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In the Name of God بسم الله

Difference between Alawis and Alevis ?


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Salaam,

From my knowledge, there's these 2 religious groups of "Shia muslims": the Alawites of Syria, and the Alevis of Turkey. To me, it sounds like they are the same, as Alawi sounds arabic and Alevi seems to be the same word but in Persian/Turkish. For that reason, are they the same religion (located in different geographical locations), or are they completly different in beliefs and practices ? Can we consider them Shias, or are they so different that we can call them non-muslims, like the Druze ?

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I once spoke to one who originally descended from Syria (not sure which branch). They are permitted to drink alcohol; the women wear exposing clothes as if it is acceptable, they believe in reincarnation and they hold the opinion that Allah lives within them. Also, not stereotyping, but the men often have multiple wives too. They have great reverence for Imam Ali but are often named Abu Bakr, Umar and Osman. They seem to be quite a close knit and private community who don't reveal much about their religious views. I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

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  • 5 months later...
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Posted (edited)

If anyone has more info pls share, I would love to know more information about alawis because what brother/sister above me said is what I heard about alawis. 

Edited by Diaz
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Posted (edited)

Wa alaikum salam.

I don't know about Syrian Alewis or Nusayris (Though, there exists a large number of them in the Turkish cities close to Syria. Like; Mersin, Hatay and Gazi Antep). But I can tell you about Turkish/Kurdish Alevis in Anatolia.

Turkish Alevis are Muslims, not practicing much (but hey, in Turkey who does? Sunnis are not practicing either). But the Alevis have the belief of Tawhid, Nubuwwah, Adalah, Imamah and Maad. Which makes them shia Muslims. They don't have many sources in their hands (i.e. Nahjal Balagha or Hadith Books), and their sect has gradually turned into a culture, rather than a school of thought. And it is because of the ban on their Dargah's, Tekke's  during the time of the Ottomans and the Godless Ataturk times (well Ataturk banned Sunni-Sufi Dargahs/Tekkes/Khanqahs as well, so it was worse). Anyway; because the Alevis did not have the way to study and learn their religion deeply, the religion was transferred to the young generations via the talks (of the DEDE's, literal meaning is grandfather, and it means like Sheikh), poetry (Ozan and Ashiks) and etcetera. So, every common songs the Alevis sing today; talks about three things; "La ilaha illallah." "Muhammad Rasulullah" "Aliyyan Waliyyullah" and they refer to Imam Ali as Shah/King of the saints/awliya.

Here's the most common song they sing (Lyrics and English translation)

https://lyricstranslate.com/tr/Eyvallah-sahim-Eyvallah-sahim.html

You see it talks about Tawhid, Nubuwwah, Imamah and Miraj (ascension of Prophet Muhammad) and etc.

Though the sect got some biddahs in them, like SEMAH (it is like the whirling dervishes of sufism/sunnism), or pictures of twelve imams and etc. And these innovations was introduced by Bektashi Order.

So, you see, not all Alevis are the same. There are different sects in it. And I could categorize them as three main parts:

1- The pure, preserved Alevilik/Alevism and it is just like twelver Shia Islam. They mainly reside in the cities like Adana, Çorum and others. They are in contact with Turkish Jafaris (There are almost 2 Million Twelvers in Turkey, mostly Azeris). And the pure Alevis are growing in number day by day, by the dawah of the Jafaris. Here's an article in Turkish that quotes some sectarian wahhabis talking about the "assimilation" of Alevis and their becoming shiites. It says, the Iranians and the Turkish Jafaris take the DEDE's and Alevi elders to the shrines of 12 Imams in Iraq and Iran and introduce them to the Jafari faith. The article also quotes Shia scholars, who say that 12 Imams are there in Alevi thought and what's wrong in it? That Alevis are visiting the tombs of their imams.

https://www.indyturk.com/node/321491/haber/aleviler-şiileştirilmeye-mi-çalışılıyor

So, you see, they are growing in number. At the end of their researches and journeys, some ditch the name Alevi and say they are Jafari. While others keep the name Alevi and have Jafari faith.

You can sutdy these Alevis-Jafaris on http://www.alevisesi.com and http://www.ehlibeytforum.com

They have Alevi mosques in some cities and pray and fast and do matam majalis. So, basically they are new shia muslims.

2- Bektashi Order, they form the majority of Alevis. This group has the "Cemevi" there they meet, talk, sing Ashiks songs about God, Peophet, Imam Ali and twelve imams and sadly dance (samah). These Alevis don't practice salah, sawm much. But the sad part is that the ban on their hanqahs, religious schools caused this secularism (I mean who would go to the mosque and pray behind an imam that calls you deviant or a disbeliever? So they did not have the opportunity to pray, study in congregation. So the fundemantals of the faith and practices are lost.) And yet the "sunni" Turks did not suffice on their oppression, there are even slander/smear campaigns like "Mum Söndü" (the candle/light is out) where they claimed about the CEMEVİS (like the husayniyyahs of shias and dhikr places of sufis... Where Alevis met and did dhikr and matam in the dim light -you know you can get more emotional and cry when you are sure people don't see your face), adn claimed that Alevis meet there and turn off the lights and have sex with whomever they encounter first (accusing Alevis of homosexuality, group sex, swapping, incest and all other filth). So; yes, sadly, when you are a minority in a country and "people" have no shame, they can accuse with all the filth-fantasies they have in their minds. Look up the term "Mum Söndü" and you will find out. Anyway, this group also have Tawhid, Nubuwwah and Imamah beliefs. But because they are not very well-versed (though they have BUYRUKLAR, especially "İmam Cafer Buyrukları" and others, meaning that the traditions/sayings of Imam Jafar Sadiq) which are all about akhlaq/morality. So, this group has their moral nature and opposed to the claims against them, they say that "Religion is morality and we have it but you (the accusers) don't".

And this group is growing less in number. Firstly because of the motto of "Mosques are worshpping places, not Cemevis". Secondly, because they have few children. And thirdly; some of them become Jafari shia and some Khanafi sunnis; and sadly:

3- Atheists. This group -very few in number- is just Alevi by name and yet are Atheists. They are leftist-communists. And most of them are forced to do so as a REACTION, because of the oppression, accusings and etc. So, "They are basically saying if religion is this (the accusings on us) and the only true path is denial of our teachings totally, then let it be yours". A bad reaction indeed. They are mostly from cities like; Tunceli, Sivas, Erzurum etc. (And if you study the Alevi Massacres by Ataturk or later by some Grey Wolves; in Dersim, Maraş, Çorum etc. you will know why they are from these cities). I wish they met Shia Islam and its revolutionary spirit before they chose communism.

Anyway. If you have anything else to ask, please feel free to.

Edited by islamicmusic
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Posted (edited)

This is a fact, if you don't or can't form a HAWZAH and teach your fellow Muslims about the faith, it will dreail from the path. The devil is busy. Even in Iran, if the Hawza and Wilayat al Faqih were not there, the devil i.e. the BRITISH would have introduced many biddah to the religion. See an Iranian Professor warning millions in Tahran Friday prayers against some rituals (howlings etc.) started by the ghulat;

I remember watching another video of Syed Hasan Nasrallah warning about similar innovations (lion costumes, etc.)

So you see, you have to have a seminary/tekke/dargah/hawza to keep your school of thought intact and to progress. Otherwise; innovations emerge and accumulate in centuries to come. That's why, the shia islam who were away from Najaf, Mashad etc. did not stay intact.

Edited by islamicmusic
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1 hour ago, Diaz said:

What’s that?

I think it refers to some people dressing up as lions (with costumes) and acting as is they're mourning for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام). Since supposedly Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is referred as Asadullah/Lion of God, that supposedly represents Imam Ali mourning for Imam Hussain. IMO it looks really cringe, and even ruins the image of Shi'ism. Here is an example:

 

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Posted (edited)

Well, if we don't put a stop to these innovations, they will turn out to be like Baktashi Order and their Semah.

Here's the video of Sayyid Hasan Nasrallah warning:

https://www.purestream-media.com/video/sayyid-hasan-nasrallah-bashes-shameful-self-made-rituals-arabic-sub-english/

Edited by islamicmusic
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  • 2 weeks later...
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You'll just have to meet and ask an Alawite in order to learn their beliefs I guess. But I'm pretty sure there are some good pieces of information in some sites.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/12/2021 at 11:19 AM, Mohamad Abdel-Hamid said:

some people dressing up as lions (with costumes)

This is where we (Shi'a) get carried away...the chained dogs of Fatima thing, extreme ma'tam (bleeding, flagellation) and now this?? ammunition for the Wahhabis and atheists/secularists

Edited by Eddie Mecca
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12 hours ago, Mohamad Abdel-Hamid said:

You'll just have to meet and ask an Alawite in order to learn their beliefs I guess.

They won’t say what they believe in.

 

12 hours ago, Mohamad Abdel-Hamid said:

But I'm pretty sure there are some good pieces of information in some sites.

Just like what aflower (above) said, I just want to make sure if it’s true or no, that’s it.

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