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In the Name of God بسم الله

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1 hour ago, 313_Waiter said:

Salaam I think God would have spoke directly to the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) since he is the greatest Prophet ((عليه السلام)). But by directly it is not possible since God has to create the voice and the voice is not God so I think it might have been in Imam Ali ((عليه السلام))’s voice on Mi’raj from what I have heard on the pulpit.

 

Yes I agree that you cannot have Allah’s knowledge as His knowledge is unlimited and includes the knowledge of creation. But if it is knowledge except the knowledge of creation and except the knowledge of the hour then I don’t see the Shirk as some hadiths indicate that the Aimmah ((عليه السلام)) have knowledge of pretty much everything that will happen up to the Day of Judgment, such opinions have seemed to popularise in the mainstream. I think this was one of the reasons Daniel Haqiqatjou left Shia Islam. Other scholars say that it is Ghulu. I don’t see the shirk if it is “finite” knowledge and there is an element of contingency on the Creator every moment that one has that knowledge.

Well the quran is clear that the prophets don't know the unseen and every detail of anything 

Like 7,188

And if I knew the unseen, I could have acquired much wealth, and no harm would have touched me. I am not except a warner and a bringer of good tidings to a people who believe."

They can not predict everything as is shown above. 

To me prophets and imams are much more normal than to the mainstream shia. Fallible and simply better than others in front of God. I am not expecting the likes of jesus to be anything all-knowing, except to some extent only, and very limited. 

In my opinion most humans worship their idols, regardless of whom they may be. Sometimes a soccer star, other times a movie star, or a president, maybe a person they 'loved and want to marry, and of course people love to worship saints and prophets. Its an old trick by the devil to make people love humans too much, if he can't defame them. So you'll find people either loving the likes of imam Ali too much, or too little. Very few are among the people of the middle. This is my opinion. So I dont mind being the only person in a billion who thinks this way. I want to be better than all those prophets and imams, and see nothing wrong with this competition. To me they are just a bunch of racers towards good and competing for ranks of God. Any human can pray for any knowledge they want, just like the imams. If you pray for something it will happen, regardless of who you are, prophets are just example and informants. Messengers. But they are mere humans, which is why many people reject them. Even the quran mentions how people reject them because they are like them and from among them. I expect jesus to be a totally normal guy. His normality is humbleness and the one who will have a fake grandeur around him will be the dajjals. I would go as far as saying that the normality of those saintly people s what makes them saints. Simple, modest, humble people who are aware of their weaknesses and shortcomings more than others. They repent more for their mistakes. In my case I disagree with both suni and shia image of holy people, and feel they almost all worship humans.

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indeed!!!  the zionists they now really well the are wrong.. but still they chose to follow their satanic belief, same goes with salafism,wahabism, and many more people..... they arent just

That's just how it is sometimes... Don't take it to heart though... 

LOTS of people are stressing and panicking that the antichrist is closer to us than we tought! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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17 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

Thanks for those links. I believe in some of what is said, and not in other things. Am not sure exactly what your point is, maybe you can say it in your own words brother? 

Basically about the 73 sects I’m saying that most people are not part of the “73 sects” categorisation as per the hadith in the “purifiedhousehold” link. Also, I agree with Imam Khomeini that most people today are not culpable or blameable and so will naturally not perish.

 

18 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

To me it is simple. Most people who claim to be Muslim are part of a group that actually is the opposite. 

This reminded me of the esoteric lecture by Sheikh Sekaleshfar on how Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu are all only labels and that people could be raised as different religions in the Day of Resurrections (e.g. a “Christian” by name can be raised a Muslim in some circumstances).

See: 

 

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2 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Basically about the 73 sects I’m saying that most people are not part of the “73 sects” categorisation as per the hadith in the “purifiedhousehold” link. Also, I agree with Imam Khomeini that most people today are not culpable or blameable and so will naturally not perish

Can you explain the evidence for this? I didn't understand it. I would never judge peoples hearts myself so definitively without at least referring to evidence from the books. The hadith is quite clear and so is the quran talking about most people being stupid.  

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7 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

Well the quran is clear that the prophets don't know the unseen and every detail of anything

Salaam yes but if one was to reconcile those hadiths which say they know a finite amount of things up until the day of judgement or the tafsir of al Qummi of the following verse then perhaps we would have to say all this is al ilmul kitāb and not al ilmul ghayb.

Quote
Indeed it is We who revive the dead and write what they have sent ahead1 and their effects [which they left behind],2 and We have figured everything in a manifest Imam.3 (36:12)

When it comes to ilmul ghayb I recall a tradition that says they can access it at will.

12 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

In my case I disagree with both suni and shia image of holy people, and feel they almost all worship humans.

I suppose it comes down to ones understanding of the relationship of the creator and creation. Right now, our message is being transmitted through the will and power of Allah, our heart is palpitating through His will, everything is occurring with His will. Jesus ((عليه السلام)) revived the dead and gave life to birds made of clay through His will and power. That being said, one cannot ascribe Omni- attributes to any creation, one can’t be All Powerful, or All Knowing. On the other hand, if it is finite knowledge and does not include knowledge of creation, or of the hour, I don’t think it’s shirk.

When it comes to the miracles that Imam Mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) will perform, I’ve heard of this hadith but don’t know its authenticity (it’d be cool if it’s true tho, what an experience!!!):

Quote

There is no miracle from the miracles of the Prophets and their successors other than that which God Almighty will make similar to it evident by the hands of our Qa’im (Mahdi, AS) so that the proofs will become complete upon the enemies”. Ithbat al-Hoda bin Nusus wa al-Mu’jizat, Volume 5, Page 328.

Some other miracles are in this book (havent read them yet):

https://www.al-islam.org/an-overview-of-mahdi-s-government-najimuddin-tabasi/leader-uprising#his-miracles

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11 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

This reminded me of the esoteric lecture by Sheikh Sekaleshfar on how Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu are all only labels and that people could be raised as different religions in the Day of Resurrections (e.g. a “Christian” by name can be raised a Muslim in some circumstances).

Of course that is true. Maybe we can discuss it further in this thread?

It says the ummah was divided after the prophet into 73. So it is very vague, but the message is clear to me that the so-called Muslims in general are mostly going to hell, and that includes the shia of the ummah. It is quite clear to me personally anyway, without going into details or giving specific examples. I will check out the video insha allah. Thanks and wil let you know what my thoughts are about it 

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21 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

Well the quran is clear that the prophets don't know the unseen and every detail of anything

Salaam yes but if one was to reconcile those hadiths which say they know a finite amount of things up until the day of judgement or the tafsir of al Qummi of the following verse then perhaps we would have to say all this is al ilmul kitāb and not al ilmul ghayb.

Quote
Indeed it is We who revive the dead and write what they have sent ahead1 and their effects [which they left behind],2 and We have figured everything in a manifest Imam.3 (36:12)

When it comes to ilmul ghayb I recall a tradition that says they can access it at will.

21 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

In my case I disagree with both suni and shia image of holy people, and feel they almost all worship humans.

I suppose it comes down to ones understanding of the relationship of the creator and creation. Right now, our message is being transmitted through the will and power of Allah, our heart is palpitating through His will, everything is occurring with His will. Jesus ((عليه السلام)) revived the dead and gave life to birds made of clay through His will and power. That being said, one cannot ascribe Omni- attributes to any creation, one can’t be All Powerful, or All Knowing. On the other hand, if it is finite knowledge and does not include knowledge of creation, or of the hour, I don’t think it’s shirk.

When it comes to the miracles that Imam Mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) will perform, I’ve heard of this hadith but don’t know its authenticity (it’d be cool if it’s true tho, what an experience!!!):

Quote

There is no miracle from the miracles of the Prophets and their successors other than that which God Almighty will make similar to it evident by the hands of our Qa’im (Mahdi, AS) so that the proofs will become complete upon the enemies”. Ithbat al-Hoda bin Nusus wa al-Mu’jizat, Volume 5, Page 328.

Some other miracles are in this book (havent read them yet):

https://www.al-islam.org/an-overview-of-mahdi-s-government-najimuddin-tabasi/leader-uprising#his-miracles

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3 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

It says the ummah was divided after the prophet into 73. So it is very vague, but the message is clear to me that the so-called Muslims in general are mostly going to hell, and that includes the shia of the ummah. It is quite clear to me personally anyway, without going into details or giving specific examples. I will check out the video insha allah. Thanks and wil let you know what my thoughts are about it 

Thanks, this is the hadith and many other hadiths and evidence provided to show that most of Muslims is not part of the 73 sects and will be judged separately:

76F7B76A-5A6A-4790-A25D-496C66EABC3C.jpeg.152776fda9ac915ded1b244e175767b4.jpegSubhanallah! What a merciful religion we have!!

@Allah Seeker

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10 hours ago, Allah Seeker said:

bani israel having their souls transferred into bodies of pigs and apes

This isn't the migration of souls. This is the transformation of a body already containing a soul. 

In your view why do the ulama call belief in reincarnation kufr? Do they have any daleel or is it conjecture? Do you think there is any belief in reincarnation which is unislamic?

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8 hours ago, F.M said:

i can write a looooong list for only what i have seen , how the youth are the ones standing against injustice EVEN BETTER THAN THE PREVIOUS GENERATIONS!! (but i am not wasting my time on people who are disrespecting , i need to study, work etc) sooo better stop underestimate them, they dooooo much better job than the disguisting generations before!! ALSO STOP DISMOTIVATING THEM..(in my opinion my allah curse all people who try to dismotivate the youth to not ACCOMPLISH THEIR ULTIMATE GOAL (JUSTICE)

the previous generations have messed up waaaaaay to many things (again i can make a whole list full of their stupidity). some: Environmental pollution,GMO-food, created WARS in many countries, they were EGOISTS, hypocrites, selfish  and many more disguisting things.. 

 

Earlier you said the Imam {a} didn't come in the past because people didn't deserve it and didn't want progress. However you believe that the youth of today are better than those people in the past. How can you justify this? What information did you use to compare the youth of today to the youth of the past?

Do you think these youth will grow up and be just as good as they are now? Will the youth of the next generation be as the good as the youth of today?

What do the ahadith say about the number of followers that the Imam {a} will have? Do you think that the world of today can produce such a number of followers?

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3 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Salaam yes but if one was to reconcile those hadiths which say they know a finite amount of things up until the day of judgement or the tafsir of al Qummi of the following verse then perhaps we would have to say all this is al ilmul kitāb and not al ilmul ghayb.

walaikum salaam  

That would include every human being who has limited knowledge. We all have finite knowledge or?

4 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

When it comes to ilmul ghayb I recall a tradition that says they can access it at will.

not according to the clear verses of the quran. Not anything and everything. They can ask for it, but then again so can all of us.

 

5 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

suppose it comes down to ones understanding of the relationship of the creator and creation. Right now, our message is being transmitted through the will and power of Allah, our heart is palpitating through His will, everything is occurring with His will. Jesus ((عليه السلام)) revived the dead and gave life to birds made of clay through His will and power. That being said, one cannot ascribe Omni- attributes to any creation, one can’t be All Powerful, or All Knowing. On the other hand, if it is finite knowledge and does not include knowledge of creation, or of the hour, I don’t think it’s shirk.

When it comes to the miracles that Imam Mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) will perform, I’ve heard of this hadith but don’t know its authenticity (it’d be cool if it’s true tho, what an experience!!!):

that sounds true to me, and can apply to you, me and any reader here. We all can perform things that are great through the will of God, nice language use btw masha Allah. I like it!

Yes any miracle happening to mahdi and his followers will probably  be a result of answered prayers, I believe. Just like the miracles of jesus you mentioned. In front of God everything and nothing is a miracle, we should see everyhing as a miracle. The more we have faith, the more we see simple things as miracles as described in the quran. Sunsets,  clouds, couples,  rain, plants, sustenance etc. I strive to be like that. All is a miracle equally . What makes me most excited is the simple mechanism of asking Allah for help, and then receiving it. Evrything including our bodies, feelings, and the colors and designs around us of everything is for me no less impressive than splitting the sea, or bringing back the dead. At least I try to be like that. !ife is a miracle. 

The miracles of the mahdi, us as shia should start praying for it now

32 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

thank you dear brother and im enjoying this conversation very much! I will read this one right now, even before the video you posted in sha Allah. Important is to me that all those miracles are purely from Allah, and us all are just observers, witnesses, vessels, and tools for God. Even when the mumin kills the enemies of God, it is actually God killing. According to quran and bhagavad gita too. They are already dead. We are just sending them home to their eternal abode of perpetual punishment. We need to ALWAYS pray for God to protect us from the hell fires, as we could all fall into it. There is always the chance. 

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37 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

I skimmed it and sounds interesting. I guess time will tell,  but I personally dont need these miracles to believe in someone being in rank of mahdi or issa. I won't be like "these miracles didnt haoppen, so it can't be him"

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34 minutes ago, Muhammed Ali said:

This isn't the migration of souls. This is the transformation of a body already containing a soul. 

In your view why do the ulama call belief in reincarnation kufr? Do they have any daleel or is it conjecture? Do you think there is any belief in reincarnation which is unislamic?

I dont consider takfiris as uluma. I see them as lost souls who will go to hell.

But I'd be interested to hear their evidence nonetheless. But I wouldn't call someone a kafir myself if they disagree on something like this. That's ridiculous and hateful! And ironically the takfiri is a Kafir in my opinion.

Fact is we will all be raised in new bodies to be judged , and thay is a reincarnation. Rajaa is at least one extra one. If you got proof that people were turned into pigs Disney abracadabra style let me know. I'd be interested to see.

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43 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Thanks, this is the hadith and many other hadiths and evidence provided to show that most of Muslims is not part of the 73 sects and will be judged separately:

 

45 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Thanks, this is the hadith and many other hadiths and evidence provided to show that most of Muslims is not part of the 73 sects and will be judged separately:

76F7B76A-5A6A-4790-A25D-496C66EABC3C.jpeg.152776fda9ac915ded1b244e175767b4.jpegSubhanallah! What a merciful religion we have!!

@Allah Seeker

Walaikum salaam 

This hadith is not cancelling out the ummah being divided as far as I see. If it is reliable, then it could be seen as a description of the the 72 vs. 1, or? Did I miss the point?

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1 hour ago, 313_Waiter said:

 

Salaam I'm watching it now. He is basically saying what he believes it takes to be in the saved group that goes to paradise. But his way contradicts the hadith because he says you can be Muslim reincarnated as a Christian in the final day, as if that is something bad, when the hadith says likewise there are Christians going to paradise. Jews and Christians can go to paradise, while most Muslims and shia are going to burn. I dont like this guy. 

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15 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

walaikum salaam  

That would include every human being who has limited knowledge. We all have finite knowledge or?

51 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

I suppose in an Irfani sense all knowledge that any creation has is a manifestation the Al Aleem (a manifestation that is not like Him, does not resemble Him, not even close to Him, from Him, but not Him). So sort of like the verse you quoted where Allah killed the people and not the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

17 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

not according to the clear verses of the quran. Not anything and everything. They can ask for it, but then again so can all of us

By “at will” I mean this:

Quote

Ammar al-Sabati said: I asked Abu Abdillah (Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq) concerning if Imam knows al-Ghayb (Unseen). He replied: "No, but when he wishes to know something, Allah causes him to know that.”(Usul al-Kafi, Kitab al- Hujjah, Tradition #666 - sorry for this number)

 

I suppose people who agree with above traditions quote verses like this:

Quote

Knower of the Unseen, He does not disclose His Unseen to anyone, except to an apostle He approves of. Then He dispatchesa sentinel before and behind him so that He may ascertainthat they have communicatedthe messages of their Lord,and He comprehends all that is with them,and He keeps count of all things. (72: 26-28)

I have opened this discussion before right here: 

 

we can continue this interesting discussion there inshaAllah  if u wish.

25 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

The more we have faith, the more we see simple things as miracles as described in the quran. Sunsets,  clouds, couples,  rain, plants, sustenance etc. I strive to be like that

InshaAllah brother, I too wish to reach this level. 

 

25 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

thank you dear brother and im enjoying this conversation very much

Me too :) 

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1 minute ago, Allah Seeker said:

while most Muslims and shia are going to burn

Where does he say that? (Sorry been ages since I watched that vid)

1 minute ago, Allah Seeker said:

Jews and Christians can go to paradise

I guess maybe in his Irfani sense the Jews and Christians talked about in the verse 2:62 is referring to those who followed their respective messengers. Maybe under his lens the Jews and Christians of today, if they submit to Allah they could be raised as muslims.  Allahu A’lam

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17 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

This hadith is not cancelling out the ummah being divided as far as I see. If it is reliable, then it could be seen as a description of the the 72 vs. 1, or? Did I miss the point?

Basically what I’m saying is that paradise is not for a bunch of people which is shown by the other link above (“salvation of nonshias”).  I think a lot of Muslims interpret it like this, sorry if I misconstrued that you interpret it like this. That hadith is saying that most people will be judged separately based on their deeds (of course Allah’s mercy is a factor), they don’t belong to the 72 (direct to hell) and they don’t belong to the 1 (direct to heaven).

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1 minute ago, 313_Waiter said:

Ammar al-Sabati said: I asked Abu Abdillah (Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq) concerning if Imam knows al-Ghayb (Unseen). He replied: "No, but when he wishes to know something, Allah causes him to know that.”(Usul al-Kafi, Kitab al- Hujjah, Tradition #666 - sorry for this number)

Looool . I was going to say ... but anyway I believe this applies to all humans and jinn without exception. If you ask God for knowledge,  then you will get it eventually 

 

5 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

suppose in an Irfani sense all knowledge that any creation has is a manifestation the Al Aleem (a manifestation that is not like Him, does not resemble Him, not even close to Him, from Him, but not Him). So sort of like the verse you quoted where Allah killed the people and not the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

Yup 

6 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

InshaAllah brother, I too wish to reach this level.

Let's reach it together brother insha Allah. You pray for me and I pray for you OK? Better than praying for ourselves:)

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1 minute ago, Allah Seeker said:

Let's reach it together brother insha Allah. You pray for me and I pray for you OK? Better than praying for ourselves:)

Ok let’s do it :) 

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4 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Where does he say that? (Sorry been ages since I watched that vid)

not in the video, was referring to the hadith about 12 vs. 1 shia groups 

 

5 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

guess maybe in his Irfani sense the Jews and Christians talked about in the verse 2:62 is referring to those who followed their respective messengers. Maybe under his lens the Jews and Christians of today, if they submit to Allah they could be raised as muslims.  Allahu A’lam

I think you and I both believe there are good and bad jews /Christians/ Muslims/ hindus etc today, or? Only isis and other takfiris like to generalize that all people of any community are good or bad. Or? What do you think? I think its very simple 

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4 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Basically what I’m saying is that paradise is not for a bunch of people which is shown by the other link above (“salvation of nonshias”). That hadith is saying that most people will be judged separately based on their deeds (of course Allah’s mercy is a factor), they don’t belong to the 72 (direct to hell) and they don’t belong to the 1 (direct to heaven). 

I dont see a direct connection between the 2 hadiths in terms of quantity, but only quality. I see a description of who is that one sect versus the rest among the ummah, and the same applies to any ummah that follows a prophet ,

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1 minute ago, Allah Seeker said:

I dont see a direct connection between the 2 hadiths in terms of quantity, but only quality. I see a description of who is that one sect versus the rest among the ummah, and the same applies to any ummah that follows a prophet ,

Yes, but I also feel that even if one is not in that saved sect by label and is in that saved sect by actions then he will be more closer to that saved sect, if you get what I mean. Like some Sunnis follow ahlulbayt’s mannerisms more than some Shias and hold more closer beliefs to them.

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5 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

not in the video, was referring to the hadith about 12 vs. 1 shia groups 

 

Yes so that link isn’t saying most Muslims and Shias are burning but it’s saying the opposite that most aren’t even in this classification

6 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:
13 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

 

I think you and I both believe there are good and bad jews /Christians/ Muslims/ hindus etc today, or? Only isis and other takfiris like to generalize that all people of any community are good or bad. Or? What do you think? I think its very simple 

I agree. But God will have to determine who is good or bad. I believe divine truth may have been given to Hinduism or Taoism or Buddhism, it later would have lost its authenticity. Hinduism also has monotheism in it, and Hindus say everything is a manifestation of Brahman. From the Quran it is clear that shirk= hell, but God also says “we do not punish until we send a messenger”. I also read a hadith that if someone is a polytheist and in separate area “mustadh’af” then he will be tested and told to basically jump in a fire in the hereafter. Here is the hadith (from brother Qa’im):

Quote

A companion asked the Messenger of Allah (s), "Inform me, will Allah punish a person without a proof?"

The Messenger replied, "God forbid."

The companion asked, "So are the children of the polytheists in Paradise or in the Fire?"

The Messenger said, "Allah has more of a right over them.

When Allah gathers the creatures on the Day of Resurrection to cast judgment, He will begin with the children of the polytheists.

He will say to them, 'My male and female servants, who is your Lord, what is your religion, and what are your deeds?'

So they will say, 'O Allah, You are our Lord, You created us, and we created nothing. You caused us to die, and we caused nothing to die. You did not give us a speaking tongue, nor a discerning ear, nor a book that we could read, nor a messenger that we could follow. We do not have knowledge, for You have not taught us.'

So He will say to them, 'My male and female servants, if I were to command you to do something, would you do it?'

So they will say, 'We hear and obey You, O our Lord.'

So Allah will bring a fire called al-Falaq, which is the most severe punishment in Hell, and burns dark black with chains and shackles. Then Allah will order it to blow into the faces of the creatures. The severity of its blow will sever the heavens, obliterate the stars, freeze the seas, shake the mountains, grieve the sight [of the creation], cause the pregnant to miscarry, and cause the children to grey due to its horror on the Day of Resurrection.

Then, Allah will order the children of the polytheists to throw themselves into that Fire. So those whom Allah knows would be good will throw themselves into it, and it will be cool and peaceful for them, just as it was for Abraham [a]. And those whom Allah knows would be wretched will not throw themselves into the fire, so Allah will order the fire to overtake them for abandoning His order, and they will follow their forefathers into Hell."

However, in this internet age or if they are in the middle of the city can they be excused? I agree with Imam Khomeini’s opinion that if they feel faith a) is true and yet fail to investigate it out of negligence / stubbornness then they could be held accountable. But Allah knows best.

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7 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Yes, but I also feel that even if one is not in that saved sect by label and is in that saved sect by actions then he will be more closer to that saved sect, if you get what I mean. Like some Sunnis follow ahlulbayt’s mannerisms more than some Shias and hold more closer beliefs to them.

Totally agree. Only Allah knows who in each ummah/nation is in a saved sect. It is probably random people spread out in all tribes, with maybe some clustering between individuals along family lines rather than cultural. I think that people's labels are rather a cultural heritage rather than a spiritual. Good families teach their kids innately , while some kids get it, and probably most dont. 

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3 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Yes so that link isn’t saying most Muslims and Shias are burning but it’s saying the opposite that most aren’t even in this classification

Personally I see it as simply meaning those who are outwardly in the fold of islam, like yazid for instance. But their hearts are not Muslim, otherwise they wouldn't go to hell. Any true Muslim will be the saved one sect of course.

 

5 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

agree. But God will have to determine who is good or bad. I believe divine truth may have been given to Hinduism or Taoism or Buddhism, it later would have lost its authenticity. Hinduism also has monotheism in it, and Hindus say everything is a manifestation of Brahman. From the Quran it is clear that shirk= hell, but God also says “we do not punish until we send a messenger”. I also read a hadith that if someone is a polytheist and in separate area “mustadh’af” then he will be tested and told to basically jump in a fire in the hereafter. Here is the hadith (from brother Qa’im):

the way I see it is that humanity is divided into nations, depending on which prophet we most closely follow. So the qaim and Allah will judge people according to their own book and imam. The quran indicates the same, that the people will be gathered with their imams for judgment. Yazid will be judged by the quran and the prophet as well as his ahl of course. Imam hussein will be his imam al zaman along with his brother and father ali (عليه السلام) . So he will be considered as part of the ummah. 

I remember reading a hadith of a question to some imam among the 12, of what is the difference between suni and shia (of course those exact words were not used). He said that the differrnce was like the difference between the masjid el haram, and the kaaba. So that shows that both are part of the ummah. 

I firmly believe that many sunis are at heart shia of the current imam, and if they get the chance to, they would support him. Just like there are good people and potential shia everywhere, even among people born into satanic and mushriq families. It is impossible to generalize, but one can hope that one is among the saved few of ones ummah in sha Allah. Its a very scary business. 

15 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

However, in this internet age or if they are in the middle of the city can they be excused? I agree with Imam Khomeini’s opinion that if they feel faith a) is true and yet fail to investigate it out of negligence / stubbornness then they could be held accountable. But Allah knows best.

I think you and imam Khomeini (رضي الله عنه) will agree with me that each and every person is a unique case. In theory this is right of course,  but it is impossible for us to use this information to make verdicts. What counts is the state of our hearts at the point of death. For all I know maybe yazid repented without anyone knowing. Maybe, maybe not, and we should not care. The only care we should have is our destiny,  along with our loved ones, especially and foremost our prophet and those closest to him. We owe him big. Allah al Hakam, the Judge knows best :D

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11 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

For all I know maybe yazid repented without anyone knowing. Maybe, maybe not, and we should not care

Thanks brother, I mostly agree with your post  but on this point, if he sincerely repented (wallahu yaghfiruzzunooba jamee’a), then our la’na on him would no longer reach him and will come back to us; and as we know in ziyarat ashura we curse him and Abu Sufyan and Muawiya. So I think the imams would tell us if these personalities repented. I feel these personalities embody the most evil states one can reach, like Iblis or sufyani or Dajjal. All of them have created their own fire by attaching themselves to their lower selves.

But at the end of the day, and in every case and issue: “Wallahu A’lamu, wa antum la ta’lamoon” (2:216)

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2 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Thanks brother, I mostly agree with your post  but on this point, if he sincerely repented (wallahu yaghfiruzzunooba jamee’a), then our la’na on him would no longer reach him and will come back to us; and as we know in ziyarat ashura we curse him and Abu Sufyan and Muawiya. So I think the imams would tell us if these personalities repented. I feel these personalities embody the most evil states one can reach, like Iblis or sufyani or Dajjal. All of them have created their own fire by attaching themselves to their lower selves.

But at the end of the day, and in every case and issue: “Wallahu A’lamu, wa antum la ta’lamoon” (2:216)

I knew this is a sensitive provocative point. But I have personally reached a point where I dont care if God even forgives iblis, if iblis repented.  I am not the judge at all, I am just saying it is possible for God. Very true what you said I believe, masha Allah

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BTW @313_Waiterthere is a controversial gospel called the apocalypse of Peter , that states that in the end God will forgive EVERYBODY, and nobody will go to hell. The same gospel says that jesus stood laughing as he watched a guy get crucified whom everyone thought was him, making this part in tune with the islamic version of it made to look like he was being crucified, when he wasn't. 

I wouldn't mind everybody getting forgiven, all I care about is that I'm in higher ranks than everybody else in the ranks of God :D

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10 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

I knew this is a sensitive provocative point. But I have personally reached a point where I dont care if God even forgives iblis, if iblis repented.  I am not the judge at all, I am just saying it is possible for God. Very true what you said I believe, masha Allah

Yes, actually I agree with @313_Waiter because Yazid, Muawiya and Abu Sufyan and some more perpetrators are those that  are cursed by name. 

For example, Walid ibn Abdul Malik is not cursed directly. Curse is on the children of Marwan, so you might say that Imam (عليه السلام) might have excluded Walid. But for Yazid, No.

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1 hour ago, Muhammed Ali said:

Earlier you said the Imam {a} didn't come in the past because people didn't deserve it and didn't want progress. However you believe that the youth of today are better than those people in the past. How can you justify this? What information did you use to compare the youth of today to the youth of the past?

yes, the youth of today are much more active and are more busy than the people before.. also this t generation is much different than the previous one.. they didn't had soo much pressure all togeteher, also sining is turned really easy yet they chose to stay clean! the youth of today can easily chose to be on the wrong side, but still they chose to not take that (without anyone teaching them)

the informations I used: from today children i saw how all of them are extreme ambitious to be motivated to change the world into a better place.. as i said i saw it in their drawing, their speeches, their dreams/goals they want to get fulfilled etc..i saw also how lots of pressure are caused by the world and that can be on of the most important causes, why this youth are complete done with injustice and are working to get justice all over the world.

from the past: i simply spoke to my own parents/granparents/great grandparents old patients.. all answers they gave me was that the past was more easy than the present life.. they said there was not much hate, killing, hypocrisy, selfishness and people helped each other closely (they werent soo much focused on the return of jesus or imam al mahdi or even changing the world into a better place because it wasnt needed)... they all say the world from the past compared to the modern living is that life changed drastically (negative way) people turned really greedy and complete opostite as before

one other fact i have seen... which is to me on of the biggest sign, is that i see lately WAAAAAAAY, TO MUCH PATIENTS ESPECIALLY YOUTH  WITH PRESCRIPED: "antidepressants, antipsychotics, medicines against sleeping problems and many more.....tells enough they have way to many pressure of this world.

1 hour ago, Muhammed Ali said:

Do you think these youth will grow up and be just as good as they are now? Will the youth of the next generation be as the good as the youth of today?

if this present youth is keeping their interest to change the world into a better place, then ofcourse their children will grow up like that too.. 

1 hour ago, Muhammed Ali said:

What do the ahadith say about the number of followers that the Imam {a} will have? Do you think that the world of today can produce such a number of followers?

yes for sure they can!! the world turned almost to 8 billion people and day by day lots people are starting to wake up and see more light.. soo yes they are getting more motivated to change the world into a better place.

hadith about worldpopulation in the end of times..which there is also a saying from prophet muhammed sawa himself also written in all other religions, that the world will reach 7. well we are almost to 8

lets not forget that the followers of imam mahdi himself WILL BE YOUTH (SHEBAB=-20-30) the older people will mostly be against him.. also said that yamani will be a young person, and will have lots of people against him including sayeds and older people (because they are laughing upon youth and think youth cant accomplish anything)!!!!!

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13 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

I am not the judge at all, I am just saying it is possible for God.

By antum I mean myself first brother, was just quoting the verse :) 

 

5 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

I wouldn't mind everybody getting forgiven

Ibn arabi (Sufi) and Ibn Taymiyyah (salafi) are said to hold the view that everyone will eventually be forgiven. I don’t mind this view either. We know God’s love is infinitely more than our mothers love. We know when our mom slaps us she wants us to improve, and that her slap serves a teaching and nurturing lesson for us. 

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8 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

there is a controversial gospel called the apocalypse of Peter , that states that in the end God will forgive EVERYBODY, and nobody will go to hell. The same gospel says that jesus stood laughing as he watched a guy get crucified whom everyone thought was him, making this part in tune with the islamic version of it made to look like he was being crucified, when he wasn't. 

I wouldn't mind everybody getting forgiven, all I care about is that I'm in higher ranks than everybody else in the ranks of God :D

there has been a hadith saying that the hell got only created for the enemies of ahlalbayt..

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