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In the Name of God بسم الله

Prophets(Peace be upon them)

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On 10/20/2020 at 8:40 AM, Cool said:

Sense of awareness makes the difference. It would be considered "jabr" for the one who is unaware, it would be count as an act of submission for the one who is aware. 

So what you think his refusal to suck milk from anyone else was? A "jabr e mashiyat" or an act of submission to divine will? 

Well what it can be said from just born baby. Does it make any logical sense that such a baby could have consciousness, thus awareness? What is sure is that when God made it forbidden, He (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) surely made the baby to dislike or no desire to suckle from anyone other than his mother.

If Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) desires it, then it would happen so.

I can not make any decision about this.

 

Edited by Abu Nur
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On 10/18/2020 at 4:21 PM, Cool said:

Alaikas-Salam Brother!

If you are saying this with reference to the case of Prophet Musa (عليه السلام), I would say that he was indeed aware of his status. His acceptance of divine command by refusing to suck from any other except her mother is the strongest evidence.

وَحَرَّمْنَا عَلَيْهِ الْمَرَاضِعَ مِنْ قَبْلُ فَقَالَتْ هَلْ أَدُلُّكُمْ عَلَىٰ أَهْلِ بَيْتٍ يَكْفُلُونَهُ لَكُمْ وَهُمْ لَهُ نَاصِحُونَ

28:12

If you hold the view that it was a "jabr" (compulsion) from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) on him otherwise he would have sucked the milk of any woman, then let me know. We would discuss it accordingly. 

Furthermore, sufficient are the verses of Chapter 28, I would suggest you to recite this chapter today and ponder over its verses. 

Wassalam!

Wa alaikum as Salam brother, 

I wasn't referring to any prophet in particular, I just made a remark. 

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18 hours ago, El Cid said:

With due respect. I think you should keep out of this discussion and this subsection.

With due respect, you are not being respectful.
I think I should keep in this discussion.

 

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It's a matter of faith which should be discussed amongst the believers.

Your own religion teaches you not to judge anyone’s level of faith.  As the Prophet Muhammad (S) rhetorically mentioned to someone who assumed someone was a kafir. “Did you open heart and check to see if he was a kafir (someone with no faith)?”

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Not outside entities with invalid opinions

I don’t have opinions.  I just tell it as it is.  

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based on their own unlimited misguidance. 

Show some respect to your fellow brother in humanity.

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4 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

Well what it can be said from just born baby. Does it make any logical sense that such a baby could have consciousness, thus awareness?

What do you think about Isa ibn Maryam (عليه السلام) & Imam Ali (عليه السلام)?

4 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

What is sure is that when God made it forbidden, He (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) surely made the baby to dislike or no desire to suckle from anyone other than his mother.

Certainly it was a plan of God to bring His chosen one back to his mother. But again question remains the same, was it a jabr or it was an act of submission? :)

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What do you think about Isa ibn Maryam (عليه السلام) & Imam Ali (عليه السلام)?

1. It could be that talking was done by inspiration of God and thus God made him to say such a words.

2. Let assume that he did have awareness and talked, how do you connect that every prophet had this awareness. If Jesus was one of the Ulūl ‘Azm, then if we assume that he did awareness trough this verse, then either only Ulūl ‘Azm have this awareness or all prophet had it.

3. What is the proof that he did have awareness and thus aware of his prophethood even when he was baby?

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Certainly it was a plan of God to bring His chosen one back to his mother. But again question remains the same, was it a jabr or it was an act of submission? :)

 

How do we know that it was either jabr or not?

Edited by Abu Nur
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4 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

 

 

Your own religion teaches you not to judge anyone’s level of faith.  As the Prophet Muhammad (S) rhetorically mentioned to someone who assumed someone was a kafir. “Did you open heart and check to see if he was a kafir (someone with no faith)?”

 

Yes, it does teaches that. But you openly declare there is no Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). You openly have put "athiesm" in your profile to show your ideals. When you're declaring yourself to be in the ranks of those with someone with no faith. Then how you use this hadith to show that you do have some faith in you and one shouldn't just assume? So It's safe to say you have no faith and this hadith does not apply to you so you can't misuse it to defend yourself.

4 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

With due respect, you are not being respectful.
I think I should keep in this discussion.

I don’t have opinions.  I just tell it as it is.  

Show some respect to your fellow brother in humanity.

In our faith, The most illiterate people on this Earth are those who deny the existance of Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). We're talking about something scholarly, something which has to do with guidance and intellectualism. How can an illiterate human being participate in such a discussion? You do not have the mental capacity and reasoning to participate based on your actions and words. So I'm being respectful and asking you to not give invalid opinions based on things you do not know and never will if you go down this route. You can continue to do so in any case. I don't have to acknowledge it nor reply to it as that's my choice. 

Peace brother in humanity.  :)

 

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5 hours ago, El Cid said:

Yes, it does teaches that. But you openly declare there is no Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). You openly have put "athiesm" in your profile to show your ideals. When you're declaring yourself to be in the ranks of those with someone with no faith. Then how you use this hadith to show that you do have some faith in you and one shouldn't just assume? So It's safe to say you have no faith and this hadith does not apply to you so you can't misuse it to defend yourself.

 

Yes, I have openly declared,  so what?   I am an Atheist and I don't believe in God.  What will you do?  kill me?

You still learn from Atheists by the way.  Wisdom is the lost treasure of the faithful it is said.  lol

 

Edited by eThErEaL
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36 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

 

You still learn from Atheists by the way.  Wisdom is the lost treasure of the faithful it is said.  lol

 

Such childish remarks. Tsk Tsk. No one has any right to persecute anyone for his beliefs. I'm merely saying you being an atheist makes you mentally unfit for this discussion as it's a religious one. That's all. :) You can take it personally and make more foolish remarks like above or leave it as is. Whatever you like, brother.

Edited by El Cid
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9 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

It could be that talking was done by inspiration of God and thus God made him to say such a words.

He spoke in capacity of a Prophet of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) 

قَالَ إِنِّي عَبْدُ اللَّهِ آتَانِيَ الْكِتَابَ وَجَعَلَنِي نَبِيًّا

19:30

9 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

 Let assume that he did have awareness and talked, how do you connect that every prophet had this awareness.

If Jesus was one of the Ulūl ‘Azm, then if we assume that he did awareness trough this verse, then either only Ulūl ‘Azm have this awareness or all prophet had it.

At the moment I am only discussing the case of Prophet Ibrahim (عليه السلام) & Prophet Musa (عليه السلام). 

I do not want to spread this discussions by involving every Prophet in it because I don't have so much time to spend here :). This discussion will start from Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and will end on him as he is the first and the last. (Kunto Nabiyyan wa Adama bayn al- ma'a e wat-tin & Awwalo khalaq Allaho noori) 

If you read the "Kamal ad din" of Sheikh Sadooq a.r, there is a chapter on occultation of Prophets in it. You can find occultation of Prophet Musa (عليه السلام) in the same chapter. I think you can find it at www.al-islam.org too.

Perhaps Prophet Yusuf bin Ya'qoob (عليه السلام) foretold about the birth of Musa (عليه السلام) to his descendants. (If I remember correctly).

وَإِذْ أَخَذَ اللَّهُ مِيثَاقَ النَّبِيِّينَ لَمَا آتَيْتُكُمْ مِنْ كِتَابٍ وَحِكْمَةٍ ثُمَّ جَاءَكُمْ رَسُولٌ مُصَدِّقٌ لِمَا مَعَكُمْ لَتُؤْمِنُنَّ بِهِ وَلَتَنْصُرُنَّهُ ۚ قَالَ أَأَقْرَرْتُمْ وَأَخَذْتُمْ عَلَىٰ ذَٰلِكُمْ إِصْرِي ۖ قَالُوا أَقْرَرْنَا ۚ قَالَ فَاشْهَدُوا وَأَنَا مَعَكُمْ مِنَ الشَّاهِدِينَ 

3:81

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