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In the Name of God بسم الله

Who is the wrong when it comes to the situation in France??

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On October 16th, a French teacher by the name of Samuel Paty was murdered by a "Muslim" named Abdoullakh Abouyedovich Anzorov. The teacher was beheaded because he depicted prophet Mohamed (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Muslim students considered this disrespectful because paty also depicted him with nudity. Eventually a students father shared a video telling the public about his actions. He told them that he was a sinner that needed to be brought to justice. Then Paty was hunted down and slaughtered. But for WHAT?! Showing a cartoon?!? Yes depicting the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is very disrespectful. BUT WHY SLAUGHTER HIM?!? Abdoullakh Abouyedovich Anzorov is not Muslim. ISLAM LITERALLY MEANS TO SURRENDER PEACEFULLY!! ASALAMUALAIKUM LITTERALY MEANS "peace be upon you"!! Astaghfirullah. Why Kill him?? There are so many things the father could have done. he could have transferred his daughter to another school. BUT NOO HE HAD TO SHARE THE VIDEO. He had to help spread fear. Islam to a lot of people is seen as a religion of TERROR not peace! But France is also in the subject. Firstly, the teacher showing nudity in a friking MIDDLE SCHOOL!! WHAT THE HECK MAN Second not firing the teacher seriously bro use you brain. Thirdly, RELIGEON SEPERATION WTH Macron are you trying to get yourself KILLED!! WHY BRO WHY?!?!

So who is in the wrong?? Islam or France?? I look forward to you guy's answer

Wassalamalaikum warahmatullaah (Salam means peace!!)

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To submit to Allah! Not surrender to people! Can't comment about the issue. The news reaching us about the actual issue is very confusing and distorted but it was a series of wrong actions that l

My views might be wrong Isn't there a story where the prophet((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) treated a woman who throw garbage on him with respect ?? Shouldn't we follow his path than take law into o

One Muslim commits an ignorant terrible crime under a false Islamic pretense, and that means all innocent Muslims (the 99.9%) must collectively suffer its backlash and consequences? And Islam “is in c

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3 minutes ago, ServantOfTheHousehold said:

ISLAM LITERALLY MEANS TO SURRENDER PEACEFULLY!!

To submit to Allah! Not surrender to people!

Can't comment about the issue. The news reaching us about the actual issue is very confusing and distorted but it was a series of wrong actions that led to things as they are now. Showing disrespectful cartoons was wrong, murdering someone over this was worse and what Macron did was the worse of worst. This chain could have been stopped but no one has the good sense to do it.

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2 hours ago, ServantOfTheHousehold said:

On October 16th, a French teacher by the name of Samuel Paty was murdered by a "Muslim" named Abdoullakh Abouyedovich Anzorov. The teacher was beheaded because he depicted prophet Mohamed (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Muslim students considered this disrespectful because paty also depicted him with nudity. Eventually a students father shared a video telling the public about his actions. He told them that he was a sinner that needed to be brought to justice. Then Paty was hunted down and slaughtered. But for WHAT?! Showing a cartoon?!? Yes depicting the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is very disrespectful. BUT WHY SLAUGHTER HIM?!? Abdoullakh Abouyedovich Anzorov is not Muslim. ISLAM LITERALLY MEANS TO SURRENDER PEACEFULLY!! ASALAMUALAIKUM LITTERALY MEANS "peace be upon you"!! Astaghfirullah. Why Kill him?? There are so many things the father could have done. he could have transferred his daughter to another school. BUT NOO HE HAD TO SHARE THE VIDEO. He had to help spread fear. Islam to a lot of people is seen as a religion of TERROR not peace! But France is also in the subject. Firstly, the teacher showing nudity in a friking MIDDLE SCHOOL!! WHAT THE HECK MAN Second not firing the teacher seriously bro use you brain. Thirdly, RELIGEON SEPERATION WTH Macron are you trying to get yourself KILLED!! WHY BRO WHY?!?!

So who is in the wrong?? Islam or France?? I look forward to you guy's answer

Wassalamalaikum warahmatullaah (Salam means peace!!)

You are bringing up various issues, what are you talking about specifically?

If it is the behaviour of the state toward its Muslim citizens generally speaking then the state is in the wrong.

If you are talking about the incident with the teacher, I agree that some members of the community contributed to what happened and it was foolish and irresponsible to publicise it in the way that they did, and many of them are paying the price for it. The mosque that shared it on their website has been closed down and the father who shared it was arrested (although it was also because he had contact with the killer prior to the execution), the kids who informed on where the teacher could be found have also been arrested. It would be good if the police release more info so we can see exactly how complicit each of the parties are, but assuming they are all guilty, why should the wider community have to pay the price? Many of the people praising the killer on social media are from Pakistan, from what I've seen there isn't large scale support for what happened on French social media in the same way that there is on English language social media.

The French state is hypocritical because if anyone insults Judaism there are dealt with severely, so this has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

Edited by Ali_Hussain
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To French youth:

Imam Khamenei: Why Insulting to Prophet of God Permissible, But Doubting Holocaust a Crime?

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AhlulBayt News Agency (ABNA): Following recent flagrant insults to the Holy Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) in France, the strong support of the French President and the Cabinet of that country for these malicious actions under the guise of "freedom of expression," and also the role played by that government in spreading Islamophobia, Imam Khamenei, the Leader of the Islamic Revolution of Iran, has raised important questions in a message to the French youth.

Here is the full text of his message:

In His Name

Young French people!

Ask your President why he supports insulting God’s Messenger in the name of freedom of expression. Does freedom of expression mean insulting, especially a sacred personage? Isn’t this stupid act an insult to the reason of the people who elected him?

The next question to ask is: why is it a crime to raise doubts about the Holocaust? Why should anyone who writes about such doubts be imprisoned while insulting the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) is allowed?

Sayyid Ali Khamenei
October 28, 2020

https://en.abna24.com/news//imam-khamenei-why-is-insulting-the-prophet-of-islam-permissible-but-doubting-the-holocaust-is-a-crime_1081785.html

Pres. Rouhani: Insulting Prophet Muhammad, disrespect to entire human values

Quote

He said that world people can live together in peace when they respect each other.

It is not an art to disrespect a prophet, Rouhani said, adding that insulting a prophet is rather encouraging violence.

https://en.abna24.com/news//pres-rouhani-insulting-prophet-muhammad-disrespect-to-entire-human-values_1081598.html

Ayatollah Mojtahed Shabestari:

Muslims must sever ties with Paris if France not apologize

Quote

“In this regard, France has the most and deepest relations with the Zionists among European countries,” he said and added, “Western countries sometimes reveal their opposition and hostility to Islam, that the latest example of which was the insult of the French magazine Charlie Hebdo to the Prophet of Islam ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)).

Stressing that the root of such issues can be traced to anti-Islamism of the Zionist Regime, he said, “The French government has a wide connection with the Zionists Regime, who seize any opportunity to weaken the Islam status in international level.”

https://en.abna24.com/news//muslims-must-sever-ties-with-paris-if-france-not-apologize_1081569.html

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Protesters in West Bank burn French flag over Macron's nonsense against Isalam

https://en.abna24.com/news//protesters-in-west-bank-burn-french-flag-over-macrons-nonsense-against-

Photos: Huge Bangladesh rally calls for boycott of French after Macron's anti-Islam remarks

2ecb6a9aeecf268f6b29200b9c062936_360.jpg 96bb9484b37d97c3f42ca45069aa6386_644.jpg 41ef8f698490b001414eb60186ae6a28_210.jpg

https://en.abna24.com/news//photos-huge-bangladesh-rally-calls-for-boycott-of-french-after-macrons-anti-islam-remarks_1081516.html

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Iran's envoy to Pakistan:

Peshawar attack displays violent face of terrorism against Islam

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"It is the duty of every awakened conscience to condemn this violence," Hosseini said in a tweet post on Tuesday.

"Terrorist crime of martyring children learning the Holy Quran at a school in Peshawar shows the violent face of terrorism against Islam. Muslims are oppressed victims of terrorism in the world," the Iranian ambassador added.

https://en.abna24.com/news//peshawar-attack-displays-violent-face-of-terrorism-against-islam_1081535.html

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French insulting cartoons provocative to Islam, beliefs: Hamas

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“(French President Emmanuel) Macron’s encouragement to publish insulting cartoons of the Prophet (Muhammad), peace be upon him, is an attempt to revive the Crusades where France was the source of its debut,” Sami Abu Zuhri, senior spokesman for Hamas said recently, the Middle East Monitor reported.

Abu Zuhri said publishing the cartoons was “provocative to the feelings of the (Muslim) Nation and an aggression on its religion and beliefs.”

https://en.abna24.com/news//french-insulting-cartoons-provocative-to-islam-beliefs-hamas_1080969.html

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My views might be wrong

Isn't there a story where the prophet((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) treated a woman who throw garbage on him with respect ?? Shouldn't we follow his path than take law into our hands ?

I don't know how bad these cartoons have depicted our Prophet because I have not seen them but yep slaughtering someone for that doesn't really send a good message about Islam.  People are obviously going to be terrorised if people keep committing horrible murders in the name of Allah and the prophet 

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10 hours ago, starlight said:

To submit to Allah! Not surrender to people!

Can't comment about the issue. The news reaching us about the actual issue is very confusing and distorted but it was a series of wrong actions that led to things as they are now. Showing disrespectful cartoons was wrong, murdering someone over this was worse and what Macron did was the worse of worst. This chain could have been stopped but no one has the good sense to do it.

ok true but asalamualaikum still means "peace be upon you"

Islam is an Arabic word meaning "submission" and in the. religious context means "submission to the will of God". "Islam" is derived from the Arabic word "sal'm" which. literally means peace.

(that's from y google search btw)

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10 hours ago, starlight said:

Showing disrespectful cartoons was wrong, murdering someone over this was worse and what Macron did was the worse of worst.

yes i agree but right now the people are looking at us and saying we are at fault 

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8 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Imam Khamenei: Why Insulting to Prophet of God Permissible, But Doubting Holocaust a Crime?

Why did sayid khamenei compare different type of crimes together?

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51 minutes ago, ServantOfTheHousehold said:

ok true but asalamualaikum still means "peace be upon you"

Islam is an Arabic word meaning "submission" and in the. religious context means "submission to the will of God". "Islam" is derived from the Arabic word "sal'm" which. literally means peace.

(that's from y google search btw)

I was referring to the fact that Islam doesn't mean submission/surrender (or whatever word you wanna use) TO PEOPLE so it doesn't apply to surrendering to oppressive government or ignorant people of France.

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14 hours ago, ServantOfTheHousehold said:

On October 16th, a French teacher by the name of Samuel Paty was murdered by a "Muslim" named Abdoullakh Abouyedovich Anzorov. The teacher was beheaded because he depicted prophet Mohamed (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Muslim students considered this disrespectful because paty also depicted him with nudity. Eventually a students father shared a video telling the public about his actions. He told them that he was a sinner that needed to be brought to justice. Then Paty was hunted down and slaughtered. But for WHAT?! Showing a cartoon?!? Yes depicting the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is very disrespectful. BUT WHY SLAUGHTER HIM?!? Abdoullakh Abouyedovich Anzorov is not Muslim. ISLAM LITERALLY MEANS TO SURRENDER PEACEFULLY!! ASALAMUALAIKUM LITTERALY MEANS "peace be upon you"!! Astaghfirullah. Why Kill him?? There are so many things the father could have done. he could have transferred his daughter to another school. BUT NOO HE HAD TO SHARE THE VIDEO. He had to help spread fear. Islam to a lot of people is seen as a religion of TERROR not peace! But France is also in the subject. Firstly, the teacher showing nudity in a friking MIDDLE SCHOOL!! WHAT THE HECK MAN Second not firing the teacher seriously bro use you brain. Thirdly, RELIGEON SEPERATION WTH Macron are you trying to get yourself KILLED!! WHY BRO WHY?!?!

So who is in the wrong?? Islam or France?? I look forward to you guy's answer

Wassalamalaikum warahmatullaah (Salam means peace!!)

It sounds like Macron described Islam as a religion in crisis. 

There is a battle going on over what Islam is. And unfortunately, extremists, always speak louder than average Muslims. 

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Knife Attack in Nice, 3 Killed

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/29/knife-attack-in-nice-france-people-killed-church

If you look at this story on the Guardian's FB page, there are 44 laughing emoji reactions, 30 of them are Muslim names. Do people really think that that kind of behaviour is helpful? 

Edit: according to the attorney who is handling the case, the attacker wasn't even Muslim.

 

Edited by Ali_Hussain
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4 hours ago, iCenozoic said:

It sounds like Macron described Islam as a religion in crisis. 

There is a battle going on over what Islam is. And unfortunately, extremists, always speak louder than average Muslims. 

The people who blow up holy places and slaughter people are not Muslims. They are people who want to spread terror and blind the world. So that they only see a dark picture in Islam.

Wassalalm

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Everyone, everyone is in the wrong here. 

Terrorists are wrong (obviously). Macron is wrong for stoking further tensions rather than being a real leader. The French declaring Muslims the enemy, including those who stabbed to Muslim women at the Eiffel Tower just before today's attack. The media for giving coverage only when non-Muslims get killed/attacked. 

Everyone. 

This world is seriously sick.

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2 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

Knife Attack in Nice, 3 Killed

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/29/knife-attack-in-nice-france-people-killed-church

If you look at this story on the Guardian's FB page, there are 44 laughing emoji reactions, 30 of them are Muslim names. Do people really think that that kind of behaviour is helpful? 

Edit: according to the attorney who is handling the case, the attacker wasn't even Muslim.

 

Sorry wrong edit, different incident:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-terror-avignon-attack-stabbing-police-shooting-nice-today-b1420399.html

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12 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

The attacker said he was a member of Mouvance Identity, a post-WW2 far right group.

lMH0:  The Marcon Mouth is not helping to calm things.

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19 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

You are bringing up various issues, what are you talking about specifically?

If it is the behaviour of the state toward its Muslim citizens generally speaking then the state is in the wrong.

If you are talking about the incident with the teacher, I agree that some members of the community contributed to what happened and it was foolish and irresponsible to publicise it in the way that they did, and many of them are paying the price for it. The mosque that shared it on their website has been closed down and the father who shared it was arrested (although it was also because he had contact with the killer prior to the execution), the kids who informed on where the teacher could be found have also been arrested. It would be good if the police release more info so we can see exactly how complicit each of the parties are, but assuming they are all guilty, why should the wider community have to pay the price? Many of the people praising the killer on social media are from Pakistan, from what I've seen there isn't large scale support for what happened on French social media in the same way that there is on English language social media.

The French state is hypocritical because if anyone insults Judaism there are dealt with severely, so this has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

But in the end both are wrong because both did foolish things. Is it not foolish to kill someone over a cartoon? Is it not foolish to declare was to an entire RELIGION because 1 person decided he was going to be (and I hate saying this word) stupid and kill somebody even though a lot of the religion is innocent? Was it not foolish to not fire the teacher? Was it not foolish to depict nudity with the prophet IN A MIDDLE School? So right now everyone's hands are bloody. Figuratively and literally.

Wassalam

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Its all wrong of course but I am finding it harder and harder to feel sympathy for a people who are party to mass murder, mass poverty, mass hunger and bombings of school buses and hospitals of Muslims. When you hurt and insult someone so dearly it is natural and expected for there to be some reaction which sometimes can be fatal because not everyone is a complete slave to civilization. Our scholars forbid slandering the incomparably lesser personalities only so they don't feel hurt while one of the most evolved nations, so called, and a teacher of their of all people did not grasp that concept?

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I don't think this situation is going to help anyone. 3 brutal murders where committed by a Muslim man in a church.

 Muslim leaders around the world and media have only fueled more hate. I agree what the magazine did was terrible but what you guys are doing is give them more clout and give another reason for the Salafist to carry out a terror attack and make our religion look worse.

Sadly Every act of aggression proves Macron's words right.

Edited by Hassu93
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On 10/29/2020 at 8:36 PM, Hassu93 said:

I don't think this situation is going to help anyone. 3 brutal murders where committed by a Muslim man in a church.

 Muslim leaders around the world and media have only fueled more hate. I agree what the magazine did was terrible but what you guys are doing is give them more clout and give another reason for the Salafist to carry out a terror attack and make our religion look worse.

Sadly Every act of aggression proves Macron's words right.

Macrons words may be right but he is still in the wrong

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The situation in France is actually bad on both sides and no one is right.

The teacher was wrong to make that type of "cartoon" about the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), I think he knew that it would offend people, considering the fact that Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is a Prophet of about 3 billion people.

The terrorists are wrong to behead him. That makes a bad image of Islam, and they should have just left everyone alone. Its something that commonly happens. The sad fact is that there are racist people in the world. 

Everyone is wrong in this situation.

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On 10/30/2020 at 5:30 AM, Ansur Shiat Ali said:

considering the fact that Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is a Prophet of about 3 billion people.

It’s 1.8 billion bro. 

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One Muslim commits an ignorant terrible crime under a false Islamic pretense, and that means all innocent Muslims (the 99.9%) must collectively suffer its backlash and consequences? And Islam “is in crisis”? 

The many peaceful and charitable Muslims of the world don’t cancel this out? It only takes a few criminals (who have and will always exist) to negate the millions of good people? This is a rigged game by agenda seekers to set the bar such that they are guaranteed to get the narrative they want everytime.

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On 10/29/2020 at 5:09 PM, Diaz said:

Why did sayid khamenei compare different type of crimes together?

Salam because in France you can insult to anyone & make doubt about everything  but in other hand even light criticism  of official Holocaust  story will punish with most sever punishment  & official Holocaust story is the most sacred thing in France & rest of western world that even you don't  allow to deny it in your heart.

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Garaudy was fined 120,000 francs (18,000 dollars) by a Paris court in 1998 for his anti-Zionist work "The Founding Myths of Israeli Politics".

The court found that his account had distorted the wartime deaths of an estimated six million Jews.

https://www.france24.com/en/20120615-france-obituary-controversial-philosopher-garaudy-dies-98-paris-suburb-chennevieres

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Garaudy

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What did Ayatollah Khamenei tell Roger Garaudy about Jews?

Iran’s opposition to the Zionist regime and the U.S. government is absolutely free of racial or religious fanaticism, Ayatollah Khamenei said at the meeting with Roger Garaudy.

Quote

Before Ayatollah Khamenei’s speech, Mr. Roger Garuady said: “The Zionists have all the levers of powers at hand in the U.S. and American press, Radio, TV and cinema are all dominated by the Zionists. Thus I believe the U.S. is currently a colony of Israel. Mr. Gaurudy described U.S. policy towards the world as the rule of money and urged Muslim nations and Islamic governments to fight against the domineering policies of the U.S. and Israel.

Ayatollah Khamenei emphasized that,”Iran’s enmity against the U.S. and Zionism is based on logical Islamic principles; there is no racial and religious fanaticism ruling over the Iranian nation’s anti-US and anti-Zionist struggle. That is to say, if the U.S. was not arrogant and the Zionists didn’t commit such shameful crimes, we would not have taken such stances against them. We hold no prejudice and negativity against Jews; Jews are living peacefully and comfortably in Iran.”

His Eminence drew a parallel between the Zionist regime and the Nazis adding, “The Zionists and the Nazis have a lot in common. 

https://english.khamenei.ir/news/3911/What-did-Ayatollah-Khamenei-tell-Roger-Garaudy-about-Jews

http://ijtihadnet.com/what-did-ayatollah-khamenei-tell-roger-garaudy-about-jews/

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Regarding secularism in France: the French state and society, even today, is far from being truly, consistently secular, as the following indicates:

Quote

The laïcité did not clash, according to politicians, with government support of religious schools. Joan Wallach Scott says in her book The Politics of the Veil that:

“Since 1958, the French government has contributed 10 percent of the budgets of private religious schools; more than 2 million children attend state-supported Catholic schools…The school calendar still observes only Catholic (Christmas, Easter, etc) and state holidays; the proposal of the Stasi commission to add a Jewish and Muslim holidays was rejected by President Chirac” (p. 100-101).

Source

So the French are hypocritical in pretending to be secular. In many ways French society is actually clerical-fascist, “secular” veneer notwithstanding, like the U.S.

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On 10/29/2020 at 7:56 AM, ServantOfTheHousehold said:

On October 16th, a French teacher by the name of Samuel Paty was murdered by a "Muslim" named Abdoullakh Abouyedovich Anzorov. The teacher was beheaded because he depicted prophet Mohamed (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Muslim students considered this disrespectful because paty also depicted him with nudity. Eventually a students father shared a video telling the public about his actions. He told them that he was a sinner that needed to be brought to justice. Then Paty was hunted down and slaughtered. But for WHAT?! Showing a cartoon?!? Yes depicting the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is very disrespectful. BUT WHY SLAUGHTER HIM?!? Abdoullakh Abouyedovich Anzorov is not Muslim. ISLAM LITERALLY MEANS TO SURRENDER PEACEFULLY!! ASALAMUALAIKUM LITTERALY MEANS "peace be upon you"!! Astaghfirullah. Why Kill him?? There are so many things the father could have done. he could have transferred his daughter to another school. BUT NOO HE HAD TO SHARE THE VIDEO. He had to help spread fear. Islam to a lot of people is seen as a religion of TERROR not peace! But France is also in the subject. Firstly, the teacher showing nudity in a friking MIDDLE SCHOOL!! WHAT THE HECK MAN Second not firing the teacher seriously bro use you brain. Thirdly, RELIGEON SEPERATION WTH Macron are you trying to get yourself KILLED!! WHY BRO WHY?!?!

So who is in the wrong?? Islam or France?? I look forward to you guy's answer

Wassalamalaikum warahmatullaah (Salam means peace!!)

This is what Commander of the Faithful Imam Ali (عليه السلام). has to say on this issue:

Zayd ibn Ali (عليه السلام). narrated from his father (Ali as-Sajjad (عليه السلام).) from his grandfather (al-Husayn (عليه السلام).) from Ali (karramallahu wajhahu) that he (عليه السلام). said: "Whoever insults any prophet, we kill him". (Musnad Zayd ibn Ali)

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Making Fun

It is a serious sin to make fun of a believer’s actions, traits or habits in a manner that people find it funny and laugh. Whether it is done verbally or by actions or gestures, there is no doubt that such a behaviour will be severely punished.

Allah ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).) says in Surah at-Tawba,

“They who taunt those of the faithful who give their alms freely, and those who give to the extent of their earnings and scoff at them; Allah will pay them back their scoffings and they shall have a painful chastisement.” (Surah at-Tawba 9: 79)

https://www.al-islam.org/greater-sins-volume-3-ayatullah-sayyid-abdul-husayn-dastghaib-shirazi/forty-third-greater-sin

Quote

8. Slandering Allah ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).), Prophet (S) Or Imams ((عليه السلام).)

Q194: During verbal disputes, some people unfortunately employ words in a non-serious manner that imply disbelief in Allah ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).) or articulate that which is inappropriate for the infallible ones ((عليه السلام).). Is it obligatory to impose a penalty (hadd) on them for that?

A: As long as they are not serious and do not mean what they are saying, there is no shar'i penalty on them but they are deserving of ta'zir. (FM, p. 419)

Q195: If they are serious and intend to slander Allah ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).), the Prophet (S), the Imams ((عليه السلام).), religion or school of law (madhhab) and persist in this.

A: The ruling upon them is death. (FM, p. 419)

 

https://www.al-islam.org/contemporary-legal-rulings-shii-law-ayatullah-ali-al-sistani/b-muamalat

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44 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

The ruling upon them is death. (FM, p. 419)

Salam Brother, is this ruling in islamic country or non islamic country and is judge required? I am follower of Sistani. Thanks

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