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In the Name of God بسم الله

Be kind to non-hijabis and ex-hijabis

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Guest Call me P

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Guest Call me P

Salam, I have a wish and a message to all muslim men and women. I’ve lately experienced and witnessed LOADS of hate towards sisters who are not wearing hijab (head covering) for whatever reason. Especially those who are ex-hijabis. I think everyone need to stop making their own arrogance in religious “knowledge” overshadow them with “better-knowing-attitudes” and belittling people who doesn’t doesn’t live up to THEIR standard of belif. Some people don’t believe in the head covering of women. Don't they have their right to? Why are they less muslim than you? And in general why are women's clothing targeted so harshly in our muslim community? Religion is something to and might be something completely different to me. Even though we pray to the same God!

We live in 2020 and we need to step up our game when it comes to tolerance and respect towards peoples belief, ESPECIALLY within our own religion. Most people have zero tolerance when people differ in their religious interpretations and religious acts which is so sad to see. We need to be more tolerant and patient to also to better encourage our youth and live up to real islamic core values!

Let’s spread love, for we are all here for a short time so why be cruel to each other. Your judgmental behavior towards that hijabless sister might cost you a lot of hassanat.

peace!

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On 10/30/2020 at 6:11 PM, Guest Call me P said:

Let’s spread love, for we are all here for a short time so why be cruel to each other.

Salam. Those who believe in hijab do not hate women who don't wear hijab. They feel sad that they cannot convince stubborn people to follow the teachings of the Holy Prophet SA and the guidance of the Ahlul Bayt AS. (The wives and daughter of the Prophet SA and the wives and daughters of the Imams AS wore hijab.)

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6 minutes ago, Hameedeh said:

Salam. Those who believe in hijab do not hate women who don't wear hijab. They feel sad that they cannot convince stubborn people to follow the teachings of the Holy Prophet SA and the guidance of the Ahlul Bayt AS. (The wives and daughter of the Prophet SA and the wives and daughters of the Imams AS wore hijab.)

Another thing is so many non hijabi girls judge hijabis. Like as if the hijab puts a bubble around you and stops you from Sin. Oh look at that girl she wears a hijab but does this and that. 
 

also so many non hijabis make any excuse like show me where in the Quran does it say to wear a hijab and when proven they’ll say it was worn because it was hit back then lol what a dumb excuse. But of coarse no one should judge and one should be patient and treat all people with respect.

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A few things I've heard about hijab: there is hijab for men (but it is almost never talked about) and hijab for women started as a way to prevent non-"noble"/rich women from being sexually assaulted in cities after dark (iirc; slaves and poor women didn't wear veils or something, so bandits would see unveiled women as prime targets for horrible crimes. Prophet Muhammad (عليه السلام) then decided that to prevent this from occurring, that all Muslim women should veil themselves so the bandits didn't know who was a "noble"/rich woman and who was a slave/poor). I don't know if I am correct about this, but it is what I heard.

Furthermore, I didn't know that there were Muslim women who didn't wear hijab. I thought that was a non-negotiable thing & that a woman who doesn't wear hijab isn't in fact a Muslim. Not really sure what hijab for men is, but I think it has to do with not looking at women or something.

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3 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

The first group is more deserving of mercy vs the second group. IMHO. 

Wrong on so many levels! Moral, islamic and all other humanitarian levels. Why would this ex hijabi person be a part of a community that thinks she doesn’t deserve any mercy because she doesn’t believe in the headveil just like some people doesn’t believe in various parts of islam the way others does (shia-sunni issues, mutah etc). This woman wore it when she was 9 hated it all her life and then wanted to take it off because she doesn’t want to wear it anymore. She doesn’t see it necessary, she might have a sickness or she wants to protect herself from hate. And we should punish her by giving her a hard time? How does this make sense? We are not Allah we should not punish. Leave women's clothing alone.

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Bismillah i Rahman i Raheem

Salamun 'Aleiykum

 

I agree that there is a limit and method to go about the enjoining of good, al-amr bi-l-maʿrūf, and forbidding wrong, nahy ʿani-l-munkar. However, these are amongst the ancillaries of religion, and cannot be ignored in one's nafs, smaller circle, larger circle, anywhere.

I'd like to add two videos here that I watched recently that relate to this topic.

 

JazakAllah

'Aleiykum Assalam

Edited by Muntazir e Mahdi
Clarity of Bismillah.
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1 hour ago, notme said:

Being kind to everyone would be a better approach. 

 "Black lives matter" vs "All lives matter"

Well all lives matter, but it's black people we are protesting for to have equal rights. The same goes for this. 

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6 hours ago, Muntazir e Mahdi said:

relate to this topic.

I don't even need to watch these videos. This post is not about explaining hijab. It's about people who doesn't feel like wearing it for millions of reasons. We need to step up and become more tolerant and accepting of women who have taken off the veil (especially those) and women who never wore it in the first place. People need to be tolerant so that our youth doesn't feel the need to rely on the non-muslims to free them from their 'evil-cult' community. Believe me when I say that thousands of young girls (and boys for other reasons) are trapped in help-centers because of melt-downs they get from taking off their hijab or can't take it off because they feel trapped between honor and their own free will to chose. Many clerics says it's obligatory for the father to force their daughters to wear it. This should really be considered again for its very negative impact it has on these girls. Nothing should be forced really.

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Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) said:

"And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms...."

[24:31]

That is it, not open for interpretation, that's all there is to say. 

Each to their own though. Just as long as you don't claim that the above Quranic verse doesn't tell women to wear hijab when in fact it is incumbent on them, Allah himself said so.

Edited by Vindemiatrix
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3 hours ago, Guest Call me P said:

We need to step up and become more tolerant and accepting of women who have taken off the veil

No. 

3 hours ago, Guest Call me P said:

Believe me when I say that thousands of young girls (and boys for other reasons) are trapped in help-centers because of melt-downs they get from taking off their hijab

Bring some statistics.

3 hours ago, Guest Call me P said:

Nothing should be forced really.

What about brushing teeth? Or wearing clothes?  

If my son wants to go naked to school today should I let him? Because nothing should be forced, right?

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The Hijab is a perfect example that shows that Islam is not 'Sexist'. The Hijab was made for the people who understand it. Its was made to protect the woman from harsh things like insults. How can someone insult what a woman looks like when she wears the Hijab?

The people who wear the Hijab knowing its purpose are the people who love the Hijab.

Women are like flower. They should be treated gently, kindly, and with affection. -Imam Ali (AS)

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11 hours ago, Guest Call me P said:

I don't even need to watch these videos. This post is not about explaining hijab. It's about people who doesn't feel like wearing it for millions of reasons. We need to step up and become more tolerant and accepting of women who have taken off the veil (especially those) and women who never wore it in the first place. People need to be tolerant so that our youth doesn't feel the need to rely on the non-muslims to free them from their 'evil-cult' community. Believe me when I say that thousands of young girls (and boys for other reasons) are trapped in help-centers because of melt-downs they get from taking off their hijab or can't take it off because they feel trapped between honor and their own free will to chose. Many clerics says it's obligatory for the father to force their daughters to wear it. This should really be considered again for its very negative impact it has on these girls. Nothing should be forced really.

Fair play, but I linked the video to provide context to the importance of Hijab, which is what leads people to wish for it to be practiced.

Secondly, I disagree. Islam is about control as well. Often times, especially in teenage years, individuals wish to transgress its bounds but should not do so, even if the world around them does so. If humans are to act on every wish or norm, then more often than not they will end up doing something that shouldn't be done. Surely, Hijab is not easy, I will never be able to fully understand how difficult it is for women, but it is part of the faith and should be respected.

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the originator of everything, including 'Adl. It is He who is the source of all criteria to determine what is right and what is wrong, and it is He who knows best. Human criteria are placed below his decree, therefore no matter what the world does, His word must be upheld first and foremost. What we might think is better for us might be worse.

 

But, should one be harsh to a believer? Of course not. People are to be faithful through education and reasoning, not indoctrination.

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13 hours ago, Vindemiatrix said:

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) said:

"And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms...."

[24:31]

That is it, not open for interpretation, that's all there is to say. 

Each to their own though. Just as long as you don't claim that the above Quranic verse doesn't tell women to wear hijab when in fact it is incumbent on them, Allah himself said so.

The word used is 'Khimar'. Khimar means head covering in the Arabic language. People who are familiar with the Arabic language know exactly what this means. It is one of the most often ignored verses in the Holy Quran (by non hijabis), but it is still there. This is the video explaining 24:31. I have posted this video many times

 

There are many things in the Quran that are open to interpretation, but this is not one of them. The fact that many muslim women don't pay attention to the Quran when it comes to hijab doesn't mean it isn't a clear issue. Also, for Shia women, there are many, many hadiths that further clarify the concept about what is wajib to cover, what is mustahab to cover, etc. There is a hijab for men also, but I haven't seen it to be a huge problem, with men not observing the hijab that is wajib for them. It does happen, though. 

Also, let me clarify again, I am not saying to be mean or rude to non hijabis or ex hijabis. But we should continue to challenge the idea that, for muslim women, the hijab is optional, and they can 'interpret' this concept in any way they wish. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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Wearing hijab or not is a complex issue. It’s a dress-code that doesn’t seem rooted in fairness, logic, nor can people bring any true substantial claims on why women should wear it. It also seems like many people are choosing to ignore and minimize the negative effects of hijab in favor of it. I firmly believe that Allah didn’t send Islam, or gave us a religion to follow, in order make life miserable or hard to the extent that your life will be in danger at any given moment based on a rigid dress code. He sent Islam to enhance our lives, be a good person, and to worship him. Not feeling like we are stared at, or putting our religion on display.

I’ve heard so many things from:

1. Women are a precious jewel that need to be covered (wear hijab)
- Well, why? We are human beings, not pieces of jewelry. Any smart person would realize that modesty is necessary but comparing women to items such as meat, jewelry, etc., is inherently objectifying. 

2. The Christians, such as nuns, wear head covers and it’s stated in their book.

- Everyone says that the older books (Bible and Torah) have been tampered with, so using them as reference can’t be done if the sources are not complete, valid, or authentic. Some people like to use these sources when convenient.

Also, although nuns do cover-up, it is made clear in their religion that nuns and other women who don’t wear headscarves in particular are not considered sinful and that it is a choice, not a mandate.

3. Women need to wear hijab because they are more attractive and men can’t control themselves. 
- So what if women are attractive to men? Men are attractive to women just the same. It’s essentially blaming women because some men are idiots who were not raised right. It’s also an insult to men. Besides, how is hijab going to help men? It only creates a climate where men in that society become fearful/hateful of women and avoid all sense of responsibility, and try to control them. Women aren’t to blame if a man is being a sleaze, he’s to blame for being a sleaze. Just as women don’t tell men how to dress, men shouldn’t be telling women to wear hijab. 
 

But it also applies to the verse, “So they may be recognized and not harassed” there were prostitutes at the time who wore clothing (chests out) like them, so Allah ordered the believers to cover their chests to be distinguished from those women and not be harassed. 
 

4. The hijab “protects” women. 
This is so subjective and unreliable. In some cultures, hijab may protect you from harm because it’s adhering to cultural customs so that you don’t stand-out, but in most societies, hijab doesn’t protect women, quite the opposite. I don’t believe that Allah would mandate a particular rigid dress code specifically for one gender because just as women wore things on their head, so did men back then. It doesn’t make sense that men can wear modest clothing with the times and women can’t. When the ayah says, “cover a portion from their veils to cover the chest” — it’s because, 1. Women would naturally wear a lot of clothes/layers and they didn’t have tailored garments like today so they had to use the fabric they already wore to cover their exposed chest. And 2. Women left the chest completely bare because their clothes were incomplete or would expose them to help men win in battles, so Allah ordered to cover their chests. 3. The only garment long enough at the time was what they wore on their head, I think this was fairly obvious. It is clear that their clothes were insufficient at covering their chests and body. We already have clothes nowadays that cover the chest and the body and that’s the whole point.

4. My marja/sheikh/whoever says so.

- Not all scholars agree that 1. Hijab is mandatory and 2. That not wearing hijab makes a woman sinful. There are socio/political reasons in history why hijab became a mandate that have nothing to do with religion. And besides, sheikhs are fallible people, so use your brain. And again, who cares if the majority accepts something? Does that make it right? When has the majority ever always been right on controversial issues? Prayer is non-negotiable. Fasting is non-negotiable (unless health problems). Why? Because Allah has stated them directly. I don’t believe that Allah will allow humans to decipher between haram and halal nor should people make something that is deliberately vague into Haram or Halal. 
 

4. Hijab is a marker of Islam and Muslim women should represent the faith—once you wear hijab, other Muslims can spot you like you’re part of a club.

- What if I don’t want the whole world to know what my religion is? Who says I have to represent my faith? I have that right when I walk out to feel comfortable and blend-in in my environment, if I want to buy pizza or go shopping, that my religion isn’t on display. Show me in the Quran first where women are mandated to represent their religion/brand themselves, because hadith is 1. Not always reliable and prone to contradictions because it written by man. 2. Hadith is not above Quran. 3. The Quran is a complete book, and hadith is meant to be taken as supplementary/secondary texts and often is more figurative in nature. The point of covering up is to not draw attention to yourself, and hijab contradicts itself by drawing more attention to the woman who wears it. I believe that Allah wouldn’t tell his creations to do something contradictory and not-universally applicable. Allah always says to not draw attention to yourself. 
 

5. The wives of the Prophets and the wives of the Imams did it. 
- it says in the Quran that 1. Prophets wives are not like other women so they need to adhere to things that other women wouldn’t. 2. The barrier verse was for the Prophet’s wives (a screen between them and people) so that people would respect the Prophets wives and the Prophet’s house and not enter without permission. Basically, respecting the privacy of one’s home.

There are countless statements I’ve probably missed, but here’s the gist of it.

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16 hours ago, Guest Call me P said:

 "Black lives matter" vs "All lives matter"

Well all lives matter, but it's black people we are protesting for to have equal rights. The same goes for this. 

But people are black or not black. Wearing or not wearing hijab is a choice. We should be kind to people who fornicate. We should be kind to people who drink alcohol. We should be kind to people who disbelieve. But being kind does not equal considering them sinless. I propose that those who are sinners need kindness more than those who are not. 

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16 hours ago, Vindemiatrix said:

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) said:

"And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms...."

[24:31]

That is it, not open for interpretation, that's all there is to say. 

Each to their own though. Just as long as you don't claim that the above Quranic verse doesn't tell women to wear hijab when in fact it is incumbent on them, Allah himself said so.

No. Just no. Khimar means ‘cover’ and comes from khamr which is used for alchohol - something that clouds the brain, not head cover. Even if it did mean headcover Allah doesn’t say cover your hair with a khimar but bossom (opening) with a khimar. So no, it can be interpreted in many ways.  It’s so political and cultural that I could cry from how obvious it is. Other people are allowed to think and have their own interpretations of this as well. No priesthood in islam. No?

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5 hours ago, Muntazir e Mahdi said:

 

But, should one be harsh to a believer? Of course not. People are to be faithful through education and reasoning, not indoctrination.

I so agree with you. This is why I posted this. And for this reason people should be tolerant to each other despite our differences.

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@starlight

Seriously bad argumentation. Why should we not be more tolerant? Why “no.”? Maybe you don’t live in the west and if you do how would you want people to treat you with respect and tolerate your existence although you differ from them in looks and belief but you can’t accept someone who are from the same religion as you that sees the world with a different perspective? People are not the same. Learn from our Prophet and his kindness. If we all do we will become a better and stronger umah. Unfortunately young people refuse to be a part of islam because of cruelty and force. Let’s speak with love and affection and lead ourselves and our youth in the direction of true islam and not just the highly superficial one that focus on the appearance.

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22 minutes ago, Guest Call me P said:

Why should we not be more tolerant?

Tolerant towards unislamic practices? Why is that even a question? What's next? Tolerance for homosexuality? Alcohol? 

You didn't reply to the other two things I asked in my post. Waiting.

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The hijab is not just a head covering its also the clothes that a woman wears. For me the hijab is something to prize and appreciate.

But wearing the hijab is a order from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). I have friends who don't wear a hijab and I think its ok I don't judge them. but when it comes to family I become very upset. I take the hijab and its purpose VERY seriously.

:bismillah:

Quran 33:59

Sahih International: O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

https://quran.com/33/59

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4 hours ago, ServantOfTheHousehold said:

to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments

Yes, an outer garment is not a headpiece. Modesty is obviously stated in the Quran. Covering the hair? Nowhere to be found. Still people insist wholeheartedly that it’s mandatory because they see it most fitting in their cultural environment. Nobody is critical of anything anymore. Clerics states Q&A’s on their websites but doesn't bother to elaborate.
Why and on what premises is it ok for fathers to keep their daughters locked up if they refuse to veil their hair? Maybe this doesn’t bother you because you have boys or your daughter doesn’t refuse to wear a veil but what about those who doesn’t want to? Their fathers have gotten a green light to lock up their daughters in their home and attack then mentally until they wear the veil. (Source: Sistani) 

Not islamic and men who doesn’t question anything will also be ignorant enough to actually lock their daughters up because they will think they will go to hell and that they’re doing them a favor. They follow what has been said by a man who studied islam but won’t follow islam

itself. Because it isn’t islam, yet nobody put any question mark to this sick way of proposing things. This way of thinking might work in Iraq or Iran (not that it legitimates it) but it is not universal and especially not in the west where people escape from their muslim homes when treated like this. 

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1 hour ago, Guest Faithful said:

Yes, an outer garment is not a headpiece. Modesty is obviously stated in the Quran.

Just a question. How many Rakats wajib do you pray in fajr?

And I am still waiting for you answer the two questions I asked earlier. Why are you not replying to those?

On 11/2/2020 at 6:50 AM, starlight said:

 

Bring some statistics.

What about brushing teeth? Or wearing clothes?  

If my son wants to go naked to school today should I let him? Because nothing should be forced, right?

Here^^

You can't just make post after post calling your opinions as facts. 

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1 hour ago, Guest Faithful said:

Their fathers have gotten a green light to lock up their daughters in their home and attack then mentally until they wear the veil. (Source: Sistani) 

Post the link to this please.

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1 hour ago, starlight said:

ust a question. How many Rakats wajib do you pray in fajr?

 

I’m not the OP, but I just want to point out that prayer is clearly established as mandatory because Allah says so in the Quran in clear terms that prayer should be done by all Muslims. Therefore, the hadith on how many Rakats to pray would be applicable. But modesty isn’t directly defined as hijab in the Quran: it’s elusive. It says to cover the chest, so the hadith wouldn’t be applicable. 

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3 hours ago, starlight said:

Just a question. How many Rakats wajib do you pray in fajr?

And I am still waiting for you answer the two questions I asked earlier. Why are you not replying to those?

Here^^

You can't just make post after post calling your opinions as facts. 

Because of your attitude. Do your own research. 

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28 minutes ago, starlight said:

hahahaha.... Is that what you say when you don't have any proof to back up your arguments?

Maybe the OP will bring proof once you’ve stopped saying that hijab is mandatory because sheikhs/contradictory hadiths say so. Because as far as I’m concerned, you cling to rulings because you can’t even bring real proof or evidence from the Quran that clearly states, “Women must wear hijab”. I’m sure the OP feels the same way. No research, no critical thinking, no pointing out problematic rhetoric, just blind acceptance of what other people think. Which, again, can be wrong. There are rulings in the past made by Marjas that they deemed haram, such as ghusl in the shower, and now is permissible because they made mistakes. 

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I remember one of the sheikhs back in high school said this, With regards to Islam you have to take the whole package. For example, you pray but not wear hijab (this doesn't make sense). You can't let go of salaat but fast at the same time. If you're going to take Islam you take everything, not pick out the things that suit you and leave the rest. Clearly some people just don't understand the beauty behind hijab and the wisdom behind it (obviously I don't understand the whole wisdom behind but still) . I want to go on a huge rant right now but I know it isn't going to help because I don't see you're opinion will change anytime soon Guest Call Me P.

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On 10/30/2020 at 7:11 PM, Guest Call me P said:

Salam, I have a wish and a message to all muslim men and women. I’ve lately experienced and witnessed LOADS of hate towards sisters who are not wearing hijab (head covering) for whatever reason. Especially those who are ex-hijabis. I think everyone need to stop making their own arrogance in religious “knowledge” overshadow them with “better-knowing-attitudes” and belittling people who doesn’t doesn’t live up to THEIR standard of belif. Some people don’t believe in the head covering of women. Don't they have their right to? Why are they less muslim than you? And in general why are women's clothing targeted so harshly in our muslim community? Religion is something to and might be something completely different to me. Even though we pray to the same God!

We live in 2020 and we need to step up our game when it comes to tolerance and respect towards peoples belief, ESPECIALLY within our own religion. Most people have zero tolerance when people differ in their religious interpretations and religious acts which is so sad to see. We need to be more tolerant and patient to also to better encourage our youth and live up to real islamic core values!

Let’s spread love, for we are all here for a short time so why be cruel to each other. Your judgmental behavior towards that hijabless sister might cost you a lot of hassanat.

peace!

A lot of religious people worship their own ideologies instead of God Almighty.  They think they are worshipping God but they are worshipping their own beliefs and delusions.  They glorify themselves in identifying themselves with the label “Muslim” rather than actually being truly a Muslim by submitting And surrendering their perceived and separate identities to God Alone.

A Muhajaba in the West screams “I am a Muslim”.  It is an identity statement not only for her but for others who identify themselves as Muslims.  Of the Muhajaba decides to remove the Hijab for whatever reason she is perceived as sabotaging the Muslim Identity that is worshipped by many so called “Muslims”.   in fact it should not be of any concern to a real Muslim what someone else personally does does or does not do.  A Real Muslim should be leave aside matters that do not concern him.

And sometimes it can be the reverse: 
A woman that identifies herself as a Feminist Muslim (which is another god or idol that is worshipped) finds the Muhajaba as a threat to her identity when in fact all the Muhajaba intends is to simply follow what she truly believes to be the command from Her Lord. And So she wears the head cover, not for the sake of an identity but simply because she is trying her best to fulfill what she believes is God’s commandment. 
 

Edited by eThErEaL
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I think we need to attempt to provide the hikmah of sharia laws and rulings, so it is easier for youth to withstand the challenges being thrown are them from some feminists and islamophobes.

I believe there is a deep esoteric knowledge behind everything we do. In one of his lectures, Dr. Farrokh Sekaleshfar has said that the body is a manifestation of the soul, and he has related the covering of the body to covering the soul.

He has also explained the punishment of homosexual acts (with 4 witnesses) by explaining how a woman is a manifestation of the nurturing attributes of Allah, and that men and women complement one another in this sense.

Here he explains the esoteric dimensions of wudhu:

That being said, after we have accepted La ilaha illa Allah wa Muhammad ar Rasulullah there need not be a utilitarian justification for every jurisprudential rule, it’s just good to learn it.

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