Would you STILL worship God IF... Be Honest!

[Labbayka 82]

20 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

I am an Atheist that loves the Prophet (S) apparently.  

Why did you become Atheist

[eThErEaL 3,085]

1 minute ago, Labbayka said:

Why did you become Atheist

I was always an Atheist at heart. (but let us not digress this thread with personal matters).

Edited October 24, 2020 by eThErEaL

[Hani B. 28]

18 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

So if we were living a virtual HELL wherein everything goes wrong

then we have good reason to not be thankful and not worship God.  right?

No, because we would be in virtual hell for a reason. I'd repent if I did something wrong, and I'd ask for him to put me in a better place

[Cool 1,081]

39 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

even though they are reluctant to admit that they don't worship God all the time in our real life circumstances.   What makes them think they would worship God when they have everything they want whenever they want?

Sleep of a Mo'min is worship.

Tafakkur of Mo'min is worship.

Every breath of Mo'min is worship.

What you think worship is?

[Cool 1,081]

40 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

was always an Atheist at heart

Is this what you call "taqaiyyah"? 

You are not an Atheist, you cannot.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Cool

[Gaius I. Caesar 8,710]

56 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

I completely disagree.

What do you disagree with? You expect us to sincere, yet when we say we would continue worshipping Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) if we were immortal, you tell us that we are being insincere.

You can't force the answer you want out of people, because that would be insincere. It is simply illogical.

[notme 20,773]

18 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

If doing wrong causes pain to the soul why do you have to "try" to avoid wrong?  It should be instinctive for you to avoid the wrong just like it is instinctive for you to not put your hand in the fire.  Do you have to battle with yourself, "hmm, I really want to put my hand in the fire but I know it will pain me, so I am going not fall into the temptation of putting my hand in the fire and try my best to keep away from it".     

We're like little children, who have been told that the flame is hot, that it will hurt, but we are drawn to it because it is fascinating. Some children are burned more than once before they learn the lesson to avoid the flame. 

[starlight 14,757]

This thread stopped making sense to me after the first page. 

[eThErEaL 3,085]

41 minutes ago, notme said:

We're like little children, who have been told that the flame is hot, that it will hurt, but we are drawn to it because it is fascinating. Some children are burned more than once before they learn the lesson to avoid the flame. 

so in the scenario of the child, the curiosity the child has of the flame is "pleasurable", and because it is pleasurable he goes towards it, until he he actually gets burnt.  Once he gets burnt and feels the pain, he immediately pulls his hands away from it (because now he feels displeasure).  Is worshipping God something done out of such pleasure and obeying his prohibitions done out of avoiding immediate pain?  (obviously not right...?)

The "nafs" is what finds something as either pleasurable or displeasurable, as likable or dislikable.  The nafs is either attached or averse to something.  Is this how worship is performed.  IF so, then wouldn't we be obeying our nafs rather than God?

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by eThErEaL

[dragonxx 899]

12 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

So, in 24hrs, how often do you follow God’s commandment to remember Him a lot (while standing, sitting, laying down etc).?

Are you like a 100% or are you at least above 50%?

because you are describing yourself as a saint.

i don't know.

i don't know.

i did not describe myself, i used "we", referring to any who holds belief of Allah dearly and strives towards perfection despite knowing perfection for the average human will never be achieved.

I will say you are forgetting concepts, as Cool pointed out, such as one who goes to sleep in a state of wudhu it is as if he spent the night in prayer. Guess I'm at 33% at least. Lol.

15 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

I guess I am the only one?  

 

15 hours ago, dragonxx said:

Unfortunately, those who lack faith deny this possibility, because the possibility did not exist in the first place. So of course, it is difficult for them to accept it thereafter.

So no, you are not the only one, all the disbelievers are on board with you =)

[notme 20,773]

3 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

The "nafs" is what finds something as either pleasurable or displeasurable, as likable or dislikable.  The nafs is either attached or averse to something.  Is this how worship is performed.  IF so, then wouldn't we be obeying our nafs rather than God?

I never thought of it like that. 

I dislike the idea and I can't really explain why. It seems to preclude free will, maybe. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by notme

[HamidCZ 53]

Assalamu Aleikoum,

this is kinda weird question, i think that only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) can give immortality and in general He won't give that to no one, as it´s stated in the Qur'an ,,every soul will taste death".

[eThErEaL 3,085]

4 hours ago, notme said:

I never thought of it like that. 

I dislike the idea and I can't really explain why. It seems to preclude free will, maybe. 

Your nafs dislikes the idea because your nafs would like to think it is free.  But it is not your nafs that is free (never was and never will be).  It is the spirit (ruh) that is free (if and when it is detached from the nafs). That awareness that stands neutral to your nafs (your nafs being nothing but a bundle of likes and dislikes) is aware of your likes and your dislikes but is Neither your likes nor your dislikes.  That awareness is your spirit (ruh).  It is in-and-of-itself at ease, completely satisfied and content (regardless of whether the nafs experiences displeasure or pleasure).  Your spirit is innately in submission to its Lord (just as an angel is innately obedient) for after all, your spirit is angelic in substance (lt is a created light that existentially follows the command of God).  “And of the spirit, we know little, it is but the Command of your Lord”.  

Edited October 25, 2020 by eThErEaL

[eThErEaL 3,085]

22 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

What do you disagree with? You expect us to sincere, yet when we say we would continue worshipping Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) if we were immortal, you tell us that we are being insincere.

You can't force the answer you want out of people, because that would be insincere. It is simply illogical.

You expect me to agree, who is trying to force an answer now?

[Gaius I. Caesar 8,710]

10 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

You expect me to agree, who is trying to force an answer now?

No, I don't and you're still trying to force people to write what you want to read. That is the only reason why  this thread exists, so you can mock and chide us for our "insincere" answers. 

As for your question, to everyone reading this thread, this is a is-ought problem: It is impossible to come to a conclusion about morality or ethics from a non-moral premise. 

[Guest Justsomeone]

Well, I've been thinking about it recently and I think I would. Then again I don't know what I would really do because I've never been in that kind of situation so...

I believe in God. And by God, I mean a higher power, some might call it the universe or nature or anything for that matter. To me, they're the same.

Right now, the reason to worship God is to bring humility in life, to realize that there is something bigger than yourself. 

I believe other rules in Islam are there for reasons.

So... if worshipping God is to live according to the rules that I consider Good (or in other words rules of the universe), then yeah, I would worship him.

And this all isn't really coming from a place of love or anything. As of present, I don't know if I have any "love" for God per se (I might in the future) But I do it because I deem it as best.

[eThErEaL 3,085]

2 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

No, I don't and you're still trying to force people to write what you want to read. That is the only reason why  this thread exists, so you can mock and chide us for our "insincere" answers. 

As for your question, to everyone reading this thread, this is a is-ought problem: It is impossible to come to a conclusion about morality or ethics from a non-moral premise. 

I don’t agree.  So can you prove to me you are moral.

Edited October 25, 2020 by eThErEaL

[ServantOfTheHousehold 54]

On 10/23/2020 at 10:45 PM, eThErEaL said:

Yes, but let us say you are reassured by God that He won’t take it away. “I promise!”

Still he is my master. And if I was given the gift of immortality I know that its a gift so great that its from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) not from science.

[shadow_of_light 1,869]

On 10/24/2020 at 12:41 AM, eThErEaL said:

You are not addressing the post.  Obviously living forever with sickness and misery is a reason.  But I am talking about living forever without any sickness, poverty, old age, difficulties, and getting everything you possibly can want when you want it.  

Even if your life is without any difficulty, you still will see other people suffering and as long as you see people suffering, you cannot be really happy unless you are an emotionless person and we cannot expect such a selfish person to truely believe in God and worship Him. In other words, a true believer will never enjoy an immortal life on this earth.

[hasanhh 10,167]

2 hours ago, Guest Justsomeone said:

I believe in God. And by God, I mean a higher power, some might call it the universe or nature or anything for that matter. To me, they're the same.

OPINE: Since the evilgelicals misuse the cliche "higher power" on a continuing basis, l have an unease about using this in lslam.

al-Qadeer -(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). has the triliteral root qaf dal ra which occurs 132 times in Quran.

As Allah-(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). is an active 'determiner'/'decider' in all things, and the verb form of this triliteral in Quran is rendered 'control', 'overpower', 'appraise', 'decrees', 'restricts', 'predestines', 'determines', 'measures', 'is able'; and in nominal noun "All Powerful". The illusion that "power" is like some kind of electrical generation, gravitational  or, blasphemously, mythological is completely wrong. When Quran reveals "all things" it means all things.

A second thing wrong is the word "higher'. The God of Noah -(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). is, as Quran reveals, closer to us than our jugular (Ayat 50:16) and He -(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). is Witness to All Things. He -(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). is not displaced in another location.

[eThErEaL 3,085]

5 hours ago, shadow_of_light said:

Even if your life is without any difficulty, you still will see other people suffering and as long as you see people suffering, you cannot be really happy unless you are an emotionless person and we cannot expect such a selfish person to truely believe in God and worship Him. In other words, a true believer will never enjoy an immortal life on this earth.

Yes.  What if no one suffered?

[eThErEaL 3,085]

5 hours ago, ServantOfTheHousehold said:

Still he is my master. And if I was given the gift of immortality I know that its a gift so great that its from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) not from science.

Well, sure.  But why would you worship God. Just sin if you want.  I mean are you sinless right now?  

[ServantOfTheHousehold 54]

1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

Well, sure.  But why would you worship God. Just sin if you want.  I mean are you sinless right now?  

Firstly, I'm not sinless. No one is ma'sum except for Ahlulbayt (asws). I already made this clear I worship Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) because he is my creator my master my God I don't care if I'm immortal I don't care if I can destroy the universe I don't care if I can do the Impossible because in the end Allah can do WAY more. Allah is not to be compared TO ANYTHING. Not to science, not to logic, not to angels not to people. NOTHING is compared to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

[Ashvazdanghe 8,354]

On 10/24/2020 at 6:57 PM, Cool said:

Sleep of a Mo'min is worship.

Tafakkur of Mo'min is worship.

Every breath of Mo'min is worship.

What you think worship is?

Quote

13- Very much offering of prayers and fasting is not the worship; the very worship is the very much pondering over the affairs of Allah.

https://en.abna24.com/news//8th-rabiul-awal-martyrdom-anniversary-of-imam-hassan-al-askari-biography_1080579.html

[shadow_of_light 1,869]

9 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

Yes.  What if no one suffered?

Then there will be a contradiction: if no one suffers, it means that no one will commit sin (no one will oppress others, no one will rob, no one will kill the innocent,...). So it means that every one will obey divine orders.

[eThErEaL 3,085]

14 hours ago, ServantOfTheHousehold said:

Firstly, I'm not sinless. No one is ma'sum except for Ahlulbayt (asws). I already made this clear I worship Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) because he is my creator my master my God I don't care if I'm immortal I don't care if I can destroy the universe I don't care if I can do the Impossible because in the end Allah can do WAY more. Allah is not to be compared TO ANYTHING. Not to science, not to logic, not to angels not to people. NOTHING is compared to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

In the scenario I was drawing:

This Lord of the Worlds, isn't going to punish you at all even if you disobey Him.  You will live on forever and you will get whatever you want whenever you want.  So what is the need to avoid evil and do good If you are not inclined.  You agree?

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by eThErEaL

[eThErEaL 3,085]

6 hours ago, shadow_of_light said:

Then there will be a contradiction: if no one suffers, it means that no one will commit sin (no one will oppress others, no one will rob, no one will kill the innocent,...). So it means that every one will obey divine orders.

uhmm, maybe there is  a way God can allow one to act out without harming others...like a video game.  So, let us say there is a serial killer that loves to kill people, well HE will be placed in a virtual reality that appears to be real to him alone, wherein he can kill as many people as he wants (without ACTUALLY killing ANYONE or hurting ANYONE).

[ServantOfTheHousehold 54]

1 minute ago, eThErEaL said:

In the scenario I was drawing:

This Lord of the Worlds, isn't going to punish you at all even if you disobey Him.  You will live on forever and you will get whatever you want whenever you want.  So what is the need to avoid evil and do good If you are not inclined.  You agree?

Again, my loyalty stays with Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). I don"t like to stab people in the back. So if i'm disgusted with doing this, do you actually think i'd do it to ALLAH The lord of all existence, and every single little or big creation?? No disrespect intended but you've actually lost your mind if you think: yes. if you think no I respect that.

[Gaius I. Caesar 8,710]

On 10/25/2020 at 12:45 PM, eThErEaL said:

 So can you prove to me you are moral.

This is irrelevant but I never committed murder, I respect my mother, try to be fair and follow Islam to the best of my limited ability.

[shoelace 58]

On 10/23/2020 at 11:11 PM, eThErEaL said:

Hey guys,

so I was wondering if there are any Muslims here that can honestly and sincerely say that they would still worship God if they were granted immortal lives on this earth, and if they were were not inflicted with sickness, old age, weakness, suffering, poverty and hunger.  By worship, I mean, would you still follow God’s commandments and prohibitions etc etc.  

Because I, as a proud Atheist, cannot honestly imagine why anyone would worship a God if there was no Hell consequence and if everything already is like a virtual paradise.   Just be honest with yourself before replying.  Be a bit introspective and then reply please.  

Thank you!!!!

 

your worship if a worship of a business man that why you will worship only until you get every thing

 

if your worship will become a worship of a human being who is grateful then you will worship GOD always even if you have got every thing you always wanted.

[notme 20,773]

2 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

In the scenario I was drawing:

This Lord of the Worlds, isn't going to punish you at all even if you disobey Him.  You will live on forever and you will get whatever you want whenever you want.  So what is the need to avoid evil and do good If you are not inclined.  You agree?

 

So basically what you are asking is whether we will continue to obey and worship Allah, even if we attain Paradise? 

[hasanhh 10,167]

Comment: 

4 hours ago, shoelace said:

your worship if a worship of a business man that why you will worship only until you get every thing

 

if your worship will become a worship of a human being who is grateful then you will worship GOD always even if you have got every thing you always wanted.

The God of Noah -(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). created the 'you'(nafs) that makes you you.

4 hours ago, shoelace said:

 . . . a worship of a human being who is grateful then you will worship GOD always even if you have got every thing you always wanted.

 

3 hours ago, notme said:

So basically what you are asking is whether we will continue to obey and worship Allah, even if we attain Paradise? 

ln the Here and Hereafter, inshallah.

[eThErEaL 3,085]

5 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

This is irrelevant but I never committed murder, I respect my mother, try to be fair and follow Islam to the best of my limited ability.

no, very very relevant!  look carefully at the mirror, and tell me what you see.

[eThErEaL 3,085]

5 hours ago, notme said:

So basically what you are asking is whether we will continue to obey and worship Allah, even if we attain Paradise? 

except that there are laws, dos and donts.  Going against the law is bad and following it is good, but there is absolutely no punishment if you don't follow the laws.    

 

[Gaius I. Caesar 8,710]

1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

except that there are laws, dos and donts.  Going against the law is bad and following it is good, but there is absolutely no punishment if you don't follow the laws.    

 

Are you still talking about your scenario or Jannah

 

1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

no, very very relevant!  look carefully at the mirror, and tell me what you see.

Tell me how you see yourself in the proverbial mirror and how it relates to this virtual heaven scenario.