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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why do babies die?

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Guest Boss Baby

I was wondering why is it that babies, small children, etc. Succumb to death at such a young age, for example we can dismiss the ones which are killed and bombed through the argument of mankind's evil, however, those who carry afflictions and die from them, what is the point? As you all know we are not sickened unless Allah permits it to be - those kids with cancer who are agonized and eventually die, what is the point in their suffering? Why would Allah create them just to torture them, I would really appreciate help in understanding this matter. 

@Muhammed Ali @.InshAllah. @The Green Knight @Abu Hadi @hasanhh @Ansur Shiat Ali @Mahdavist

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10 minutes ago, Guest Boss Baby said:

 those kids with cancer who are agonized and eventually die, what is the point in their suffering? Why would Allah create them just to torture them, I would really appreciate help in understanding this matter. 

@Muhammed Ali @.InshAllah. @The Green Knight @Abu Hadi @hasanhh @Ansur Shiat Ali @Mahdavist

It's not just a simple black and white issue like Why did God permit this to happen. It's a gray issue one which involves a lot of environmental, biological factors of parents, sometimes certain activities of the parents can affect the offspring for example a pregnant woman can pass HIV to the child during pregnancy, childbirth or through breast-feeding. It's a very complicated issue. And at times it has to do a lot more with biology/genetics than anything else. Parents are often told not to conceive for example if they have a very close blood relation. When they do and the child is deformed. Can they blame themselves or God? God is the entity who all the blame for any shortcomings fall onto automatically. 

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7 minutes ago, guest 2025 said:

 Sick people, deformed people, mentally disabled people, but come Judgement Day they will be the ones who pity us.

Actually, There are hadith which mention that the people who did not have a trial in this life will go to a place where there will neither be Heaven or Hell. And that it'll be a place of pity.

Also being a coward and being a Shi'ah are two things which can't go hand in hand. It's better to be tested with hardship and patience to show your devotion to your faith than ask for an easy-way out any day. Otherwise you never understood Karbala or the life of the Ahyl al Bayt(Peace be upon them).

And there will be far greater reward for the ones who were tested with hardship. All temptations and sticking onto faith in any situation is a hardship. Just not tough times are hardships.

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11 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Actually, There are hadith which mention that the people who did not have a trial in this life will go to a place where there will neither be Heaven or Hell. And that it'll be a place of pity.

Also being a coward and being a Shi'ah are two things which can't go hand in hand. It's better to be tested with hardship and patience to show your devotion to your faith than ask for an easy-way out any day. Otherwise you never understood Karbala or the life of the Ahyl al Bayt(Peace be upon them).

And there will be far greater reward for the ones who were tested with hardship. All temptations and sticking onto faith in any situation is a hardship. Just not tough times are hardships.

I have to question that hadith, because is goes against God's infinite mercy proclaimed in the Quran. I have heard narrations that say dead babies will be in Heaven.

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I agree with the above. I have heard that children who have not reached maturity will all go to heaven, and surely that includes infants as well.

I have also heard that that humans by nature are inclined towards what is right. That would agree with infants who pass away being among the people of heaven, not some place of pity.

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29 minutes ago, guest 2025 said:

I have to question that hadith, because is goes against God's infinite mercy proclaimed in the Quran. I have heard narrations that say dead babies will be in Heaven.

Actually you're doubting God's infinite mercy yourself by even entertaining the idea that you can go to Hell. The mercy of Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is too great to think such things as there will even be people on the DAJ who will have 0 good deeds and a mountain of sins but they will go to heaven because they never doubted the mercy of Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

Anyway, I was just mentioning those hadith. that's all. They say either they will go to that limbo or will  be tested in some way. No one just goes to Heaven just scot free from my understanding. But who am I to say anything as the final verdict is not with me.

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Salams everyone,

8 hours ago, El Cid said:

It's not just a simple black and white issue like Why did God permit this to happen. It's a gray issue one which involves a lot of environmental, biological factors of parents, sometimes certain activities of the parents can affect the offspring for example a pregnant woman can pass HIV to the child during pregnancy, childbirth or through breast-feeding. It's a very complicated issue. And at times it has to do a lot more with biology/genetics than anything else. Parents are often told not to conceive for example if they have a very close blood relation. When they do and the child is deformed. Can they blame themselves or God? God is the entity who all the blame for any shortcomings fall onto automatically. 

Adding onto this, the time of copulation as well the state the parents are in during copulation can affect the child. I heard that apparently looking at your wife's private part during copulation is actually not good (not sure how authentic this is)

6 hours ago, El Cid said:

Actually, There are hadith which mention that the people who did not have a trial in this life will go to a place where there will neither be Heaven or Hell. And that it'll be a place of pity.

I also heard that people who were mentally ill or died before reaching the age of responsibility are tested on the day of judgement and this will decide what happens (not sure as well)

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The Prophet(ﷺ) said: “Four types of people will be tested on the day of judgement: a deaf man who cannot hear anything, a mad man, an old aged man and a man who died during fatrah (a period of time when no messenger was sent to people). The deaf man will say: “Oh Allah, Islam came while I cannot hear anything!”. The mad man will say: “Oh Allah, Islam came while the boys throw animals’ excrement on me!”. The old aged man will say: “Oh Allah, Islam came while I can understand nothing”. And the man who died during a fatrah will say: “Oh Allah, I witnessed no messenger from You”. Then Allah takes a promise from them to obey Him. Then He will command them to enter hell, and who enters it will find it peace and cool, and who disobeys will be dragged to hell” (Masnad Ahmad)

Well this was the hadith about mad people and the ones who died in Jahaliyyah.

Seems there will be a trial of some sort.

@guest 2025 @ShiaofAli12

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47 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Well this was the hadith about mad people and the ones who died in Jahaliyyah.

Well these people didn’t feel any pain so I don’t think it’s the same

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@El Cid Do you have Shia narration? Because from what I have heard in lectures babies and even unborn children are going to Jannah.

If what you are saying is correct then what about Hazrat Mohsin(عليه السلام) and son if RasulAllah(عليه السلام) ? Doesn't make sense.

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8 minutes ago, starlight said:

@El Cid Do you have Shia narration? Because from what I have heard in lectures babies and even unborn children are going to Jannah.

If what you are saying is correct then what about Hazrat Mohsin(عليه السلام) and son if RasulAllah(عليه السلام) ? Doesn't make sense.

Sure I'll try to find some. The tragedy about hadith is that you read a thousand ones a day but when it's time to find them again. It's difficult. 

But I've read similar narrations in Shiah as well.

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26 minutes ago, starlight said:

 

If what you are saying is correct then what about Hazrat Mohsin(عليه السلام) and son if RasulAllah(عليه السلام) ? Doesn't make sense.

Though I do believe Masoom(Peace be upon them) have benefits and privileges that we don't so I wouldn't put those individuals into the same boat as us.

I've also read somewhere that the bodies of Masoom(Peace be upon them) do not rot. They are taken directly to Jannah after being buried. That must mean all the graves of our Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), Imams(Peace be upon them), Prophets of Past(Peace be upon them), Masoom(Peace be upon them) are all empty.

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In order to understand we first have to realize what this life is, what we are and if it is all significant or how much. But when it comes to children, to be honest, the thought of them having to live through this world is sufficient enough to make me sad. Children are like innocent beings from stars who should not have to deal with the wretched creatures on this earth and the deathgrip of evil upon it. But they do. Like vampires many of them as a result of this contact turn into such creatures. Even some adults are so good and such fine people who do not deserve all this torture of life, this overwhelming corruption and evil mankind enforces in this world. Some parents are such polluted beings they do not deserve children. Incest pedophiles for instance. This life is insignificant and I think in such a case it is a great mercy on the child if the Creator spares them such horrible fates. Some children die of cancer others get to live long miserable lives in this cancerous world. What is life worth when this world and society is so ugly.

You mention that disease and death is from God. But I offer you another thing to consider. Murder. Why are murderers punished then? And what if the children with cancer you mention are also being murdered at the hands of the same people murdering the children in Yemen, those who are fond of mass murder and have done it all over the world. Africa, Indochina, America, Middle East, everywhere. How? Why is cancer so rampant these days? Please ask the choir of fools who are now the guardians of humanity. How does cancer and all the diseases spread? Did God give us pesticides, caffeine, nicotine, oil burning engines, EM pollution, mobile phones, energy meters. Did God authorize FDA and mainstream science and the pharmaceutical and food industries, capitalism and imperialism? Did God direct us to feed arsenic to poultry "to make the meat have pink appeitizing color"? Lol. "Why do children die of cancer? Uhh, lets ignore the children dying in Yemen btw". Listen to yourself. Its all connected. When you kill millions isn't it fair that millions of you die to disease for instance? If that is fine then why is a randomly selected sad thing significant for you? If you are with this system, do not believe, then why complain? Soldier on I say.

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Salam, 

At the end of the day everyone shall taste death regardless of your age, gender, sex, status etc. 

Mankind has a soft spot for children, and young people who die at a very young age. This is because they are quite innocent at the time of death, and would not get the chance to experience this life. It also represents how attached we are to this world, and how misinformed we are of death/the afterworld. Our Prophet, and the Imams have warned us of this world, and the greatness of death/the after life. 

Of course it's very sad when innocent children, and young people die. Most of the time it's through mans own actions such as wars, genocides, and others it out of mans hands such as miscarriages, diseases, and various other things. However, I believe there is a mercy in both the young person dying, and how we view it. 

1. For the young person, death is a mercy. Allah knows best what this person would have done if he continued to live, he may have sinned, or misguided others. Or he may have been the best muslim on this Earth, at the end Allah is the most aware. 

2. For us this persons death is a settle reminder that death is all around us, and that no matter what age we will all experience it. Usually, when we are young. Death is never a thing we truly care about as our age makes us invincible... but, when we wear about a passing of a brother who passed away at the age of 20, we are all shocked, and can't believe the news. Covid-19 is a great example as this illness has the potential to bring death to any age, and has enabled us to truly reflect upon the realities of death. 

So, death of a young person is indeed very sad, but death its self is a mercy, and one step closer to becoming nearer to Allah. We should all strive to prepare for death before our time ends. 

 

Ws

 

 

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On 10/28/2020 at 3:31 PM, Guest Boss Baby said:

I think I can answer this but unfortunately it may require a lot of information. How much does the question trouble you?

Btw thanks for tagging inshallah. He is often overlooked even though he is very capable. Perhaps you can PM him somehow?

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On 10/29/2020 at 7:56 AM, El Cid said:

That must mean all the graves of our Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), Imams(Peace be upon them), Prophets of Past(Peace be upon them), Masoom(Peace be upon them) are all empty.

No. Contrary to that, we have narrations which say that the Prophet (s) and the ahlul bayt (عليه السلام) are inside their graves and when we visit them, we should consider that they are actually present there and looking back at us. I believe there is a hadith that the Prophet said that when you come to my grave, come to it as you would have come if I am alive (not exact words or meaning). 

I have also read that since the day the Prophet (s) was burried, there have been angels inside his grave who are constantly holding his body, lifting it up, so that it is not on the ground. 

We can probably not clearly comprehend what this all means but I don't think we have been advised to believe that their graves are empty. For all practical purposes we should believe that visiting their graves is like visiting them in real life, as they are actually, physically present there, right in front of us. 

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On 10/28/2020 at 11:31 AM, Guest Boss Baby said:

I was wondering why is it that babies, small children, etc. Succumb to death at such a young age, for example we can dismiss the ones which are killed and bombed through the argument of mankind's evil, however, those who carry afflictions and die from them, what is the point? As you all know we are not sickened unless Allah permits it to be - those kids with cancer who are agonized and eventually die, what is the point in their suffering? Why would Allah create them just to torture them, I would really appreciate help in understanding this matter. 

 

Salam brother, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says in the Quran, "And the next life is certainly far better for you than this one."

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) also says, "Perhaps you dislike something which is good for you and like something which is bad for you. Allah knows and you do not know."

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has not created them to torture them, but to give them something better then the Dunya, that is the Akhira. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says that we dislike something but it is good for us. No offence, but even though they must go through the Pain of cancer (or anything else that causes their death), they will get something in return.

فَرَوْحٌ وَرَيْحَانٌ وَجَنَّتُ نَعِيمٍ

Then [for him is] rest and bounty and a garden of pleasure.

(56:89)

After death there is the Barzakh (the life before Yawm al Qiyama) of rest, then there is Jannah.

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On 10/28/2020 at 11:31 AM, Guest Boss Baby said:

I was wondering why is it that babies, small children, etc. Succumb to death at such a young age, for example we can dismiss the ones which are killed and bombed through the argument of mankind's evil, however, those who carry afflictions and die from them, what is the point? As you all know we are not sickened unless Allah permits it to be - those kids with cancer who are agonized and eventually die, what is the point in their suffering? Why would Allah create them just to torture them, I would really appreciate help in understanding this matter. 

@Muhammed Ali @.InshAllah. @The Green Knight @Abu Hadi @hasanhh @Ansur Shiat Ali @Mahdavist

There is no point.  Just drama.  It makes for good drama.

there is no point to creation.  Creation is just a dramatic play.

Your uneasiness at hearing about children dying (that gut wrenching feeling you have thinking about this) is ALSO part of the dramatic play.  Don’t leave yourself out of it!

Edited by eThErEaL
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33 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

There is no point.  Just drama.  It makes for good drama.

What about this verse?

Those who remember Allah standing and sitting and lying on their sides and reflect on the creation of the heavens and the earth: Our Lord! Thou hast not created this in vain! Glory be to Thee; save us then from the chastisement of the fire. (3:191)

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On 10/28/2020 at 11:31 AM, Guest Boss Baby said:

Why would Allah create them just to torture them, I would really appreciate help in understanding this matter

Why does the thought of dying and death have to be equated to torture? The babies and children die young, die loved and safe, even if they do suffer.

This life and the promised Hereafter are far more frightening than a single moment of one closing his eyes and leaving this wretched world forever.

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23 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

What about this verse?

Those who remember Allah standing and sitting and lying on their sides and reflect on the creation of the heavens and the earth: Our Lord! Thou hast not created this in vain! Glory be to Thee; save us then from the chastisement of the fire. (3:191)

Exactly.  Life is all but a drama.  The biggest cinema in existence!  How is that in vain when it is entertaining, exciting and fun!  Going to work and doing things that have a reason is boring!  Now things that have a reason behind them are truly things done is vain for they are boring.  God is the greatest entertainer.  Think of something you HATE doing.. like doing your taxes.  Doing your taxes is boring because there are reasons behind it.  Think of something you LOVE.  Maybe you love to dance or play basketball or draw... Such an activity has absolutely no reason... it is just FUN.  
 

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34 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

 Think of something you LOVE.  Maybe you love to dance or play basketball or draw... Such an activity has absolutely no reason... it is just FUN.  
 

It is fun because I feel active, more fit and endorphins & dopamine is released in my body. I like to eat because my stomach gets full (more dopamine) and the tastebuds have an amazing experience. These activities seem to have purpose.

These activities are good. But should we over-indulge in Dunya like a cat chasing a stick that it’ll never get, or should we realise that He is awwal wa akhir wa zaahir wa baatin and do everything for the sake of Him?

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23 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

even if they do suffer.

I think this is the problem that people have. However, if the baby forgets any pain and lives in eternal bliss in heaven then I don’t see why the problem ought to remain. I hope this is what happens.

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On 10/29/2020 at 5:56 AM, starlight said:

@El Cid Do you have Shia narration? Because from what I have heard in lectures babies and even unborn children are going to Jannah.

If what you are saying is correct then what about Hazrat Mohsin(عليه السلام) and son if RasulAllah(عليه السلام) ? Doesn't make sense.

Quote

"Had a believer known what rewards Allah has prepared for him on account of his affliction, he would have wished he had been cut in the life of this world with scissors."1

Through isnad by Ali ibn Maysarah4, Imam Abu Abdullah (ع) says, "One son offered by a man is better than seventy who survive him, all having mounted over horses and fought in the Way of Allah."5

He (ع) is also cited as having said, "A believer's reward from his sons is Paradise, whether he was patient [at their demise] or not."6 He (ع) has also said, "If one is afflicted by a calamity, and if he fretted because of it or did not, whether he was patient about it or not, his reward from Allah for it will be Paradise."7 He (ع) has also said, "One son offered by a man is better for him than seventy who survive him and who live to meet al-Qa’im, peace be with him."8

Let us quote only what supports our topic, for such traditions have been narrated about the Prophet (ص) by more than thirty of his companions.

As-Saduq, may Allah have mercy on him, has narrated it through isnad to Amr ibn Absah al-Salami who said, "I heard the Messenger of Allah (ص) saying, 'Any man offers three sons who did not yet reach maturity, or if a woman offers three of her sons, they will be a veil protecting him/her from the fire."2

Abu Dharr al-Ghifari, may Allah be pleased with him, has said, "There are no two Muslims [parents] who offer three sons who are yet to reach maturity except that Allah permits them to enter Paradise through His mercy."3

https://www.al-islam.org/heart-comforter-shaykh-zayn-ad-din-ali-ibn-muhammad-al-jabi-al-amili/rewards-loss-children

 

On 10/29/2020 at 12:05 AM, Abu Nur said:

We have narrations that they become servant in Jannah. 

 

On 10/28/2020 at 9:08 PM, guest 2025 said:

I have to question that hadith, because is goes against God's infinite mercy proclaimed in the Quran. I have heard narrations that say dead babies will be in Heaven.

Anas ibn Malik is quoted as having said that a man used to bring his son together with him whenever he used to see the Messenger of Allah (ص). The son died, so his father stopped going to visit the Prophet (ص) who inquired about him. People said to the Prophet (ص), "O Messenger of Allah! His son, whom you had seen in his company, has died."

The Prophet (ص) said, "Why did you not tell me? Stand and let us go to our brother to console him." When the Prophet (ص) entered the man's place, he found him very sad and forlorn, so he offered his condolences to him. The man said, "O Messenger of Allah! I used to treasure him for my old age and feebleness."

The Messenger of Allah (ص) said to him, "Does it not please you that on the Day of Judgment, he will be beside you? He will be told to enter Paradise, whereupon he will say, 'Lord! What about my parents?' He will keep pleading till Allah, the most Exalted, the most Great, accepts his intercession and permits you all to enter Paradise."21

Anas is also quoted as having said that ‘Uthman ibn Maz`un, may Allah be pleased with him, lost a son; therefore, his grief was intense, so much so that he took for himself a niche in his house where he worshipped. The Prophet (ص) came to know about it, whereupon he said, "O ‘Uthman! Allah, the most Exalted One, the most Great, did not obligate us to live like monks. Rather, asceticism of my nation is jihad (holy war) in the way of Allah.

O ‘Uthman son of Maz`un! Paradise has eight gates and Hell has seven; does it not please you that whenever you come to any gate of Paradise, you will find your son standing at it, holding your robe (pleading to the Almighty to let you in)?"

It was said to the Messenger of Allah (ص), "O Messenger of Allah! Shall we get with regard to our sons what ‘Uthman will be getting?" The Prophet (ص) said, "Yes, for all those among you who are patient and who rest their hope on Allah's rewards."22

https://www.al-islam.org/heart-comforter-shaykh-zayn-ad-din-ali-ibn-muhammad-al-jabi-al-amili/rewards-loss-children

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On 10/28/2020 at 8:50 PM, guest 2025 said:

Right now we pity people "in a bad position". Sick people, deformed people, mentally disabled people, but come Judgement Day they will be the ones who pity us.

Quote

Sa`sa`ah ibn Mu`awiyah is quoted as having said, "I met Abu Dharr al-Ghifari, may Allah be pleased with him, in the Rabadha with a camel on which he had loaded two bags, and on the camel's neck he was hanging a water bag. I said to him, 'O Abu Dharr! What is wrong?!' He said, 'I am just working.' I said to him, 'Narrate a tradition for me, may Allah have mercy on you.' He said, 'I heard the Messenger of Allah (ص) say that any Muslim couple whose three children die before reaching the age of maturity will be forgiven by Allah through the favor of His mercy on account of those whom they lose.'"

 

On 10/29/2020 at 12:05 AM, Abu Nur said:

We have narrations that they become servant in Jannah. 

In his book titled Al-Ihyaa, al-Ghazali narrates saying that there was a particular righteous man to whom marriage was suggested a number of times, but he always refused. One day he woke up from his sleep and asked others to help him get married. He was asked about his sudden change of heart, so he said, "I hope perhaps the Almighty will grant me a son then take him away so he will be in the Hereafter in the forefront."

Then he said, "I saw in my vision as if the Day of Judgment had approached. It was as though I was among the crowds in that situation suffering from thirst that would tear my heart apart, and so were the rest of beings because of thirst and hardship. As we were thus, boys made their way in the midst of people carrying lanterns of noor (celestial light) and also carrying water jars made of silver and cups made of gold.

They gave water to one person after the other. They were going through the crowds, bypassing most of them by. I stretched my hand to one of them and said to him, "Give me a drink for thirst has worn me out.' He said, 'You have no son among us; we only give drink to our parents.' I asked him, 'Who are you?' He said, 'We are children of Muslim parents who died.'"43

https://www.al-islam.org/heart-comforter-shaykh-zayn-ad-din-ali-ibn-muhammad-al-jabi-al-amili/rewards-loss-children

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1 hour ago, 313_Waiter said:

It is fun because I feel active, more fit and endorphins & dopamine is released in my body. I like to eat because my stomach gets full (more dopamine) and the tastebuds have an amazing experience. These activities seem to have purpose.

you find playing sports fun BECAUSE you want to release dopamine?  ...?  

you find pleasure in eating because you want your taste buds to have an amazing experience?  You eat for the sake of your tastebuds?  I have never heard anyone say that.
:confused:

If you find something fun it is precisely because it has no purpose.  Fun is something that is in the moment.  There is precisely no goal relating to something outside of that activity.  If you love drawing, you are certainly NOT drawing BECAUSE you need your body to release dopamine or because you need it to earn a living or because you want to get into art school etc etc.. no, you love drawing because you love drawing (nothing much is there to it).  A purposeless life is a life WORTH living.  

Quote

These activities are good. But should we over-indulge in Dunya like a cat chasing a stick that it’ll never get, or should we realise that He is awwal wa akhir wa zaahir wa baatin and do everything for the sake of Him?

Was I saying we should over-indulge?  

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52 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

you find playing sports fun BECAUSE you want to release dopamine?  ...?  

Perhaps it’s part of my biological instincts to find something I’ll enjoy, or something that’ll make me feel better and fitter.

 

54 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

A purposeless life is a life WORTH living.  

Is it purposeless if you’re having fun? :yahoo: 

 

54 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

Was I saying we should over-indulge?  

Nope, but I wanted to put it out there :grin:

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1 hour ago, 313_Waiter said:

I think this is the problem that people have.

Life is full of suffering, we were born with our mothers suffering and we will die with hopefully a family to mourn and suffer their loss.

Suffering is not something to solve but to embrace; The people who struggle with suffering are naive for thinking this world should confirm to their idealization of fairness. 

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I don't know if this is relevant but I found this beautiful hadith:

The Prophet (ص) is quoted as having said, "Stillborns will be told on the Judgment Day to enter Paradise, whereupon they will say, 'Lord! Not till our parents enter!' They will thus refuse to enter. It is then that the Almighty, Exalted and Great is He, shall say, 'Why do I see you hesitating? Enter Paradise.' They will say, 'Lord! Our parents!' The Almighty will then say, 'Enter Paradise, you and your parents.'"

This is narrated by Ahmad in his Musnad, Vol. 4, p. 105.

 

Also:

Abu Dharr al-Ghifari, may Allah be pleased with him, has said, "There are no two Muslims [parents] who offer three sons who are yet to reach maturity except that Allah permits them to enter Paradise through His mercy."

Thawab Al-A`mal, pp. 2, 233.

Finally:

As-Saduq, may Allah have mercy on him, has narrated it through isnad to Amr ibn Absah al-Salami who said, "I heard the Messenger of Allah (ص) saying, 'Any man offers three sons who did not yet reach maturity, or if a woman offers three of her sons, they will be a veil protecting him/her from the fire."

Thawab Al-A`mal, pp. 2, 233.

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20 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Suffering is not something to solve but to embrace

Yes in this world it is to be embraced and accepted as a test (2:155)

21 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

The people who struggle with suffering are naive for thinking this world should confirm to their idealization of fairness. 

Yes I agree we don’t determine the standard of what is fair or what is not fair, but as Muslims we agree that fairness, truth and love exists, because Allah exists, and he is al adl, al haqq and al wadud. So I don’t see the harm in trying to understand, edify and enlighten oneself on why something is fair using our gift of the intellect as well as through the hadiths of His vicegerents. But I get your point, we need to be humble and not “take our desires as our Lord”.


 

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11 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

Perhaps it’s part of my biological instincts to find something I’ll enjoy, or something that’ll make me feel better and fitter.

Those are side reasons.  Think of when you were a kid.  And you used to play sports and play Tag with your friends... were you thinking, “yeah I am burning calories, this is making me more fit..”  of course not.  Yes, those are benefits that you can think of later but they are not intrinsically connected to that very activity wherein you were having fun.  What made it fun was because you found that it was in such an activity you were able to let go purpose, goals, or expectations.  This is why the most annoying thing for a child is to talk about their future and what they ought to do now to secure a good future.  A child is more fitrah based than a grown up spoiled adult that finds it normal to do things FOR THE SAKE OF SOMETHING ELSE....and then we expect that God is supposed to be spoiled like us adults and we think He also does Things FOR The Sake of... this or that.  
God is not a spoiled adult.  He is just normal and is just having fun creating (just as an Artist has fun drawing).  

 

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Is it purposeless if you’re having fun? :yahoo: 

Having fun is simply being happy where you are.  There is no goal outside of that particular activity you are having fun with.  This is why it is those things which have no purpose that are fun.  The creation has no “purpose.”  Life is truly about enjoying it and having fun.  This is what “contentment” with what God has given us is all about.  Gratefulness is about Just  Being Where You Are and loving it!  

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Nope, but I wanted to put it out there :grin:

 

Edited by eThErEaL
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@eThErEaL....please have some sensitivity brother.... you might give everyone else a heart attack...

@313_Waiter what he means is: purpose is when it is for the future. Yet future does not mean anything for the absolute, it is only for the limited... so there's no need for the absolute to have any purpose. ''Fun'' is a way to interpret this.

Although, for us, the limited there definitely is a purpose because there is a future. 

That's why Allah says in the Quran: Do you really think we have created you for naught/ for play? (Definitely not the exact ayah but something like that...)

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5 hours ago, Justsomeone said:

eThErEaL....please have some sensitivity brother.... you might give everyone else a heart attack...

Heart attacks aren't caused by insensitivity but by too much cholesterol and fat in the heart.

However I agree that he should be more mindful, alas he's an atheist. I doubt he will listen to you or anyone else in the forums.

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