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In the Name of God بسم الله

Context of Hadith of Ghadeer e Khum was Complaints from Yemen?

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32 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

When the Muslims returned from the journey, they would begin with the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) and give him Salam, then they would go to their homes.

This narration confirms what I am saying.

41 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

And Second Narration of Abu Saed Al-Khudri (رضي الله عنه) doesn't mention anything thus its of no use.

If this is the case, then his narration of them being addressed at Mecca is not the case.

24 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) dispatched them twice too yemen and one trip was almost 2 years before the last one.

I know this. I am talking about the one we are discussing at hand.

35 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

By the way first prove that Book seerah Ibn Ishaq is authentic and then prove that narration of Complaint is authentic!

Every single scholar unanimously agree that it is authentic. You do not accept anything authentic by our standards, so it does not make any sense for you to ask me to prove it to you. A clear paradoxical statement. 

If you can prove the story of Fatima having her ribs broken, I will prove the authenticity of Ibn Ishaq's book.

37 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Because at Ghadeer Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) didn't address one person specifically, rather addressed everyone as it was a sermon.

You are just getting confused before hadiths have same wording

Yes.

I am not getting it confused.

25 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Who were the men who complained about Ali? (Hadith doesn't even mention army or people of yemen)

Hadith doesn't mention people complained at Ghadeer e khum neither it mentions that Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) address them at Mecca or Ghadir.

Look at the chronology of events. That is how narrations work. Look at other narrations surrounding it instead of trying to distort history. Look at every single narration surrounding it.

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I already provided authentic narration to Support narration of Zaid Bin Arqam. And those narrations from Ali (عليه السلام) were authentic according to Twelver shia Salafi website as well. So proving n

Brother Syed Ali, just a quick thought About Arabic Grammar. You don't know everything about it, and he (Nightclaw) doesn't know everything about it. You know some things, he knows some things, I

Context of Ghadeer e Khum in Kitab Al Irshad: (Meanwhile) the Commander of the Faithful, peace be on him, set out with the soldiers who had accompanied him to Yemen. He had with him the breas

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يَا أَيُّهَا الرَّسُولُ بَلِّغْ مَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِن رَّبِّكَ وَإِن لَّمْ تَفْعَلْ فَمَا بَلَّغْتَ رِسَالَتَهُ وَاللّهُ يَعْصِمُكَ مِنَ النَّاسِ إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الْكَافِرِينَ

5:67

Some of Sunni references confirming that the revelation of the above verse of Qur’an was right before the speech of Prophet in Ghadir Khum:

(1) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, under commentary of verse 5:67, v12, pp 49-50, narrated on the authorities of Ibn Abbas, al-Bara Ibn Azib, and Muhammad Ibn ‘Ali.

(2) Asbab al-Nuzool, by al-Wahidi, p50, narrated on the authorities of Atiyyah and Abu Sa’id al Khudri.

(3) Nuzul al-Qur’an, by al-Hafiz Abu Nu’aym narrated on the authorities Abu Sa’id Khudri and Abu Rafi.

(4) al-Fusool al Muhimmah, by Ibn Sabbagh al-Maliki al-Makki, p24

(5) Durr al-Manthur, by al-Hafiz al-Suyuti, under commentary of verse 5:67

(6) Fathul Qadir, by al-Shawkani, under commentary of verse 5:67

(7) Fathul Bayan, by Hasan Khan, under commentary of verse 5:67

(8) Shaykh Muhi al-Din al-Nawawi, under commentary of verse 5:67

(9) al-Sirah al-Halabiyah, by Noor al-Din al-Halabi, v3, p301

(10) Tafsir al-Nishaboori v6, p194

Upon receiving the verse, the Prophet (S) stopped on that place (the pond of Khum) which was extremely hot. Then he sent for all people who have been ahead in the way, to come back and waited until all pilgrims who fell behind, arrived and gathered.

He ordered Salman (رضي الله عنه) to use rocks and camel toolings to make a pulpit (minbar) so he could make his announcement. It was around noon time in the first of the Fall, and due to the extreme heat in that valley, people were wrapping their robes around their feet and legs, and were sitting around the pulpit, on the hot rocks.

On this day the Messenger of Allah spent approximately five ours in this place; three hours of which he was on the pulpit. He recited nearly one hundred verses from The Glorious Qur’an, and for seventy three times reminded and warned people of their deeds and future. Then he gave them a long speech. The following is a part of his speech which has been widely narrated by the Sunni traditionists:

The Messenger of Allah declared: "It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. I am leaving for you two precious things and if you adhere both of them, you will never go astray after me. They are the Book of Allah and my progeny, that is my Ahlul-Bayt. The two shall never separate from each other until they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."

Then the Messenger of Allah continued: "Do I not have more right over the believers than what they have over themselves?”People cried and answered: "Yes, O’ Messenger of God.”Then Prophet (S) held up the hand of ‘Ali and said: "Whoever I am his leader (Mawla), ‘Ali is his leader (Mawla). O’ God, love those who love him, and be hostile to those who are hostile to him."

ألَسْتُ أولى بالمؤمنين من أنفسهم؟ قالوا بلى يارسول الله. قال: من كنت مولاه فعلي مولاه. اللهم وال من والاه و عاد من عاداه.

Immediately after the Prophet (S) finished his speech, the following verse of Holy Qur’an was revealed:

"Today I have perfected your religion and completed my bounty upon you, and I was satisfied that Islam be your religion.”(Qur’an 5:3)

Some of Sunni references which mentioned the revelation of the above verse of Qur’an in Ghadir Khum after the speech of the Prophet:

(1) al-Durr al-Manthur, by al-Hafiz Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, v3, p19

(2) Tarikh, by Khatib al-Baghdadi, v8, pp 290,596 from Abu Hurayra

(3) Manaqaib, by Ibn Maghazali, p19

(4) History of Damascus, Ibn Asakir, v2, p75

(5) al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p13

(6) Manaqib, by Khawarazmi al-Hanfi, p80

(7) al-Bidayah wal-Nihayah, by Ibn Kathir, v3, p213

(8) Yanabi’ al-Mawaddah, by al-Qudoozi al-Hanafi, p115

(9) Nuzul al-Qur’an, by al-Hafiz Abu Nu’aym narrated on the authority Abu Sa’id Khudri.

After his speech, the Messenger of Allah asked every body to give the oath of allegiance to ‘Ali (عليه السلام) and congratulate him. Among those who gave him the oath were Umar, Abu Bakr, and Uthman. It is narrated that Umar and Abu Bakr said:

"Well done Ibn Abi Talib! Today you became the leader (Mawla) of all believing men and women."

Sunni references:

(1) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v4, p281

(2) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, v12, pp 49-50

(3) Mishkat al-Masabih, by al-Khatib al-Tabrizi, p557

(4) Habib al-Siyar, by Mir Khand, v1, part3, p144

(5) Kitabul Wilayah, by Ibn Jarir al-Tabari

(6) al-Musannaf, by Ibn Abi Shaybah

(7) al-Musnad, by Abu Ya’ala

(8) Hadith al-Wilayah, by Ahmad Ibn `Uqdah

(9) Tarikh, by Khatib al-Baghdadi, v8, pp 290,596 from Abu Hurayra 

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References show all happened at Mecca.

Its clear to you now. If you don't want to accept, then its upto you.

Argument of Sunnis on Ghadeer is this weak. It got refuted by a common twelver (me) who know nothing. Yet ts.net and other salafis post it like OMG they refuted entire shia mazhab lol.

No wonder why they ran away from Hassan Allahyari.

inshaAllah this thread will benefit many people.

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On 11/25/2020 at 12:01 AM, Nightclaw said:

 

If you can prove the story of Fatima having her ribs broken, I will prove the authenticity of Ibn Ishaq's book

Challenge accepted!

Since you'll prove Ishaqs seerah authentic from your sources,

I will use my sources to prove that event is authentic.

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People who use this excuse have to explain why Imam Ali never mentioned this 20 years later when he quoted the Ghadir Hadith in al-Ruhba which some say is a courtyard in the most in Kufa. 
 

https://sunnah.com/search?q=Ali+mawla+stand+

in addition there are the many Shia traditions from the early books and Zaydi sources quote the imams relying on Ghadir.

 

in other words none of these traditions mention the event in Yemen! The ahl al Sunna would have to demonstrate from Shia sources that the imams referenced Ghadir with the event. They can’t. They have been denying Ghadir since Saqifa so move on chaps..

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Here are some beautiful Ghadir traditions from the imams from the Zaydi school. We really sometimes forget how our own school and books are more important than the Nawasib, we merely use them as secondary sources to prove our point!

Imam al-Hussein bin ‘Ali (عليه السلام)—It is narrated by Hāfiz Muhammad bin Suleiman al-Kufi with a complete chain of narrators that a man came to Imam al-Hussein (عليه السلام) and asked him about his father, ‘Ali (عليه السلام). He said:

Verily, Allah—the Blessed and Exalted—taught His Prophet every manner. When He completed this, He bestowed upon him the affair (al-amr). Then, He said: {Whatsoever the Messenger gives thee, take it. Whatever he prohibits thee from, leave it} (Q. 59:7). Verily, Allah’s Messenger, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, taught ‘Ali this very same manner that he was taught. When He completed this, he bestowed upon him the affair. Then, he said: ((Whoever I have authority over, Ali has authority over)).       

 

Imam Ja’far bin Muhammad as-Sādiq (عليه السلام)—It is narrated on the authority of Imam Mu’ayyad Billah Ahmed bin al-Hussein al-Hāruuni (عليه السلام) with his chain of authority going to Ja’far as-Sādiq that he was asked about the meaning of what the Messenger, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, said to ‘Ali on Ghadīr. He said: 

By Allah, the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, was asked about it and he said: ((Allah is my Guardian. He has more authority over me than I have over myself, and I have no say in the matter with Him. I am the guardian of the believers. I have more authority over them than they have over themselves, and they have no say in the matter with me. Whomever I am the guardian of, I have more authority over him than he has over himself, and he has no say in the matter with me. So, ‘Ali is his guardian. He has more authority over one than one has over himself, and he has no say in the matter with him)). 

 

Imam Zayd bin ‘Ali (عليه السلام)—It is narrated by Hāfiz Muhammad bin Suleiman al-Kufi with a complete chain of narrators that Imam Zayd (عليه السلام) was asked the intended meaning of the hadith: ((Whoever I have authority over, Ali has authority over)). He replied:

He, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, appointed (nasaba) him in a known way so that it can be recognised who is the Party of Allah in the case of separation (furqa).   

 

Imam Zayd (عليه السلام) was also reported to have said in his Tathbīt al-Wasīya:

‘Ali (عليه السلام) had more right to Allah and His Messenger, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, than the people. He was their imam after their Prophet. 

 

Imam Zayd (عليه السلام) was also reported to have said regarding the hadith: ((Ali’s position to mine is like that of Aaron’s position to Moses except that there will be no Prophet after me)):

He [i.e. the Prophet] likened him to Aaron in position. Therefore, it is necessary that position be known to us and not unknown. Aaron does not have position except in three things: position of brotherhood, position of partnership [i.e. in Prophethood] and position of successorship (khilāfa). The intellect excludes the position of brotherhood due to lineage. The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, excluded the position of Prophethood due to his exception. Nothing remains except Imamate.

 

Imam al-Hasan bin al-Hasan (عليه السلام)—It is narrated by Hāfiz Muhammad bin Suleiman al-Kufi with a complete chain of narrators that al-Hasan bin al-Hasan (عليه السلام) was asked the intended meaning of the hadith: ((Whoever I have authority over, Ali has authority over)). He replied:

Allah did that to make evident the one who is protected (ma’suum) in the religion and not astray. 

 

Imam Ahmed bin Isa bin Zayd (as)—Sharīf al-Hasani narrated with a complete chain of narrators that Imam Ahmed bin Isa (عليه السلام) said:

Allah’s Messenger, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, appointed ‘Ali bin Abi Tālib (عليه السلام) as the leader of the people. He was the best of them according to Allah and him [i.e. the Prophet]. He made people to know that he is to be after him. 

 

Imam al-Hasan bin Yahya bin al-Hussein bin Zayd (as)—Sharīf al-Hasani narrated with a complete chain of narrators that Imam al-Hasan bin Yahya (عليه السلام) said: 

The imam that was obligatory to obey after Allah’s Messenger, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, was ‘Ali bin Abi Tālib (عليه السلام). 

   

Sharīf al-Hasani also narrated with a complete chain of narrators that Imam al-Hasan bin Yahya (عليه السلام) said: 

There is consensus among the scholars of Allah’s Messenger’s Progeny that ‘Ali bin Abi Tālib was the best of people after Allah’s Messenger, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny. He was the most knowledgeable of them, as well as the one most deserving of his [i.e. the Prophet’s] position.     

 

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On 1/5/2021 at 1:16 PM, Guest Haidari said:

People who use this excuse have to explain why Imam Ali never mentioned this 20 years later when he quoted the Ghadir Hadith in al-Ruhba which some say is a courtyard in the most in Kufa. 
 

https://sunnah.com/search?q=Ali+mawla+stand+

in addition there are the many Shia traditions from the early books and Zaydi sources quote the imams relying on Ghadir.

 

in other words none of these traditions mention the event in Yemen! The ahl al Sunna would have to demonstrate from Shia sources that the imams referenced Ghadir with the event. They can’t. They have been denying Ghadir since Saqifa so move on chaps..

Exactly bro. You see there is absolutely no proof for that even in Sunni books that Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) stopped at Ghadir to address Sahaba complaining about what Ali (عليه السلام) did in Yemen.

And MashaAllah you second post was very informative.

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