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In the Name of God بسم الله

Were there other infallible Imams other than the 12 Imams?

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:salam:

So we technically have more than 12 Imams because Ibrahim (عليه السلام) is considered and Imam, the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is considered an Imam as well.

What about the earlier Prophets like the 12 apostles of Jesus ((عليه السلام)). Did all of the Prophets (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) have infallible successors?

 I don’t think Christians ever call the apostles infallible, though this verse says the covenant of Imamhood does not include the unjust:

Quote

And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam of men. Ibrahim said: And of my offspring? My covenant does not include the unjust, said He. (2:124)

Further, isn’t every peoples supposed to have an Imam (He who dies without knowing the Imam of his time has, indeed, died a death of ignorence [ie. disbelief]) or a guide (13:7)? Well, what about the people in the amazon who don’t know about Imam Mahdi? Or did everyone really get sent a guide. 

Edited by 313_Waiter
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4 hours ago, hasanhh said:

l'm Sunni, but your questions and statements are clearly outside the structure and precepts of the Shi'a.

Recommend some basic reading.

which book brother?

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Yes, you are right

The position of Imamah has so far based of my knowledge only been given to/achieved by Prophet Ibrahim(عليه السلام), The Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), and the 12 Imams(عليه السلام)

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30 minutes ago, MaisumAli said:

Yes, you are right

The position of Imamah has so far based of my knowledge only been given to/achieved by Prophet Ibrahim(عليه السلام), The Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), and the 12 Imams(عليه السلام)

Thanks brother. What about this?

14 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

Further, isn’t every peoples supposed to have an Imam (He who dies without knowing the Imam of his time has, indeed, died a death of ignorence [ie. disbelief]) or a guide (as per Quran verse 13:7)? Did everyone really get sent a guide? If not, what is meant by the Imam of the time/ guide for the people after Isa (عليه السلام) or Musa (عليه السلام) or Nuh (عليه السلام)?

 

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14 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

Or did everyone really get sent a guide. 

Quran 13:7

The disbelievers say, “If only a sign could be sent down to him from his Lord.” You ˹O Prophet˺ are only a warner. And for every people there is a Guide.

Quran 92:12

It is certainly upon Us ˹alone˺ to show ˹the way to˺ guidance.

Quran 16:36

And We certainly sent into every nation a messenger, [saying], "Worship Allah and avoid Taghut." And among them were those whom Allah guided, and among them were those upon whom error was [deservedly] decreed. So proceed through the earth and observe how was the end of the deniers.

 

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27 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Further, isn’t every peoples supposed to have an Imam (He who dies without knowing the Imam of his time has, indeed, died a death of ignorence [ie. disbelief]) or a guide (as per Quran verse 13:7)? Did everyone really get sent a guide? If not, what is meant by the Imam of the time/ guide for the people after Isa (عليه السلام) or Musa (عليه السلام) or Nuh (عليه السلام)?

 

Yes, the brother above did a really good job in bringing verses to answer the question

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There are more Infallibles, The Prophets (عليهم السلام) were all Infallible. Where is the proof? The proof is in the Quran.

:bismillah:

أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ هَدَى اللَّهُ ۖ فَبِهُدَاهُمُ اقْتَدِهْ ۗ قُل لَّا أَسْأَلُكُمْ عَلَيْهِ أَجْرًا ۖ إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا ذِكْرَىٰ لِلْعَالَمِينَ

 

These prophets were rightly guided by Allah, so follow their guidance. Say, “I ask no reward of you for this Quran—it is a reminder to the whole world.”

(6:90)

The Prophets were guided by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). If Allah DIRECTLY guides the Prophets, then were is there room for there to be the misguidance of sin?

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) also says,

:bismillah:

لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّن رُّسُلِهِ

“We make no distinction between any of His messengers.”

(2:285)

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and his Prophets make no distinctions with his Messengers. So how can we say that Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is Infallible while Isa and Ibrahim (عليهم السلام) aren't?

Hopefully this answers your question.

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8 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Quran 13:7

The disbelievers say, “If only a sign could be sent down to him from his Lord.” You ˹O Prophet˺ are only a warner. And for every people there is a Guide.

Imam Muhammad bin Ali al Baqir said acc to Tafsir Pooya that "the warner" means the Holy Prophet and "the guide" means Ali. So if this is the case, where is the evidence of the successors of other Prophets or those successors being infallible. 

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6 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

Imam Muhammad bin Ali al Baqir said acc to Tafsir Pooya that "the warner" means the Holy Prophet and "the guide" means Ali. So if this is the case, where is the evidence of the successors of other Prophets or those successors being infallible. 

Yes. 

That Tafseer of Verse is special for Ameer Ul Momineen (عليه السلام). There is no doubt in it. But generally, verse addresses "Every Nation" while this tafsser of ayah is also from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and specific for Ummah of Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

The guide (in-charge) right after the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was Ali (عليه السلام) and this hadith is a strong evidence for Imamah of Ali (عليه السلام), but generally this ayah says, for every people there is a guide. If Ali (عليه السلام) was a guide, then similarly we must have a guide today as per the ayah.

Since according to Quran 92:12, 

Quran 92:12

It is certainly upon Us ˹alone˺ to show ˹the way to˺ guidance.

and above ayah says for everyone there is a guide,

so its not possible that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) would break his promise and leave you without a guide today.

These ayahs also prove infallibility of the guide since guide would be the one through which Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) would guide people.

Since guiding people is upon Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), and he says for everyone there is a guide, so its impossible that such a guide would make errors. That would means Allah made a guide for guidance and then that guide misguided people. Then it would negate ayah 92:12

Thus the guide has to be someone who who shouldn't make errors while guiding the people since that would only be the case where 92:12 can be true.

this means that the guide for every nation has to be a Masoom.

Edited by Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi
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On 10/30/2020 at 6:04 AM, 313_Waiter said:

Well, what about the people in the amazon who don’t know about Imam Mahdi?

Salam every  deed of them will preserve  & they will judge by their intention  anyway maybe they have a definition  from savior of end times that maybe  matches with Iman Mahdi (aj).

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On 10/30/2020 at 12:10 PM, MaisumAli said:

Yes, you are right

The position of Imamah has so far based of my knowledge only been given to/achieved by Prophet Ibrahim(عليه السلام), The Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), and the 12 Imams(عليه السلام)

Ayat 32:24

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