The Sufyani and one of his attributes

[Muntazir e Mahdi]

Bismillah i Rahman i Raheem

Assalaam o 'Alaikum Wa Rahmatullah i Wa Barakaatuh

 

!!!CONTROVERSY WARNING!!!

I recall reading somewhere, I think in this very forum actually, a post that mentioned eschatological details according to Islam. There was a description of the Sufyani also mentioned, and one of the signs was that he'll rip children out of the bellies of women. I was thinking about this a few days ago, and coincidentally came across a tweet that mentioned something about the US elections and abortions. I began thinking that maybe this sign of ripping children out of the bellies of woman is referencing abortions? To be clear, I'm not trying to say that the Sufyani will rise in the US, I only mentioned the US to give context about how I came to this thought of connecting these two. I want to know what are the thoughts of everyone else on this. I'm not asking for your views on abortion, late-term/early-term or any other details, I'm only asking about your thoughts on this connection that came to my mind recently.

 

JazakAllah

Wa 'Alaikum Assalaam Wa Rahmatullah i Wa Barakaatuh

[F.M]

well said brother!!!

we need more of those topics who bring us closer to our living imam (aj)

all hadith who are revering to the future can be interpretated in many,many ways! sometimes even in metophorical ways because in the past there did not exist any words to name  lots of modern things.. 

keep those topics up!! so that we can at least prepare for his pleasent return! 

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I really belief that if the servants of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) are searching for answers on their questions then I belief that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is definetally going to help them. He is not making live difficult for people who are constantly searching for answers.. its has been even said that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is communicating with his servants trough their brains and you can feel him existing deeply in youre heart. 

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by F.M

[Muntazir e Mahdi]

11 hours ago, F.M said:

well said brother!!!

we need more of those topics who bring us closer to our living imam (aj)

all hadith who are revering to the future can be interpretated in many,many ways! sometimes even in metophorical ways because in the past there did not exist any words to name  lots of modern things.. 

keep those topics up!! so that we can at least prepare for his pleasent return! 

----------------------------

I really belief that if the servants of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) are searching for answers on their questions then I belief that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is definetally going to help them. He is not making live difficult for people who are constantly searching for answers.. its has been even said that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is communicating with his servants trough their brains and you can feel him existing deeply in youre heart. 

 

I am only a small minded individual trying to get close to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and the Infallibles (عليه السلام) JazakAllah

I realised something though, the line in question mentioned that he will kill children and rip out the bellies of women, it's not explicitly stated that ripping the bellies will be what kills them, though, perhaps it can be taken as an implied meaning. However, this can be taken in another way, such that if they are separate, then I recall hearing about the US agency ICE performing forced hysterectomies on women who tried to immigrate. Perhaps this could be seen as a connection?
Additionally there's also the mention that he will rule over Syria, but that does not necessarily mean it will be just Syria, yes? If that is the case then maybe in the current Syrian conflict, Bashar Al-Assad's government will soon fall with the global coalition and a new government will be installed there that adopts several US policies but also states it will uphold Islam, and that government might be of the Sufyani? So obviously said government will have good relations with the US, and therefore possibly with the Saudis as well. Also, it is said that when Imam Baqiatullah (عليه السلام) returns, the Sufyani will send an army which will be swallowed in the land of Beyda which is in Arabia, and one way that can be possible is with the good relations I mentioned with the Saudis. But why would he need to send an army? Perhaps this means that he will contribute in the army that will be sent there as a sign of his friendship with the US and Saudis or it could maybe even mean that Arabia will be so destabilised that it will need external help. Both arguments can be supported such that the first one can be connected with Saudi interest in normalising ties with Israel which would strengthen it's bonds with the US and obviously then the Sufyani will support that as he was placed by the US in this theory. Alternatively, Saudi support for Israel may destabilise Arabia since many countries will withdraw crucial support from it due to this and cause the Sufyani to send an army to aid the Saudis since they cannot do the job themselves (say if Pakistan withdraws support, it could make sense since Pakistan has a big part to play in the strength of the Saudi military). Perhaps these two causes are related even.

Edited October 10, 2020 by MuhammadAqdas110
Grammar

[El Cid]

I've read that there's no such thing as a Sufyani, only legends which were made up by the Ummayads after the deaths of Abu Sufyan's direct descendents(Muwaiya, Yazid, Muwaiya II) and relative Marwan that some descendent of Abu Sufyan would appear and re-establish their family rule. There have been many people during the Abbasid Caliphate who claimed to be this figure.

[Muntazir e Mahdi]

1 minute ago, El Cid said:

I've read that there's no such thing as a Sufyani, only legends which were made up by the Ummayads after the deaths of Abu Sufyan's direct descendents(Muwaiya, Yazid, Muwaiya II) and relative Marwan that some descendent of Abu Sufyan would appear and re-establish their family rule. There have been many people during the Abbasid Caliphate who claimed to be this figure.

Interesting, since many sources cite his existence. Shaykh Saduq narrated from Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) it as one of the signs of the Reappearance. It would make sense for him to exist, symbolic of Banu Hashim's triumph over Banu Umayyah.

[El Cid]

1 minute ago, MuhammadAqdas110 said:

Interesting, since many sources cite his existence. Shaykh Saduq narrated from Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) it as one of the signs of the Reappearance. It would make sense for him to exist, symbolic of Banu Hashim's triumph over Banu Umayyah.

The hadith which says Sufyani is a descendent of Abu Sufyan is Zaif/Weak.

[El Cid]

I'm not saying that there can't be some other figure named Sufyani but the Sufyani which is believed to be from Abu Sufyan is an Ummayad legend and the hadith stating He is are zaif.

[Muntazir e Mahdi]

Hmm, even if that's the case, it doesn't change the whole theory much, since this theory itself, apart from the part of the triumph of Banu Hashim, does not depend on his lineage.

[El Cid]

48 minutes ago, MuhammadAqdas110 said:

Hmm, even if that's the case, it doesn't change the whole theory much, since this theory itself, apart from the part of the triumph of Banu Hashim, does not depend on his lineage.

 It would make sense for him to exist, symbolic of Banu Hashim's triumph over Banu Umayyah. -> How is there symnolism if he isnt related to ummaya?

[Muntazir e Mahdi]

9 hours ago, El Cid said:

 It would make sense for him to exist, symbolic of Banu Hashim's triumph over Banu Umayyah. -> How is there symnolism if he isnt related to ummaya?

Yes that's what I mean, even if his lineage isn't from Abu Sufyan, that doesn't make it explicitly improbable that he exists either.

[F.M]

On 10/10/2020 at 11:52 PM, MuhammadAqdas110 said:

However, this can be taken in another way, such that if they are separate, then I recall hearing about the US agency ICE performing forced hysterectomies on women who tried to immigrate. Perhaps this could be seen as a connection?

Indeed I had also such a thing into my head... inwas reading article where it’s written that lots of immigrant women Are getting sterrelised without them knowing...it really wouldn’t surprise me that it turns out we already live or even start to live into a sufyani movement.. 

[F.M]

On 10/10/2020 at 11:56 PM, El Cid said:

I've read that there's no such thing as a Sufyani, only legends which were made up by the Ummayads after the deaths of Abu Sufyan's direct descendents(Muwaiya, Yazid, Muwaiya II) and relative Marwan that some descendent of Abu Sufyan would appear and re-establish their family rule. There have been many people during the Abbasid Caliphate who claimed to be this figure.

Do you mean that Sufyani as a person is metaphorical? So it will be a movement? 

[F.M]

23 hours ago, El Cid said:

On 10/11/2020 at 12:06 AM, MuhammadAqdas110 said:

 

 It would make sense for him to exist, symbolic of Banu Hashim's triumph over Banu Umayyah. -> How is there symnolism if he isnt related to ummaya

But there are hadiths telling about the appereance of the sufyani.. like he will have a swollen face,blue eyes ( if I don’t  mistaken) And blond hair ....

actually sounds like trump 

[El Cid]

14 hours ago, MuhammadAqdas110 said:

Yes that's what I mean, even if his lineage isn't from Abu Sufyan, that doesn't make it explicitly improbable that he exists either.

And like I said. I don't deny that he does exist. I am just stating that He isn't a descendant of Abu Sufyan like people think so let's not give Abu Sufyan any importance. He was just an ordinary man and an enemy of our Prophet(SW).

Edited October 11, 2020 by El Cid

[Muntazir e Mahdi]

15 hours ago, F.M said:

But there are hadiths telling about the appereance of the sufyani.. like he will have a swollen face,blue eyes ( if I don’t  mistaken) And blond hair ....

actually sounds like trump 

Let's not point to a specific individual :P our scholars strongly disapprove of that.

15 hours ago, El Cid said:

And like I said. I don't deny that he does exist. I am just stating that He isn't a descendant of Abu Sufyan like people think so let's not give Abu Sufyan any importance. He was just an ordinary man and an enemy of our Prophet(SW).

It's really a matter of time which will tell what is the case in reality then, Insha'Allah we will see.

[Allah Seeker]

5 hours ago, MuhammadAqdas110 said:

Let's not point to a specific individual :P our scholars strongly disapprove of that.

Al Salaam Alaikum,

I can understand the scholarly sentiments, but eventually we - or the future generations - must identify the key players, otherwise we might miss the bus. So I think it's healthy and appropriate to keep questioning the current identity of those who fit the shoe best. Kind of a litmus test. In this way we can at least find those who most closely resemble these characters, and lend moral support to the ones who are on the right side of future/present/past history, which are somehow one and the same.

[Muntazir e Mahdi]

1 minute ago, Allah Seeker said:

Al Salaam Alaikum,

I can understand the scholarly sentiments, but eventually we - or the future generations - must identify the key players, otherwise we might miss the bus. So I think it's healthy and appropriate to keep questioning the current identity of those who fit the shoe best. Kind of a litmus test. In this way we can at least find those who most closely resemble these characters, and lend moral support to the ones who are on the right side of future/present/past history, which are somehow one and the same.

Verily. We shouldn't immediately point fingers, but we should indeed be very cautious.

[F.M]

2 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

Al Salaam Alaikum,

I can understand the scholarly sentiments, but eventually we - or the future generations - must identify the key players, otherwise we might miss the bus. So I think it's healthy and appropriate to keep questioning the current identity of those who fit the shoe best. Kind of a litmus test. In this way we can at least find those who most closely resemble these characters, and lend moral support to the ones who are on the right side of future/present/past history, which are somehow one and the same.

Well said bro, the generation before us don’t understand such things... 

 

[F.M]

5 hours ago, MuhammadAqdas110 said:

Let's not point to a specific individual :P our scholars strongly disapprove of that.

20 hours ago, El Cid said:

Yes you’re right inside not say it wil be trump or whatsoever..

i was just kidding>BUT. About the apereance and facial future of sufyani is real 

it has been said he will have a swollen face etc... the rest I really can’t remember

[Muntazir e Mahdi]

1 minute ago, F.M said:

Yes you’re right inside not say it wil be trump or whatsoever..

i was just kidding>BUT. About the apereance and facial future of sufyani is real 

it has been said he will have a swollen face etc... the rest I really can’t remember

yes that much I understood, I just want to play it safe haha.

Do you have any links about the description of the Sufyani? Would love to read about that.

[F.M]

Sometimes I just wonder who actually will be the suffyani... and are we living near the holy return of imam al Mahdi... i really hope it is.. coz world turned extreme crazy and inhuman 

Everyone a loud ** dua Faraj  

[F.M]

3 minutes ago, MuhammadAqdas110 said:

5 minutes ago, F.M said:

 

yes that much I understood, I just want to play it safe haha.

Do you have any links about the description of the Sufyani? Would love to read about that.

I got them from Islam.org  about sufyani and his movement

also wikishia 

[Muntazir e Mahdi]

1 minute ago, F.M said:

Sometimes I just wonder who actually will be the suffyani... and are we living near the holy return of imam al Mahdi... i really hope it is.. coz world turned extreme crazy and inhuman 

Everyone a loud ** dua Faraj  

I hope we are close to the time too... Insha'Allah we will see his return very soon and be his helpers.

Dua e Faraj is such a grand Dua, we are so lucky to have it.