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In the Name of God بسم الله

Struggle to establish Islamic government

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We are all Muslims.And our prosperity in this world and hereafter lies in following Islamic laws as prescribed by Allah and followed by Ahlebayt as. But most of laws need a State government based on Islamic law which is capable and authorised to implement the Islamic laws.

But how much we are serious about it and do we have struggled to establish it?

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I believe I can perfectly follow Islam even in non-muslim country. 

There's a saying " think of Allah before, and after the action". If we are living in a country where we are able to live peacefully, and practice our religious beliefs freely why create an uprise wher

Alright then. Start a fund raiser then send me the money, I will send you a shipment of water guns, paint sprays to draw graffiti and slogans on city walls, as well as gas masks when the police uses t

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31 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

I suggest we establish this government in the UK and Australia and Canada and India (pick one or all).

It must be perfect and pure this time. I am serious.

This is not for those nations were Muslims are small in number.

I mean in those nations where Muslims are in majority.So that laws prescribed by Allah will not remain restricted to Quran only.

But it will be practically in our day to day life and in our judiciary and government.

So that injustice and poverty, inequality will be eliminated also

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11 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

This is not for those nations were Muslims are small in number.

But why not? The Quran tells us 1 Muslim = 20 infidels in conflicts. Besides the purest most faithful most satiated most educated cream of muslim ummah is in those countries. Fed capable soldiers fight better than hungry impure ones.

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13 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

But why not? The Quran tells us 1 Muslim = 20 infidels in conflicts. Besides the purest most faithful most satiated most educated cream of muslim ummah is in those countries. Fed capable soldiers fight better than hungry impure ones.

No.

It is not like that.Defnitely there are many ignoranta and criminal.

But at least law should be quranic and those incharge for implementing it should be pious and sincere scholars. So that people in general live a prosperous life based in equality and justice 

One muslim =20 should be interpreted logically and baaed on Islamic ettiquits.

Not as if one muslim has to kill infidel even if ratio is 1 :20.

 

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2 hours ago, Hadi5 said:

But how much we are serious about it and do we have struggled to establish it?

Personally, l believe we are about when the lmam goes active . . . 20 years. Then lsamic gov't will be mostly a local thing as most of the World will be reacting to Hojjattallah.

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5 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Personally, l believe we are about when the lmam goes active . . . 20 years. Then lsamic gov't will be mostly a local thing as most of the World will be reacting to Hojjattallah.

You mean we should not.

How sure you are it's about 20 years.

It may be 200 years or more.

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41 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

You mean we should not.

How sure you are it's about 20 years.

It may be 200 years or more.

l did not write "should not."

And l ain't "sure" about 20 years anymore than the lmam himself is.

lt is what l believe.

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4 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

Astonishing.

Brothers it seems you are at an impasse.

Let's break this impasse. What part of Islam do you think I cannot follow. What obligatory act do I have to miss because I am in a non-muslim country. 

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30 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Let's break this impasse. What part of Islam do you think I cannot follow. What obligatory act do I have to miss because I am in a non-muslim country. 

Islam is not only fasting and prayrr.

How many divine laws are implemented in your country.

Is Alcohol allowed to be sold,

I's intrest (Sood) being taken and given by banks,

Is prostitution allowed and not prohibited.

What punishment do your government give for rapist, theif, etc.

What side of your country takes in world conglucts  So on and so forth.

Do people believe they will get justice.

Is corruption rampant or controlled.

Is your government in hands those who are greedy for mony, wealth and position.

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10 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

I suggest we establish this government in the UK and Australia and Canada and India (pick one or all).

It must be perfect and pure this time. I am serious.

Salam .

What made you to suggest those three countries for Islamic government. Either your kidding or not aware of obstacles in.

I may say to establish Islamic government based laws brought by Mohamad saww is a good and need of time.

But it should be first in Islamic nations.Because practically it will be easy because majority is of Muslims..

But how to establish it is a big challenge. At least the leaders must be those who have  good noble ethical triats,and are not  lovers of world.

Imam Khomeini said one who loves world( money and authority etc) can't do jihad.

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53 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

Islam is not only fasting and prayrr.

How many divine laws are implemented in your country.

Is Alcohol allowed to be sold,

I's intrest (Sood) being taken and given by banks,

Is prostitution allowed and not prohibited.

What punishment do your government give for rapist, theif, etc.

What side of your country takes in world conglucts  So on and so forth.

Do people believe they will get justice.

Is corruption rampant or controlled.

Is your government in hands those who are greedy for mony, wealth and position.

I understand but still, you can find prostitution, alcohol, interest, usury etc practiced privately in Muslim countries. 

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2 minutes ago, Diaz said:

I understand but still, you can find prostitution, alcohol, interest, usury etc practiced privately in Muslim countries. 

Yes.

But those are not contraries based Islamic law either there is kingdom or secular. And they drowned in worldly affairs

I mean a government based on purely Islamic laws. No law outside side Quran.

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Salam, 

Iran has been attempting to establish an Islamic government, but, to 100% get there they need a divine leader ( Imam Mahdi). Without the Imam, we cannot have an Islamic government that'll reach around the globe. We can realistically get to 40%, but require the Imam, and a global partnership to implement a just Islamic government. The struggle in itself is, many people will not want an Islamic government due to the drastic change it'll bring. Just look at 50 years after the prophets death, and you'll understand why we need divine leaders to lead in establishing, and maintaining an Islamic government. 

It's unrealistic to say that Canada, the UK, and other foreign nations are prime locations to set up an Islamic government. Although these nations have done great work at accommodating various religions, the established government requires a strong leader ( Imam Mahdi) to enable the people to see their error and invoke change. No man can change these government in a years time, it'll take a very LONG time.

We as muslims need to create an environment were the Imam can come in, build up the government, and do his duties. Right now, it's not our responsibility to form a government, it's our responsibility to develop the foundations for our Imam. He'll make the government, we'll simply aid him. 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

Salam, 

Iran has been attempting to establish an Islamic government, but, to 100% get there they need a divine leader ( Imam Mahdi). Without the Imam, we cannot have an Islamic government that'll reach around the globe. We can realistically get to 40%, but require the Imam, and a global partnership to implement a just Islamic government. The struggle in itself is, many people will not want an Islamic government due to the drastic change it'll bring. Just look at 50 years after the prophets death, and you'll understand why we need divine leaders to lead in establishing, and maintaining an Islamic government. 

It's unrealistic to say that Canada, the UK, and other foreign nations are prime locations to set up an Islamic government. Although these nations have done great work at accommodating various religions, the established government requires a strong leader ( Imam Mahdi) to enable the people to see their error and invoke change. No man can change these government in a years time, it'll take a very LONG time.

We as muslims need to create an environment were the Imam can come in, build up the government, and do his duties. Right now, it's not our responsibility to form a government, it's our responsibility to develop the foundations for our Imam. He'll make the government, we'll simply aid him. 

 

 

 

 

You have rightly said.

But I think you are not right that we should establish Islamic government. And you keep it on Imam Mahdi.

Your individually living Islamic life is not sufficient until you don't have your own government baaed on Islamic laws.

The establishing Islamic government is the foundation for 12th Imam.

I may say if you don't have Islamic government ,your coming and next generation will gradually go away from Islam and Islamic teachings.

Just see Iran and Saudi despite having Islamic government still there reasonable deviation amongst New generation.

The condition of muslims in other muslim majority and non muslim countries is not good in terms following Islamic rules.

Because westernization and attachment to World growing day by day and Islamic values and teachings become less important or outedated or lost 

I am not saying Islamic government in Europe and Australia but at least in Iraq, Pakistan and Azarbaijan, UAE .etc

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15 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

I am not saying Islamic government in Europe and Australia but at least in Iraq, Pakistan and Azarbaijan, UAE .etc

Why? I insist that you start your jihad for islamic government right where you are. What hypocrisy is this? Make your Shia ISIS in your own country bro. Ruin it all you want.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

Why? I insist that you start your jihad for islamic government right where you are. What hypocrisy is this? Make your Shia ISIS in your own country bro. Ruin it all you want.

I don't understand what you mean by shia ISIS.

I didn't forced you to do struggle. You may dislike Islamic government ,because  for you Islamic government means ISIS.

I may say ISIS has not done more damage by killing innocnts but by making people to think that Islamic government means innocent blood shed and destruction.

I think you should research and think about Islamic values before expressing your feelings about Islamic government

 

Edited by Hadi5
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41 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

You have rightly said.

But I think you are not right that we should establish Islamic government. And you keep it on Imam Mahdi.

Your individually living Islamic life is not sufficient until you don't have your own government baaed on Islamic laws.

The establishing Islamic government is the foundation for 12th Imam.

I may say if you don't have Islamic government ,your coming and next generation will gradually go away from Islam and Islamic teachings.

Just see Iran and Saudi despite having Islamic government still there reasonable deviation amongst New generation.

The condition of muslims in other muslim majority and non muslim countries is not good in terms following Islamic rules.

Because westernization and attachment to World growing day by day and Islamic values and teachings become less important or outedated or lost 

I am not saying Islamic government in Europe and Australia but at least in Iraq, Pakistan and Azarbaijan, UAE .etc

The more important questions asked should be:

What are you doing to prepare for the arrival of our imam?

What are you doing to implement his divine government ?

Are you worthy enough to be part of his 313 ? 

These are by far more important questions then what you have asked. 

 

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13 hours ago, Hadi5 said:

Islam is not only fasting and prayrr.

How many divine laws are implemented in your country.

Is Alcohol allowed to be sold,

I's intrest (Sood) being taken and given by banks,

Is prostitution allowed and not prohibited.

What punishment do your government give for rapist, theif, etc.

What side of your country takes in world conglucts  So on and so forth.

Do people believe they will get justice.

Is corruption rampant or controlled.

Is your government in hands those who are greedy for mony, wealth and position.

The Imams lived under these conditions ??????? 

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1 minute ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

The more important questions asked should be:

What are you doing to prepare for the arrival of our imam?

What are you doing to implement his divine government ?

Are you worthy enough to be part of his 313 ? 

These are by far more important questions then what you have asked. 

 

Whether I am worthy or not that Allah knows.

But I got convinced that there are two struggle .

One is insider our slef to eliminate all satanic temptations and cultivate noble ethical triat.

Second struggle outside that is establish Islamic law from level home to country.

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8 minutes ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

The Imams lived under these conditions ??????? 

But not silent and happy.

So what is use of Quranic law's.

Only to be on shelves under dust or to recite on dead body.

Or Allah has send it to be implemented for prosperity of this and next world.

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16 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

But not silent and happy.

So what is use of Quranic law's.

Only to be on shelves under dust or to recite on dead body.

Or Allah has send it to be implemented for prosperity of this and next world.

We all desire an Islamic society were everything is fair, but if the Prophet, and Imams could not achieve a 100% Islamic government... what makes you think we will. 

 

But , go head HBB... do it and try it out... baby steps I guess. 

 

WS 

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9 minutes ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

We all desire an Islamic society were everything is fair, but if the Prophet, and Imams could not achieve a 100% Islamic government... what makes you think we will. 

 

But , go head HBB... do it and try it out... baby steps I guess. 

 

WS 

So leave Islam.

Since Prophets and Imams couldn't achieve.

But non of Imam remain silent

Be happy if your neighborhood there prostitute centre. I

Be happy and silent if your brothers got oppressed or deprived.

 

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32 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

So leave Islam.

Since Prophets and Imams couldn't achieve.

But non of Imam remain silent

Be happy if your neighborhood there prostitute centre. I

Be happy and silent if your brothers got oppressed or deprived.

 

Unfortunately, I am awaiting for my Imam to arrive , then I will assist in his divine government. 

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10 minutes ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

Unfortunately, I am awaiting for my Imam to arrive , then I will assist in his divine government. 

Why not today.

Do you mean to follow Islamic law and Quranic order you will wait for 12th Imam.

I may say what for is Quran

Did Allah or Imam said donot follow quran and Islamic law in absence of Imam.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

Why not today.

Do you mean to follow Islamic law and Quranic order you will wait for 12th Imam.

I may say what for is Quran

Did Allah or Imam said donot follow quran and Islamic law in absence of Imam.

The Prophet/Imams also said to follow the laws of the nation you are living in.....

Also, although the Quran contains some Islamic laws, most come from the sunnah of the Prophet/Imams.......... 

Also I am adhering to Islamic laws, I follow Sistani........... 

I'm not sure how my life would change under an Islamic government as I am doing all that is required of me as a muslim.... Oh wait, you would like to force islam on the heads of other people....

 

Edited by YoungSkiekh313
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On 10/7/2020 at 4:29 PM, The Green Knight said:

I suggest we establish this government in the UK and Australia and Canada and India (pick one or all).

It must be perfect and pure this time. I am serious.

also Netherlands.. please dont forget us!! and lots of other countries..

this corrupt world should end as soon as possible!!

 

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40 minutes ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

Unfortunately, I am awaiting for my Imam to arrive , then I will assist in his divine government. 

ehmmm.. you can also do youre best and prepare for his return....

and this rule applies to all of us!!

 

 

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On 10/7/2020 at 5:06 PM, Hadi5 said:

This is not for those nations were Muslims are small in number.

I mean in those nations where Muslims are in majority.So that laws prescribed by Allah will not remain restricted to Quran only.

But it will be practically in our day to day life and in our judiciary and government.

So that injustice and poverty, inequality will be eliminated also

what did we learn from ashura and wht happened at karbala?

the good people will always be with less! but we still can win with the help of Allah... and we should also inspire the youth about such thing instead of bringing topics like mutah,zina and masturbation addictions:angry:

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2 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

@Hadi5 Can you please tell why most of our Imams (عليهم اسلام) didn't try to establish Islamic government. 

they actually tried but as always satan tried to take their rights away,

we live in another time... spreading information got extreme easy ( there is actualy no excuse to not spread the message of imam hussain and all the 14 masoomeen) 

if we work smart then we can spread their message without putting our lives in danger!!

sorry for answering, i was moivated to answer that question

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2 minutes ago, F.M said:

they actually tried but as always satan tried to take their rights away,

When did they tried? What did Imam Taqi (عليه السلام) did to establish Islamic government? 

3 minutes ago, F.M said:

we live in another time... spreading information got extreme easy ( there is actualy no excuse to not spread the message of imam hussain and all the 14 masoomeen) 

if we work smart then we can spread their message without putting our lives in danger!!

We should definitely spread message of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) but this is different than establishing Islamic government. 

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1 minute ago, F.M said:

they actually tried but as always satan tried to take their rights away,

we live in another time... spreading information got extreme easy ( there is actualy no excuse to not spread the message of imam hussain and all the 14 masoomeen) 

if we work smart then we can spread their message without putting our lives in danger!!

sorry for answering, i was moivated to answer that question

Brother you are right.

The Islamic nations have good resources, but may people are poor, poor education or health facility.

If we can use our sources wisely, we remove poorty and ignorance and suffering.

More important our all laws will be Islamic, and easily availability of nude, drugs ,acohol etc will be checked.

It will ease the following Quranic laws and delivery of justice.

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