How do you know Islam is real

[Justsomeone]

Why do you think the school of thought you follow is real? Why are the rules you follow, real and not others?

[Justsomeone]

8 minutes ago, Justsomeone said:

Why do you think the school of thought you follow is real? Why are the rules you follow, real and not others?

Or in other words, what is Islam to you? And what about other religions?  What are they to you as a muslim

[guest 2025]

I believe that the truth sets you free and enlightens you. Based on the unique behavior of Muslims, I am convinced. The day I see atheists act like us will be the day my faith is shaken to its core.

[Justsomeone]

5 minutes ago, guest 2025 said:

I believe that the truth sets you free and enlightens you. Based on the unique behavior of Muslims, I am convinced. The day I see atheists act like us will be the day my faith is shaken to its core.

By enlightenment and freedom, do you talk about freedon from materialism?

In that case an atheist  an be spiritual and selfless and have even more live than us... it IS within the realm of possibilities...

So what exactly is the truth then?

[Dave follower of The Way]

21 hours ago, guest 2025 said:

I believe that the truth sets you free and enlightens you.

 

21 hours ago, Justsomeone said:

So what exactly is the truth then?

Hey Guest 2025 what an interesting comment - Jesus the Messiah said something like that. See the record of his sermon in John chapter 8

³¹ To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, ‘If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. ³² Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.’

Jesus the Messiah is saying in this quote that his teaching is truth and keeping his teaching is to know truth.

[guest 2025]

21 hours ago, Justsomeone said:

By enlightenment and freedom, do you talk about freedon from materialism?

In that case an atheist  an be spiritual and selfless and have even more live than us... it IS within the realm of possibilities...

So what exactly is the truth then?

Basically I mean manners/adab. Atheists are infamous for being arrogant, rude, ill mannered, miserable, smug, condescending. They truly do behave like a wretched people, and that to me is a testament to their falsehood. On the other hand, every pious man behaves like an angel on earth. That's why you don't see much atheists anymore. "Woah, hey, pal. Don't call me atheist, I'm an agnostic."

On what you said: Such an atheist is an exception, most of them are quite materialistic. With with a pious man, it's the expectation. Though I don't think this carries any weight because this would largely be due to a belief/disbelief in the afterlife. Manners are much more telling.  

I think you'll find this documentary to be interesting. The atheists were so obnoxious that they destroyed themselves, while the pious are so well mannered that they literally converted the whole of Indonesia to Islam. That to me is a proof of Islam.

Now you might think, "Well then why does that single out Islam? Aren't there other theistic religions?" I know Islam is the right spice for similar reasons, from an old comment of mine: 

"Other religions are impractical. An outstanding Buddhist or Hindu is a secluded monk that lives in a monastery or deep in the wilderness, an outstanding Muslim would be someone who's an integral part of their community. Helpful, useful, and eager to benefit those around him."

 

[Hassu93]

On 11/1/2020 at 3:25 PM, Justsomeone said:

Why do you think the school of thought you follow is real? Why are the rules you follow, real and not others?

I for example see other religions. The other Abrahamic religions are very much diluted. The rest are polytheists who make gods out of their own hands. 

[Justsomeone]

@guest 2025 @Hassu93

Let's not talk about God then, why do you think Quran is the book sent by God? Why do you think that the prophet is the prophet sent by God?

@Dave follower of The Way 

Same question for you about the bible and Jesus

[Justsomeone]

2 hours ago, guest 2025 said:

"Other religions are impractical. An outstanding Buddhist or Hindu is a secluded monk that lives in a monastery or deep in the wilderness, an outstanding Muslim would be someone who's an integral part of their community. Helpful, useful, and eager to benefit those around him."

 

That's your way of thinking... 

The fundamentals of Buddhism is having balance between spirituality and worldly gains (in my words).

Some people think that Islam is quite impractical in modern times...

So how do you believe in a prophet you've never met? How exactly can you prove Quran is the book sent by God?

 

[Justsomeone]

In a way, because of the nature of human beings it makes sense that a leader or a guide and a book is sent to them to guide them, bt why should it be Islam? Why is it prophet Muhammad then? 

Anyone could come with a bookand declare himself as the guide of humanity...

So, what makes someone the guide? How do you recognize it?

[guest 2025]

25 minutes ago, Justsomeone said:

That's your way of thinking... 

The fundamentals of Buddhism is having balance between spirituality and worldly gains (in my words).

Some people think that Islam is quite impractical in modern times...

So how do you believe in a prophet you've never met? How exactly can you prove Quran is the book sent by God?

 

Again, an outstanding cream of the crop buddhist is one who moves to the middle of a forest and meditates for 20 years. In Islam, you are meant to be an active and useful member of your society. In Islam you should get married, have kids, work, see people, do community service. If everyone followed the example of Islam, the world would be a better place, if everyone followed the example of buddhism, we'd go extinct in 1 or 2 generations.

Me having to meet someone to agree with them doesn't make sense to me. I can prove it's a book sent by God because, again, it's the only thing that works when you look at the practical affect. I see other religions like a car that drives normally up to 70mph, but explodes if you go any faster. 

 

[Justsomeone]

3 minutes ago, guest 2025 said:

Again, an outstanding cream of the crop buddhist is one who moves to the middle of a forest and meditates for 20 years. In Islam, you are meant to be an active and useful member of your society. In Islam you should get married, have kids, work, see people, do community service. If everyone followed the example of Islam, the world would be a better place, if everyone followed the example of buddhism, we'd go extinct in 1 or 2 generations.

 You're kinda wrong about Buddhism, it's actually very close to the teachings of Islam, but okay...

5 minutes ago, guest 2025 said:

Me having to meet someone to agree with them doesn't make sense to me. I can prove it's a book sent by God because, again, it's the only thing that works when you look at the practical affect. I see other religions like a car that drives normally up to 70mph, but explodes if you go any faster. 

 

Ok, so practicality is what makes a way of life true, fair enough.

But explain to what exactly is practical in it? And what isn't practical in Christianity or Judaism or Hinduism and so on..?

[guest 2025]

4 hours ago, Justsomeone said:

You're kinda wrong about Buddhism, it's actually very close to the teachings of Islam, but okay...

Not at all, their virtues are our harams and vice versa. I stress, again, this is a mo'min in the buddhist world:

Never got married or had kids, never worked a job, thinks his human nature is a wretched flame that must be suppressed 

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by guest 2025

[guest 2025]

Lives here, in a secluded and rural place away from any semblance of a normal society. How will he help people? Why is it that a buddhist has to go through such drastic and extreme measures while I can just go to the mosque across from my grocery store and get nearly everything I want? 

Meanwhile this is the Islamic model. It makes much more sense practically as humans. The men in this photo are encouraged by Islam to participate as much as possible in society, and in a positive way. They can take their religion as far as they want without ever feeling the need to move to a mountain, rather, that would be haram.

4 hours ago, Justsomeone said:

But explain to what exactly is practical in it? And what isn't practical in Christianity or Judaism or Hinduism and so on..?

By practical I mean it encourages you to behave in the way we're supposed to as humans. That is, reproduce, make a living, contribute something to society, play your role and fulfil your obligations. If religion was brought down on lions, the equivalent would be some of them not eating meat, not hunting, not reproducing, not doing what a lion is meant to do.

In hinduism you have the same issues, the mo'mins are those who live as monks in chastity and seclusion. 

In Christianity and Judaism, of course they are practical, they are truthful religions brought down from God. Though some Christians falsely think monasticism is noble. If we thought like them then no marji3 or sheikh would have a wife or have kids.

There are 3 ways to approach the dunya and human nature: You can dive into them headfirst and live like a pig and an ape, you can go far in the other end and deny your human nature and role in this world, and you can take the Islamic approach and meet these two extremes in the middle. That is the approach that will ensure you success in this world and the hereafter and the one in which a society can function, and exist at all

Edited November 3, 2020 by guest 2025

[Justsomeone]

4 hours ago, guest 2025 said:

Lives here, in a secluded and rural place away from any semblance of a normal society. How will he help people? Why is it that a buddhist has to go through such drastic and extreme measures while I can just go to the mosque across from my grocery store and get nearly everything I want? 

Meanwhile this is the Islamic model. It makes much more sense practically as humans. The men in this photo are encouraged by Islam to participate as much as possible in society, and in a positive way. They can take their religion as far as they want without ever feeling the need to move to a mountain, rather, that would be haram.

By practical I mean it encourages you to behave in the way we're supposed to as humans. That is, reproduce, make a living, contribute something to society, play your role and fulfil your obligations. If religion was brought down on lions, the equivalent would be some of them not eating meat, not hunting, not reproducing, not doing what a lion is meant to do.

In hinduism you have the same issues, the mo'mins are those who live as monks in chastity and seclusion. 

In Christianity and Judaism, of course they are practical, they are truthful religions brought down from God. Though some Christians falsely think monasticism is noble. If we thought like them then no marji3 or sheikh would have a wife or have kids.

There are 3 ways to approach the dunya and human nature: You can dive into them headfirst and live like a pig and an ape, you can go far in the other end and deny your human nature and role in this world, and you can take the Islamic approach and meet these two extremes in the middle. That is the approach that will ensure you success in this world and the hereafter and the one in which a society can function, and exist at all

I have a few doubts here:

1. Those Christians and Jews think that their religion is more practical than Islam. What do you say to that?

2. Some people say that Islam is not practical any more in the modern time. Let's say another person comes and says that I am a new prophet of God to guide you and brings a religion (or a way of life) that is more practical. What do you do then?

3. With regards to 2. What is practicality exactly? What makes a way of life practical amd what makes it as the true way of life?  Or is that subjective and different for everyone? 

4. What do you say to those who say that God has already given us morals in our nature and we're supposed to just live based on these?

[guest 2025]

Good questions!

46 minutes ago, Justsomeone said:

1. Those Christians and Jews think that their religion is more practical than Islam. What do you say to that?

Well today's Christians idealize monasticism so they're out, that leaves the Jews. As for them, they don't really "aim" for practicality, but more setting the stage for the Messiah. They're a nomadic people. Both groups don't really think about such a thing, unless they mean to argue that Islam is impractical, but not that their religion is

 

59 minutes ago, Justsomeone said:

2. Some people say that Islam is not practical any more in the modern time. Let's say another person comes and says that I am a new prophet of God to guide you and brings a religion (or a way of life) that is more practical. What do you do then?

The people who say this usually then present the western way, "the modern way" as the best approach to a society as opposed to the Islamic model. To them I would say that by the look of things, your society is crumbling from the inside out so I really question if you have the right to speak about us that way. Everyone is miserable, distant, divided, unhealthy, has a mental illness of some sort, poor are getting poorer while rich are getting richer, more homes than homeless people, a lack of integrity from corporations/governments, etc. This model has only been around for about 60 years and is is clearly not going to last very long, it's simply not a sustainable model. Meanwhile, Islamic societies have been around for 1400+ years, and we only fall when a hostile (often foreign) force brings us down. Our way actually works, they can't say that

I'd look at what he says and see if it makes sense. The dajjal will come and make a similar claim, and he will perform miracles on top of that. So I'd be very wary and scrutinize every single thing he does and says

1 hour ago, Justsomeone said:

3. With regards to 2. What is practicality exactly? What makes a way of life practical amd what makes it as the true way of life?  Or is that subjective and different for everyone? 

I should be more specific. I mean it works in a practical sense. As in, I don't just agree with this as an idea, it works in real life, in practice.

It should be considerate of our nature as humans, organisms, creatures, beings. As beings with animal bodies, we reproduce, form societies, interact with others, have social roles, obligations, emotions, an intellect, etc. What I appreciate about Islam is that it functions as a guide on how we should approach all these things, while other religions neglect this crucial aspect. In Islam you are taught to find a mate, reproduce, speak to X person in X particular way, treat others in this way, handle your emotions in that way. It is completely mindful and considerate of us as human beings.

I don't think it's subjective, not at all. All lion societies are meant to live and behave in one way. They should hunt, eat meat, reproduce, raise cubs, establish a hierarchy. If there is any deviation then the society would either remain in a low and primitive state (indigenous tribes), or it would implode on itself

1 hour ago, Justsomeone said:

4. What do you say to those who say that God has already given us morals in our nature and we're supposed to just live based on these?

I'd tell them to look at secular countries like france and tell me if they've got it figured out. It's too early to have that discussion, let's see what models still stand in 1000, 2000, 10000, years. Though I have no reason to believe that anything people pit against us will make it out the 21st century

[313_Waiter]

Many posts for this on the site. See some of mine and other siblings’ posts here:

From Ibn Al Hussein (a talib al ilm):

 

Quote

Metaphysical

1. Acknowledging the existence of apriori knowledge and self-evident principles, such as: I exist, law of non-contradiction, law of identity, law of excluded middle

2. Acknowledging certain tools for knowledge, understanding their relationship and giving them priority as follow: Knowledge by Presence, Intellect, Senses etc.

3. Determining one's moral philosophy - objective, subjective, intuitive etc.

4. Establishing the need to even investigation into religion (Wujub al-Nazar fi al-Din) I.e. Pascal's wager - conclusion directly dependent on one's moral philosophy

5. Proving the existence of a Necessary Existence (various arguments exist)

6. Discuss existential qualities of a necessary existence: Most important to prove oneness; a necessary existence cannot depend on another existence for its existence, it cannot be a composite

7. Proof of oneness of God: a. Argument of composition (tarkeeb), or b. Argument of Kamaal Mutlaq (primarily a philosophical argument)

8. Prove that there is a purpose in life and necessity of sending a Prophet

Textual

1. Rule out majority of religions, particularly Eastern religions, because they are theologically incompatible with what was proven concerning the necessary existence, specifically oneness of God

2. Other religions/cults can be easily ruled out, mostly through further theological development

3. Abrahamic Tradition:

a. Perhaps most easily viable method would be to consider traditions prophesizing Islam, Prophet Mohammed (p) etc.

b. For example, this thread is very beneficial

c. Chronology + reports of miracles carried out by Prophet: Would require the development of a methodology to criticize chains of reports as someone from the outside looking in, or some historiographical methodology when analyzing the Islamic historical + hadith corpus

d. Miraculous nature of the Qur'an: This is the least viable method for the majority of people. Also requires one to look into discussions of collection of the Qur'an, Qira'at of Qur'an and Tahreef al-Qur'an

4. Islam: Sunnite vs Shiite

a. Multiplicity of narrations present in both corpuses for Imam 'Ali (a)

5. Shi'ism: Rebut Kaysaniyyah, Zaidiyyah, Waqiffiyah, Isma'iliyyah, the mystery of the 12th Imam etc.

Wasalam

I would also add to his list the actual prophecies that the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) made: https://youtu.be/rCMgwwDkFxE

(also read Forbidden Prophecies if you want to get into this — they are Sunni narrations though).

 

 

[eThErEaL]

11 hours ago, guest 2025 said:

Not at all, their virtues are our harams and vice versa. I stress, again, this is a mo'min in the buddhist world:

Never got married or had kids, never worked a job, thinks his human nature is a wretched flame that must be suppressed 

 

 You obviously don’t know anything about Buddhism.  
 

[hasanhh]

 

On 11/1/2020 at 4:55 AM, Justsomeone said:

Why do you think the school of thought you follow is real? 

lsIam is a belief system (as academically defines).  "lsIamic Philosophy" is a school of thought.

17 hours ago, Justsomeone said:

 

Let's not talk about God then, why do you think Quran is the book sent by God? Why do you think that the prophet is the prophet sent by God?

1] Quran is not the only Book. lbrahim -(عليه السلام). had a book; Musa -(عليه السلام). had a book; Dawud -(عليه السلام). had the Psalm; and Isa -(عليه السلام). had the lnjeel.

2] Muhammad -(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).s. is the last nabi. Not the first or second or . . .

[guest 2025]

9 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

 You obviously don’t know anything about Buddhism.  
 

He casts the bait, then waits and sees if it will get a bite. Unfortunately for ethereal, guest 2025 already had lunch and wasn't hungry.

[Justsomeone]

12 hours ago, hasanhh said:

lsIam is a belief system (as academically defines).  "lsIamic Philosophy" is a school of thought.

Then what I mean is, why do you think your belief system is the real one?

 

12 hours ago, hasanhh said:

1] Quran is not the only Book. lbrahim -(عليه السلام). had a book; Musa -(عليه السلام). had a book; Dawud -(عليه السلام). had the Psalm; and Isa -(عليه السلام). had the lnjeel.

2] Muhammad -(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).s. is the last nabi. Not the first or second or . . .

1. I am aware, but thise that follow Christianity for example, don't believe that prophet Muhammad was a real prophet. So what makes you think he was?

2. Yes, muslims say that he is last to bring a message because he brought it in its entirety. How do you it's really in its entirety?

 

[Justsomeone]

19 hours ago, guest 2025 said:

Well today's Christians idealize monasticism so they're out, that leaves the Jews. As for them, they don't really "aim" for practicality, but more setting the stage for the Messiah. They're a nomadic people. Both groups don't really think about such a thing, unless they mean to argue that Islam is impractical, but not that their religion is

I've heard some types of Christians don't practice monasticism. What about them?

 

19 hours ago, guest 2025 said:

I'd tell them to look at secular countries like france and tell me if they've got it figured out. It's too early to have that discussion, let's see what models still stand in 1000, 2000, 10000, years. Though I have no reason to believe that anything people pit against us will make it out the 21st century

They say that we're supposed to figure it out on our own by making and repairing mistakes....

[Justsomeone]

14 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

 You obviously don’t know anything about Buddhism.  
 

@eThErEaL come on... I expected  you to write more in this thread... I want to know your opinion. 

[hasanhh]

52 minutes ago, Justsomeone said:

So what makes you think he was?

S.C has discussed the predictability of Qur'an before.

Example: see THHuxley at https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234915641-quran-and-science/

 

 

[guest 2025]

2 hours ago, Justsomeone said:

I've heard some types of Christians don't practice monasticism. What about them?

They don't practice it, but that's the ideal if they wanted to take things to the ultimate level. If you mean that there are Christian sects who condemn monasticism, then truth is with them, but we're better because they don't have fiqh like we do

2 hours ago, Justsomeone said:

They say that we're supposed to figure it out on our own by making and repairing mistakes....

Until we see it works, their words don't hold much gravity. The experiment is still ongoing as far as I'm concerned and I have no reason to believe things will work out for them with this haphazard model

[313_Waiter]

@guest 2025 @eThErEaL

Thoughts :

https://www.scribd.com/doc/207936286/Buddha-in-the-Quran-by-Sh-Hamza-Yusuf-pdf

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by 313_Waiter

[313_Waiter]

Thoughts on this about Divine Truth in all religions?

 

 

[Justsomeone]

What do you guys think about Sikhism and the Baha'i faith which came after Islam...?

Both are monotheistic faiths. 

For Sikhs, it seems Guru Nanak was given divine wisdom... so he was some kind of prophet(?) I don't know much honestly about how it came to be tho... let's say they're divine guides instead of prophets per se... Muslims would most likely reject it.

The reason of that would be because we have already established guides until the end of times (for shias) and some of their practices go against Islam.

So how would we consider them?

Edited November 4, 2020 by Justsomeone

[Dave follower of The Way]

On 11/2/2020 at 8:00 PM, Justsomeone said:

@guest 2025 @Hassu93

Let's not talk about God then, why do you think Quran is the book sent by God? Why do you think that the prophet is the prophet sent by God?

@Dave follower of The Way 

Same question for you about the bible and Jesus

Thanks for this question.

The answer could be quite detailed and complex but I'll give a more general answer.

There is enough evidence to point to the reliability and trustworthiness of the text of the Bible. Also the historisity of the events recorded has been attested.  The internal consitency of the text of the Old and New Testament which were writen by many authors over a period of more than 1500 years show how God's hand has been inspiring and directing the writing of the different acounts.

Ultimatly though as I read the Bible and put its teaching into practice, I find it rings true and makes a difference to my life and realtionships.

The fact that God is at work in my life and I sense his voice, his inspiriation, his direction, his challenge and his discapline confirm to me that trusting in Jesus the Messiah as the Bible directs is true.

Each day I experience God's love, the friendship of the Lord Jesus and the transformation of the Holy Spirit. I find encouragement through reading the BIble and waiting in God's presence.

Much of what I say shows that there is an important degree of faith necessary, but any experience of God will depend on faith.  The great thing is that as I put my faith into practice the reality of what is writen is shown to be true.

[Justsomeone]

8 hours ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

Thanks for this question.

The answer could be quite detailed and complex but I'll give a more general answer.

There is enough evidence to point to the reliability and trustworthiness of the text of the Bible. Also the historisity of the events recorded has been attested.  The internal consitency of the text of the Old and New Testament which were writen by many authors over a period of more than 1500 years show how God's hand has been inspiring and directing the writing of the different acounts.

Ultimatly though as I read the Bible and put its teaching into practice, I find it rings true and makes a difference to my life and realtionships.

The fact that God is at work in my life and I sense his voice, his inspiriation, his direction, his challenge and his discapline confirm to me that trusting in Jesus the Messiah as the Bible directs is true.

Each day I experience God's love, the friendship of the Lord Jesus and the transformation of the Holy Spirit. I find encouragement through reading the BIble and waiting in God's presence.

Much of what I say shows that there is an important degree of faith necessary, but any experience of God will depend on faith.  The great thing is that as I put my faith into practice the reality of what is writen is shown to be true.

Thank you for your answer. It's very wholesome!

Though I have a question:

Muslims claim that Islam came after Christianity as its continuation... so why do you not accept it? Or in other words, what do you find more pure about Christianity compared to Islam?

I don't mean to convert you or anyhing, just curious...

[guest 2025]

On 11/4/2020 at 10:52 AM, Justsomeone said:

What do you guys think about Sikhism and the Baha'i faith which came after Islam...?

Unfortunately I know next to nothing about these two religions so I can't comment

[hasanhh]

10 minutes ago, guest 2025 said:

Unfortunately I know next to nothing about these two religions so I can't comment

l disapprove of both.

[Justsomeone]

1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

l disapprove of both.

Why so?

[eThErEaL]

On 11/4/2020 at 10:52 AM, Justsomeone said:

What do you guys think about Sikhism and the Baha'i faith which came after Islam...?

Both are monotheistic faiths. 

For Sikhs, it seems Guru Nanak was given divine wisdom... so he was some kind of prophet(?) I don't know much honestly about how it came to be tho... let's say they're divine guides instead of prophets per se... Muslims would most likely reject it.

The reason of that would be because we have already established guides until the end of times (for shias) and some of their practices go against Islam.

So how would we consider them?

I would take Nasr’s view on this:

Sikhism - Valid

Bahaism - man made.
 

 

[Justsomeone]

6 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

I would take Nasr’s view on this:

Sikhism - Valid

Bahaism - man made.
 

 

Thought so...

But what do you say about the difference in practices of Sikhism compared to Islam...

For example: they don't eat meat, they don't believe in the practice of fasting (actually, it seems they don't believe in rituals either. Is it true?)