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In the Name of God بسم الله

All signs leading to Imam Mahdi that have occurred

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Just now, Allah Seeker said:

btw @F.MI am not saying head veil is necessarily bad. It can be the right thing for the right person at the right place and time. But we must consider and respect that forced general hijab is against the sunnah, and I am totally against going beyond the bounds of the prophet in anything islamic. So that needs to be pointed out. There is wisdom to those limitations and freedoms in the governance of people, 

yeah true forced hijab isnt allowed

thats also why i personally belief it isnt allowed for iran to literally force women to wear hijab.. the dress code is enough in my opinion women must decide herself if she wants to start it or not..

elsewhere you will see soo much hate only for a hijab.. and when they get out of iran you will se all of them in skinny clothes, with the shortest mini skirts.. thats not how its supposed to happen

i think the dresscode for aswell male and female is more than enough.. and let the women decide herself if she wants to wear the hijab

 

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i think the most imortant part which almost never has been spoken about.  is that an islamic revolution had started.. it has never been before that such thing happened.. shia islam is also spreading r

I have decided to make this post so we can decipher the signs that have happened and the signs yet to happen and predicting how close the next sign is. Major Signs: Appearance of Sufyani

Personally, l'd count my blessings before 'she' takes them away. Along with your $.

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Just now, F.M said:

yeah true forced hijab isnt allowed

thats also why i personally belief it isnt allowed for iran to literally force women to wear hijab.. the dress code is enough in my opinion women must decide herself if she wants to start it or not..

elsewhere you will see soo much hate only for a hijab.. and when they get out of iran you will se all of them in skinny clothes, with the shortest mini skirts.. thats not how its supposed to happen

i think the dresscode for aswell male and female is more than enough.. and let the women decide herself if she wants to wear the hijab

 

I finished my reaction quota for the day, but I wanted to fully agree. It is very simple to me. Follow the documented way of the prophet and don't make up new more difficult rules than the prophet and imam ali did. If anything, it should be easier,  but definitely not more difficult. So the women who wear hijab can wear it with honor 

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3 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

Brother if there is a single narration for what I asked for, copy paste it. Thanks,  you'll be a hero if you do

You need to check that actually. 

If you see it then you will understand that a Jurist has an authority upon us in the ghayba of Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) and according to Quranic verses:

Atiullaha wa ati ur rasool wa ulil amr minkum. 

You need to obey the ulil amr. If that authority establishes a rule, you can't object to it. I gave the reason of the rule to be political. 

It is also not an innovation because innovation is something extra in religion. Obeying a religious authority is not something extra. Also, their is no narration that under the conditions 'Hijab should not be applied to the non-muslim women'. 

So, Thankyou. I respectfully disagree with your points. While you are correct while saying that Hijab is an islamic law and not for non-muslims. But everything else is just baseless. 

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5 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

khumur can be tent, covering, intoxication, etc. We can say covering for now, but it does not specify what. It leaves it relatively open and flexible. 

Apply it in the context. It is head-covering over their. 

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15 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

khumur can be tent, covering, intoxication, etc. We can say covering for now, but it does not specify what. It leaves it relatively open and flexible. 

 

Quote

 

1) What is the meaning of “khumur” used in this verse?

Khumur خُمُرٌ is plural of khimarخِمَارٌ , the veil covering the head. See any Arabic dictionary like Lisanu ’l-‘Arab, Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn or al-Munjid.

Al-Munjid, which is the most popular dictionary in the Arab world, defines al-khimar as “something with which a woman conceals her head —ما تغطى به المرأة رأسها .” Fakhru ’d-Din al-Turayhi in Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn (which is a dictionary of Qur’anic and hadith terms) defines al-khimar as “scarf, and it is known as such because the head is covered with it.”2

So the word khimar, by definition, means a piece of cloth that covers the head.

 

 

I don't think it could be more clear than this.

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21 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

You need to check that actually. 

If you see it then you will understand that a Jurist has an authority upon us in the ghayba of Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) and according to Quranic verses:

Atiullaha wa ati ur rasool wa ulil amr minkum. 

You need to obey the ulil amr. If that authority establishes a rule, you can't object to it. I gave the reason of the rule to be political. 

It is also not an innovation because innovation is something extra in religion. Obeying a religious authority is not something extra. Also, their is no narration that under the conditions 'Hijab should not be applied to the non-muslim women'. 

So, Thankyou. I respectfully disagree with your points. While you are correct while saying that Hijab is an islamic law and not for non-muslims. But everything else is just baseless. 

Ulil amr and jurists need to back up their every statement with quran and hadiths, or else they don't represent islam, but satan instead. There is no blind following of anybody. That is why this discussion started, as we have clear narrations about jurists in the end times. The jurists will be imam mahdis first and biggest enemies, and he will punish them for it and massacre them, and humiliate and expose their hypocrisy in sha Allah. Those are the hadiths talking, not me. Those hadiths really exist. So my advice is to not follow or support any of them blindly. With the Internet now there won't be an excuse anymore.  Quran and hadiths are readily available in matter of seconds by moving a finger! 

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blind not blond :D
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10 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

 

 

I don't think it could be more clear than this.

Dictionaries by themselves without direct proof from quran and hadiths have zero authority. Where is ahl bayt tafsir of this word? Where is quranic clarification of this word? Actually there is none related to head or hair 

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27 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

But everything else is just baseless

How can you say my claim is baseless, when you didn't bring a single proof for your claim from quran and hadiths? Get one hadith showing the prophet made it a rule for Muslim or non Muslim women. 

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23 minutes ago, F.M said:

thats also why i personally belief it isnt allowed for iran to literally force women to wear hijab.. the dress code is enough in my opinion women must decide herself if she wants to start it or not..

elsewhere you will see soo much hate only for a hijab.. and when they get out of iran you will se all of them in skinny clothes, with the shortest mini skirts.. thats not how its supposed to happen

Sister I completely agree that it should not be by force. 

But that's something political. 

The major element through which western dominance exists is the cultural dominance. It comes by changing the mindsets and westernizing the people. This is a common problem in all the east except countries like Iran and China. 

So, the primary reason for Hijab in Iran is cultural defense. If such rules won't exist then through social media and other mediums, west would intrude and chang the entire way of living of the society. 

Now, how much it snatches the 'freedom' of people is just something we cannot argue on. Because Western media is quite good at lying and creating a mess. 

Most of what we get through media is a lie. 

I saw an interview of a journalist on this who actually went to Iran to work for an NGO. She exposed a lot of MSM lies. I am just unable t OK find it right noe. I will see though where it is and inform you

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Forcing religion usually backfires; forcing namaz, roza, hajj, zakat, khums etc backfires. Forcing Hijab backfires.

Doesn't change the fact that these acts are wajib. There is no need to defend their lack of practice, or even try to defend them. Honestly speaking, a lot of women in my extended family, my classmates etc don't observe it; in that vein they don't even pray.

Doesn't change the fact that these are haram actions. Halal is halal, haram is haram; the end. A believer shouldn't even pretend to try to twist halal/haram, just because people close to them are involved. In the end what matter's is submission to Allah's Will.

Let's get back to the discussion on Imam Mahdi (a.j).

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5 hours ago, F.M said:

can you be more specific please..

The translation you quote does not conform well. Within your that translation,

what it has as "desire to commit excesses" is actually 'envy.'

Try corpus.quran which is a good way to cross check translations.

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44 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

I have seen all these. They are not proof of the following,

Divine prophetic order in public, to the public, informing the public that every woman must wear veil on head in public. Neither is there a commandment for this for muslimat, non muslimat, free or bondwomen.

Kindly get me such a public legislation, including supposed consequences for women who do not follow such order.

I doubt that you will find this order, sorry brother but most everybody beats around the Bush with this.

Either the prophet made such a public proclamation like Mr. Khomeini, or he didn't,.

Let us be on the straight path and address this in a straight way, none of the hadiths above do so.

Salaam brother,

So out of all those hadith none of them show that head covering should be done by a woman? Not even the Sunni Hadith which is clear-cut? Does it have to be a public announcement like Ghadeer Khumm? If the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) or any of the Imams ((عليه السلام)) told someone in a hadith that except face and hands everything of a woman (general sense) should be covered shouldn’t that be enough for us to follow his order? I remember brother @Ibn al-Hussain mentioning that it is possible or there is room for someone to argue that it is mustahab to cover the head portion of the hijab rather than wajib (I think this is your main issue).

For me the evidence for full hijab suffices. All of these madhabs: hanbali, Ja’fari, hanafi, Maliki are unanimous on this issue (that the awrah of a woman is he whole body except face & hands). Even as sister @F.M pointed out other orthodox traditions have the same concept of covering the head and body.

46 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

Public proclamation by prophet. Is there such a hadith? If yes, get it. If no, then admit it.

Thanks 

For this specific question I will defer to a more knowledgeable brother: @Abu Hadi


Just to make it so we keep the thread relevant, as far as I have heard we do have traditions saying the Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) will kill thousands of scholars (tells us we should not blind follow scholars, but at the same time observe moderation and not move in the direction of akhbarism, at least not yet). We also know the spirit of Islam will have withered away, the hearts will have become wretched but the mosques will be beautiful, the Qur’an will be seen as some old book, people within the Ummah will be drinking intoxicants and call it by other names.
 

I believe Muslims will move towards the direction of liberalism and atheism espoused by the west rather than a move towards conservatism and traditionalism. Just look at the sheer number of Muslims going to LGBTQ rallies, supporting LGBTQ marriages. Little did they know our Prophet (sawa) and Imams (عليه السلام) foretold the prevalence of homosexual acts and even homosexual marriage (acc to Hamza Yusuf) as a sign of the times. Look at some scholars even advocating that people should be allowed to have the freedom to insult our beloved Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Look how Muslims belittle the salah and don’t pray on time. The Quran is being treated as only a musical instrument and the contents are not examined to the depth that we should. Chess and gambling is everywhere. Women are clothed and unclothed at the same time. Mothers are giving birth to their masters and children are becoming aggressive. Men are imitating women and women are imitating men (we humans are NOT androgynous and it is beautiful that way).
 

As Seyyed Hossein Nasr put it, the forms which have done some of the most damage in our time include “Freemasonry, Liberalism, Nihilism, Capitalism, Socialism, Marxism, Imperialism, Anarchism, Modernism and the New Age”. The emphasis nowadays is so much on human freedom and we have forgotten God. As Nietzsche put it, God is dead. If someone insults the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) no one cares but if someone is a racist people go wild. So man has been placed at the “Qalb” (heart) of society. Love for all that is higher is no longer there. Materialism has become the prevalent worldview.

Many of these signs have been prophecies here: https://www.al-islam.org/day-of-judgement-sayyid-akhtar-rizvi/part-3-some-signs-day-resurrection

So on this topic of hijab, there does not seem to be any agenda to pervert the true teachings of Islam . There may be room of discussion about the leniency of some of our scholars in other topics like music (the prevalence of female singers and musical instruments a sign of the times) or usury or mingling with the non-Mahrams or the permissibility voting in the elections of two Taghut parties. Nonetheless, I don’t consider myself anywhere near the level to have a discussion examining the laws of our scholars and their legitimacy, as that requires thorough knowledge of Ilm-ul-rijal as well as the principles of fiqh.

May Allah bless you.

 

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11 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

Forcing religion usually backfires; forcing namaz, roza, hajj, zakat, khums etc backfires. Forcing Hijab backfires.

Doesn't change the fact that these acts are wajib. There is no need to defend their lack of practice, or even try to defend them. Honestly speaking, a lot of women in my extended family, my classmates etc don't observe it; in that vein they don't even pray.

Doesn't change the fact that these are haram actions. Halal is halal, haram is haram; the end. A believer shouldn't even pretend to try to twist halal/haram, just because people close to them are involved. In the end what matter's is submission to Allah's Will.

Let's get back to the discussion on Imam Mahdi (a.j).

Fact? Get me a single hadith where the prophet said it is wajib. 

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8 minutes ago, lissenma said:

agree. thread went another direction for a while.

or please start a new thread on the purposed topic

I think it is relevant, because it shows how during the time of imam mahdi people will deviate from the sunnah, and make up rules without base of sunnah.

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31 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

Dictionaries by themselves without direct proof from quran and hadiths have zero authority. Where is ahl bayt tafsir of this word? Where is quranic clarification of this word? Actually there is none related to head or hair 

You denying the dictionary?? Ok fine. 

34 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

Ulil amr and jurists need to back up their every statement with quran and hadiths, or else they don't represent islam, but satan instead. There is no blind following of anybody. That is why this discussion started, as we have clear narrations about jurists in the end times. The jurists will be imam mahdis first and biggest enemies, and he will punish them for it and massacre them, and humiliate and expose their hypocrisy in sha Allah. Those are the hadiths talking, not me. Those hadiths really exist. So my advice is to not follow or support any of them blindly. With the Internet now there won't be an excuse anymore.  Quran and hadiths are readily available in matter of seconds by moving a finger! 

 

Quote

 

1. The hadith which is well-known among the fuqaha as the tawqi‘ ash-sharif [noble signed decree]. This hadith has been mentioned by the great and outstanding Shi‘ah scholar [‘alim], the late Shaykh as-Saduq9 in his book, Ikmal ad-Din.10 This signed decree is actually a reply to the letter of Ishaq ibn Ya‘qub written by Haḍrat Wali al-‘Asr, the Imam of the Age (‘a). In the said letter Ishaq ibn Ya‘qub posed questions to the Imam (‘a) one of which is: “What do we have to do in case of occurring social problems [al-hawadith al-waqi‘ah] during the period of occultation?” In reply to this question, the Imam (‘a) said:

وَ أَمَّا ٱلْحَوَادِثُ ٱلْوَاقِعَةِ فَارْجِعُوا فِيهَا إِلىٰ رُوَاةِ حَدِيثُنَا فَإِنَّهُمْ حُجَّتِي عَلَيكُمْ وَ أَنَا حُجَّةُ اللهِ عَلَيهِمْ.

“In case of occurring social problems, refer for guidance to those who relate from us, for they are my argument [hujjah] against you, and I am Allah’s argument against them.”
 

2. The other hadith that may be cited for proving wilayat al-faqih is a hadith known as the maqbulah of ‘Umar ibn Hanzalah. In this hadith, stating the duty of the people concerning solving disputes and turning for guidance to a competent authority who rules over the Muslims, Imam as-Sadiq (‘a) says:

مَنْ كَانَ مِنْكُمْ قَدْ رَوىٰ حَدِيثُنَا وَ نَظَرَ في حَلاَلِنَا وَ حَرَامِنَا وَ عَرَفَ أَحْكَامَنَا فَلْيَرْضُوا بِهِ حَكَمًا فَإِنّي قَدْ جَعَلْتُهُ عَلَيْكُمْ حَاكِمًا فَإِذَا حَكَمَ بِحُكْمِنَا فَلَمْ يَقْبَلْهُ مِنْهُ فَإِنَّمَا إِسْتَخَفَّ بِحُكْمِ اللهِ وَ عَلَيْنَا رَدَّ وَ الرَّادُّ عَلَيْنَا كَالرَّادَّ عَلىٰ حَدِّ الشِّرْكِ بِاللهِ.

“If there is a person among you who narrates from us, is versed in the lawful and the unlawful, and is well acquainted with our laws and ordinances, accept him as judge and arbiter, for I have appointed him as a ruler over you. So, if he rules according to our law and you reject his ruling, you will belittle Allah’s law and oppose us, and to oppose us means to oppose Allah, and opposing Him is tantamount to associating partners with Him.”

 

 
 
A faqih has a legal authority over us. And it's not something blindly followed. Their appointment is from the ahlulbayt (عليه السلام). the criterion is that it should be a Faqih and should hold all the legal precedent to establish the law. 
Hijab is a law and if a Faqih puts it in defence of the Islamic society on all the people, that's not wrong. 
 
I disagree with you. Though, you can carry on with your opinion. And it is really extreme to say that someone like Ayatullah Khamenei represents Satan (Astaghfirullah), you should atleast mind your words in a simple debate. 
 
Also, I see the present and past before the future. Quranists and Akhbaris are clearly deviated as we can see. So, may Allah guide you.
 
@F.M Sorry for making it lengthy. This was the last off-topic post. I won't reply on this now. 
Discussion can get back to where it was.
 
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4 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

show that head covering should be done by a woman? Not even the Sunni Hadith which is clear-cut? Does it have to be a public announcement like Ghadeer Khumm?

 

walaikum salaam brother,

Can you get that clear cut hadith please. So to you the prophet didn't say in private or public that all women must wear it why? Taqya?

 

7 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Nonetheless, I don’t consider myself anywhere near the level to have a discussion examining the laws of our scholars and their legitimacy, as that requires thorough knowledge of Ilm-ul-rijal as well as the principles of fiqh.

You need quran and hadiths. Now with search engines we are finally free of the monopoly of scholars. We can cross check ourselves, and it is not complicated. 

The question is:

Did the prophet order it to all women? No! If it was seriously such a clear cut and vital thing, he would have said it to everybody, like all other countless proclamations he did. The same goes for the quran. 

I like what you said about the world analysis, but there is also pretending to be religious and nifaq/hypocrisy,  which occupies the lowest level of hell. 

Thank you for your kind words dear brother 

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5 hours ago, Allah Seeker said:

@hasanhhwhy do you always refer to Noah (عليه السلام)? 

l have been asked this only once before on S.C.

Personal decision for this reason. lf you say/write "God of lbrahim -(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).' then for most people of the World they consider it an "eastern Mediterranean thing', Jews vs. Arabs and so forth. Yet, by writing/saying "the God of Noah (عليه السلام)." l use Quran in this way: Ayats 69:11-12.

Who hears the story of Noah -(عليه السلام). remembers it. And, there is the "this directly involves me" -in the ancestral sense.

As such, this is difficult to dismiss by retelling other stories or excusing by political conflict.

Then the 13th Ayat and such.

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5 hours ago, Zainuu said:

But their are many people in the world, who don't have enough time to validate hadith or get into this research. People have their own work and I think it is fine. 

l understand this and will agree for other subjects. Even editorials in a paper fulfill this function.

BUT: What should be most important to you?

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1 minute ago, hasanhh said:

BUT: What should be most important to you?

Point is not about importance. Point is about experty. 

I have 13 volumes of Bihar here. But I don't know the right and wrong about hadith. 

Say I want to check on my prayers. That what should I do if I am in a journey. Suppose I don't follow any scholar or I am doubtful about them. 

For how many such issues will I search that huge pile of Bihar ul Anwar and get a narration. Then, check whether it is right or not??

My point is that you don't need to get a degree in medical if you are sick and want to get well soon. :hahaha:

And I am not denying the importance. Follow the scholars in a wise manner. Done. 

there will be many scholars against the Imam but every scholar will not be against the Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف).

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2 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

denying the dictionary?? Ok fine

Dictionary could be written by anybody. If there is no islamic source to the defintion, then it doesn't have islamic authority. This part you posted does not have reference to quran or ahadeeth.

4 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

In case of occurring social problems, refer for guidance to those who relate from us, for they are my argument [hujjah] against you, and I am Allah’s argument against them.”

Thats the whole point. You follow dictionaries and scholars even if they don't "refer to us". I asked for one hadith. And if you copy paste it from any scholar, then that is fine.

 

6 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

faqih has a legal authority over us.

which faqih? Not the one who didn't mention the quran and hadiths. Obviously most fuqaha are going to hell, according to the 73 sects hadiths, so just being a so-called faqih does not mean much. The faqih who is true, is one who proves everything from the thaqalayn directly. 

 

8 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

Hijab is a law and if a Faqih puts it in defence of the Islamic society on all the people, that's not wrong. 

What if faqih is a hell bound hypocrite liar? Or if he is simply wrong? Faqih has zero authority without clear and solid proof. 

 

9 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

And it is really extreme to say that someone like Ayatullah Khamenei represents Satan (Astaghfirullah), you should atleast mind your words in a simple debate. 

In reference to representing the devil I did not mention anybody specifically. You invented this connection! I said any scholar who makes up rules without a base represents the devil. And imam khamenei is not perfect, but even he or me - if we make a mistake- it can be traced to the devil.

Making up rules beyond the bound of the sunnah is from the devil. And the people who knowingly do this will pay, in sha allah a terrible price, and that is part of the mahdi story. He will kill scholars, so I dont know how anybody can say that scholars have authority over us because they are scholars. Not the most intelligent thing in my opinion.

May God guide to the truth all who are slaves to the Truth, and don't worship scholars 

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11 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

l have been asked this only once before on S.C.

Personal decision for this reason. lf you say/write "God of lbrahim -(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).' then for most people of the World they consider it an "eastern Mediterranean thing', Jews vs. Arabs and so forth. Yet, by writing/saying "the God of Noah (عليه السلام)." l use Quran in this way: Ayats 69:11-12.

Who hears the story of Noah -(عليه السلام). remembers it. And, there is the "this directly involves me" -in the ancestral sense.

As such, this is difficult to dismiss by retelling other stories or excusing by political conflict.

Then the 13th Ayat and such.

saying that is nothing wrong, Noah (عليه السلام) was a great man, and among the highest of prophets.  He is all of our grandfather,  I was just curious. May Allah resurrect you with him in peace and blessing dear brother 

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42 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

Let's get back to the discussion on Imam Mahdi (a.j).

agree!!

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1 minute ago, Allah Seeker said:

what makes you guys so sure that your scholars are on the right path in this day and age, without having to refer directly to proofs? Every sect thinks their scholar are the only right ones :D

Brother. You are right. Thanks for enlightening. 

All the scholars since 1400 years Shia and Sunni altogether, the dictionary writers; the arabic speakers all somehow took it wrong.

They all plotted to fool us. 

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29 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

Did the prophet order it to all women?

Yes brother check the hadiths I posted it is for “women” not just one specific woman... to me the hadiths I posted are clear, the two of them say except face and feet the whole body needs to be covered

Edited by 313_Waiter
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8 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

what makes you guys so sure that your scholars are on the right path in this day and age, without having to refer directly to proofs? Every sect thinks their scholar are the only right ones :D

i heared waaaay to many scholars will get punished by imam mahdi soo... i kind of became extra allert.. and yes some sholars are taking stuff to a whole next level

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2 minutes ago, F.M said:

i heared waaaay to many scholars will get punished by imam mahdi soo... i kind of became extra allert.. and yes some sholars are taking stuff to a whole next level

to be ready for the imam is to be alert and question every fatwa and statement of every scholar. I dont know how people can follow scholars blindly especially after 1200 years without direct leadership. 

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4 hours ago, Allah Seeker said:

I dont know. I get suspicious sometimes as there is a zio-satanic trend to turn the whole non jew world into a "noahide" religion, which has little to do with nuh (عليه السلام) I hope brother @hasanhhisn't part of this agenda

lz ain't.

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10 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

Brother. You are right. Thanks for enlightening. 

All the scholars since 1400 years Shia and Sunni altogether, the dictionary writers; the arabic speakers all somehow took it wrong.

They all plotted to fool us. 

If there's no proof then yes they are wrong. Just like all christian scholars are wrong about son of god. 

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3 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

If she were created from an external part, she would have been allowed, like men, to go out without Hijab (veil).

Brother I need to see this one in Arabic, as I've never seen the use of the word hijab (in reference to clothes ) in islamic texts, that would be a first.

Ok I read the suni hadiths and I remember it now. How can it be true if the prophet did not proclaim it in public? Would he carry the burden of all women doing something wrong? He could therefore not have said that in a general sense, but maybe only for this person.

There is no proof of the prophet saying to his ummah that it is compulsory. That is enough evidence 

Edited by Allah Seeker
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