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In the Name of God بسم الله

Struggle to establish Islamic government

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  • Advanced Member
1 minute ago, Sirius_Bright said:

We should definitely spread message of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) but this is different than establishing Islamic government.

please dont dismotivate the youth coz we are soo done with the corrupt world we live in...seriously it needs to stop right now!!

we see things what our grandparents didnt see.. yet we all still choses to stay on the path of allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for example: what is upp what those legalisations of abnormal stuff like pedophilia,LGBT,rape and much more stuff....  we youth are really motivated to change this world into a much more better world!!! 

if our past generations arent going to help us then fine... allah is always with the youth and we and our next generations will make an end of this disguisting corruption made by the generations before us...

 

6 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

When did they tried? What did Imam Taqi (عليه السلام) did to establish Islamic government? 

11 minutes ago, F.M said:

imam al taqi as got killed really young but still he tried

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I believe I can perfectly follow Islam even in non-muslim country. 

There's a saying " think of Allah before, and after the action". If we are living in a country where we are able to live peacefully, and practice our religious beliefs freely why create an uprise wher

Alright then. Start a fund raiser then send me the money, I will send you a shipment of water guns, paint sprays to draw graffiti and slogans on city walls, as well as gas masks when the police uses t

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13 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

@Hadi5 Can you please tell why most of our Imams (عليهم اسلام) didn't try to establish Islamic government. 

When anyone studies a little or pays a little attention to the rules of Islamic government, Islamic politics, Islamic society and Islamic economy he will realize that Islam is a very political religion. Anyone who will say that religion is separate from politics is a fool; he does not know Islam or politics.

Imam Khomeini.

Brother is it good if you say to Iranian government change your Islamic laws from government.Because non of Imam did.

But apply western laws were alcohol, prostitution, gay marriage is allowed and hijab is banned.

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4 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

When anyone studies a little or pays a little attention to the rules of Islamic government, Islamic politics, Islamic society and Islamic economy he will realize that Islam is a very political religion. Anyone who will say that religion is separate from politics is a fool; he does not know Islam or politics.

Imam Khomeini.

Brother is it good if you say to Iranian government change your Islamic laws from government.Because non of Imam did.

But apply western laws were alcohol, prostitution, gay marriage is allowed and hijab is banned.

What is an Islamic government in your perspective........

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7 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

Brother you are right.

The Islamic nations have good resources, but may people are poor, poor education or health facility.

If we can use our sources wisely, we remove poorty and ignorance and suffering.

More important our all laws will be Islamic, and easily availability of nude, drugs ,acohol etc will be checked.

It will ease the following Quranic laws and delivery of justice.

thanks brother but i am an sister :muslima:

indeed!! if we use all our science and brains then we can actually create all together a shia government and prepare us each of us wisely for his pleasent reapereance... cos really this disguisting world needs to stop elsewere we get in danger and our offspring!!

also if we work smart then we can actually not put our live in danger... we can open an governemnt behind the curtain.. the curtain (our knowledge) is able to hide us wile we are spreading our messsages and preparing for his return

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2 minutes ago, F.M said:

thanks brother but i am an sister :muslima:

indeed!! if we use all our science and brains then we can actually create all together a shia government and prepare us each of us wisely for his pleasent reapereance... cos really this disguisting world needs to stop elsewere we get in danger and our offspring!!

also if we work smart then we can actually not put our live in danger... we can open an governemnt behind the curtain.. the curtain (our knowledge) is able to hide us wile we are spreading our messsages and preparing for his return

You are right.

I don't mean Islamic government in west or other non muslim state.But Islamic government in muslim nations.Hopefully Allah's favour will help us , if struggle with sincerety

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Just now, Hadi5 said:

You are right.

I don't mean Islamic government in west or other non muslim state.But Islamic government in muslim nations.Hopefully Allah's favour will help us , if struggle with sincerety

the entire world needs to change including western life. 

may allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) help us reaching that

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8 minutes ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

What is an Islamic government in your perspective........

islamic governemnt should rather be changed into a normal governemnt who is against injustice and tyrany.. we live into a huge mess satanic/demonic governement ( world who is getting ruled by the most dumb people who like to kill people who want a peacefull world) 

thats what we all mean with islamic government... we cant reach an islamic government cause only imam al mahdi aj is able to do such thing... but we can prepare his way by already being busy staying againt injuistice,corruption etc... we should not only say it but also practising it and making an end of this dumb world

 

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1 minute ago, F.M said:

the entire world needs to change including western life. 

may allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) help us reaching that

Yes.

But what is my observation world  has become a hell.No humanity and ethical values, no peace.

We have quran, unfortunately that either not read and learned.

If some read least is being applied.

Allah has already Said that peace lies in remembering Allah.

And following his rules.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, F.M said:

islamic governemnt should rather be changed into a normal governemnt who is against injustice and tyrany.. we live into a huge mess satanic/demonic governement ( world who is getting ruled by the most dumb people who like to kill people who want a peacefull world) 

thats what we all mean with islamic government... we cant reach an islamic government cause only imam al mahdi aj is able to do such thing... but we can prepare his way by already being busy staying againt injuistice,corruption etc... we should not only say it but also practising it and making an end of this dumb world

 

This literally sums up my position on this topic LOL......................

and btw that's not an Islamic government.. that's a Utopia.....

Edited by YoungSkiekh313
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29 minutes ago, F.M said:

please dont dismotivate the youth coz we are soo done with the corrupt world we live in...seriously it needs to stop right now!!

we see things what our grandparents didnt see.. yet we all still choses to stay on the path of allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for example: what is upp what those legalisations of abnormal stuff like pedophilia,LGBT,rape and much more stuff....  we youth are really motivated to change this world into a much more better world!!! 

if our past generations arent going to help us then fine... allah is always with the youth and we and our next generations will make an end of this disguisting corruption made by the generations before us...

How I'm demotivating you. I'm saying go and spread message of Ahlulbayt (عليهم اسلام). This is indeed one of the best deeds. 

29 minutes ago, F.M said:

imam al taqi as got killed really young but still he tried

But when? Any narrations, incidents? 

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14 minutes ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

What is an Islamic government in your perspective........

That is a nice question.

I may err.But what I have understood is following.

Your government, judiciary and economics should all based on Quranic laws.

A strong judiciary where no criminal will have chance to escape from Islamic penal code.

Zakat and khums collection and delivery system as prescribed by Allah .If you use it and your resource's you have much more than what you need to live happy Life and no one will remain poor and needy, rather you can donte needy nations without expection of return and other intrests.

Your all foreign policy should not br an expansionism but to support oppressed.

There should be Universities where a good emphasis should b on Islamic ethical values. So that in addition to science we will read and learn how to purify from sin and cultivate ethical values so that we are acceptable to Allah.

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30 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

When anyone studies a little or pays a little attention to the rules of Islamic government, Islamic politics, Islamic society and Islamic economy he will realize that Islam is a very political religion. Anyone who will say that religion is separate from politics is a fool; he does not know Islam or politics.

Imam Khomeini.

I have 12 Imams and Khomeini is not one of them. So quoting him randomly won't make me change my thoughts. If you have anything from one of the 12 Imams (عليهم اسلام) on the lines of 'strive to establish Islamic government... ', do let me know. 

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3 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

I have 12 Imams and Khomeini is not one of them. So quoting him randomly won't make me change my thoughts. If you have anything from one of the 12 Imams (عليهم اسلام) on the lines of 'strive to establish Islamic government... ', do let me know. 

I know what Imams did. That is what we have to try.

If you don't like Islamic system and Islamic laws. Then be happy with prostitution centres , alcohol and gambling in you neighborhood

But those who like and love to have Islamic system of government and laws don't oppose thrm

Allah gave Quran to holy Prophet saw not to keep at shelf but invite people to follow and implement it.

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15 minutes ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

This literally sums up my position on this topic LOL......................

and btw that's not an Islamic government.. that's a Utopia.....

then well said brother

may allah bless you endlessly and make an end of corruption

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

That is a nice question.

I may err.But what I have understood is following.

Your government, judiciary and economics should all based on Quranic laws.

A strong judiciary where no criminal will have chance to escape from Islamic penal code.

Zakat and khums collection and delivery system as prescribed by Allah .If you use it and your resource's you have much more than what you need to live happy Life and no one will remain poor and needy, rather you can donte needy nations without expection of return and other intrests.

Your all foreign policy should not br an expansionism but to support oppressed.

There should be Universities where a good emphasis should b on Islamic ethical values. So that in addition to science we will read and learn how to purify from sin and cultivate ethical values so that we are acceptable to Allah.

This is not government, this is sharia... there is no such thing in Islam as government..... as the leaders are divinely elected by Allah. It's their right to be the governing leader... as a government is usually formed through a democracy. So, if you wish to create an Islamic government, that I believe would be run by an elected official... you are going against the Quran.... 

I'll take my W .... 

 

 

 

Edited by YoungSkiekh313
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4 minutes ago, F.M said:

then well said brother

may allah bless you endlessly and make an end of corruption

Thanks sister, I'm glad you posted. It takes a ton of courage to speak your mind on a topic, I hope to see many more comments from you in the future. 

At the end of the day, we can all agree to disagree. No hard feelings, and all respectful. 

All the best. 

 

WS 

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1 minute ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

This is not government, this is sharia... there is no such thing is Islam as government..... as the leaders are divinely elected by Allah. So, if you wish to create an Islamic government, that I believe would be run by an elected official... you are going against the Quran.... 

I'll take my W .... 

 

 

 

Yes, you are right.

This needs an election.But can't . No that is not against Quran.

How it is against quran. I know the one elected by us might not be perfect.But at least we can have a system which will have minimum chance of error. Is that wrong.

Tell me what is wrong if we struggle to have a government where

Intrest is banned.

Alcohol is banned,

Prostitution is banned.

Gay marriage etc is banned.

Punishment is what Quran says

And so on.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

Yes, you are right.

This needs an election.But can't . No that is not against Quran.

How it is against quran. I know the one elected by us might not be perfect.But at least we can have a system which will have minimum chance of error. Is that wrong.

Tell me what is wrong if we struggle to have a government where

Intrest is banned.

Alcohol is banned,

Prostitution is banned.

Gay marriage etc is banned.

Punishment is what Quran says

And so on.

You speak so much about the Quran , but cannot find the ayats in the Quran that explain Allah points his elected officials on earth?

You are talking like a wahabi with all of this Quran, Quran ,Quran. Bother Quran is great, but you cannot interpret it... this is why we have the Imams. They can interpret the Quran better than any of us can. They understand the deeper meanings, brother you are acting like an extremist. Please, 

Go to Saudi, you'll enjoy your life day. 

WS. 

Edited by YoungSkiekh313
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17 minutes ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

This is not government, this is sharia... there is no such thing in Islam as government..... as the leaders are divinely elected by Allah. It's their right to be the governing leader... as a government is usually formed through a democracy. So, if you wish to create an Islamic government, that I believe would be run by an elected official... you are going against the Quran.... 

I'll take my W .... 

 

 

 

 Brother I feel we have good scholars arrond world.we should listen to them.

I have I heard a lecture by scholar from Qum. Who gave the importance of having the government in hands of successor of 12th Imam just like we have khamnai.

Even by common sense there should be gavernmt runned by those who mujtahids.

I don't think any Shia will oppose of having government runned by mujtahids.

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13 minutes ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

You speak so much about the Quran , but cannot find the ayats in the Quran that explain Allah points his elected officials on earth?

You are talking like a wahabi with all of this Quran, Quran ,Quran. Bother Quran is great, but you cannot interpret it... this is why we have the Imams. They can interpret the Quran better than any of us can. They understand the deeper meanings, brother you are acting like an extremist. Please, 

Go to Saudi, you'll enjoy your life day. 

WS. 

Sorry'.

Definitely if I see oppression and unislamic culture and law's against Islam every where, I will go there where minimum Islamic law is followed .be it saudi, Iran or Pakistan.

Khomeini threw away Shah from , did he do good or bad.

Then he implemented the law's taught by Quran and Ahlebayt as.

Was that good or bad .

I think you should go to Iran tell them close Qum, ban Islamic laws and let western laws be followed in letter and sprit.

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عَنْهُ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنِ الْحُسَيْنِ بْنِ سَعِيدٍ عَنْ حَمَّادِ بْنِ عِيسَى عَنِ الْحُسَيْنِ بْنِ الْمُخْتَارِ عَنْ أَبِي بَصِيرٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالَ كُلُّ رَايَةٍ تُرْفَعُ قَبْلَ قِيَامِ الْقَائِمِ فَصَاحِبُهَا طَاغُوتٌ يُعْبَدُ مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ

From Abī Baṣīr from Abī `Abd Allāh (عليه السلام) said: “Every standard (banner) that is raised before the rising of al-Qā’im (عليه السلام), then its owner is a tāghūt being worshipped apart from Allāh (عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ)”

Reference:

al-Kaafi, vol. 8, pg. 295, hadeeth # 452 by Shaykh Kulayni (AR)

 

Inshallah, the beloved Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) will reappear soon and He (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) will tend to the responsibility of entire implication of all the commands of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) on this earth so we don't have to worry about that nor the creation of Islamic government. The crux is how we reform ourselves and absolutely submit ourselves to the wishes of Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) learning from the example of Hazrat Abal Fazl Abbas ibn Ali (عليه السلام), Haroon Al-Makki (AR).

The question we ought to ask is since there are few millions of "Shias" in this world, why hasn't Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) reappeared yet, even though only 40 persons are required for Him (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) to reappear?

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2 hours ago, F.M said:

also Netherlands.. please dont forget us!! and lots of other countries..

this corrupt world should end as soon as possible!!

 

Alright then. Start a fund raiser then send me the money, I will send you a shipment of water guns, paint sprays to draw graffiti and slogans on city walls, as well as gas masks when the police uses tear gas. When the time is right, Brother @Hadi5 will be flown in to lead the revolution and topple democracy. He will erect the perfect, purely Islamic government and come up with the perfect and pure Islamic set of legislation for your new Islamic regime. It will be perfect and pure this time (unlike the other example). Or we will all get tear gassed to death trying.!~ It will not be sanctioned like the other example because we will have better, improved and younger leadership. It will not be toppled by Murica. Its people will not be denied essential medicine under sanctions. Medicines like those necessary for dental fillings or those for upset stomach UNLIKE the other not-as-pure example. We will win!!!~^^^

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3 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

Alright then. Start a fund raiser then send me the money, I will send you a shipment of water guns, paint sprays to draw graffiti and slogans on city walls, as well as gas masks when the police uses tear gas. When the time is right, Brother @Hadi5 will be flown in to lead the revolution and topple democracy. He will erect the perfect, purely Islamic government and come up with the perfect and pure Islamic set of legislation for your new Islamic regime. It will be perfect and pure this time (unlike the other example). Or we will all get tear gassed to death trying.!~ It will not be sanctioned like the other example because we will have better, improved and younger leadership. It will not be toppled by Murica. Its people will not be denied essential medicine under sanctions. Medicines like those necessary for dental fillings or those for upset stomach UNLIKE the other not-as-pure example. We will win!!!~^^^

We have some Hunger Games action going on here. 

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5 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

It will not be sanctioned like the other example because we will have better, improved and younger leadership. It will not be toppled by Murica. Its people will not be denied essential medicine under sanctions. Medicines like those necessary for dental fillings or those for upset stomach UNLIKE the other not-as-pure example. We will win!!

Can you elaborate it what do you mean it will not be sanctioned.

Let me say 

They will try to stop and threat you if you try Islamic government. Because they have no problem by your practising Islam at home but they won't allow government having froeign policy based on Islam.

Because you have to oppose their  unjust ,opressive and arrogance behaviour  if you have Islamic government.But be ready for sanctions.

Before fund raising at least we  should have  some love for Islamic character and apply in our day to day life  before expecting from others. By Islamic character I mean honesty, sincerety, truthfulness, tolerance, humility and love for other fellow humans irrespective of color, creed and religion.

we have to motivate and sensitise our brothers towards it.

And more important tame our ego, arrogance, lust and love for wealth.

Hope Allah will be our Helper and Guardian.

If we don't have Islamic character in ourselves then there is no fun of thinking of Islamic government.

 

 

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Brother it's not about establishing new government to completely topple the old ones. It's more about reforming the system and topple the unjust people who spreads corruption and evil among us in our nations. Also the revolution can be done in a smarter way. We have social medias now, it's in the hands of us normal people, where our voice can be heard from people across the world. Spread the messages of Al-Husayn ((عليه السلام)) across the world! Let the world know how 14.5 million people walked together in one spirit, the spirit of vengeance and resistance against oppression!!

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7 hours ago, Guest TheAnticipator12 said:

Brother it's not about establishing new government to completely topple the old ones. It's more about reforming the system and topple the unjust people who spreads corruption and evil among us in our nations. Also the revolution can be done in a smarter way. We have social medias now, it's in the hands of us normal people, where our voice can be heard from people across the world. Spread the messages of Al-Husayn ((عليه السلام)) across the world! Let the world know how 14.5 million people walked together in one spirit, the spirit of vengeance and resistance against oppression!!

That is right.

But it should be first in countries where Muslims are in majority. I don't think you have to topple government there but.

You to only change the law and banking system.

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On 10/8/2020 at 9:08 PM, The Green Knight said:

Alright then. Start a fund raiser then send me the money, I will send you a shipment of water guns, paint sprays to draw graffiti and slogans on city walls, as well as gas masks when the police uses tear gas. When the time is right, 

you really think i am a child and joking... 

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Islam obligates us to pray five times a day, to fast in Ramadan, to give Zakat, to offer Hajj once in our lifetime, to command what is good and forbid what is evil, to speak the truth and to stand for justice.

But where does Islam obligate anyone to establish an actual state or government? I seemed to have missed that verse in the Quran?

All this language of “establishing a state” “toppling the rulers” is totally foreign to Islam. “State” “topple” “system” where is this vocabulary in the Quran?

We need to thoroughly detoxify people's minds from Marxism and Leninism

Edited by Cherub786
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4 hours ago, F.M said:

you really think i am a child and joking... 

Don't take him seriously. InsahaAllah everything will be good.We have to struggle intelligently .

But it is need to sensitise Muslims about importance Islamic government ,.

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49 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

Islam obligates us to pray five times a day, to fast in Ramadan, to give Zakat, to offer Hajj once in our lifetime, to command what is good and forbid what is evil, to speak the truth and to stand for justice.

But where does Islam obligate anyone to establish an actual state or government? I seemed to have missed that verse in the Quran?

All this language of “establishing a state” “toppling the rulers” is totally foreign to Islam. “State” “topple” “system” where is this vocabulary in the Quran?

We need to thoroughly detoxify people's minds from Marxism and Leninism

Brother you are wrong.

Did Prophet saw only do salat and fasty .

Or established Islamic penal code also.

Do you think my government should permit, acohol, free sex, prostitution , intrest etc and I will be happy.

Do mean Khomeini did wrong he established Islamic government and prohibited things which are haram in Islam at government level.

Think over it.

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18 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

Brother you are wrong.

Did Prophet saw only do salat and fasty .

Or established Islamic penal code also.

Do you think my government should permit, acohol, free sex, prostitution , intrest etc and I will be happy.

Do mean Khomeini did wrong he established Islamic government and prohibited things which are haram in Islam at government level.

Think over it.

Pardon me, but you’re response is nothing but non-sequitur.

The issue is where does Islam obligate or teach us to establish an actual State?

I’m not saying that if there is a state it isn't religiously and morally obligated to prevent vices like alcohol, prostitution and interest.

But my question is, where is the imperative to establish a State in the first place?

As for Khomeini, I think he was wrong to revolt against the Shah of Iran as a matter of principle. Then when he did seize power for himself, he was in the wrong to liquidate the political opposition and all manner of dissent, and to basically repeat the same human rights violations he rightly criticized the Shah’s regime for.

What Khomeini established was a mulla-cracy something that has no precedent in the history of Islam.

Mulla-cracy and Mulla-ism are to be rejected.

Edited by Cherub786
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10 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

Pardon me, but you’re response is nothing but non-sequitur.

The issue is where does Islam obligate or teach us to establish an actual State?

I’m not saying that if there is a state it is religiously and morally obligated to prevent vices like alcohol, prostitution and interest.

But my question is, where is the imperative to establish a State in the first place?

As for Khomeini, I think he was wrong to revolt against the Shah of Iran as a matter of principle. Then when he did seize power for himself, he was in the wrong to liquidate the political opposition and all manner of dissent, and to basically repeat the same human rights violations he rightly criticized the Shah’s regime for.

What Khomeini established was a mulla-cracy something that has no precedent in the history of Islam.

Mulla-cracy and Mulla-ism are to be rejected.

So Muawyiya and yazeed did right that they changed sunnah of Prophet saw.

And God forbid Imam Hussain was wrong that he oppressed.

Mukhtar was wrong who toppled Yazeed government.

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1 minute ago, Hadi5 said:

So Muawyiya and yazeed did right that they changed sunnah of Prophet saw.

Another non-sequitur. I think you simply fail to comprehend what I’ve written.

1 minute ago, Hadi5 said:

And God forbid Imam Hussain was wrong that he oppressed.

Who did he oppress?

2 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

Mukhtar was wrong who toppled Yazeed government.

Yazid died before Mukhtar "toppled" anything. Brush up on your history.

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Just now, Cherub786 said:

Another non-sequitur. I think you simply fail to comprehend what I’ve written.

Who did he oppress?

Yazid died before Mukhtar "toppled" anything. Brush up on your history.

I know.

I mean the kingdom establish by Muawyiya and Yazeed.

And Mukhtar himself became the Amir of kufa.

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