏

Abu Musa, (Allah be pleased with him) reported that he used to deliver religious verdict in favor of Hajj Tamattu'. A person said to him: Exercise restraint in delivering some of your religious verdicts, for you do not know what the Commander of Believers has introduced in the rites (of Hajj) after you (when you were away in Yemen). He (Abu Musa, ) met him (Hadrat Umar) subsequently and asked him (about it), whereupon 'Umar said: I know that Allah's Apostle ﷺ and also his Companions did that (observed Tamattu'), but I do not approve that the married persons should have intercourse with their wives under the shade of the trees, and then set out for Hajj with water trickling down from their beads.

 Sahih Muslim, Vol. 3, Book of Pilgrimage, Hadith 2814

 

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*Rant alert*

Discussions about tafseer, rijal etc aside (which are no doubt important), the most common refrain against Mutah seems to be that it can be used "just for pleasure". The general trend seems to be that sex is sidelined and downplayed in discussions about marriage.

Looking through past threads about marriage in general, whenever someone talks about

1- the importance of sex in marriage

2- the importance of mutual attraction, or attraction being an important factor in spouse selection

3- marriage being the only halal tool that can be used to satisfy the natural sexual urge

 

He is instantly shot down and shunned as being immature, a pervert, deviant, only one thing on his mind etc etc

My culture has started taken this trend to the extreme. Parents accompanying their children to their honeymoon is fast gaining popularity now (LOL). Some monster-in-laws will refuse to let the husband and wife close their door, or display even a hint of affection towards each other without throwing a hissy fit.

 

These things are the result of blindly accepting Victorian and Puritan attitudes towards sex in general. These views are not necessarily Islamic like people think.

*Rant over*

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25 minutes ago, Logic1234 said:

Want to see more ijtihad :grin:, He ruled that Tayamum cannot be performed as an alternative to water, and was unconvinced by the testimony of the Sahabi Ammar ibn Yasir (Sahih Muslim Book 003, Number 0718) even though an entire verse on Tayamum is in Surah al Maida verse 5

Now, this shows lack of sincerity once again. He never stated that Tayyamum cannot be performed as an alternative. Not once did he say "this is not allowed" or anything of the sort. This shows you cherry-picking to look 'Umar al-Faruq (may Allah be pleased with him) bad. Let us look at the context of the narration concerning this instead of one separate one, isolated without any context.

حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ يَحْيَى، وَأَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ وَابْنُ نُمَيْرٍ جَمِيعًا عَنْ أَبِي مُعَاوِيَةَ، قَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو مُعَاوِيَةَ، عَنِ الأَعْمَشِ، عَنْ شَقِيقٍ،
قَالَ كُنْتُ جَالِسًا مَعَ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ وَأَبِي مُوسَى فَقَالَ أَبُو مُوسَى يَا أَبَا عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ أَرَأَيْتَ لَوْ أَنَّ رَجُلاً أَجْنَبَ فَلَمْ يَجِدِ الْمَاءَ شَهْرًا كَيْفَ يَصْنَعُ بِالصَّلاَةِ فَقَالَ عَبْدُ اللَّهِ لاَ يَتَيَمَّمُ وَإِنْ لَمْ يَجِدِ الْمَاءَ شَهْرًا ‏.‏ فَقَالَ أَبُو مُوسَى فَكَيْفَ بِهَذِهِ الآيَةِ فِي سُورَةِ الْمَائِدَةِ ‏{‏ فَلَمْ تَجِدُوا مَاءً فَتَيَمَّمُوا صَعِيدًا طَيِّبًا‏}‏ فَقَالَ عَبْدُ اللَّهِ لَوْ رُخِّصَ لَهُمْ فِي هَذِهِ الآيَةِ - لأَوْشَكَ إِذَا بَرَدَ عَلَيْهِمُ الْمَاءُ أَنْ يَتَيَمَّمُوا بِالصَّعِيدِ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ أَبُو مُوسَى لِعَبْدِ اللَّهِ أَلَمْ تَسْمَعْ قَوْلَ عَمَّارٍ بَعَثَنِي رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فِي حَاجَةٍ فَأَجْنَبْتُ فَلَمْ أَجِدِ الْمَاءَ فَتَمَرَّغْتُ فِي الصَّعِيدِ كَمَا تَمَرَّغُ الدَّابَّةُ ثُمَّ أَتَيْتُ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَذَكَرْتُ ذَلِكَ لَهُ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ إِنَّمَا كَانَ يَكْفِيكَ أَنْ تَقُولَ بِيَدَيْكَ هَكَذَا ‏"‏ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ ضَرَبَ بِيَدَيْهِ الأَرْضَ ضَرْبَةً وَاحِدَةً ثُمَّ مَسَحَ الشِّمَالَ عَلَى الْيَمِينِ وَظَاهِرَ كَفَّيْهِ وَوَجْهَهُ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ عَبْدُ اللَّهِ أَوَلَمْ تَرَ عُمَرَ لَمْ يَقْنَعْ بِقَوْلِ عَمَّارٍ
Shaqiq reported: I was sitting in the company of Abdullah and Abu Musa when Abu Musa said: O 'Abd al-Rahman (kunya of 'Abdullah b. Mas'ud), what would you like a man to do about the prayer if he experiences a seminal emission or has sexual intercourse but does not find water for a month? 'Abdullah said: He should not perform tayammum even if he does not find water for a month. 'Abdullah said: Then what about the verse in Sura Ma'ida:" If you do not find water, betake yourself to clean dust"? 'Abdullah said: If they were granted concession on the basis of this verse, there is a possibility that they would perform tayammum with dust on finding water very cold for themselves. Abu Musa said to Abdullah: You have not heard the words of 'Ammar: The Messenger of Allah ﷺ sent me on an errand and I had a seminal emission, but could find no water, and rolled myself in dust just as a beast rolls itself. I came to the Messenger of Allah ﷺ then and made a mention of that to him and he (the Holy Prophet) said: It would have been enough for you to do thus. Then he struck the ground with his hands once and wiped his right hand with the help of his left hand and the exterior of his palms and his face. 'Abdullah said: Did not you see that Umar was not fully satisfied with the words of 'Ammar only?
Sahih Muslim, Volume 1, hadith 716.

'Umar had only heard this from 'Ammar only and nobody else, hence why he was cautious of it. He never rejected it and was not made aware of it until just then. 

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5 minutes ago, Logic1234 said:

I don't know why you are rejecting Umar's own testimony. Here are few ahadith:

 

If you say ibn Abbas was not there in Khyber, here is another:

 

 

I do not know if you are playing games with me or attempting to troll, but this has nothing to do with temporary marriages. 

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14 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

Respond to what I have said while I answer. Provide evidence for this wrong "ijtihad".

:) 

 

Quote

حدثنا يزيد بن سنان نا مكي بن إبراهيم، عن مالك، عن نافع، عن ابن عمر، قال: قال عمر رضي الله عنه: متعتان كانتا على عهد النبي – صلى الله عليه وسلم – أنهى عنهما: متعة الحج، ومتعة النساء

Yazid bin Sinan – Maki bin Ibrahim – Malik – Naf’e – Ibn Umar – Umar said: ‘Two types of Mut’ah existed during Prophet’s time, I prohibit both, Mut’ah of Hajj and Mut’ah al-Nisa’.

Yazid bin Sinan: Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p325). Maki bin Ibrahim: Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah Thabt’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p211). Malik bin Anas: Ibn Hajar said: ‘Imam’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p151). Naf’e: Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p239).

Mustakhraj Abi Auwanah, Volume 4 page 255 Hadith 2697

If this is not sufficient, here is another:
 

Quote

عن أبي قلابة ، قال عمر بن الخطاب رضي الله عنه : « متعتان كانتا على عهد رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ، أنا أنهى عنهما وأعاقب عليهما : متعة النساء ، ومتعة الحج »

Saeed – Hushaim – Khalid – Abu Qulabah from Umar bin al-Khatab said: ‘Two types of Mut’ah were there during the time of Allah’s Messenger ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) and I prohibit both and will punish whoever performs it, Mut’ah with women and Mut’ah of Hajj’

Sunan Saeed bin Mansur, Volume 1 page 218 Tradition 852

Perhaps you need more, here we go:
 

Quote

 in Kanz al-Ummal:

“Two types of Mut’ah were present during the lifetime of Rasulullah (s), I prohibit them both, Mut’ah of Nisa and Mut’ah of Hajj”

In Tafseer Kabeer:

Umar said: “Two Mut’ah’s existed during Rasulullah’s lifetime and I now prohibit both of them.”
Tafseer al Kabeer, by Imam Fakhr ul-Razi, Page 42 & 43

:) Do you want more?

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Just now, Logic1234 said:

:) 

 

If this is not sufficient, here is another:
 

Perhaps you need more, here we go:
 

:) Do you want more?

You are failing to provide him prohibiting it first. He is simply reinforcing it being banned. Provide him stating it first. Stop providing me with all of these other narrations. He was first to prohibit it, no? Give me evidence for this from our books. 

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12 minutes ago, smma said:

I mentioned this because @Nightclaw kept saying mutah is not in the Quran. Now i guess the conversation will become how the Quranic verse isn't actually about mutah.

It is not. Why was it not revealed during such times and rather the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) simply stated it was permissible and cut it off after some time? It is not allowed according to this verse. 

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5 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

You are failing to provide him prohibiting it first.

:) So you need more.

Quote

Ali bin Saeed al-Razi – Isa bin Ibrahim al-Ghafeqi – Abdullah bin Wahab – Yunus bin Yazid – Atta al-Khurasani – Saeed bin al-Musayab said: ‘Umar had prohibited Mut’ah during the Hajj season and said: ‘I used to perform it with Allah’s Messenger (s) but I prohibit it and that is because a person comes from a far distance tired and dusty in order to perform Umra during the Hajj season, verily his dustiness, tiredness and his Talbia is only in his Umra, then when he passes by the house (of Allah) and ends the rites he wears cloth and perfume and sleeps with his woman if she was with him, until the day of Tawria he starts to get into Hajj and marches to Mina to perform Hajj without being dusty, tired. Surely Hajj is better than Umra.’’

Musnad al-Shamyeen by al-Tabarani, Volume 3 page 320 Tradition 2399 as well as in Kanz ul-Umal, Volume 5 page 164 Tradition 12477

Now understand the link:

 

Quote

Sahih Muslim, Book 007, Number 2814:

Abu Musa, (Allah be pleased with him) reported that he used to deliver religious verdict in favour of Hajj Tamattu’. A person said to him: Exercise restraint in delivering some of your religious verdicts, for you do not know what the Commander of Believers has introduced in the rites (of Hajj) after you (when you were away in Yemen). He (Abu Musa, ) met him (Hadrat Umar) subsequently and asked him (about it), whereupon ‘Umar said: I know that Allah’s Apostle (May peace be upon him) and also his Companions did that (observed Tamattu’), but I do not approve that the married persons should have intercourse with their wives under the shade of the trees, and then set out for Hajj with water trickling down from their beads.

 

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7 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

*Rant alert*

Discussions about tafseer, rijal etc aside (which are no doubt important), the most common refrain against Mutah seems to be that it can be used "just for pleasure". The general trend seems to be that sex is sidelined and downplayed in discussions about marriage.

Looking through past threads about marriage in general, whenever someone talks about

1- the importance of sex in marriage

2- the importance of mutual attraction, or attraction being an important factor in spouse selection

3- marriage being the only halal tool that can be used to satisfy the natural sexual urge

 

He is instantly shot down and shunned as being immature, a pervert, deviant, only one thing on his mind etc etc

My culture has started taken this trend to the extreme. Parents accompanying their children to their honeymoon is fast gaining popularity now (LOL). Some monster-in-laws will refuse to let the husband and wife close their door, or display even a hint of affection towards each other without throwing a hissy fit.

 

These things are the result of blindly accepting Victorian and Puritan attitudes towards sex in general. These views are not necessarily Islamic like people think.

*Rant over*

Yes. And this is actually a very crucial reason why Mutah is even denounced among many shia societies. 

I hate why such a judgemental thinking is put ahead without even looking into the marriage. 

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) sated that if Mutah was not prohibited, people will not fall for fornication. 

We are seeing these things now in the society. 

Unfortunate that even in the shia circles doing Mutah is denounced while they blush if someone has a girlfriend. Such a shame. 

The tradition of temporary marriage should be revived and propagated and promoted. It is important to rule out the culture of casual and live-in relationships now. 

 

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1 minute ago, Logic1234 said:

:) So you need more.

 

All of these are alluding to mut'ah Hajj, not marriage. I do not think you are reading what you are sending. Until you can provide me evidence that 'Umar prohibited it before the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) - which you will not and will never be able to do - then I will not respond. It is pointless, because you do not read what you send nor comprehend it.

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4 hours ago, Nightclaw said:

She can also marry if she is independent. If she is dependent upon her parents, she has to ask for permission. If she is independent, she can ask for her parents permission but can still engage in it. 

Imam As-Sadiq said: "There is no problem in marrying the virgin girl without her father's permission if she is happy with this." 
Tadhib by al-Tusi: volume 7, page 380.

This narration was in regards to temporary marriage, providing she meets the conditions.

This narration exists, yet we have narrations saying the opposite which is why on the basis of precaution it is generally not permitted. 

 

4 hours ago, Nightclaw said:

There are many differences as to why it is absolutely prohibited, but these are one of the reasons and it is in consensus that it is prohibited. I agree with most things on this site though not everything

I don't think there is a consensus. Others have already quoted the view of Bin Baz for instance. 

 

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On 11/23/2020 at 2:42 AM, smma said:

Assalam,

I have read in some places that shia Islam has a concept called " temprory marriage" is this real? What basis does it have in quran/hadith's? Can women also practice it? Just by its name it seems very unislamic to me 

There is nothing unislamic or unethical about temporary marriage. The consequences simply arise from abusing it. It's in the Quran, meaning that regardless of what you think about it, everyone can confirm that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) did give people this option to marry temporarily 

 

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I had my Wahhabi friend almost convinced that temporary marriage was legit. I showed him the verse and some tafseer. The lame argument about "will you let your mother, sister do it" was easily and swiftly dealt with.

When we got to the part about how the second caliph was the one who banned it, however, he dug his heels in and refused to discuss further. If the second caliph banned it, in his view, then he must be right, no questions asked. Doesn't matter what the Quran and Hadith say :dry:

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7 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

I don't think there is a consensus. Others have already quoted the view of Bin Baz for instance. 

If one or two scholars have an opposing view, it is not a consensus? This is wrong. A general agreement upon it being prohibited is the fact of the matter, regardless of what scholar says what - especially because of the evidences found in the Qur'an and Sunnah.

9 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

This narration exists, yet we have narrations saying the opposite which is why on the basis of precaution it is generally not permitted. 

So both narrations are authentic, which means they contradict each other.

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Just now, Sabrejet said:

When we got to the part about how the second caliph was the one who banned it, however, he dug his heels in and refused to discuss further. If the second caliph banned it, in his view, then he must be right, no questions asked. Doesn't matter what the Quran and Hadith say :dry:

Provide evidence, like I will ask every single person who makes this claim, that 'Umar was the first to ban it and not the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) from our books. If you cannot, stop saying it.

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3 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

I had my Wahhabi friend almost convinced that temporary marriage was legit. I showed him the verse and some tafseer. The lame argument about "will you let your mother, sister do it" was easily and swiftly dealt with.

When we got to the part about how the second caliph was the one who banned it, however, he dug his heels in and refused to discuss further. If the second caliph banned it, in his view, then he must be right, no questions asked. Doesn't matter what the Quran and Hadith say :dry:

Debating on topics is useless when we know they won't accept. 

We are answerable to Allah and know that our practices are in line with Allah. 

We presented an argument. they rejected and started making ridiculous arguments. It can go on and on but if no conclusion then it is useless. 

It's better instead to prsctically apply the rulings instead and rest we should leave to Allah.

Definitely, Allah is with the believers and Allah will grant us success. 

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2 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

We presented an argument. they rejected and started making ridiculous arguments. It can go on and on but if no conclusion then it is useless. 

Again, you say this without saying why my arguments are ridiculous. It was prohibited by the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. Is such a statement a ridiculous argument?

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59 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

'Umar had only heard this from 'Ammar only and nobody else, hence why he was cautious of it.

Was he unaware of the verse of Quran (Surah al Maida verse 5) too? 

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Just now, Logic1234 said:

Was he unaware of the verse of Quran (Surah al Maida verse 5) too? 

Wallahi, by Allah, the Lord of the Ka'abah, I will answer this question when you provide evidence for the claim you made about 'Umar al-Faruq (may Allah be pleased with him) prohibiting temporary marriages before the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) in our books. If not, admit you were wrong and you were making statements out of ignorance. Once we do this, I will happily answer your question!

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4 hours ago, Nightclaw said:

 

Let me make something clear - I am not assuming this is trickery of any sort. I am saying that a man can freely use her as he wills once agreed upon. She may think he wants to marry her and wants to accommodate until they can get married when he could very well just want to use her. It is used horrendously, as there are places like this in Iran where women do "temporary marriages" with people who come to visit the graves and memorial sites of their figures while a cleric is issuing this out. They usually take a few hours or a few minutes where, obviously, a fee is paid. It is not prohibited nor shut down by the Iranian government (and there is quite the amount of them) because it is allowed. 

 

I don't want to get involved in this thread, as these types of 'mutah' wars have been hashed and rehashed too much. 

But I need to respond to this fabrication that is being pushed above. There is no such things as what you are sayings. These are lies spread by BBC and others as part of the attempt by the West to demonize Iran. Iran is the current target, there have been other targets in the past and will be others in the future.

I have known 10s of men who grew up in the West and either moved to Iran or stayed there long term. Some of them lived next to the Shrines. I asked many times about this. I have never heard one single report of this happening like you are saying. These are trustworthy people that I have spoken with. 

Temporary Marriage happens in Iran, some even happen between people who live by the Shrines but this thing about 'Mutah on an industrial scale / business that is sponsored or encouraged by the 'clerics' is not true in the way it has been portrayed by you and other Western Propaganda media outlets, like BBC. The 'Clerics' encourage marriage, both temporary and permanent. They encourage it from the minbar, as many Sunni ulema also do (not the temporary marriage but marriage in general). That is the extent of it. The Government of Iran also encourages marriage, and since temporary marriage is legal in Iran, they also encourage this type of marriage. They don't have any direct involvement in facilitating it. That is up to the couple to decide whether they want to have this relationship or not. 

Marriage happens in Iran(both permanent and temporary), Prostitution happens in Iran, just like it happens in every country in the world. To say that Mutah in Iran is like 'Government sponsored prostitution' to encourage tourism or for some other reason is nonsense made up out of whole cloth by the Western Propaganda machine in order to demonize Iran and the Iranian people. Full Stop. Im actually surprised to hear this member repeating this fantasy based propaganda, as he seems to be an educated person. 

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2 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

I have known 10s of men who grew up in the West and either moved to Iran or stayed there long term. Some of them lived next to the Shrines. I asked many times about this. I have never heard one single report of this happening like you are saying. These are trustworthy people that I have spoken with. 

And I know dozens of people who say otherwise and they are trustworthy people whom I have spoken to. Does this now cancel out what I am saying?

3 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

To say that Mutah in Iran is like 'Government sponsored prostitution' to encourage tourism or for some other reason is nonsense made up out of whole cloth by the Western Propaganda machine in order to demonize Iran and the Iranian people.

You need to speak with whoever said this because I do not recall saying this. I simply said the government does not ban nor crack down on it when someone said that religious figures prohibit it.

Iran and the Western government are two sides of the same coin. They try to demonize Cuba and they would demonize Syria if it was not under attack. Why? Because they refuse to be owned by the Rothschild's. I am aware of this. However, if you think it is a narrative that is looking to push an agenda against Iran, you would be right. That does not change the fact that what they do is not apparent. It is all a game of shootout and Iran is giving the West ammunition.

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2 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

And I know dozens of people who say otherwise and they are trustworthy people whom I have spoken to. Does this now cancel out what I am saying?

Expat Iranians tend to be militant atheist, pro-West, and anti- IRI. I can give anecdotes about Iranian students in Turkey too (my brother's friends when he was studying there); they drank, partied, abandoned prayer, and took every opportunity to bash IRI.

The /r/Iran subreddit is an excellent example; it's full of these types.

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1 minute ago, Sabrejet said:

Expat Iranians tend to be militant atheist, pro-West, and anti- IRI. I can give anecdotes about Iranian students in Turkey too (my brother's friends when he was studying there); they drank, partied, abandoned prayer, and took every opportunity to bash IRI.

The /r/Iran subreddit is an excellent example; it's full of these types.

Ask them why. There is a reason and you will find out if you ask them. For every effect, a cause. 

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1 minute ago, Nightclaw said:

, I will answer this question when you provide evidence for the claim you made about 'Umar al-Faruq (may Allah be pleased with him) prohibiting temporary marriages before the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) in our books.


حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْمُثَنَّى، وَابْنُ، بَشَّارٍ قَالَ ابْنُ الْمُثَنَّى حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ قَتَادَةَ، يُحَدِّثُ عَنْ أَبِي نَضْرَةَ، قَالَ كَانَ ابْنُ عَبَّاسٍ يَأْمُرُ بِالْمُتْعَةِ وَكَانَ ابْنُ الزُّبَيْرِ يَنْهَى عَنْهَا قَالَ فَذَكَرْتُ ذَلِكَ لِجَابِرِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ فَقَالَ عَلَى يَدَىَّ دَارَ الْحَدِيثُ تَمَتَّعْنَا مَعَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏.‏ فَلَمَّا قَامَ عُمَرُ قَالَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ يُحِلُّ لِرَسُولِهِ مَا شَاءَ بِمَا شَاءَ وَإِنَّ الْقُرْآنَ قَدْ نَزَلَ مَنَازِلَهُ فَأَتِمُّوا الْحَجَّ وَالْعُمْرَةَ لِلَّهِ كَمَا أَمَرَكُمُ اللَّهُ وَأَبِتُّوا نِكَاحَ هَذِهِ النِّسَاءِ فَلَنْ أُوتَى بِرَجُلٍ نَكَحَ امْرَأَةً إِلَى أَجَلٍ إِلاَّ رَجَمْتُهُ بِالْحِجَارَةِ ‏.‏

This is the Arabic text of hadith, now see the english translation:

Abu Nadra reported: Ibn'Abbas commanded the performance of Mut'a putting lhram for 'Umra during the months of Dhu'I-Hijja and after completing it. then putting on Ibrim for Hajj), but Ibn Zubair forbade to do it. I made a mention of it to Jabir b. Abdullih and he said: It is through me that this hadith has been circulated. We entered into the state of Ihram as Tamattu' with the Messenger of Allah ﷺ. When 'Umar was Installed as Caliph, he said: Verily Allah made permissible for His Messenger ﷺ whatever He liked and as Re liked. And (every command) of the Holy Qur'an has been revealed for every occasion. So accomplish Hajj and Umra for Allah as Allah has commanded you;
and confirm by (proper conditions) the marriage of those women (with whom you have performed Mut'a). And any person would come to me with a marriage of appointed duration (Mut'a), I would stone him (to death). Qatada narrated this hadith with the same chain of transmitters saying: (That 'Umar also said): Separate your Hajj from 'Umra, for that is the most complete Hajj, and complete your Umra.

https://muflihun.com/muslim/7/2801

 

From a shia source:

Abu Nadhra said: Ibn Abbas commanded to do Mut’a while Ibn Zubair forbade to do it. I mentioned this to Jabir Ibn Abdillah and he said: It is through me that this Hadith has been circulated. We did Mut’a (of Hajj and women) at the time of the Messenger of Allah. When Umar was installed as Caliph, he said:

Verily Allah made permissible for his Messenger whatever He like and as He liked. And its command was revealed in Qur’an. Thus accomplish Hajj and Umra for Allah as Allah has commanded you, and confirm (by reverting to permanent marriage) the marriages of those women (with whom you have performed Mut’a). And any person would come to me with a marriage of appointed duration (i.e. Mut’a) I would stone him.

 

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17 minutes ago, Nightclaw said:

And I know dozens of people who say otherwise and they are trustworthy people whom I have spoken to. Does this now cancel out what I am saying?

You need to speak with whoever said this because I do not recall saying this. I simply said the government does not ban nor crack down on it when someone said that religious figures prohibit it.

Iran and the Western government are two sides of the same coin. They try to demonize Cuba and they would demonize Syria if it was not under attack. Why? Because they refuse to be owned by the Rothschild's. I am aware of this. However, if you think it is a narrative that is looking to push an agenda against Iran, you would be right. That does not change the fact that what they do is not apparent. It is all a game of shootout and Iran is giving the West ammunition.

I went to Hajj in 2016. I was approached (on more than 1 occasion) by prostitutes, albeit wearing abayas, a few meters from the Holy Kaaba. While I disagree with Al Saud government on many of their policies, and I have stated this very clearly here, I don't think they had anything to do with this. I never blamed them for this thing, in particular. The reason why is that I have traveled to many countries in the world and I am well aware that anywhere where you have lots of people, and especially lots of foreigners gatherer together, you will have prostitutes. In Iran, the prostitutes may call it 'Mutah' but unless the relationship fulfills all the conditions of Mutah, including the iddah for Mutah, which is two monthly cycles, it is not Mutah, it is Zina

You can't make a business out of Mutah, like you can with Prostitution. The numbers don't work. Yes, there have been threads about this here (unfortunately). 

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فَلَنْ أُوتَى بِرَجُلٍ نَكَحَ امْرَأَةً إِلَى أَجَلٍ إِلاَّ رَجَمْتُهُ بِالْحِجَارَةِ ‏

 And any person would come to me with a marriage of appointed duration (Mut'a), I would stone him (to death).

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1 hour ago, Nightclaw said:

So both narrations are authentic, which means they contradict each other.

I don't know if its authentic, but since we have various narrations saying the opposite the precaution is to follow these. 

1 hour ago, Nightclaw said:

If one or two scholars have an opposing view, it is not a consensus? This is wrong. A general agreement upon it being prohibited is the fact of the matter, regardless of what scholar says what - especially because of the evidences found in the Qur'an and Sunnah.

If you define consensus as the views of scholars you choose to recognize, then maybe. 

The Qur'an and the sunnah have not actually forbidden what you described. Your argument was 'it wasn't done' therefore it isn't permissible. 

Misyaar is hardly a 1-2 scholar oddity, it's quite well established in your school. 

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1 minute ago, Nightclaw said:

Ask them why. There is a reason and you will find out if you ask them. For every effect, a cause. 

Oh it's easy. Turns out, some people aren't big fans of sharia when it's properly implemented, and I think you'll agree. Most Muslims prefer to be cultural Muslims, rather than practising ones.

They long for the days of the Shah, when WomEN cOULD FrEely RoAM arOUND in SkIRts.

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2 minutes ago, Logic1234 said:


حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْمُثَنَّى، وَابْنُ، بَشَّارٍ قَالَ ابْنُ الْمُثَنَّى حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ قَتَادَةَ، يُحَدِّثُ عَنْ أَبِي نَضْرَةَ، قَالَ كَانَ ابْنُ عَبَّاسٍ يَأْمُرُ بِالْمُتْعَةِ وَكَانَ ابْنُ الزُّبَيْرِ يَنْهَى عَنْهَا قَالَ فَذَكَرْتُ ذَلِكَ لِجَابِرِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ فَقَالَ عَلَى يَدَىَّ دَارَ الْحَدِيثُ تَمَتَّعْنَا مَعَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏.‏ فَلَمَّا قَامَ عُمَرُ قَالَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ يُحِلُّ لِرَسُولِهِ مَا شَاءَ بِمَا شَاءَ وَإِنَّ الْقُرْآنَ قَدْ نَزَلَ مَنَازِلَهُ فَأَتِمُّوا الْحَجَّ وَالْعُمْرَةَ لِلَّهِ كَمَا أَمَرَكُمُ اللَّهُ وَأَبِتُّوا نِكَاحَ هَذِهِ النِّسَاءِ فَلَنْ أُوتَى بِرَجُلٍ نَكَحَ امْرَأَةً إِلَى أَجَلٍ إِلاَّ رَجَمْتُهُ بِالْحِجَارَةِ ‏.‏

This is the Arabic text of hadith, now see the english translation:

Abu Nadra reported: Ibn'Abbas commanded the performance of Mut'a putting lhram for 'Umra during the months of Dhu'I-Hijja and after completing it. then putting on Ibrim for Hajj), but Ibn Zubair forbade to do it. I made a mention of it to Jabir b. Abdullih and he said: It is through me that this hadith has been circulated. We entered into the state of Ihram as Tamattu' with the Messenger of Allah ﷺ. When 'Umar was Installed as Caliph, he said: Verily Allah made permissible for His Messenger ﷺ whatever He liked and as Re liked. And (every command) of the Holy Qur'an has been revealed for every occasion. So accomplish Hajj and Umra for Allah as Allah has commanded you;
and confirm by (proper conditions) the marriage of those women (with whom you have performed Mut'a). And any person would come to me with a marriage of appointed duration (Mut'a), I would stone him (to death). Qatada narrated this hadith with the same chain of transmitters saying: (That 'Umar also said): Separate your Hajj from 'Umra, for that is the most complete Hajj, and complete your Umra.

https://muflihun.com/muslim/7/2801

 

From a shia source:

Abu Nadhra said: Ibn Abbas commanded to do Mut’a while Ibn Zubair forbade to do it. I mentioned this to Jabir Ibn Abdillah and he said: It is through me that this Hadith has been circulated. We did Mut’a (of Hajj and women) at the time of the Messenger of Allah. When Umar was installed as Caliph, he said:

Verily Allah made permissible for his Messenger whatever He like and as He liked. And its command was revealed in Qur’an. Thus accomplish Hajj and Umra for Allah as Allah has commanded you, and confirm (by reverting to permanent marriage) the marriages of those women (with whom you have performed Mut’a). And any person would come to me with a marriage of appointed duration (i.e. Mut’a) I would stone him.

 

I do not care about your sources. Show me from my source where Al-Faruq prohibited it before the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). We can get into the nitty-gritty once you provide evidence 'Umar al-Faruq prohibited first. All these narrations do not say anything as you have claimed. 

Prove it from our books. I will not respond to you until you do so. 

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1 minute ago, Nightclaw said:

I do not care about your sources. Show me from my source

Hadith of Sahih Muslim is quoted above :D

Can you read his words:

فَلَنْ أُوتَى بِرَجُلٍ نَكَحَ امْرَأَةً إِلَى أَجَلٍ إِلاَّ رَجَمْتُهُ بِالْحِجَارَةِ

And any person would come to me with a marriage of appointed duration (Mut'a), I would stone him (to death).

Both the texts are taken from your source i.e., https://muflihun.com/muslim/7/2801

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4 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

I went to Hajj in 2016. I was approached (on more than 1 occasion) by prostitutes, albeit wearing abayas, a few meters from the Holy Kaaba. While I disagree with Al Saud government on many of their policies, and I have stated this very clearly here, I don't think they had anything to do with this. I never blamed them for this thing, in particular. The reason why is that I have traveled to many countries in the world and I am well aware that anywhere where you have lots of people, and especially lots of foreigners gatherer together, you will have prostitutes. In Iran, the prostitutes may call it 'Mutah' but unless the relationship fulfills all the conditions of Mutah, including the iddah for Mutah, which is two monthly cycles, it is not Mutah, whatever they call it. 

Prostitutes near the Ka'bah approaching you on multiple times? I doubt it, especially if it was a fear meters away from the Ka'bah. There are police there and they are well-aware of prostitutes in Mecca and there are certain things you need to do before entering the vicinity of al-Haraam. Prostitutes approached you while there were multitudes of police? While everyone was circling the Ka'bah? Out of all the places they choose, they go to the Ka'bah and the forefront, where the police reside? It does not make any sense for more than one reason, so I am inclined to not believe you.

As for what these prostitutes do concerning this, I am not sure if they wait two months. All I know is that is that the clerics permit it and it is known they do this, but the government does nothing.

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3 minutes ago, Logic1234 said:

Hadith of Sahih Muslim is quoted above :D

Can you read his words:

فَلَنْ أُوتَى بِرَجُلٍ نَكَحَ امْرَأَةً إِلَى أَجَلٍ إِلاَّ رَجَمْتُهُ بِالْحِجَارَةِ

And any person would come to me with a marriage of appointed duration (Mut'a), I would stone him (to death).

Both the texts are taken from your source i.e., https://muflihun.com/muslim/7/2801

Stoning to death itself is another ijtihad. He deemed mut'ah as zina. 

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6 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

Oh it's easy. Turns out, some people aren't big fans of sharia when it's properly implemented, and I think you'll agree. Most Muslims prefer to be cultural Muslims, rather than practising ones.

I am well aware. It is apparent with them. However, have you asked them in detail? They give specifics outside of wanting freedom. Sorry, "freedom".

7 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

They long for the days of the Shah, when WomEN cOULD FrEely RoAM arOUND in SkIRts.

There is a reason they want this. Have you tried asking them why in depth? They start abandoning their religion because of where they were raised at and how the government treats them, mostly.

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