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In the Name of God بسم الله

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1 minute ago, Zainuu said:

That's not True. Atleast for the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Jesus (عليه السلام).

That is your opinion. According to mine it is equally true as the prophet not being 100% of anything, like safety from the fires. After all the prophet has fear of God. To people like me Allah alone is 100% sure of anything, and prophets are humans like the rest of us. 

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That's just how it is sometimes... Don't take it to heart though... 

Hoping Imam alayhi salam  comes soon for the betterment of world and for momeenin

Yes it is true even in Sunni books (not exactly this): Sahih Muslim 240: Zirr reported: 'Ali observed: By Him Who split up the seed and created something living, the Apostle (may peace

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8 hours ago, Allah Seeker said:

BTW many jews are expecting two messias, one called bin joseph who would be a secular military leader , and after he gets killed by an army from the north, the second and final messiah would come, the ben David one, who would bring in the golden age, much like our concept of the! Mahdi

But at the end they will stand with the Dajjal only. 

Reason: Because Muslims will be the enemy of Dajjal. And Jews have an impossible hate for the Muslims, which will make them take the side of Dajjal. This is ignorance. 

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Just now, Zainuu said:

But at the end they will stand with the Dajjal only. 

Reason: Because Muslims will be the enemy of Dajjal. And Jews have an impossible hate for the Muslims, which will make them take the side of Dajjal. This is ignorance. 

Not all Jews are bad, and some will join the mahdi. I'm sure u heard of the 72 sects of muslims going to hell? So who are we to judge even if u n me are among the tiny minority of good people?

Followers of moses likewise are mentioned in the hadith as being split into 70 vs. 1 groups. So technically they have a bigger percentage of good people compared to us, if this hadith is true 

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2 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

According to mine it is equally true as the prophet not being 100% of anything, like safety from the fires. After all the prophet has fear of God. To people like me Allah alone is 100% sure of anything, and prophets are humans like the rest of us. 

I am not saying they are 100%.

I am saying that they were told by Allah regarding this before they claimed it. 

As of now, Jesus (عليه السلام) is not on earth. He spoke by the will of Allah in the cradle. 

Allah is 100% but he grants some of that 100% to his Prophets.

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2 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

Not all Jews are bad, and some will join the mahdi. I'm sure u heard of the 72 sects of muslims going to hell? So who are we to judge even if u n me are among the tiny minority of good people?

I definitely didn't mean 'All'. 

And yes, definitely I don't I am not saying 'all muslims'.

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Just now, Zainuu said:

I am not saying they are 100%.

I am saying that they were told by Allah regarding this before they claimed it. 

As of now, Jesus (عليه السلام) is not on earth. He spoke by the will of Allah in the cradle. 

Allah is 100% but he grants some of that 100% to his Prophets.

I dont think Allah spoke to prophets directly except some might argue it happened in isolated cases like moses at the burning tree, and maybe our prophet during the night journey.  But before the prophet met angel Gabriel he definitely get word from God.

I haven't found any evidence that Allah gave any creature 100% knowledge of anything. That is not possible in my books, as God has no partners. 

To me Jesus could very well be on earth right now. And the more time passes, the more is the likelihood. 

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3 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

I definitely didn't mean 'All'. 

And yes, definitely I don't I am not saying 'all muslims'.

The only ones we can control with the will of God is ourselves. It is important for us whether we stand with the right people, and that we recognise the good people, regardless of whom they may be and stand with them.

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3 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

dont think Allah spoke to prophets directly except some might argue it happened in isolated cases like moses at the burning tree, and maybe our prophet during the night journey.  But before the prophet met angel Gabriel he definitely get word from God.

Let me break it down. 

I agree and that's what I said. I said he told (didn't mention the way).

4 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

haven't found any evidence that Allah gave any creature 100% knowledge of anything. That is not possible in my books, as God has no partners. 

I agree again. I didn't say 100%.

5 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

To me Jesus could very well be on earth right now. And the more time passes, the more is the likelihood. 

That's not the case. As Quran says and also the hadith regarding his Arrival.   

He will descend and not appear.

Imam Mehdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) is on the earth. 

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58 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

I believe it is possible that prophet mohamed himself wasn't 100% sure he's a prophet until he met with angel Gabriel the first time.

I dont really think the color of his skin and hair is significant. God might be hiding his identify from himself for his own protection, and to make him appear more normal in front of people.

To me this guy stands out compared to all of mankind as a potential candidate, and I've made sure that he and many of his followers know that. 

How did Nabi Isa {a} forget who he is?

How did end up where he is? Was he born again? Does he have a father? Did he previously die? 

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58 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

That's not the case. As Quran says and also the hadith regarding his Arrival.   

He will descend and not appear.

Imam Mehdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) is on the earth. 

Good we agree on some details at least! Alhamdulilah

However the above- the way I see it - jesus could have already decended onto earth into a new body, and he could be having his descent before meeting the mahdi crew on an airplane. 

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28 minutes ago, Muhammed Ali said:

How did Nabi Isa {a} forget who he is?

How did end up where he is? Was he born again? Does he have a father? Did he previously die? 

Yes everything is possible, maybe he has a father this time round. Reincarnation is supported by islam as you know, in the quran and hadiths, or?

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reincarnation is shown in the quran with some of bani israel having their souls transferred into bodies of pigs and apes, as well as all of us getting reincarnated for the final judgment day, naked in un-circumsized bodies. It is supported in the hadiths clearly with the concept of rajaa or return of people who died or were martyred, and then will join the ranks of the mahdi more than a millenium later.

To me the physical body isn't that important. To me what counts is Allah, and that He gets His Victory. 

BTW,  I read the concept of rajaa also applies to the bad people. 

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2 hours ago, Allah Seeker said:

Yes everything is possible, maybe he has a father this time round. Reincarnation is supported by islam as you know, in the quran and hadiths, or?

i personally don't think that our prophet jesus is getting reaincarnated like that..

also it sounds really weard but there arent real quranic saying that allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) did in fact brought him to heaven, so where is he then?.. its only christianity that beliefs that jesus got to heaven but lets not forget they belief he died elsewhere he would stil wander around on this world (according to them)

i personally think that there is an posibility that prophet isa as, khidr, imam al mahdi..that all 3 walk together on this dunya , but all 3 aren't able to get recognised because they are in a kind of occulation (saved by allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى))

  • its true that we shias also belief in reancarnatins but that is only after we die (some will have different bodies).. or before we entered the world (we were souls, and allah blew us into a body) is also called reancarnation. 
  • but i think there isnt a chance, that prophet isa is getting reancarnated for the 3th time and possibly has a dad etc.. thats more a religion of devism (hindu sect believed in constant reancarnations) than what islam teaches us

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9 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

What progress is there in hand holding?

firstly!! i really think you are someone in his 40s+ because i clealy can see from youre behaviour!! youre totally disrespecting the youth and everyone who is ready to change the world into beter place)

secondly there is progress!! maybe you arent able to seee it BUT I DO!

as a nurse, pharmaceutic technician.. i see daily soo many patients from every age

and i see waaay to many youth  getting diognosed with.. depressions ,insecurities, hoplessnes and many more things...

IF I ASK THE YOUTH TODAY. WHAT THEY WANT TO ACCOMPLISH..all of them answer with full of enthusiasm.. they all want to take part to create a better world just like a supermen kind of person!! ALL OF THEM, are done with the stupidity of the world and want to stay against oppresions.. i see so many times, mashallah how young people volunteer or create their own organisations for charity, or are promoting them while standing outside in the cold even under rain! yet they dont care about it because all of them are focused to change the world for themselves and the next generations!!!

i can write a looooong list for only what i have seen , how the youth are the ones standing against injustice EVEN BETTER THAN THE PREVIOUS GENERATIONS!! (but i am not wasting my time on people who are disrespecting , i need to study, work etc) sooo better stop underestimate them, they dooooo much better job than the disguisting generations before!! ALSO STOP DISMOTIVATING THEM..(in my opinion my allah curse all people who try to dismotivate the youth to not ACCOMPLISH THEIR ULTIMATE GOAL (JUSTICE)

the previous generations have messed up waaaaaay to many things (again i can make a whole list full of their stupidity). some: Environmental pollution,GMO-food, created WARS in many countries, they were EGOISTS, hypocrites, selfish  and many more disguisting things.. 

 

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37 minutes ago, F.M said:

i personally don't think that our prophet jesus is getting reaincarnated like that..

also it sounds really weard but there arent real quranic saying that allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) did in fact brought him to heaven, so where is he then?.. its only christianity that beliefs that jesus got to heaven but lets not forget they belief he died elsewhere he would stil wander around on this world (according to them)

i personally think that there is an posibility that prophet isa as, khidr, imam al mahdi..that all 3 walk together on this dunya , but all 3 aren't able to get recognised because they are in a kind of occulation (saved by allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى))

  • its true that we shias also belief in reancarnatins but that is only after we die (some will have different bodies).. or before we entered the world (we were souls, and allah blew us into a body) is also called reancarnation. 
  • but i think there isnt a chance, that prophet isa is getting reancarnated for the 3th time and possibly has a dad etc.. thats more a religion of devism (hindu sect believed in constant reancarnations) than what islam teaches us

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Yes my view on things is often very far from mainstream Islamic thought (but not against the quran and at least the alternative metaphorical interpretations of things). From what I remember,  the sources say that Allah raised jesus (عليه السلام) to Himself, which sounds identical to martyrdom. Definitely Allah is higher up than earth (again, symbolic possibility because Allah is beyond physical reality of up-and-down), so just as he was raised, he will be lowered to earth again. I agree a lot with Hinduism in a lot of things and am a big fan Arjuna and the Bhagavad-Gita.  So I believe that each of the heavenly religions has hints toward the truth, while all religions have also mistakes in the imagination of their scholars.

Everything is possible for Allah, and maybe jesus comes literally flying on angels wings with the same physical body as 2000 years ago,  but i am open for all possibilities. Personally for me I expect more of a normal reincarnation for all including the mahdi, jesus, khidr,  Elias,  imam hussein, as-hab el kahf, and many more. Actually I believe that all 313 are old souls who had to prove themselves in previous lives as well as this one to get such a privilege. Even the 10,000 and beyond also probably had previous lives. I'm sure that there are more than 313 who prayed to be among the mahdi in the end times. Probably every prophet and imam prayed to be supportive role of the final victory of Allah. So many people waited to be part of it, and according to our hadiths, and even Hindu/vedic philosophy, we get reincarnated where our mind was at the moment of death. Thats why the quran teaches us the all-important dua of "please God let us die as Muslims ". So if all people who waited to be part of the final victory from Adam (عليه السلام) to today,  will be part of the push, then imagine how many people that is. The 313 are just the best of the best of those who waited in previous lives, and who did best performances of patience and perseverance. A bunch of people who have probably been martyred in the best way several times before. It is the ultimate privilege, and that is how I see it. 

In the case of prophet Issa, this would be his second reincarnation after Allah raised him to Himself. Then he will die or be martyred after the victory of God, and he will be reincarnated one final time. According to some Hindu scholars Jesus has been reincarnated many many times before his previous incarnation on earth. Many of them believe in jesus and even mohamed peace and blessing and mercy of Allah be upon them and their families  . 

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7 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

According to some Hindu scholars Jesus has been reincarnated many many times before his previous incarnation on earth.

Hindu scholars??  What do hindu scholars have to do with Jesus. Hindus believe in 7 births for all humans. And, they don't believe in Jesus..

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4 hours ago, Zainuu said:

But at the end they will stand with the Dajjal only. 

BTW I didn't answer this, just noticed sorry.

As @F.Msaid earlier, according to scriptures there will be many dajjals, with one final one being the last. So if they say there are two messiahs, then its like two dajjals. At the same time some will stand with the true Messiah inshallah. And maybe there are many precursors as well, with similar attributes. 

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10 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

Hindu scholars??  What do hindu scholars have to do with Jesus. Hindus believe in 7 births for all humans. And, they don't believe in Jesus..

Example

"Christian, Muhammadan, Hindu-it doesn’t matter. If he is simply speaking on behalf of God, he is a guru."

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Krishna and Jesus Christ

Chapter 27 – Krishna and Jesus Christ

jesusandkrsna1.jpgMany people often wonder what is the view of Lord Jesus Christ in the Krishna consciousness movement.

Srila Prabhupada, the foremost exponent of the Krishna consciousness movement explains that Jesus is Krishna’s representative, son of God, and spiritual master.

Below are excerpts from Srila Prabhupada’s books, lectures, and conversations about Jesus Christ and his relationship with Krsna.

“If one loves Krishna, he must love Lord Jesus also. And if one perfectly loves Jesus he must love Krishna too. If he says, “Why shall I love Krishna? I shall love Jesus,” then he has no knowledge. And if one says, “Why shall I love Jesus? I shall love Krishna”, then he has no knowledge either. If one understands Krishna, then he will understand Jesus. If one understands Jesus, you’ll understand Krishna too” 
(Srila Prabhupada – Room conversation with Allen Ginsberg, May 12, 1969 / Columbus – Ohio)

“As Lord Jesus Christ said, we should hate the sin, not the sinner. That is a very nice statement, because the sinner is under illusion. He is mad. If we hate him, how can we deliver him? Therefore, those who are advanced devotees, who are really servants of God, do not hate anyone. When Lord Jesus Christ was being crucified, he said, “My God, forgive them. They know not what they do.” This is the proper attitude of an advanced devotee. He understands that the conditioned souls cannot be hated, because they have become mad due to their materialistic way of thinking. In this Krsna consciousness movement, there is no question of hating anyone. Everyone is welcomed to come and chant Hare Krsna, take krsna-prasada, (spiritualised food) listen to the philosophy of Bhagavad-gita, and try to rectify material, conditioned life. This is the essential program of Krsna consciousness. 
(Path of Perfection Chapter 3: Learning How to See God)

Christian, Muhammadan, Hindu-it doesn’t matter. If he is simply speaking on behalf of God, he is a guru. Lord Jesus Christ, for instance. He canvassed people, saying, “Just try to love God.” Anyone-it doesn’t matter who, be he Hindu, Muslim, or Christian, is a guru if he convinces people to love God. That is the test. The guru never says, “I am God,” or “I will make you God.” The real guru says, “I am a servant of God, and I will make you a servant of God also.” It doesn’t matter how the guru is dressed. As Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, “Whoever can impart knowledge about Krsna is a spiritual master.” A genuine spiritual master simply tries to get people to become devotees of Krsna, or God. He has no other business.
(Science of Self Realization Chapter 2: Choosing a Spiritual Master)

So Lord Jesus Christ said, “My Lord, hallowed be Thy name.” He wants to glorify the name of the Lord. And some people says that there is no name of God. How? If Lord Jesus Christ says “Hallowed by Thy name,” there must be name. The name is there, but he did not pronounce it because the people at that time was not be able to understand or maybe some reason, but he says there is name. So we are making this propaganda, Krsna consciousness movement, the “Hallowed by Thy name. My Lord Krsna, the Personality of Godhead, let Your holy name be glorified.” This is our movement. It is not sectarian…(Lecture: Bhagavad Gita 3.27 Melbourne June 27, 1974)

 

Sometimes Sri Krsna descends Himself, and sometimes He sends His representative. The major religions of the world-Christian, Hindu, Buddhist and Muslim-believe in some supreme authority or personality coming down from the kingdom of God. In the Christian religion, Jesus Christ claimed to be the son of God and to be coming from the kingdom of God to reclaim conditioned souls. As followers of Bhagavad-gita, we admit this claim to be true. So basically there is no difference of opinion. In details there may be differences due to differences in culture, climate and people, but the basic principle remains the same-that is, God or His representatives come to reclaim conditioned souls.
(Raja Vidya Chapter 6 :Knowledge of Krsna’s Appearance and Activities)

Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He was so badly treated and still he was thinking, “Father, they do not know what they are doing. Please excuse.” This is suhrdah. He is praying to God This is sadhu, mahatma. Suhrdah prasanta. Not that… In India there are examples like Haridasa Thakura, Prahlada Maharaja. And the Western countries also, Lord Jesus Christ, he is saktyavesa-avatara, God’s son. And he tolerated so much. These are the examples of mahatma (great souls). Don’t misunderstand that we are preaching that mahatmas are only in India. No. By the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead there are mahatmas even amongst the birds, even amongst the beasts, even amongst the lower than animals. Because this Krsna consciousness movement is going on in different places, in different circumstances. (Srimad Bhagavatam 5.5.3 –vrndavana Oct 25, 1976)

Conversation with Father Emmanuel  In 1974, near ISKCON’s center in Frankfurt am Main, West Germany, Srila Prabhupada and several of his disciples took a morning walk with father Emmanuel Jungclaussen, a Benedictine monk from Niederalteich Monastery. Noticing that Srila Prabhupada was carrying meditation beads similar to the rosary, Father Emmanuel explained that he also chanted a constant prayer: “Lord Jesus Christ, be merciful unto us.” The following conversation ensued.

Conversation with Cardinal Danielou  “Thou Shalt Not Kill” or “Thou Shalt Not Murder”?
At a monastic retreat near Paris, in July of 1973, Srila Prabhupada talked with Cardinal Jean Danielou: “… the Bible does not simply say, `Do not kill the human being.’ It says broadly, `Thou shalt not kill.’… why do you interpret this to suit your own convenience?”

From the book ‘Perfect Questions, Perfect Answers’ – Discussions between Peace Corps Worker Bob Cohen and His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

Jesus Christ Was a Guru – The spiritual leader of the Hare Krsna movement here recognizes Lord Jesus Christ as “the son of God, the representative of God… our guru… our spiritual master,” yet he has some sharp words for those who currently claim to be Christ’s followers…

A devotee of Krsna is friendly to everyone. Therefore it is said here that he has no enemy (nirvairah). How is this? A devotee situated in Krsna consciousness knows that only devotional service to Krsna can relieve a person from all the problems of life. He has personal experience of this, and therefore he wants to introduce this system, Krsna consciousness, into human society. There are many examples in history of devotees of the Lord who risked their lives for the spreading of God consciousness. The favorite example is Lord Jesus Christ. He was crucified by the nondevotees, but he sacrificed his life for spreading God consciousness. Of course, it would be superficial to understand that he was killed. Similarly, in India also there are many examples, such as Thakura Haridasa and Prahlada Maharaja. Why such risk? Because they wanted to spread Krsna consciousness, and it is difficult. A Krsna conscious person knows that if a man is suffering it is due to his forgetfulness of his eternal relationship with Krsna. Therefore, the highest benefit one can render to human society is relieving one’s neighbor from all material problems. In such a way, a pure devotee is engaged in the service of the Lord. Now, we can imagine how merciful Krsna is to those engaged in His service, risking everything for Him. Therefore it is certain that such persons must reach the supreme planet after leaving the body.
(Chapter 11 Bhagavad gita text 55 purport

BEYOND CHRISTIANITY: http://scsmathinternational.com/library/SearchForSriKrishna/SearchForSriKrishna-10-Beyond-Christianity.php

The five stages of spiritual development

It was Christ Jesus who first said “Love God with all thy heart, with all thy mind, with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and love man as thy brother.”

This is an absolute truth indeed; but different men put different interpretations to this noble expression. The expressions of all great men are nice but somewhat mysterious—when understood they bring the truth nearest to the heart; otherwise they remain mere letters that “kill”.

The reason of the mystery is that men, advanced in their inward approach to the Deity, are in the habit of receiving revelations which are but mysteries to those that are behind them.

The stages of progress are very much the same as the circles of spiritualism which, though not true themselves, explain a great deal about the gradual development of the soul. We have understood some spiritualists to maintain that matter when sublimated converts itself to spirit.

This theory is indeed against any inward conviction. Matter is matter, and Spirit is spirit; one of them cannot form the other. Spirit is certainly of a superior existence; though we cannot fully understand in our present state of material imprisonment, what relation Spirit does exactly bear to matter, space and time. Metaphysics apart, we decide that the human soul rises higher and higher and can understand things of which we have no idea at present.

Subject to this important rule, Christ Jesus of Nazareth received and uttered the words quoted above. To readers who are a little above the scale of ordinary men, these expressions of Jesus teach that man should love God with all his heart (meaning the affections of the heart perceivable in all children as opposed to hate), with all his mind (meaning the intellect which knows as opposed to ignorance of good things), with all his soul (meaning that principle of the human constitution which worships the Almighty and feels its own immortality) and with all his strength (meaning all active work).

 

To the inspired, however, more things and better and sublimer meanings appear beneath these holy words of the Inspired Jesus. He teaches man to love God and not to know, infer, hate, or think of God. He tells us that man in his absolute state is not the intellect or the body but is the pure Soul itself. The essence of the soul is wisdom, and its action is love absolute. The absolute condition of man is his absolute relation to the Deity in pure love. Love then alone is the religion of the Soul and consequently of the whole man.

The purpil asks here, “What have I to do with the heart?—my heart loves to see the ’sun to smile’, ‘to eat the sweetest dish and to see a dance’.” Jesus profoundly replies, “Yes, you must love God with all thy heart. Your heart now runs to other things than God, but must (as you train a bad horse) make your feelings run to the loving God.” This is one of the four princples of worship or what they call in Vaishnava Literature, Shanta Rasa.

Then the pupil says, “My Lord, the intellect takes me elsewhere from God, i.e., it wants to take me to Positivism; please instruct me what am I to do?” “Yes”, replies Jesus, “you must love God with all your mind, i.e. when you perceive, conceive, remember, imagine, and reason, you must not allow yourself to be a dry thinker but must love. Love alone can soften the dryness of the intellect. You must develop the intellect on all good and holy things by means of love of truth, spiritual beauty and harmony.” This is the second phase of Vaishnava development which passes by the name of Dashya Rasa.

The pupil then enquires whether the development of the affections and the intellect is quite enough for him. Then says the Lord, “You must love God with thy soul also, i.e., you must perceive yourself in spiritual communication with the Deity and receive holy revelations in your sublimest hours of worship.” This is called the Sakhya Rasa of the Vaishnavas, the Soul approaching the Deity in holy and fearless service. The disciple apprehends that he will be lost in such a position and will be unable to act. Then the Saviour tells him these words: “You must love God with all thy strength or will—you are wrong in concluding that you will lose your active existence. You will get it the more. Work for God and work to God, proceeding from no interested views but from a holy free will (which is alone the strength of man) and identifying itself with pure love, will fully engross your attention.”

This description is of Bhakti in general. Then Jesus proceeds to tell us “You must love man as thy brother.” From this is inferred the fourth phase of love, which is a feeling that all men are brothers and God is their common Father. This is Vatsalya Rasa in its first stage of development.

Bhakti (love) is thus perceived in the very first development of the man in the shape of heart, then in the shape of mind, then in the shape of soul, and lastly in the shape of will. These shapes do not destroy each other but beautifully harmonize themselves into a pure construction of what we call the spiritual man, or the Ekanta of Vaishnava Literature.

But there is another sublimer truth behind this fact which is revealed to a few that are prepared for it. We mean the spiritual conversion of the Soul into a woman. It is in that sublime and lofty state in which the soul can taste the sweets of an indissoluble marriage with God of Love. The fifth or the highest stage of Vaishnava development is this, which we call Madhura Rasa, and on this alone the most beautiful portion of the Vaishnava Literature so ably expatiates. This phase of human life, mysterious as it is, is not attainable by all; nay, we should say, by any but “God’s own”. It is so very beyond the reach of common men that the rationalists and even the ordinary theists cannot understand it; nay, they go so far as to sneer at it as something unnatural.

Oh God! Reveal Thy most valuable truths to all, so that Your own may not be numbered with the fanatics and the crazed and that the whole of mankind may be admitted as “Your own”.

 

Recommended reading: The Bhagavad-Gita As It Is translated by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja. This is the preliminary literature for understanding Who God is, in truth, spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself, five thousand years ago.

http://www.messagetoeagle.com/controversial-life-of-st-issa-scroll-reveals-jesus-spent-several-years-in-india-and-tibet/

Lord Jesus Christ lived for two years in the temple at Jagannatha Puri. He was thick and thin with the priests in that temple, and he took his spiritual training from Lord Jagannatha. It is because Lord Jesus loved Lord Jagannatha……and because Lord Jagannatha loved Lord Jesus…….that He, Lord Jagannatha, has come to your country”. (Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Svami. Identical statement made during two separate Ratha Yatra lectures, 1972).
In those Ratha Yatra lectures, Srila Prabhupad built up to the above statement by first explaining the word “avatara” and then labeling Lord Jesus as an avatar. His explanation closely followed the explanation found in His “Raja Vidya”, Ch. 6:

“Of course, the message that Christ preached was just according to his particular time, place, and country, and just suited for a particular group of people. But certainly he is the representative of God. Therefore we adore Lord Jesus Christ and offer our obeisances to him”. (Science of Self Realization).”

https://achronicleofkarma.wordpress.com/axiomatic-truths/kṛṣṇa-and-jesus-christ/

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I want to say that the core story of the bhagavad gita is very relevant to end times, 313, etc. It is basically a moment in the middle of the battlefield, before the battle begins, and when the rightful leader is hesitant when seeing so many relatives and friends on the other side. The lessons learned from this are identical to islam, and from what i understand this story is around 5000 years old, so one must excuse any alterations and misguidance in such an old religion, that even predates the old testament by millenia,

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9 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

want to say that the core story of the bhagavad gita is very relevant to end times, 313, etc. It is basically a moment in the middle of the battlefield, before the battle begins, and when the rightful leader is hesitant when seeing so many relatives and friends on the other side. The lessons learned from this are identical to islam, and from what i understand this story is around 5000 years old, so one must excuse any alterations and misguidance in such an old religion, that even predates the old testament by millenia,

Interesting. Yes I actually agree with this. But it's the belief and scriptures which say that.

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9 hours ago, Zainuu said:

That's not True. Atleast for the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Jesus (عليه السلام).

Salaam brother,

Any Shia books explaining what happened when Gabriel came to the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)? Reading the narrations of our dear Sunni brothers I see why some missionaries exploit such traditions and say that it was a demon — how the prophet (nauzubillah) got suicidal, the way Gabriel beat the chest of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), the heart operations. All I have heard is “we disagree” from Shias but no alternative story given. Even so many of our biographies of Rasulullah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) seem to rely on Sunni sources.

Aside from this brother who said it was the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) who told Jibreel to read “Iqra” and not vice versa (he never seems to give his sources anyway).

Related thread: https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235060113-prophet-muhammad-(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)-scared-of-angel-the-shia-view/

Note to mods: sorry if off topic and you can remove if need be.

 

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9 hours ago, Zainuu said:
17 hours ago, Allah Seeker said:

 

But at the end they will stand with the Dajjal only. 

Reason: Because Muslims will be the enemy of Dajjal. And Jews have an impossible hate for the Muslims, which will make them take the side of Dajjal. This is ignorance. 

Salaam I don’t think Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) can do anything unjust. Yes many Jews (especially zionists) conceptualise Muslims as terrorists or bombers out of Jahl (ignorance). However, when Imam Mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) comes he will show the signs so clearly until “laraiba fihi” there is no doubt that it is true. Then only if someone rejects or joins Dajjal, will he be killed. That’s how I understand so many traditions saying Imam Mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) will kill those who reject him or that he will be a manifestation of God’s wrath just like the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) brought His mercy (which I can see why he (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) will have to be so considering all the evil cabal and elitists that have taken their nafs as god)

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9 hours ago, Allah Seeker said:

Not all Jews are bad, and some will join the mahdi. I'm sure u heard of the 72 sects of muslims going to hell? So who are we to judge even if u n me are among the tiny minority of good people?

Followers of moses likewise are mentioned in the hadith as being split into 70 vs. 1 groups. So technically they have a bigger percentage of good people compared to us, if this hadith is true

Salaam brother I agree with Imam Khomeini’s opinion that most of the world will go to heaven through Allah’s mercy due to their Qasir status. 
About the 73 sects please read this brother if you have time: https://purifiedhousehold.com/the-ummah-will-be-separated-in-73-sects/

About Imam Khomeini and other recent opinions: http://www.iqraonline.net/salvation-of-non-muslims-in-the-view-of-contemporary-imami-scholars/?fbclid=IwAR1u-7aywOgLmf0w9veerqcSERmrmdlFPGBJG6gRkfdQl_p1-wXHTlCYm-o

From our hadiths about other religions and non Muslims’ salvation: http://purifiedhousehold.com/salvation-of-non-shias/

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4 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Salaam I don’t think Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) can do anything unjust. Yes many Jews (especially zionists) conceptualise Muslims as terrorists or bombers out of Jahl (ignorance). However, when Imam Mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) comes he will show the signs so clearly until “laraiba fihi” there is no doubt that it is true. Then only if someone rejects or joins Dajjal, will he be killed. That’s how I understand so many traditions saying Imam Mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) will kill those who reject him or that he will be a manifestation of God’s wrath just like the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) brought His mercy (which I can see why he (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) will have to be so considering all the evil cabal and elitists that have taken their nafs as god)

Yes True. I agree with every point. In the other posts I have mentioned that it's not specific to Jews. But most of the Jews will get deviated. This is not because they are jews or Imam will reject them straight away but because they will be ignorant. 

So, the problem is not in 'being jewish' but problem is 'being ignorant'.

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10 hours ago, Allah Seeker said:

I dont think Allah spoke to prophets directly except some might argue it happened in isolated cases like moses at the burning tree, and maybe our prophet during the night journey.  But before the prophet met angel Gabriel he definitely get word from God.

 

Salaam I think God would have spoke directly to the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) since he is the greatest Prophet ((عليه السلام)). But by directly it is not possible since God has to create the voice and the voice is not God so I think it might have been in Imam Ali ((عليه السلام))’s voice on Mi’raj from what I have heard on the pulpit.

 

10 hours ago, Allah Seeker said:

I haven't found any evidence that Allah gave any creature 100% knowledge of anything. That is not possible in my books, as God has no partners

Yes I agree that you cannot have Allah’s knowledge as His knowledge is unlimited and includes the knowledge of creation. But if it is knowledge except the knowledge of creation and except the knowledge of the hour then I don’t see the Shirk as some hadiths indicate that the Aimmah ((عليه السلام)) have knowledge of pretty much everything that will happen up to the Day of Judgment, such opinions have seemed to popularise in the mainstream. I think this was one of the reasons Daniel Haqiqatjou left Shia Islam. Other scholars say that it is Ghulu. I don’t see the shirk if it is “finite” knowledge and there is an element of contingency on the Creator every moment that one has that knowledge.

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4 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

This is not because they are jews or Imam will reject them straight away but because they will be ignorant. 

So, the problem is not in 'being jewish' but problem is 'being ignorant'.

Salaam if they are ignorant Imam will make them knowledgeable of the truth no?

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14 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Any Shia books explaining what happened when Gabriel came to the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)? 

Their are books from the Shias on the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). 

But you are right. We Shias (most of us) have a problem that we just put our emphasis on Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and Imam Husayn (عليه السلام), that's it. But their are books on the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) which you can read. 

The most recommended of books that I found is Sunan an Nabi by Allama Tabatabai. 

Also, their is a book 'The Message' by Ayatullah Jaffer Subhani. 

I have also not read anything on this topic as I was cleared with it through some orators who greatly criticised this through reasoning from the Quran. Maybe because criticism is rather too easy for such claims through Quran rather than diving into History. 

So,  I will start with Sunan an Nabi soon. I have heard a lot about the book. In fact, this was the book that came into picture as a response to the blasphemous cartoons recently. 

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6 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Salaam if they are ignorant Imam will make them knowledgeable of the truth no?

That is a definition of Illiterate or unaware. 

An Ignorant arrogant is the who denies the truth. 

Imam Husayn (عليه السلام) sent the message of guidance to Shimr (LA) and Umar Saad (LA) too but they denied and never left the path of evil. 

Every Imam (عليه السلام) warned and guided their respective enemy but they denied. This is ignorance. 

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3 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

An Ignorant arrogant is the who denies the truth. 

Interesting. So those who knew that this was “nawasa e rasool” but did not help him are culpable for not helping and for their “hubb e dunya” even though not everyone directly helped Yazeed’s army? But those who were unaware are not culpable? That makes more sense. On an off-topic, I feel this is where a lot of Sunni criticisms of our ahadith literature come from, where they say we are getting our teachings from the children of the killers of Imam al Husayn (عليه السلام), or the traitors of Kufa.

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28 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Interesting. So those who knew that this was “nawasa e rasool” but did not help him are culpable for not helping and for their “hubb e dunya” even though not everyone directly helped Yazeed’s army?

Imam Husayn (عليه السلام) said in his last sermon:

"If you don't have faith, atleast be free in your choices". This was the level to which our Imam (عليه السلام) tried to guide them. 

29 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

I feel this is where a lot of Sunni criticisms of our ahadith literature come from, where they say we are getting our teachings from the children of the killers of Imam al Husayn (عليه السلام), or the traitors of Kufa.

That's baseless. What kind of teachings? 

Cursing? 

In Ziyarat e Ashura which is attributed from Imam as Sadiq (عليه السلام), curse is sent on Muawiya, Yazid, Shimr, Ibn Ziyad,Marwan,Ale Marwan, Ale Umayya, Ale Abu Sufyan. 

So, will they now accuse Imam as Sadiq (عليه السلام). (naudhubillah) 

Yes, I don't like or do cursing on the three Caliphs and Ayesha. Criticism apart but Ibn Abil Hadid in his Sharh of Nahj ul Balagha writes that Abu Bakr said before dying that the worst decision of his life was to take away Fadak from Hazrat Zehra (SA) (can't say about the authenticity but atleast their is an argument).

In fact, this is Mawla Ali's (عليه السلام) way that he respectfully returned Ayesha to Medina. He brought the sons of Banu Hashim in defence of Uthman when the rebels reached Uthman. Also, he adviced Umar at numerous occasions. 

So, the way of AhlulBayt (عليه السلام) is to even do good, if needed (for the sake of Allah and for the sake of Ummah) to those who were bad to you. 

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19 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

So, will they now accuse Imam as Sadiq (عليه السلام). (naudhubillah) 

They will probably say it is not from Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام)) to curse them or some (minority) will say Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام)) had shia beliefs and disassociate themselves from his beliefs like Mufti Abu Layth. So basically they will blame the chain of narrators and say they are the children of the same people who killed Imam Husayn (عليه السلام).

19 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

What kind of teachings? 

Cursing? 

Teachings like chest beating or cursing yes (where they say only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and his angels can curse), which they say comes from the Tawwabeen or children of the killers of Imam Husayn ((عليه السلام)).

I think they are ignoring all those companions who did not come with Imam Husayn (عليه السلام) (even though the Sunnis say the companions begged him to not go).

 

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1 hour ago, 313_Waiter said:

Salaam brother I agree with Imam Khomeini’s opinion that most of the world will go to heaven through Allah’s mercy due to their Qasir status. 
About the 73 sects please read this brother if you have time: https://purifiedhousehold.com/the-ummah-will-be-separated-in-73-sects/

About Imam Khomeini and other recent opinions: http://www.iqraonline.net/salvation-of-non-muslims-in-the-view-of-contemporary-imami-scholars/?fbclid=IwAR1u-7aywOgLmf0w9veerqcSERmrmdlFPGBJG6gRkfdQl_p1-wXHTlCYm-o

From our hadiths about other religions and non Muslims’ salvation: http://purifiedhousehold.com/salvation-of-non-shias/

Walaikum salaam ya akhi

Thanks for those links. I believe in some of what is said, and not in other things. Am not sure exactly what your point is, maybe you can say it in your own words brother? 

To me it is simple. Most people who claim to be Muslim are part of a group that actually is the opposite. 

And definitely God can forgive people of all other religions and beliefs. 

Quran often mentions how most people lack understanding 

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12 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

think they are ignoring all those companions who did not come with Imam Husayn

Some salafis even say that Imam Husayn (عليه السلام) was mistaken (naudhubillah).

13 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Tawwabeen

Regarding Tawwabeen, 

Actually, they were not involved in the killing of Imam Husayn (عليه السلام). they also neber went to support Imam.

Their sin was:

1. They waited for Imam instead of reaching to him and sat idle which gave ibn ziyad a chance to block their path. 

2. They left Hazrat Muslim (رضي الله عنه) alone even after paying allegience on the pretext that they will not fight until Imam Husayn (عليه السلام) reaches Kufa. 

So, they can be called neutral rather than being invloved with the killers. 

And we criticize their actions because: "Being neutral is siding with the evil". 

 

Now, Sunnis can shut up their mouths here because many great companions like Abdullah ibn Umar, Saad ibn Ab in Waqqas, Abdullah ibn Zubayr, Zubayr etc never ever payed allieguence to Imam Ali (عليه السلام) when he was the Caliph. So, their position stands quite similar to tawwabeen. But here comes the 'Sahabi bias'.

I am sorry  for being off-topic. 

But in my opinion, we can connect this story to ourself.

We all are Kufans.

We have paid allegience Imam e Zamana (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف), 

We all have written letters to him and are waiting for his arrival. 

We all face a Yazid of the time. 

We all have recieved the great assistants of Imam (عليه السلام) (Khamenei, Khomeini, Sistani etc) in the form of Hazrat Muslim.

Now, it is upto us whether we acquire the character of Habib or Sulayman (the Tawwab) 

https://www.al-islam.org/nafasul-mahmum-relating-heart-rending-tragedy-karbala-shaykh-abbas-qummi/conclusion-account

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