Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Islamic way to get out of a narcissistic abuser a.k.a Sunni husband

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member
2 hours ago, Ilm-seeker said:

Assalamu alaikum brothers+sisters. 

I have decided to seperate from a narcissistic abuser with my preschooler daughter. What is the Islamic way of moving out of 'his house' by which he means he pays for my roof. I live in North America and court divorce requires a minimum of a year of seperate housing and/or no physical relation. My patience has reach the tolerance limit and I  can't stay a year with him in the same house. 

 

To give a background information, he is a Sunni and I married in taqiyyah since my parents (back in Asia) chose him for me as he was 'educated' and 'namazi'. I asked my Marja' beforehand to confirm that it is not obligatory to reveal beliefs for marriage. So I married with the intention for giving him Hidayah towards ahlul bait. 

But gradually, I had learnt that he is a bi-product of an abusive marriage with least respect for women. From time to time, we had fights regarding my sustenance and he believed that if I earn, I pay for expenses too. (I earn now because he had forcefully given my breastfeeding child to daycare since 'I am not capable of nurturing and raising her with values' and I feel deprived to stay home by myself. (My dream was to be an obedient housewife in a house filled with children of different ages but he wants go me to earn so that he can save more money for buying a house (which I dont dream of having with him because of who he is). He currently earns enough to support 4 adults and a child without any much saving but he still sucks money out of my pocket although I earn about one-fourth of his income. I had filed a domestic violence case during my maternity leave and returned only thinking about our child. But right now, I am concerned about my child's mental and physical health (not to mention mine) as well as our safety. He verbally abuses me almost every single day and once tried to throw her in anger. He has no respect for me or my family and uses such foul language that prevents 40 days of prayers from acceptance (eg haramzaad (illegitimate woman) which accuses my chaste mother of aghastly sin of Zina!). Sometimes when the mental torture is excessive, I recite "Lanatullahi alal qowmiz zolimeen" from pain. Sometimes I also wish he was dead because of his misbehaviors which I know is a very bad thing to do as a wife. Last weekend I wrote an areeza (letter) to Imam e Zaman for protection of me and my child from his oppression along with recitation of Ziyarat e Ashura. And now I am feeling that I should leave.

 

I need to know what is the Islamic ruling for leaving an abuser, if any. I am also willing to know if custody can be mine if the father is abusive and of deviated religious beliefs as Sunnism.

 

My concern is also a hadith that forbids wife to leave husband's home without his permission even if he is an oppressor.

I also want to know if he remains a guardian with physical rights during the one year of seperation or not. Because that is something I totally repel (although never once rejected since now,unless during hayidh) because of his lack of kindness, respect and love for me.

Please share anything with reference to original text.

Wassalam. 

 

[TO EVERY SINGLE MUHIBBEEN OF AHLUL BAYT, PLEASE NEVER MARRY ANYONE FROM TASANNU. BECAUSE THEY ARE A PART OF THE LANAT OF ZIYARAT E ASHURA.]

Well technically If he says talaq to you, it's over on the spot.

https://seekersguidance.org/answers/hanafi-fiqh/divorced-wife-uttering-word-talaq/

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Basic Members
On 10/18/2020 at 5:35 PM, Abu Hadi said:

In Islam, from all the sources I am familiar with, your income is your income, you can spend it any way you wish, or not spend it (save it). It is the husband's responsibility to support the wife and children financially and the wife does not share with him in this responsibility, if she earns $1 per year or $1,000,000 per year, this doesn't change. She can volunteer to use some...."

During my years of no income when I was in my last stage of pregnancy and during the time I was on maternity leave, he paid for my sustenance but his language was still abusive. After joining a job, I started contribution, to maintain peace but he counts every week how much I have and this Muharram when I wanted to send a small amount of money to my father for contributing in azadari majlis (obviously I didn't mention why I wanted to send money and he didn't even know which month was going), he rejected the idea and started saying that I shouldn't send money unless absolute necessity.  But he often sends large sum of money to his family for birthday gift, tech products etc. Then why tug at my money?! 

Quote

"The only part of your post I would take issue with is your implication that because he is Sunni, he is an abuser. I don't know if you meant to imply this, or maybe it just seemed that way to me by how you phrased it. I'm sorry for your experience and it seems that you are with a man who is abusive and doesn't respect you. That doesn't mean that all or even most Sunni men are that way, or even most are that way. I'm sorry in advance if you didn't mean to say this, like I said, just the way you phrased it made it seem like you were implying this. There are also many men who claim to be followers of Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)) that are much more abusive toward their family that what you described. So be careful next time, InShahAllah"

I have seen sunni brothers (husbands of known Sunni sisters circle her) who are really nice to wife and children. But maybe my patience level is lower because he is a liberal Sunni AND verbally abusive. Because I feel that the worst shia is still better than the best Sunni because of their belief in Wilayat and tabarrah towards their enemies.

Quote

1. Excessive secrecy. He refuses to tell you basic details about his life..

2. Bad / no relationship with his immediate family....

3. Attempts by him to cut you off with having relationships with your family / friends at the level you had before you met him. There is a situation where this is not a red flag, i.e. if you have a friend or a relative (not immediate relative) who is fasiq (openly does haram). 

All observed before marriage but wasn't checked as red flag by my parents. 

Quote

".....If he doesn't respect the Hudud (limits) of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), how do you think he will respect you  ?"

This is something that is very important. I haven't thought this way

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Basic Members
31 minutes ago, El Cid said:

It means if he says the divorce word to you 3 times. Your marriage will be over right there and then from his Sunni fiqh.

He can also say it to you on text message if you prefer.

Talaq talaq talaq @Ilm-seeker

I read that according to sunni, it should be said when he is in sound mental state and not in anger and also in presence of 2 male and just Muslims. Which has never happened but he did mention in anger many times that I will give you talaq.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
2 hours ago, Ilm-seeker said:

I read that according to sunni, it should be said when he is in sound mental state and not in anger and also in presence of 2 male and just Muslims. Which has never happened but he did mention in anger many times that I will give you talaq.

Just divorce on irreconcilable differences or cruelty. You're more likely to get custody since you're the mother and you can prove emotional abuse. You're in the west. Just walk away from the situation. Go on craigslist, there's thousands of people wanting to share apartments/houses with others. Be it males or females. Forget about anything islamic for now and do what is best for you. 

Edited by El Cid
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

If you can, leave. Don't tell him where you went, and demand a divorce. Then either just wait things out, or do that process so and so mentioned about forgoing the dowry and having a divorce. I don't think you'd have to follow by Sunni fiqh from what I understand. 

Did you get legally married, or did you just have the nikah? Because if it was the latter, this process may be easier.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Basic Members
9 hours ago, BleedKnee said:

If you can, leave. Don't tell him where you went, and demand a divorce. Then either just wait things out, or do that process so and so mentioned about forgoing the dowry and having a divorce. I don't think you'd have to follow by Sunni fiqh from what I understand. 

Did you get legally married, or did you just have the nikah? Because if it was the latter, this process may be easier.  

We got married using nikah back in home country and my witness (who was also the qadhi on my behalf) was of tashayyu beliefs.

About leaving his house without telling him, I had done that during my maternity leave after filing a case of domestic violence wgen he had 1st (& also the last time) hitted on my head twice. I still feel guilty for leaving like that because of the hadith that prohibits wife to leave husband's house without permission even if he is oppressor. Just to clarify a bit on a previous comment by another brother , I wear hijab and also don't want to leave to commit sins.

In fact although I want to end this toxic relationship, I want to end it in a way, recognized by Islam. If not by our way, at least by Sunni way since he is a Sunni. But iddah will not be possible for me because in an earlier fight in the year after case filing steps, he told me he won't tolerate me for a single day after divorce and he doesn't believe in iddah.

Keep me and my daughter (whom I have named after the main female character of Karbala ) in your duas please.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
53 minutes ago, Ilm-seeker said:

hadith that prohibits wife to leave husband's house without permission even if he is oppressor.

Where's this Hadith. Can you quote it please.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
10 minutes ago, starlight said:

Where's this Hadith. Can you quote it please.

l may be wrong, but when l first read about lslam in the 70s, one of the things l remember is that hadith and Qur'an are not used without citation. Correct?

Admins: do we need an S.C Rule?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
Quote

During my years of no income when I was in my last stage of pregnancy and during the time I was on maternity leave, he paid for my sustenance but his language was still abusive. After joining a job, I started contribution, to maintain peace but he counts every week how much I have and this Muharram when I wanted to send a small amount of money to my father for contributing in azadari majlis (obviously I didn't mention why I wanted to send money and he didn't even know which month was going), he rejected the idea and started saying that I shouldn't send money unless absolute necessity.  But he often sends large sum of money to his family for birthday gift, tech products etc. Then why tug at my money?! 

When you earn money, the guy have no right to ask where you are spending it to nor he have any right to take it from you. Nor you need to ask any permission from him to use your own money.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Basic Members
46 minutes ago, starlight said:

Where's this Hadith. Can you quote it please.

 Baqir ((عليه السلام).) narrates that a woman came to the holy presence of the Messenger of Allah ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.) and asked for the rights of a husband over his wife.

His eminence ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.) replied:

“Obey him, not to disobey him, not give anything from his house as charity without his permission, not even keep recommended fasts without his permission and submit to him. She should not step out of the house without his consent. If she steps out of the house without his consent of her husband, then all the angels of the heavens and the earth, the angels of Allah’s wrath as well as His Mercy, they curse her till she doesn’t return home.” 15

Source: al-islam.org 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
57 minutes ago, Ilm-seeker said:

The above mentioned hadith is mentioned here according to the website.

Wasaael al-Shia, vol. 20, p. 157, H. 25300

P.s. I couldn't edit my previous reply. Hence completing my previous reply

Sorry, but it doesn't say anywhere that she can't leave even if she is being oppressed or abused by the husband. Just bringing this up because I feel it's important for women to know their rights. Too many times they suffer abuse thinking they are following religion by not leaving an abusive man.

May Allah help you. You seem like a strong, inshallah you will do fine. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Molana Laddan

Some lessons learned. 

a. Don’t get into a marriage for monetary, moving to the West, and other such motives. The OP’s marriage appeared (as she alluded to it) for reasons other than marriage itself. (LESSON: Don’t marry for motives other than building a Momin household. Any other motive would be temporary and in the end you would be left holding the bag of shame.). 

b. OP mentioned she thought she would do dawa. Look around, how many young, Shia girls you find who marry a Sunni for dawa. I felt all of those were excuses erected later, once a Sunni man was found who appeared a better, more affluent match at the time. Without judging OP’s intention at that time.. (LESSON: Don’t deceive yourself. Don’t marry a project. Marry someone whose past testifies his / her Eiman and Akhlaq, NOT the other way around.

c. The Hadith of obedience the brother quoted above appeared to be for the couple who is in harmony of each other. it doesn’t say anywhere that a wife is bound to be oppressed. 

For a couple who dislikes each other, the best Islamic legal precedence is of the Hashemite wife of Zaid, who asked for divorce ‘just because she didn’t like his looks.’ Divorce was granted and theProphet Saww himself married that divorced cousin of his. 


d. The oppression and dhulm has to be resisted in all legal and halal ways in all circumstances. Suffering abuse in silence is not part of any of the Islamic teachings.
Otherwise is true.

(LESSON: If you hear, read, or suffer injustice, try to actively resist it.)

e. Again a lesson for all those who want to marry to Sunnis. People evolve. Most Sunnis due the lack of coherent and consistent mass Islamic teaching system that we have (through Muharram programs etc) tend to be more secular in younger years and become more religious to their version of Islam in the later years when life gives them setbacks and the physical strength that allows sinning in youthful years is reduced.

Then one odd Juma Khutba that declares Shia being Kafir is enough to roast you and your marriage. Kids mostly out of convenience tend to pick the religion of the majority wether you consciously showed them the truth of Islam of Ahlulbayt AS, leaving you the mother (or father) of future enemy combatants against the revolution of Imam Mehdi AF. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
8 hours ago, Ilm-seeker said:

We got married using nikah back in home country and my witness (who was also the qadhi on my behalf) was of tashayyu beliefs.

About leaving his house without telling him, I had done that during my maternity leave after filing a case of domestic violence wgen he had 1st (& also the last time) hitted on my head twice. I still feel guilty for leaving like that because of the hadith that prohibits wife to leave husband's house without permission even if he is oppressor. Just to clarify a bit on a previous comment by another brother , I wear hijab and also don't want to leave to commit sins.

In fact although I want to end this toxic relationship, I want to end it in a way, recognized by Islam. If not by our way, at least by Sunni way since he is a Sunni. But iddah will not be possible for me because in an earlier fight in the year after case filing steps, he told me he won't tolerate me for a single day after divorce and he doesn't believe in iddah.

Keep me and my daughter (whom I have named after the main female character of Karbala ) in your duas please.

Here are some rules on women Leaving the house (Shia Marjaa') Sayyid Sistani(may Allah grant him long life)

Ruling 2430. It is unlawful for a woman in a permanent marriage to leave the house without the permission of her husband even if this does not infringe on his rights, except in the following cases: [i] a necessity requires her to; [ii] staying in the house causes her hardship (ḥaraj); [iii] the house is not appropriate for her....

https://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2333/

So there are exceptions to this. 

Sayyid Fadlallah(رضي الله عنه)

Thus, the man has a right to have a sexual relation with his wife in all circumstances unless there is a legal excuse. She has to oblige and she cannot leave the house if he needs her to satisfy his needs. But there is no such need we advise the woman, as a precautionary measure, not to leave the house without the husband's permission in accordance with the view of Sayyed Al-Khouie (May Allah bless his soul), while other jurists believe that she does not have the right, under any circumstances, to leave the house without her husband's permission.

http://english.bayynat.org.lb/womenfamily/women_marriage.htm

Sayyid Fadlallah(رضي الله عنه) regards this as ihtiyyat wujubiyat not to leave the house without the husband's permission, except it is haram in case outlined above. There are other views from our marjaa' on this. I will post if requested. 

These rulings must also be taken in context. In the recent past (50 to 100 years ago), in most countries where muslims lived, it was actually dangerous for a women to leave her house alone, not accompanied by a male relative or with a large group of people. There was a good chance her dignity could be violated. In 2020, a women living in the US, in an area where crime is not very prevalent, like a suburb, the chance that there would be a safety issue for a women leaving her house is much less than it was in the recent past, although in some places and circumstances it is still an issue. Opinions of ulema (at least Shia ulema) are changing on this issue as well as the issue of a women (all the time and in every cirumcstance) needing the permission of her father or paternal grandfather to marry. For this and other issues, obviously , we should follow the ruling of our marjaa', but also understand how this issue fits in with the bigger picture of changing times. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Salaams sister, 

This is an extremely toxic situation not just for yourself, but more importantly your child as well. The positive here is that you recognize it and are willing to stand up for yourself. 

I know someone who was in a similar situation and Alhamdulillah after some struggles, she is the happiest I have ever seen her. She did the following steps:

1. Gather your evidence for abuse, record if you must. This will help you get sole custody of your child. 

2. Speak to a good lawyer before making any drastic decisions like leaving the house etc. Unless it is a danger to your life. 

3. Once you have all clearances from the lawyer for your regular divorce, you can then worry about your Islamic divorce. At this point the ball will be in your court.

Please talk to the experts in their fields.

Wishing you the best, be sure that there is light at the end of the tunnel  

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Basic Members
3 hours ago, KulluNafsin said:

Salaams sister, 

This is an extremely toxic situation not just for yourself, but more importantly your child as well. The positive here is that you recognize it and are willing to stand up for yourself. 

I know someone who was in a similar situation and Alhamdulillah after some struggles, she is the happiest I have ever seen her. She did the following steps:

1. Gather your evidence for abuse, record if you must. This will help you get sole custody of your child. 

2. Speak to a good lawyer before making any drastic decisions like leaving the house etc. Unless it is a danger to your life. 

3. Once you have all clearances from the lawyer for your regular divorce, you can then worry about your Islamic divorce. At this point the ball will be in your court.

Please talk to the experts in their fields.

Wishing you the best, be sure that there is light at the end of the tunnel  

 

While I do want to get freed from him, I want to proceed in a manner that Islam recognizes. So of course I want an islamic divorce before I leave. I  don't want to live with any further guilt of causing trouble to anyone. In case you haven't read the original post of mine, I had already filed a case of domestic violence two years back.

Hopefully those statements and his legal record will help me with custody fight. I still don't want to seize his rights of keeping in touch with his daughter, which will become an obvious thing if I involve legal aid before I leave.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Ilm-seeker - Assalama alaykum

As brother Abu Hadi has rightly said, that religion person is born into DOES NOT define his character – I have seen many Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Sikh, Atheist Buddhist ………… very happy couples. You have seen Sunni happy families too!

You were just very unlucky to get married to a wrong man (through no fault of yours) – Accidents do happen in life.

Allah Almighty says in the Blessed Quran:

We will certainly test you with something of fear and hunger, and loss of wealth and lives and fruits (earnings); but give glad tidings to the persevering and patient 2.155.

You have been given fantastic advice by members on this board.  It is better to leave an abusive husband now then later.  The more you delay it, it will have adverse effect on your daughter. Take legal advice and be patient.

My nephew married a Shia lady he met at work three years ago.  (Her parents are divorced) They are very happy couple with cutest young boy (Ma Sha Allah and may Allah Almighty bless them with happiness forever)

Quote

To give a background information, he is a Sunni and I married in taqiyyah since my parents (back in Asia) chose him for me as he was 'educated' and 'namazi'. I asked my Marja' beforehand to confirm that it is not obligatory to reveal beliefs for marriage. So I married with the intention for giving him Hidayah towards ahlul bait. 

I thought taqiyyah is done ONLY when one’s life is in danger? So, you were hiding something from him too in this marriage!

Quote

I have seen sunni brothers (husbands of known Sunni sisters circle her) who are really nice to wife and children. But maybe my patience level is lower because he is a liberal Sunni AND verbally abusive. Because I feel that the worst shia is still better than the best Sunni because of their belief in Wilayat and tabarrah towards their enemies.

Yes, your patience level is very low. I pray next time you NEVER get to marry ‘worst shia’ but one from the ‘best shia 

One little bit of advice from me: Please do not poison your dear daughter’s mind against her father however tempting it is.  (What happened between you and your (sunni) abusive husband should be history. This is very common among divorcees).  Such children grow up with a lot of personality issues. (google it)

Wishing you a lot of happiness – In sha Allah a few years down the line you will be a very happy person.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Basic Members
53 minutes ago, Debate follower said:

 

I thought taqiyyah is done ONLY when one’s life is in danger? So, you were hiding something from him too in this marriage!

Al-Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq (عليه السلام) (The Sixth Imam of Ahlul-Bayt) said:

"al-Taqiyya is my religion, and the religion of my ancestors.”

He (عليه السلام)also said: "He who doesn’t practice al-Taqiyya, doesn’t practice his religion." 

Source: A Shi'ite encyclopedia (al-islam.org) The website doesn't have an original reference but I have read it before in books.

Where I come from,  tashayyu community is less than 8% of Whole muslim community and revealing faith often leads to isolation from whole society and aversion. Everywhere we used to pray in Taqiyyah, also avoided Iftars arranged by Sunni people. Also, in books, the above mentioned hadith was explained as Taqiyyah being a necessity.

 

53 minutes ago, Debate follower said:

Yes, your patience level is very low...  

One little bit of advice from me: Please do not poison your dear daughter’s mind against her father however tempting it is.  (What happened between you and your (sunni) abusive husband should be history. This is very common among divorcees).  Such children grow up with a lot of personality issues. (google it)

Wishing you a lot of happiness – In sha Allah a few years down the line you will be a very happy person.

That is very apathetic to say that my patience level is low. Calling  wife haramzaad during the day and call her to bed at night is okay?? My patience level is low?! I am sorry but this is not helping anyhow.

 

So, you are suggesting that I shouldn't even mention why I decided to seperate?! What if she questions me and wants evidence of his behavior towards me? While she observes that he loves her, she also notices the verbal abuses and my cries. Children may be small but they do observe.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
2 hours ago, Ilm-seeker said:

Al-Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq (عليه السلام) (The Sixth Imam of Ahlul-Bayt) said:

"al-Taqiyya is my religion, and the religion of my ancestors.”

He (عليه السلام)also said: "He who doesn’t practice al-Taqiyya, doesn’t practice his religion." 

Source: A Shi'ite encyclopedia (al-islam.org) The website doesn't have an original reference but I have read it before in books.

Where I come from,  tashayyu community is less than 8% of Whole muslim community and revealing faith often leads to isolation from whole society and aversion. Everywhere we used to pray in Taqiyyah, also avoided Iftars arranged by Sunni people. Also, in books, the above mentioned hadith was explained as Taqiyyah being a necessity.

Doing taqiyyah in general may be passable.  But in marriage everything should on the table.  The fact is that you hid from him that you are a shia.  When he married you – he thought he was marrying a sunni – (I have no sympathy for him) As you said that “he is a liberal Sunni” – may be if he was made aware of this fact he would not have married you.       

 

Quote

That is very apathetic to say that my patience level is low.

Sister, I fully sympathise with you that is why I posted here – You, yourself said that “may be my patience is low”. See for yourself below in quote. There was an insinuation that he being a sunni made him a bad husband!  If by chance he was a shia, would you be any happier? The problem is that man is Evil Narcissistic Abuser

Quote

I have seen sunni brothers (husbands of known Sunni sisters circle her) who are really nice to wife and children. But maybe my patience level is lower because he is a liberal Sunni AND verbally abusive. Because I feel that the worst shia is still better than the best Sunni because of their belief in Wilayat and tabarrah towards their enemies.

Quote

So, you are suggesting that I shouldn't even mention why I decided to seperate?! What if she questions me and wants evidence of his behavior towards me? While she observes that he loves her, she also notices the verbal abuses and my cries. Children may be small but they do observe.

Please read my post again – I fully sympathise with you. That is what I said:

Quote

 

You have been given fantastic advice by members on this board.  It is better to leave an abusive husband now then later.  The more you delay it, it will have adverse effect on your daughter. Take legal advice and be patient.

Such children grow up with a lot of personality issues. (google it)

 

 

Yes, the children are small and they observe – but they do not UNDERSTAND – they get CONFUSED – they get very INSECURE.

The quicker you get out of this marriage the better for your daughter.

once again - Wishing you a lot of happiness – In sha Allah a few years down the line you will be a very happy person.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...