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In the Name of God بسم الله

Pakistani Shias, refute this anti-shia video

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  • Veteran Member
1 hour ago, Cherub786 said:

When Gharavi said “we can’t do Allah’s bandagi” what did he mean?

This is a good question^ ... any replies?

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Guest Molana Laddan

This is the core problem with non-Shias. They always pick & choose from Qur’an to prove their religion of Sahaba, which is obviously different from the religion of Muhammad saww and his Ahlulbayt. 
 

For example, in Qur’an in multiple places the word ABD has been used in the meanings of slaves. Now this person could be slave of anything. Like some are slaves of Dunya, some slaves of their false Hadith books, some slaves of their make believe human gods who happened to lived in the time of the Prophet. 
 

Shia, Iqbal, others who are honest with the Qur’an call themselves the slaves of Prophet Muhammad saww, Imam Ali, and other holy Ahlulbayt, and they are darn proud of it. 

Here are a few examples where Allah uses the word Abd. All these Abd would still be the Abd of Allah in addition of being the Abd of their righteous owners. 
 

وَلَا تَنكِحُوا الْمُشْرِكَاتِ حَتَّىٰ يُؤْمِنَّ وَلَأَمَةٌ مُّؤْمِنَةٌ خَيْرٌ مِّن مُّشْرِكَةٍ وَلَوْ أَعْجَبَتْكُمْ وَلَا تُنكِحُوا الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَتَّىٰ يُؤْمِنُوا  وَلَعَبْدٌ مُّؤْمِنٌ خَيْرٌ مِّن مُّشْرِكٍ وَلَوْ أَعْجَبَكُمْ أُولَـٰئِكَ يَدْعُونَ إِلَى النَّارِ وَاللَّـهُ يَدْعُو إِلَى الْجَنَّةِ وَالْمَغْفِرَةِ بِإِذْنِهِ وَيُبَيِّنُ آيَاتِهِ لِلنَّاسِ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَذَكَّرُونَ  ﴿البقرة: ٢٢١﴾

 يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا كُتِبَ عَلَيْكُمُ الْقِصَاصُ فِي الْقَتْلَى الْحُرُّ بِالْحُرِّ وَالْعَبْدُبِالْعَبْدِ وَالْأُنثَىٰ بِالْأُنثَىٰ فَمَنْ عُفِيَ لَهُ مِنْ أَخِيهِ شَيْءٌ فَاتِّبَاعٌ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَأَدَاءٌ إِلَيْهِ بِإِحْسَانٍ ذَٰلِكَ تَخْفِيفٌ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ وَرَحْمَةٌ فَمَنِ اعْتَدَىٰ بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ فَلَهُ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ ﴿البقرة: ١٧٨﴾

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7 hours ago, Ansur Shiat Ali said:

:hahaha:

Doing Dua/Tawasul to an Imam (عليه السلام) is different then praying to someone.

 

Supplicating to other than Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is not from the acts or beliefs of Shiism. Refer to the Quran or the supplications taught by the ma'soomeen (عليه السلام). These are our sources. 

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8 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

But who will decide what is a dishonest accusation and what isn’t?

The basis of the beliefs of our school are the Qur'an and the narrations of the prophet and the aimmah, peace and blessings on all of them. 

These are the deciding factors. 

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  • Veteran Member
11 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Once again, a great production and expose by anti-majos. Aqeel ul-Gharavi knows very well that bandagi is the standard Urdu translation of Ibadah, worship, and not service (ghulami, khidmat). He says we are incapable of doing Allah’s “bandagi” and can only do Ali’s “bandagi”. If he means obedience, then he has divided obedience to Allah from obedience to Ali رضى الله عنه, which means he believes sayyidina Ali رضى الله عنه came with a new Shari’ah different from the Shari’ah which Allah revealed to the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم. But it is obvious he was doing taqiyah by trying to explain bandagi as something other than worship while in the majlis he clearly meant worship.

 

Thanks to almighty Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) that Ayat ullah Aqeel ul Gharavi has exposed  a pseodu  prophet at SC that has Illm e Ghayab (knowledge of unseen) in his mind only to know what is inside the heart of a learned scholar. :hahaha:

Ayat ullah video has also exposed the agents of wahabi, majoosi and follower of Mirza ie Qadayani who are declared non muslim in some countries..

This is actual clarification for the video

wasalam 

Edited by Muslim2010
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  • Advanced Member
2 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

This is a good question^ ... any replies?

Our obedience of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is made conditional to the obedience of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Imams (عليه السلام).

For us, command is to cling with Hablillah

 

وَاعْتَصِمُواْ بِحَبْلِ اللّهِ جَمِيعًا

This is not the case with Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Imams, for them command is:

وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِاللَّهِ 

So there is no doubt that true bandagi of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has been done by those whom we know as Sadiqeen, Tahireen, Sabireen etc. 

کوئی حسین ع سا سجدہ ذرا ادا تو کرے

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37 minutes ago, Cool said:

command is to cling with Hablillah

True, but clinging to hablillah ((عليه السلام)) is clinging to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). So it could still make the statement somewhat problematic.

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57 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

True, but clinging to hablillah ((عليه السلام)) is clinging to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). So it could still make the statement somewhat problematic.

Difference is as I have pointed out in my previous comment. We are holding the rope. Rope has two ends, one is with person who is recueing while other is with the person being rescued. 

So if you are holding the rope, the rope itself is holding Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) directly from one end and you on the other. The medium between us & God is rope, there is no medium between God & rope.

From God's perspective, this is the result:

وَمَا يُؤْمِنُ أَكْثَرُهُمْ بِاللّهِ إِلاَّ وَهُم مُّشْرِكُونَ

12:106

That's why Aqeel Gharavi said that we cannot even obey Imam Ali (عليه السلام) with true letter & spirit. 

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6 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Perhaps you can explain something. When Gharavi said “we can’t do Allah’s bandagi” what did he mean?

He mentioned in the same video, even in subtitles,

Obedience, Bandagi

Bhai video dekho jaake phly phir post krna

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  • Advanced Member
13 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

prostrating to graves, praying to the dead

Thats not allowed, if something isn't proven from Quran Hadith and people still do it, then don't blame their mathab, criticize the people.

Else YOU PEOPLE GOT SUFIS WITH TONS OF WORSE BELIEFS, even like Allah came inside a buzurg and spoke etc lol Astagfirullah

Preach your people before you taunt us (instead of ghalis) and there are people claiming bukhari came to us by transmission of sufis etc (Wajahat Hussein Hanafi)

You people do it alot more than we do.

Plus We don't pray to dead.

And Imams (عليه السلام) etc are exempt for all this as its mentioned in our hadiths. There are some merits specific for Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and aal e Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) but you people just can't take them. 

11 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Now in my perspective, when Twelver Shi’ah pray to their Imams they are making those Imams partners with Allah because prayer should only be directed to God alone.

Asking Imams (عليه السلام) for something if you don't consider them independent of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) can't be shirk. Its shirk of you consider Imams (عليه السلام) some independent source of power. Else you aren't making any imam partner of Allah since you consider him (Imam) dependent. And according to our hadiths, Imams (عليه السلام) do have a lot of authority granted by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). He is referred to as Hands of Allah, Face of Allah, Tongue of Allah etc So asking hands of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for help isn't asking Ghair Ullah for help and it isn't shirk

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1 hour ago, Cool said:

So if you are holding the rope, the rope itself is holding Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) directly from one end and you on the other. The medium between us & God is rope, there is no medium between God & rope.

Ah that makes sense. So it’s like when Jesus (may have) said this:

Quote

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)

So for the Israelites, maybe Jesus ((عليه السلام)) was their Hablillah.

You are not gonna like this brother @Cherub786 but take note :hahaha:

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Guest Justice
14 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

@Cherub786, please stop spreading misinformation. If you persist with attributing such things to us then I am afraid that you will no longer be welcome on the forum. 

Open and critical discussion is always welcome, dishonest accusations are not.

Brilliant justice you are so fair.......you can spread misinformation here on Sunnis BUT if you do it to shias you will be banned.

Shia justice!

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I don't even watch such videos. Why should I? See, they are a people who believe that their god is a humanoid with arms and legs and on judgment day he will be sitting on a chair which will be making creaking noises from its weight and his fat thighs will be hanging from the sides of that chair. And then he will put his leg in hell and hell will scream out "QAT!" "QAT!". What are the achievements or the effects if their existence since 1400 years, or what is their future?

Utter waste of time.

 

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2 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

I don't even watch such videos. Why should I? See, they are a people who believe that their god is a humanoid with arms and legs and on judgment day he will be sitting on a chair which will be making creaking noises from its weight and his fat thighs will be hanging from the sides of that chair. And then he will put his leg in hell and hell will scream out "QAT!" "QAT!". What are the achievements or the effects if their existence since 1400 years, or what is their future?

Utter waste of time.

 

They also made some video about Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) jogging. Astragfullah.

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4 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

he will put his leg in hell and hell will scream out "QAT!" "QAT!".

They say that just like our hearing is not same as Allah’s hearing Allah’s leg is not the same as our leg (or his hand in the Quran).

But the thing is, if you dont take the metaphorical meaning and are a salafi literalist, then you’ve limited God by saying it is leg or hand

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7 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

They say that just like our hearing is not same as Allah’s hearing Allah’s leg is not the same as our leg (or his hand in the Quran).

But the thing is, if you dont take the metaphorical meaning and are a salafi literalist, then you’ve limited God by saying it is leg or hand

Pretty sure there is no room for your clarifications in the "qat qat" and similar hadiths. All they have done is invite ridicule and blasphemies.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Advanced Member
On 10/10/2020 at 7:22 AM, 313_Waiter said:

:salam:

How can we refute this video?

In my opinion bandagi could mean obedience and rabb could mean master in the subordinate sense (slave of God but our master in the sense we should obey them) “obey Allah and obey the messenger and those in authority”.

 

 

The first question I'll ask to everyone here involved is. Why would you even take the time to acknowledge and refute this video by a channel called Anti-[edited out]? These people are not doubters and rivals to your faith. These people want your faith destroyed and wiped off the face of the earth. They spend hundreds of hours going through videos of Shi'a lectures not to get knowledge but to seek out clips where they can distort the meaning of what the Shi'a scholar is saying and add some Anti-Shia/Ghulat/Heretic commentary to them by misconstructing words. 

These people hate Shia Islam so much that they have a whole network of spam bots on social media websites such as Youtube where Anti-Shia messages are automated spammed throughout comment sections for example: "I was a Shia. I was a blind idiot until I came to know the greatness of Umar. Proud Sunni. Shia islam is kafir." and many others like that. They have millions of Anti-Shia facebook pages and tumblrs designed to influence people against Shias and Shia Islam. They are also shameless in their efforts to smear Shi'a scholars and persons. This is how their mind and games work for example:

Shia scholar: -Sneezes in an Interfaith discussion-

These video creators: They will see this clip. Make a hyperbole out of the situation with this commentary and title: OMG SHI'A SCHOLAR TRAINED IN BIOLOGICAL WARFARE BY AYATOLLAH KHAMEINEI SENT TO SPREAD COVID-19 IN DEBATE. 

And round and round we go. 

Honestly, anyone who has this much hatred for another is not even a Human being in my eyes much less a Muslim. These people need a reality check.

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44 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Honestly, anyone who has this much hatred for another is not even a Human being in my eyes much less a Muslim. These people need a reality check.

True but we are intellectual and we can refute anything and if we have the truth we don’t care we will refute them

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4 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

True but we are intellectual and we can refute anything and if we have the truth we don’t care we will refute them

You can't tell anyone the truth, make them change their mind when they have already a FIXED CONCRETE opinion about you being a Kafir/Mushrik/Unbeliever. Their hearts are locked according to Quran. You could hold a bottle of Kawthar in front of them and they will still deny you your position. Stubborn people are blind, deaf and dumb.

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