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In the Name of God بسم الله

Uncle Joe . . .

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9 hours ago, Guest Mullah_Sadra said:

Hello brother,

Having read some of your posts, particularly with regards to the current political events, I'm curious as to what your identity is? You are a Shia Muslim who is a Trump supporter? If not a Trump supporter, do you consider yourself a supporter of the U.S. Republican Party? 

I find the possibility fascinating and would like to know. 

Actually I remember reading that trump made gains in the muslim electorate in the 2020 election. 

When you come to think about it the democrats are not really better than republicans in any way, from a muslim perspective.

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On 1/21/2021 at 6:49 PM, hasanhh said:

"Let me remind you, that extremism in the Defense of Liberty, is no vice."

One echo from the Cow Palace.

I just don't understand how any rational person, let alone a Muslim, would vote for Trump (then again, the US has a problem in rational thought). The US republican party is the only major political party in the world that has made self-destruction of the human race part of its formal platform. They either pretend that human-induced climate change is not real (or a hoax), or they just flat out say they don't care (like Trump). Making money is more important for them than the potential to destroy the planet. The Democrats have many problems, especially from a social morality perspective and they are equally imperialistic war-mongering... so I am not advocating for support for the US Democratic party, I just think that they are definitely the lesser of two evils. The republicans are completely delusional and existentially dangerous. 

Is the Defense of liberty the defense to harm other people? Many Trumpists don't want to wear "oppressive" face masks because it threatens to take their "liberty." But Islam is against extreme notions of "liberty" that harm the general good of the society. I think the American obsession with personal liberty is often used as a euphemism for being able to say and do whatever you want, everyone else be damned. But this is not an Islamic outlook, it is a sick Western ideology that emanates from Kufr. 

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On 1/22/2021 at 1:37 AM, Mahdavist said:

Actually I remember reading that trump made gains in the muslim electorate in the 2020 election. 

When you come to think about it the democrats are not really better than republicans in any way, from a muslim perspective.

It's not a question of supporting Democrats. You can support third party candidates like the Green party, even though they are not likely to get elected. The question is why would a Muslim vote for Donald Trump? These are some main policy positions of Trumpism which are clearly antithetical to basic humanity (let alone Islam):

  • A core philosophy of white supremacy 
  • Staunch opposition to any action to combat climate change
  • Continued transfer of wealth to a tiny elite faction of society (1%), which owns more wealth than the bottom 90%
  • A pathological commitment to the destruction of the Islamic Republic of Iran

This list can be extended ad nauseam. The point is, what argument can you make for supporting him? He literally just incited a mob of delusional psychopaths to attack the US capitol because he didn't like the election outcome. In fact, he told people that he wouldn't accept the outcome if he lost BEFORE the election even happened. 

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1 hour ago, Guest Mullah_Sadra said:

a Muslim, would vote for Trump

35% of US did. lt would have been more if he didn't do that dumb "muslim ban" --but that is what Paula White and other evigelical leaders in 'his base' wanted.

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25 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

35% of US did. lt would have been more if he didn't do that dumb "muslim ban" --but that is what Paula White and other evigelical leaders in 'his base' wanted.

35% of American Muslims voted for Trump? Maybe according to exit polls, which is a very unreliable method of analysis. (we all know how wrong the polls can be in general). And even if 99% of people voted for him, it doesn't make it right. 

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7 hours ago, Guest Mullah_Sadra said:

The point is, what argument can you make for supporting him?

Personally I don't support him, or any politician for that matter. 

Reasons why I think people may have preferred him to his opponents:

-he was in favor of pulling US troops out of foreign countries (and even did so to a certain extent)

-he favored local manufacturing over outsourcing (before covid,  unemployment was at record low levels)

-his party is generally anti abortion and anti gay marriage

-he took a strong stance on illegal immigration

Edited by Mahdavist
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8 hours ago, hasanhh said:

35% of US did. lt would have been more if he didn't do that dumb "muslim ban" --but that is what Paula White and other evigelical leaders in 'his base' wanted.

The Muslim ban and the unjust killing of Soleimani, if he didn't do those two you've got a strong case for Trump among the Muslims. 

Edit: The Soleimani part is in respect to Shias, I don't think Sunnis would care much (as a demographic) and the strong arguments for trump are along the lines of what brother Mahdavist shared. That is of course if someone intends on voting, I still wouldn't vote regardless, but if I would it would be for him.

Edit 2: All western politicians are corrupt, because their politics/policies are corrupt so arguing by virtue of him being corrupt might as well land you in the belief that the entire system ought to be thrown out - in which you shouldn't really have a say in their political affairs i.e voting. Joe Biden might offer a slight percentile of more coziness to the Muslim living in the U.S, but I pray that Allah aids those poor Muslims back home who will continue to suffer at their hands, as they did with Obama. 

Edited by Mohammad313Ali
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On 1/25/2021 at 1:24 AM, Mohammad313Ali said:

The Muslim ban and the unjust killing of Soleimani, if he didn't do those two you've got a strong case for Trump among the Muslims. 

Edit: The Soleimani part is in respect to Shias, I don't think Sunnis would care much (as a demographic) and the strong arguments for trump are along the lines of what brother Mahdavist shared. That is of course if someone intends on voting, I still wouldn't vote regardless, but if I would it would be for him.

Edit 2: All western politicians are corrupt, because their politics/policies are corrupt so arguing by virtue of him being corrupt might as well land you in the belief that the entire system ought to be thrown out - in which you shouldn't really have a say in their political affairs i.e voting. Joe Biden might offer a slight percentile of more coziness to the Muslim living in the U.S, but I pray that Allah aids those poor Muslims back home who will continue to suffer at their hands, as they did with Obama. 

None of you have made a strong case for Trump as Muslims and Hassanhh has refused to address any of my arguments. If you are worried about the treatment of Muslims beyond US borders, there is absolutely no argument for Trump (especially in this past election cycle).

Let's look at some key positions of Trump regarding the Muslim world:

  • Pulled the US out of an agreement with Iran that was supported by all major powers, after the US ITSELF had helped negotiate the deal (dumbest move in the hostory of international relations)
  • full- fledged support of the vicious Saudi attack on Yemen. When a rare bipartisan motion in the US congress came up to end US Military support for the war (targeting, refueling and logistics support to the Saudis and Emiratis) Trump VETOED the measure as he is in the pocket of MBS and Zionists
  • Did NOT end the occupations in Afghanistan and Iraq at all. Oversaw a modest troop pull out, while sending more US troops to illegally occupy Syrian oil fields (those troops are still there). 
  • Also sent MORE troops to the ME as a threat to Iran (there are now more total troops in the region than when he took office)
  • Trump is reported to have told Xi Jingpin of China that he supported his policy of detaining Uighur Muslims in concentration camps. 
  • Complete economic warfare campaign against Iran with open and stated goal of overthrowing the government
  • Unilaterally moving the US embassy to Jerusalem 

Democrats have done many similar things when they are in power. But the argument that trump was some sort of outsider who has radically altered US foreign policy (especially towards the Muslim world), is a joke. He has fundamentally changed nothing. Maybe you had a case for that argument in 2016, before he was a known entity... now in 2020 you have no such argument. So the conclusion must be that either the US Muslims who voted for him are very uninformed (in line with most Americans), or that they suffer from the same deranged attitudes that are pervasive in American Culture, namely a general lack of historical perspective, narrow self interest (i.e. my taxes went down so if the rest of the country/world suffers it's fine) and partisan fanaticism. 

I believe that the US is in a cultural death spiral. Usually societies elevate people like Trump as their leaders once they reach the stage of decadence that the US finds itself in. Unfortunately, such moves rarely result in the revival that they seek. The US was in a decline well before Trump came along, all he did was accelerate the decline to warp speed levels. There is hope for humanity, but it won't be coming from the US I'm afraid. We must prepare ourselves as a people for the return of the Imam of the time. 

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42 minutes ago, Guest Mullah_Sadra said:

Democrats have done many similar things when they are in power.

This is what it boils down to. Like I said before I don't care for trump and I certainly wouldn't have voted for him if I was an American (I don't vote anyway), but for all the outrage you show at muslim trump voters I hardly see how voting for a democrat is any different.

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1 hour ago, Guest Mullah_Sadra said:

I believe that the US is in a cultural death spiral. Usually societies elevate people like Trump as their leaders once they reach the stage of decadence that the US finds itself in. Unfortunately, such moves rarely result in the revival that they seek. The US was in a decline well before Trump came along, all he did was accelerate the decline to warp speed levels. There is hope for humanity, but it won't be coming from the US I'm afraid.

l have completely agreed with this assessment since the 1970s. Especially-as per this statement- by 1980.

l do not disagree with your observations, but these are one sided, limited to Muslim countries. And excepting Yemen, all have survived. 

Your position has not included Europe, NAFTA, China, Space Force, the Borders and so forth.

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On 1/28/2021 at 1:34 PM, Mahdavist said:

This is what it boils down to. Like I said before I don't care for trump and I certainly wouldn't have voted for him if I was an American (I don't vote anyway), but for all the outrage you show at muslim trump voters I hardly see how voting for a democrat is any different.

If you look at my previous posts, you will see that I haven't advocated for the Democrats (Just as I acknowledge you haven't advocated for Republicans and Trumpists). My original inquiry was how could a Muslim American justify voting for Trump (especially in 2020)? This is what you call, in argumentation, the "burden of proof." The question was posed, and the burden of proof is on those who support him to make their case. So far, no meaningful case has been made by those who responded to me, other than some general argument that "the Democrats are bad too" or "all Western politicians are corrupt" (a vague and meaningless statement). 

The one area I will agree with these posters is on the social morality issues (abortion, gay marriage etc..). As Muslims we are opposed to this, which is why it's dangerous to completely embrace the policy platforms of major western political parties. You can agree with some issues, but inevitably there will be areas in which they are on the wrong side. This is why our Maraja recommend that we not focus on national-level politics in Western countries, but focus more at the local level, where we can make more of a meaningful difference and not compromise our values.  

Having said all this, I still believe that the US democrats were definitely the lesser of two evils in this election cycle. The Republicans have completely gone off the cliff of rationality. Like I said before, they are the only major political party in the world to embrace the self-destruction of the human race as a formal policy (through their denial of climate change). The Republican base is lost in a delusional fantasy world, and they should not be in the position to lead the government. The world has changed, the west (more specifically white people) don't run the world anymore. We have moved into a multi-polar world, in which other powers such as China will set the agenda as well. I believe their spiral into delusion is an attempt to reclaim a lost dominance, a time when the world "made sense" to them. But there is no going back, the change has come. But it's clear that they will not go quietly. To quote the poet W.H Auden  "We would rather be ruined than changed." 

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2 hours ago, Guest Mullah_Sadra said:

If you look at my previous posts, you will see that I haven't advocated for the Democrats (Just as I acknowledge you haven't advocated for Republicans and Trumpists). My original inquiry was how could a Muslim American justify voting for Trump (especially in 2020)?

If your position is what you claim then your question should have been how could a Muslim American justify voting, full stop, since the democrat is equally as corrupt as the republican.

2 hours ago, Guest Mullah_Sadra said:

Like I said before, they are the only major political party in the world to embrace the self-destruction of the human race as a formal policy (through their denial of climate change).

They are not alone, practically every left leaning western party today is embracing the self destruction of the human race through LGBQT.

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1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

If your position is what you claim then your question should have been how could a Muslim American justify voting, full stop, since the democrat is equally as corrupt as the republican.

They are not alone, practically every left leaning western party today is embracing the self destruction of the human race through LGBQT.

At the end of the day, you vote your conscience. I have been eligible to vote for 4 election cycles. In 2008 I voted for Ralph Nader. In 2012 I didn't vote. In 2016 I voted for the Green Party candidate. In 2020 I voted for Biden, a Democrat for the first time in my life. I did this because I believe that Trump and his ilk are extremely dangerous and pose an existential threat to the US and the world. Biden and the Democrats are far from perfect, but I don't believe that Biden is deranged, erratic and living in an alternate reality of his own creation the way Trump and his minions are. We all have to answer to our creator for our actions (or lack of action) and I am aware that I will have to do that. If the brothers on this forum truly believe that voting for Trump in 2020 was a good thing to do (or if they don't believe in voting, then to morally support him), then they will have to answer for their actions as well. And Allah knows best. Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un. Masallamah brothers and sisters. 

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5 hours ago, Guest Mullah_Sadra said:

I did this because I believe that Trump and his ilk are extremely dangerous and pose an existential threat to the US and the world. Biden and the Democrats are far from perfect, but I don't believe that Biden is deranged, erratic and living in an alternate reality of his own creation the way Trump and his minions are.

I agree that he appears more mentally stable than Trump (most people do for that matter) but his policies are equally as damaging. His party has as much blood on their hands as the Republicans, and their pro abortion, pro LGBQT agenda will damage American society further.

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Quote

The Biden administration has imposed a temporary freeze on U.S. arms sales to Saudi Arabia and is scrutinizing purchases by the United Arab Emirates as it reviews billions of dollars in weapons transactions approved by former President Donald Trump, according to U.S. officials.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-freezes-u-s-arms-sales-to-saudi-arabia-uae-11611773191

@Silas @Northwest 

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  • 2 weeks later...
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This <38 minute video postulates Baden's challenges with Europe, Asia, China and momentarily the Mid-East.

Also, how domestic problems are affecting "America's ability to lead".

https://www.dw.com/en/special-program-bidens-america-too-damaged-to-lead/av-56604025 

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Baden kan't ad   :D

So yesterday, el-presidente Uncle Joe make a speech marking the 500k+ deaths from Covid-l9.

ln it he said, "more than WW2, WW1, and Vietnam.

Well, the KlA for these wars are 405,399 + 116,516 + 58,209 = 580,124.

And this guy presents our budget? You know, that 1.9 Trillion dollar monstrosity.

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