Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Struggle to establish Islamic government

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Veteran Member

If a person believes that he has sufficient shield from evils to be involved in politics, then get involve.  Managing interests of people of different backgrounds and needs are not easy.  You are forced to talk against your opponents on many worldly issues such as policy, approaches, experiences, .... and show you are better in term of giving solutions.  It will get messy.

Wait when the power to govern is given, can the person handle it.

Imam Khomeini was selfless or humble person and his interests was to serve Allahbswt and Ahlulbayts.  Then he could clean the arena of politics.  He sat the standards for others to follow.  Not all Scholars can set a standard.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 181
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I believe I can perfectly follow Islam even in non-muslim country. 

There's a saying " think of Allah before, and after the action". If we are living in a country where we are able to live peacefully, and practice our religious beliefs freely why create an uprise wher

Alright then. Start a fund raiser then send me the money, I will send you a shipment of water guns, paint sprays to draw graffiti and slogans on city walls, as well as gas masks when the police uses t

  • Advanced Member

Can’t believe this discussion is going on... the answer is simple. An Islamic state cannot be established without our Imam. What is the difference between fiqh, and sharia ? Fiqh is mans interpretation of sharia such as Sistani’s rulings, and sharia is concrete divine laws.... the only person who can establish sharia is the divine beings known as Prophets/Imams... as humans we are prone to error, misjudgment , different interpretations , and do not have unlimited knowledge...why don’t you think Sistani took the role of government after the revolution ? He himself has stated amongst his students not to apply his rulings in the absent of the final imam... yes we can establish an Islam republic , but it’s not error free like an Islamic Starr would under the imam... seriously guys this is a straight forward answer... wow I’m surprised. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)
18 hours ago, Cool said:

So if you're living in USA or in Israel, it is obligatory for you to struggle for an Islamic Government? 

Salam establishing an Islamic Government is best option for Muslims but if it's not achievable in USA or in Israel but still muslims can build a community to support each other instead of living in separate between other communities so like example of Dearborn muslim community you can build other muslim communities  in USA or in Israel that in holy Quran it stated that when Jews under oppression of Pharaoh then Allah ordered Jews to build their houses in a certain place next & front of each other to create a supportive community inside Egypt. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
36 minutes ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

Can’t believe this discussion is going on... the answer is simple. An Islamic state cannot be established without our Imam. What is the difference between fiqh, and sharia ? Fiqh is mans interpretation of sharia such as Sistani’s rulings, and sharia is concrete divine laws.... the only person who can establish sharia is the divine beings known as Prophets/Imams... as humans we are prone to error, misjudgment , different interpretations , and do not have unlimited knowledge...why don’t you think Sistani took the role of government after the revolution ? He himself has stated amongst his students not to apply his rulings in the absent of the final imam... yes we can establish an Islam republic , but it’s not error free like an Islamic Starr would under the imam... seriously guys this is a straight forward answer... wow I’m surprised. 

 

 

Brother you are wrong .Not only wrong , but groosly wrong.

If you are the head of family will you allow haram and indicent thigs to allow in your house.

What if any one says we have to do nothing till Imam comes.

Definitely Imam can achieve 100 perfect governance.

But what is wrong if we achieve 50 _ 60 percentag.

Do you vote.Votong is politics.If it is wrong why all religious scholars cast vote.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
52 minutes ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

Can’t believe this discussion is going on... the answer is simple. An Islamic state cannot be established without our Imam. What is the difference between fiqh, and sharia ? Fiqh is mans interpretation of sharia such as Sistani’s rulings, and sharia is concrete divine laws.... the only person who can establish sharia is the divine beings known as Prophets/Imams... as humans we are prone to error, misjudgment , different interpretations , and do not have unlimited knowledge...why don’t you think Sistani took the role of government after the revolution ? He himself has stated amongst his students not to apply his rulings in the absent of the final imam... yes we can establish an Islam republic , but it’s not error free like an Islamic Starr would under the imam... seriously guys this is a straight forward answer... wow I’m surprised. 

 

 

What prevent us to establish "a government" that put Islam as the official religion and follow the Islamic rulings.  Just like Iran did.

The government is lead by Islamic Scholar, with support from executives branch, religious scholars, non religious experts, military and civilians.  Hold elections.

Make a disclaimer: This Islamic Government has a border and covering the population of the people within the border.

It is just equivalent to a plot of land with a building.  Instead calling it a hotel, name it a masjid or Madrassa.  Within that plot of land, the Islamic rules apply.

The purpose of this Islamic government is to unite muslims within the population and to progress in term of technology, just like the rest of other countries and WE CAN practice our religion at will.  Women wear hijab, foods are Halal...no night clubs or Haram places.  We still have beaches, but no mixing between men and women.  We have our own universities and hospitals. That is the purpose.  We put out country resources for good use and try our best to follow Islamic Rulings.

 

@YoungSkiekh313,

The version of Islamic Government that you are saying is a Government under the control of an Imam.  That will come later and we all will put our support, InsyaAllah.  The coverage will be entire world and heavens, seen and unseen.  Only one Leader, and he is Imam Mahdi(عليه السلام) the Qaim.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

Can’t believe this discussion is going on... the answer is simple. An Islamic state cannot be established without our Imam. What is the difference between fiqh, and sharia ? Fiqh is mans interpretation of sharia such as Sistani’s rulings, and sharia is concrete divine laws.... the only person who can establish sharia is the divine beings known as Prophets/Imams... as humans we are prone to error, misjudgment , different interpretations , and do not have unlimited knowledge...why don’t you think Sistani took the role of government after the revolution ? He himself has stated amongst his students not to apply his rulings in the absent of the final imam... yes we can establish an Islam republic , but it’s not error free like an Islamic Starr would under the imam... seriously guys this is a straight forward answer... wow I’m surprised. 

 

 

1 .If only Imam can apply sharia and others can make error. Then why non Imam scholars write books and people do Taqleed.

2 . If you have to vote a candidate for president . Will you wote a theif and corrupt. Or a  pious ,honest and Goodfearing.

Now if majority of candidates who become elected are religious scholars, then they will run their government according to Islam. Now what is wrong in it.

Just like we try to run our family according to our education and teachings.

Edited by Hadi5
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
3 hours ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

Can’t believe this discussion is going on... the answer is simple. An Islamic state cannot be established without our Imam. What is the difference between fiqh, and sharia ? Fiqh is mans interpretation of sharia such as Sistani’s rulings, and sharia is concrete divine laws.... the only person who can establish sharia is the divine beings known as Prophets/Imams... as humans we are prone to error, misjudgment , different interpretations , and do not have unlimited knowledge...why don’t you think Sistani took the role of government after the revolution ? He himself has stated amongst his students not to apply his rulings in the absent of the final imam... yes we can establish an Islam republic , but it’s not error free like an Islamic Starr would under the imam... seriously guys this is a straight forward answer... wow I’m surprised. 

 

 

I have been arguing for both sides but would you rather we:

  • Live in a secular or non-islamic society and threaten the loss of faith and the possibility of oppression
  • Run a society which is secular or,
  • Run a society based on the Shari’a so that we can prepare for the coming of the Imam ((عليه السلام)).
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

I definitely do not agree with this person on a lot of things, but what do you guys think of his daleel? (Note to mods: please remove if this controversial personality’s videos are impermissible, and I sincerely apologise).

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
22 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

I definitely do not agree with this person on a lot of things, but what do you guys think of his daleel? (Note to mods: please remove if this controversial personality’s videos are impermissible, and I sincerely apologise).

 

Brother you are right.These person have done more haram to us.

Imam Khomeini , Ayatullah Mutahrri, Rajayi, Shah Abadi they were really great scholars and Arifs.

They were also Arifs and recognised we should struggle for Islam and make Islam as our way of living and way running government.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
On 10/11/2020 at 7:05 AM, Sirius_Bright said:

 

I said that because I'm asking brother to produce one hadith/incident from Aimma (عليهم اسلام) but he isn't doing anything other than making claims, like he did for Imam Taqi (عليه السلام). 

These threads tend to go on for pages and pages, but what you have asked above pretty much is the essential question and I have yet to see someone answer it.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
3 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

These threads tend to go on for pages and pages, but what you have asked above pretty much is the essential question and I have yet to see someone answer it.

 

This is the main question for many topics including tatbir, Tawassul and certain forms of wilayatul faqih.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
48 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

These threads tend to go on for pages and pages, but what you have asked above pretty much is the essential question and I have yet to see someone answer it.

 

Brother read Quran.

Just list the things which Quran has made halal and haram.Tell us how to implement it.

Second if your country is occupied by non believers and they force their unislamic rules. Should accept it or reject.

I expect you definitely believe in Quran.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Development Team
2 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

This is the main question for many topics including tatbir, Tawassul and certain forms of wilayatul faqih.

Not exactly. Each topic is different. Those defending tatbir generally admit none of the Imams practiced tatbir and argue that there's no particular pattern for Azadari. Tawassul has backings from Qur'an and Ahadith. Wilayat al-Faqih is again like the current topic with contradictory definitions and no substantial backing. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Demon King
2 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

This is the best explanation by far.

Ahsant Brother !! Very concrete

No Marajah, not even Top-Level (Akbar) Marajah of the past/present/future can do what Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) can do and He (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) is the one who will unite this earth and its inhabitants and provide prosperity and harmony.

There's a darker part of history wherein so called "Shiite Scholars" were involved in mass executions, so I certainly am not reclining on Scholars for this task. May Our Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) reappear soon.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

[Shakir 2:107] Do you not know that Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth, and that besides Allah you have no guardian or helper?

The real Government is when it ruled by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

That Government has already been established.  And Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has said in Qur'an 

Who are the Administrators...

[Shakir 4:59] O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.

 The Government of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) covers the seen and unseen world.

The human created temporary Government system through election was not opposed by Imams.  Imam Ali accepted it when he was elected as Khalifah.  So he was the Wali and Khalifah at the same time.

Human created Government system in this world is just a vehicle/ mean to unite people and ease their social interactions and management of assets and resources.

We create associations, institutions or organizations to achieve our social objectives.  If we put Islamic values to it, it will be islamic association, institution or organization.  For example, islamic Association of Washington State.  We can put Islamic values to a Government and name it as Islamic government of Iran  Pakistan, Afghanistan or Iraq...

Now, who should lead the human created Islamic Government?  If we want the government to follow Islamic values, should it be lead by an Aalim (or faghih).  There were no objections that a Faghih or anyone else leading the government as long as it is voted system.  Naturally, Faghih that understand politics is preferred to lead because of his knowledge and akhlaq would be examples for people to follow. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
7 hours ago, layman said:

[Shakir 2:107] Do you not know that Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth, and that besides Allah you have no guardian or helper?

The real Government is when it ruled by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

That Government has already been established.  And Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has said in Qur'an 

Who are the Administrators...

[Shakir 4:59] O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.

 The Government of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) covers the seen and unseen world.

The human created temporary Government system through election was not opposed by Imams.  Imam Ali accepted it when he was elected as Khalifah.  So he was the Wali and Khalifah at the same time.

Human created Government system in this world is just a vehicle/ mean to unite people and ease their social interactions and management of assets and resources.

We create associations, institutions or organizations to achieve our social objectives.  If we put Islamic values to it, it will be islamic association, institution or organization.  For example, islamic Association of Washington State.  We can put Islamic values to a Government and name it as Islamic government of Iran  Pakistan, Afghanistan or Iraq...

Now, who should lead the human created Islamic Government?  If we want the government to follow Islamic values, should it be lead by an Aalim (or faghih).  There were no objections that a Faghih or anyone else leading the government as long as it is voted system.  Naturally, Faghih that understand politics is preferred to lead because of his knowledge and akhlaq would be examples for people to follow. 

 

@Sirius_Bright @Mahdavist.

You have problem with a pious ,sincere and God-fearing muslim scholar to rule a muslim state so you oppose or dislike him.

And at same time if a corrupt, atheist or kafir will rule on your State you won't oppose.

But definitely I will try my best the government should be in hands Muslim scholars who are honesty and sincere.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
1 hour ago, Hadi5 said:

You have problem with a pious ,sincere and God-fearing muslim scholar to rule a muslim state so you oppose or dislike him.

I don't have a problem, I am simply asking for the evidence of your claims that this is an islamic obligation (somehow we don't have a single narration mentioning this?)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Development Team
1 hour ago, Hadi5 said:

You have problem with a pious ,sincere and God-fearing muslim scholar to rule a muslim state so you oppose or dislike him.

And at same time if a corrupt, atheist or kafir will rule on your State you won't oppose.

But definitely I will try my best the government should be in hands Muslim scholars who are honesty and sincere.

Anyone can rule. If a country elects a scholar then no one has any problem. Problem arises when you want an uprising to establish Islamic government. This action is in contrast to the actions of our Aimma (عليهم اسلام). 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Development Team
10 hours ago, Guest Demon King said:

Ahsant Brother !! Very concrete

No Marajah, not even Top-Level (Akbar) Marajah of the past/present/future can do what Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) can do and He (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) is the one who will unite this earth and its inhabitants and provide prosperity and harmony.

There's a darker part of history wherein so called "Shiite Scholars" were involved in mass executions, so I certainly am not reclining on Scholars for this task. May Our Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) reappear soon.

These scholars are as fallible as any other ruler. They can oppress and kill the same way. Only Imam (عليه السلام) can do justice. May our Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) reappear soon.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)
13 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Anyone can rule. If a country elects a scholar then no one has any problem. Problem arises when you want an uprising to establish Islamic government. This action is in contrast to the actions of our Aimma (عليهم اسلام). 

Salam there is many reports that Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) confirmed  Zayd ibn Ali (رضي الله عنه) revolt but clearly  didn't  support it & warned him that Zayd (رضي الله عنه) wouldn't  be successful .

Quote

The Standpoint of Imam al-Sadiq (a)

Zayd's revolt occurred during the imamate of Imam al-Sadiq (a), but the Imam (a) did not participate in the revolt, and there are no clear statements by Imam al-Sadiq (a) regarding the revolt. Some maintain that the fact that the Imam (a) did not participate in the revolt indicates his disagreement with it, however some others believe that while the Imam (a) was supportive of the revolt, he did not regard it beneficial to participate directly in the revolt. Some scholars such as al-Shahid al-Awwal, Ayatollah Khoei, and Mamaqani believe that Zayd b. Ali was permitted by Imam al-Sadiq (a) to revolt. In this regard, a hadith is adduced, which reports that Zayd consulted with Imam al-Sadiq (a) and the Imam (a) told him, "If you wish to be the one who will be hung in the midden of Kufa, this is the way." Adducing the same hadith, some other scholars hold that, although Zayd truly intended to hand over the caliphate to Imam al-Sadiq (a), the Imam (a) prohibited him from the revolt. Based on a hadith, Allama Tihrani too holds that Zayd's revolt was conducted without the Imam's (a) permission.

According to some hadiths from Imam al-Sadiq (a) and Imam al-Rida (a), Zayd intended to transfer the caliphate to Imam al-Sadiq (a). Al-Shaykh al-Mufid states that Zayd led his revolt to bring to power "the pleased one from the family of the Prophet (s)", and did not seek the caliphate for himself. Al-Allama al-Majlisi attributes this opinion to the majority of Twelver Shiite scholars and adds that he has not seen a different opinion from them.

According to al-Shaykh al-Mufid, when Imam al-Sadiq (a) was informed of the murder of Zayd, he was deeply affected and ordered that an amount of money be distributed among the families of those who had been killed in the revolt.

According to a hadith from Imam al-Sadiq (a), Hisham b. 'Abd al-Malik murdered Zayd b. Ali, so God overthrew his rule in return. In another hadith from the Imam (a) it is said that seven days after the Umayyads burnt Zayd's body, God willed to destroy them.

Zayd's revolt is said to have reduced the sensitivity of the Umayyads about the activities of the descendants of the Prophet (s), which allowed Imam al-Sadiq (a) to disseminate Shiite teachings and to promote Shiism.

Zayd's revolt is considered a step toward the overthrow of the Umayyad rule.

Among the factors that led to the failure of the revolt were the fact that the Kufans did not support him as was expected, the military power of the Umayyads, and the Umayyad agents that had infiltrated among the rebels are mentioned.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Uprising_of_Zayd_b._Ali

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Anyone can rule. If a country elects a scholar then no one has any problem. Problem arises when you want an uprising to establish Islamic government. This action is in contrast to the actions of our Aimma (عليهم اسلام). 

Forget Islamic government.

Iraqi people rebelled against sadam.And many got martyred and jailed.Hope you might have heared. Even Ayatullahs of Iraq got jailed and martyred. What do you say about it.

Behraini people are rebelled against Al khaalifa. And religious scholars were leading.Do they were going against Quran and Ahlebayt.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Development Team
3 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

Forget Islamic government.

Iraqi people rebelled against sadam.And many got martyred and jailed.Hope you might have heared. Even Ayatullahs of Iraq got jailed and martyred. What do you say about it.

Behraini people are rebelled against Al khaalifa. And religious scholars were leading.Do they were going against Quran and Ahlebayt.

Defending yourself is necessary. Amr bil Ma'ruf and nahi anil munkar is necessary. But revolting against a country where you are living in peace is foolish. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
11 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Defending yourself is necessary. Amr bil Ma'ruf and nahi anil munkar is necessary. But revolting against a country where you are living in peace is foolish. 

What is ment by Amar ba maruf and Nahi un munkir.

Iraqi Ayatullah simply opposed the unjust cruelty of Sadam. That means in place of Sadam a just and righteous person should be.

And this is Islamic politics.what is wrong in it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
46 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

What is ment by Amar ba maruf and Nahi un munkir.

Iraqi Ayatullah simply opposed the unjust cruelty of Sadam. That means in place of Sadam a just and righteous person should be.

And this is Islamic politics.what is wrong in it.

Why didn't Sistani take over the government after Saddam? Even though Iraq is classified as an Islamic Republic?? Does this mean Sistani is also a bad muslim? Why hasn't Sistani encourage Shia's to revolt against their own government? Does this mean he's a bad muslim?

If you can give me a concrete answer has to why Sistani hasn't encouraged Shia's all around the world to establish an Islamic government in their respective nations, Wallahi I will join you brother Hadi in your quest.

However the answer is very simple, an Islamic Government cannot exist without our Imam. Yes, we can attempt to establish a government like Iran, or Saudi, but, under the rule of men who can make errors in their judgement, interpretation and so forth, that's just 40% of a real islamic government. You need a divine being to govern, maintain, and spread the government. If all the muslims in the world revolted, and attempted to establish a Government we'd just have bled shed, chaos, and would be pointless. 

Also, why didn't Imam Ali, Imam Hasan, and various other Imams (besides imam Hussain ), encourage their Shias to revolt against the government. Yes they spoke out, ( as we do), but why didn't they straight out cause a war against their very own government? Again the answer is very simple, this would cause more destruction for the image of Islam, pointless bled shed, and more misguidance. 

What's funny is, if none of us can even answer this question on this post with a concrete answer, how can you expect us muslims to establish an Islamic government ? I mean Sistani has different ruling than Ayotullah Khamenei..... that shows that these men although very knowledgeable have very different interpretations in their fiqh.... meaning there is a chance for error . In a perfect Islamic government there is no such thing as error as its pure guidance from Allah. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
37 minutes ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

Why didn't Sistani take over the government after Saddam? Even though Iraq is classified as an Islamic Republic?? Does this mean Sistani is also a bad muslim? Why hasn't Sistani encourage Shia's to revolt against their own government? Does this mean he's a bad muslim?

If you can give me a concrete answer has to why Sistani hasn't encouraged Shia's all around the world to establish an Islamic government in their respective nations, Wallahi I will join you brother Hadi in your quest.

However the answer is very simple, an Islamic Government cannot exist without our Imam. Yes, we can attempt to establish a government like Iran, or Saudi, but, under the rule of men who can make errors in their judgement, interpretation and so forth, that's just 40% of a real islamic government. You need a divine being to govern, maintain, and spread the government. If all the muslims in the world revolted, and attempted to establish a Government we'd just have bled shed, chaos, and would be pointless. 

Also, why didn't Imam Ali, Imam Hasan, and various other Imams (besides imam Hussain ), encourage their Shias to revolt against the government. Yes they spoke out, ( as we do), but why didn't they straight out cause a war against their very own government? Again the answer is very simple, this would cause more destruction for the image of Islam, pointless bled shed, and more misguidance. 

What's funny is, if none of us can even answer this question on this post with a concrete answer, how can you expect us muslims to establish an Islamic government ? I mean Sistani has different ruling than Ayotullah Khamenei..... that shows that these men although very knowledgeable have very different interpretations in their fiqh.... meaning there is a chance for error . In a perfect Islamic government there is no such thing as error as its pure guidance from Allah. 

 

Mr. I am the muqalid of sistani.But at same time I believe in islamic poletics of Khomeini. That is Islam and politics is not one.

Two years back sistani criticized the Iraqi government for inability to govern properly or corruption.

Why did he do so?

Even you see there are many religious scholars in Iraqi parliament.

Why the religious scholars contrasted election or took part in politics. That means taking part in politics is not something wrong or unislamic.

I being the strong follower Khomeini believe that Muslim scholars should be in parliament, they should govern, . Naturally they won't pass any that against teachings of Quran and Ahlebayt as.They will promote thing's that is promoted by Quran and Ahlebayt as.

Now Sistani criticising Iraqi government too means the runner government are not good or incapable.( Meaning  either correct or changes) , Exactly same is what Khomeini and khamnai did.

They corrected and let  foreign controllers on Iran to leave.

But in Iraq still USA is their.And Iraqi government can't pass a bill that is against them.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
9 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

If the best argument for something being an islamic obligation is 'what is wrong with it?', then I think the conclusion is clear for everyone. 

It is obligation on Muslims to follow Quranic laws. In non muslim country they have no authority.

But at least Islamic country were Shias are majority , I think there should be reason to not implement and follow Quranic laws.

 

Edited by Hadi5
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
26 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

Mr. I am the muqalid of sistani.But at same time I believe in islamic poletics of Khomeini. That is Islam and politics is not one.

Two years back sistani criticized the Iraqi government for inability to govern properly or corruption.

Why did he do so?

Even you see there are many religious scholars in Iraqi parliament.

Why the religious scholars contrasted election or took part in politics. That means taking part in politics is not something wrong or unislamic.

I being the strong follower Khomeini believe that Muslim scholars should be in parliament, they should govern, . Naturally they won't pass any that against teachings of Quran and Ahlebayt as.They will promote thing's that is promoted by Quran and Ahlebayt as.

Now Sistani criticising Iraqi government too means the runner government are not good or incapable.( Meaning  either correct or changes) , Exactly same is what Khomeini and khamnai did.

They corrected and let  foreign controllers on Iran to leave.

But in Iraq still USA is their.And Iraqi government can't pass a bill that is against them.

 

Not a strong answer. Firstly, government is a new concept as it did not exist during the time of the prophet, it came into the muslim community after the prophets death. The Quran further proves this has there are countless ayats that explain God has chosen men to guide their communities. 

Secondly, your arguments are more of your own interpretations, rather than concrete information from the Quran, or hadiths. You are under assumption that if we don't want to actively develop an Islamic state in our respective nation, that we somehow aren't muslim (although you still haven't provided an argument that supports this is a wajib act a muslim must do). Currently, I am living in the West, and have no issues practicing my faith. You just want to force Islam on other people. If you say my government is corrupt, then HBB look at Iran, they have done many corrupt things over the years (and they have an Ayotullah as their head of government). Iran itself has issues with drugs, sex trafficking, and many other issues that other nations face in the world. 

There are many ways a muslim can show displeasure in the action of their government such as peaceful protests... BTW and this is in accordance with what our Imams have promoted. 

It appears you just have am issue with the governments actions, and would like to force Islam on other people. 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
24 minutes ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

Not a strong answer. Firstly, government is a new concept as it did not exist during the time of the prophet, it came into the muslim community after the prophets death. The Quran further proves this has there are countless ayats that explain God has chosen men to guide their communities. 

Secondly, your arguments are more of your own interpretations, rather than concrete information from the Quran, or hadiths. You are under assumption that if we don't want to actively develop an Islamic state in our respective nation, that we somehow aren't muslim (although you still haven't provided an argument that supports this is a wajib act a muslim must do). Currently, I am living in the West, and have no issues practicing my faith. You just want to force Islam on other people. If you say my government is corrupt, then HBB look at Iran, they have done many corrupt things over the years (and they have an Ayotullah as their head of government). Iran itself has issues with drugs, sex trafficking, and many other issues that other nations face in the world. 

There are many ways a muslim can show displeasure in the action of their government such as peaceful protests... BTW and this is in accordance with what our Imams have promoted. 

It appears you just have am issue with the governments actions, and would like to force Islam on other people. 

 

 

 

 

Brother you just read history of battles of Holy Prophet saw.

Second Sistanis State about whom to be voted.

Sistanis futwa in defending country.

Third how to follow Quranic law's.

You yourself promotes peaceful protests to show displeasure. So you to enter in politics by promoting protest

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
5 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

Brother you just read history of battles of Holy Prophet saw.

Second Sistanis State about whom to be voted.

Sistanis futwa in defending country.

Third how to follow Quranic law's.

You yourself promotes peaceful protests to show displeasure. So you to enter in politics by promoting protest

1. This was a divine being- most of the Prophet's battles were actually in self defence. 

2. So? Sistani had an opportunity to become head of state and did not...... 

3. Quran has limited Islamic laws... most of our Islamic laws come from the prophets, and Imams... 

4. Iran has countless protests each year.. they are an Islamic Republic, does this mean the Ayotullah is failing ? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
2 minutes ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

1. This was a divine being- most of the Prophet's battles were actually in self defence. 

2. So? Sistani had an opportunity to become head of state and did not...... 

3. Quran has limited Islamic laws... most of our Islamic laws come from the prophets, and Imams... 

4. Iran has countless protests each year.. they are an Islamic Republic, does this mean the Ayotullah is failing ? 

Laws from quran all most all.

Irani protests is because poorty from sanctions

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
5 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

Laws from quran all most all.

Irani protests is because poorty from sanctions

 

Laws from the Quran apply to an individuals way of life, and daily occurrences. The Quran does not contain information on how to develop, maintain, and operate an Islamic government. 

Irans protests highlight the ineffective ability of the government to provide for its people, and operate on an International level with other nations. 

Edited by YoungSkiekh313
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
6 minutes ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

Laws from the Quran apply to an individuals way of life, and daily occurrences. The Quran does not contain information on how to develop, maintain, and operate an Islamic government. 

Irans protests highlight the ineffective ability of the government to provide for its people, and operate on an International level with other nations. 

How do imam Ali was using baitul maal.

Who will give justice killer of innocent.

Who prohabit openly selling alcohol.

Who will implement interest free banking.

Who give judgement on adultery.

Who will onuter if our are is occupied by infielders.

Why did Imam Ali changed governers.

What about najulbalagah letters about governers how to govern.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators

The reason why an Islamic government wasn't attempted by the Imams((عليه السلام)), except Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) was because of the actions of the people, it had nothing to do with them. All the Imams((عليه السلام)) had hadith to the effect of 'If I had x number of true followers, I would rise up...' . X was usually less than 100. 

What this means is that the vast majority of people who were calling for such as government were not sincere and had a plan behind the scenes, whether explicitly or implicitly to use this government to grab whatever they could grab for themselves or their tribe / family or they were weak people all together and when the fighting started, and the hardships started they would flee. So they couldn't be depended on. 

The Imams knew this and Imam Mehdi(a.f.s) surely knows this and this is why he is waiting for his real, strong supporters to reach the critical number where he will be able to succeed against the Kufar and Taghut and establish this government. If he didn't wait for this, another Karbala would happen, and this is not an option since he is the final Hujjat (proof of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) on the earth). 

This doesn't mean that muslims and muimin shouldn't be involved in politics and try to establish Haqq in whatever way they can. But if they have to compromise their religion to do this, then they should stay out of it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...