Do those without a religion live more fulfilling lives?

[warisshah2012]

If we ignore the idea of an Afterlife for now, do those who don't believe in it or in following any Divine laws (whatever religion) live more fulfilling lives because they have to find out their own rules for themselves by exploring? In other words, were Camus and Sartre correct when they said the life unexamined was not worth living?

 

 

[guest 2025]

From my observations, the opposite could not be more true. I've never seen such a miserable, bitter people. Maybe 0.001% of irreligious people are philosophical and live with principles and integrity, but the majority of them are irreligious because they simply want to do what they want to do with no restrictions. They don't think about important questions about God, the universe, existence, because they already know everything. They just pass by life chasing pleasure while we seek contentment. They only see their family on the holidays, they hate their job and consider it a chore, and they endlessly consume media. It's not a coincidence that every other person feels empty inside and has an abhorrent character. What God prescribed for us, He did out of his infinite wisdom and knowledge. He knows that we need to place a high importance on X set of values, the same values that they turn their noses up towards. Then there's atheist countries like Japan, where the people do hold decency in high regard, but they're still rotting from the inside out because they put too much importance on the transient world. So this bad reaction isn't just a western thing.

Edited October 5, 2020 by guest 2025

[hasanhh]

Ayats 5:48-49 for one example.

Anyone of us can dream-up anything we want or can; but in the End, we will have nothing but pain.

[BleedKnee]

Everyone has a way of life. Or, at least they should. And having God in the middle of that isn't necessary in order to have a way of life. 

Nevertheless, many atheist/agnostics don't actually have that anchor set of values and a belief system except for constant skepticism, which leads many to live lives filled with constant needs to be satisfied. Living for things like family are noble things, but for one, living in a world where those things are harder to attain everyday isn't that helpful, and two, family, like everything else, is ephemeral. We most likely will have to let our loved ones go. Then where's the anchor?

There's a good reason why most atheist/agnostic dominated societies their suicide rates are through the roof compared to other nations. When we deny our basic need, which is to connect with God, then we deny ourselves. 

Edited October 5, 2020 by BleedKnee

[Dave follower of The Way]

On 10/5/2020 at 2:04 AM, warisshah2012 said:

the life unexamined was not worth living?

Are you implying that people who live a 'religious' life haven't examined it?

On 10/5/2020 at 12:13 PM, hasanhh said:

Ayats 5:48-49 for one example.

I read these verses - they show that God has revealed the truth and that it is important to follow it.  It indicates that the books before the Qur'an also show his truth.

I go along with that.  The life that is fulfilled is the one which comes from putting the "manufacturer's manual" into practice.  As @guest 2025 says the people who chuck the instructions out of the window are often bitter, miserable and unfulfilled.

[El Cid]

Salam.

My opinion on this question would be that it would all depend on the interpretation of the words "fulfilling lives." For some a fulfilling life can be just surrounded by people who love you and you love back, then departing this world. For some, it could mean having a successful business/job and spending their entire life around it; leaving it to your children and then departing this world. The two examples I gave alludes to the mission someone has in their life. Everyone has a mission in life and a goal in life which they want to achieve. If they don't, then they end up saying they left this world unfulfilled. If they do, then it brings them the satisfaction in life which they want.

However, In every person's life there is some longing to understand his/her purpose in this life. Every human being has asked this question since the advent of time "Who am I? Where did I come from? What is my purpose in this life?". Every civilization no matter how ancient has asked  themselves this very question from the Mayans to the Egyptians to the Aztecs to the Greek and so on. They did not know this Answer, so they made up their own answers and you can see a lot of the answers they made themselves was in some form of religion/higher deity/supernatural power whether it was Greek/Roman mythology about the Gods/Egyptian mythology about Gods/Aztec/Mayan Mythology about Gods. All their questions from scientific explainations(It only thunders when Thor/Zeus beats his Hammer/Bolt) or religious/philosophical questions like what happens after death?(Well clearly you go to a river called Styx, throw a coin at some dude and he leads you to the afterlife." lead to religion. 

So one can't say that Human beings have never existed without some concept of Religion. Athiests are just people who reject religion whether it be the correct one or the wrong based on their own limited understanding for example some will run to Science and say well everything in this world is just random and has scientific explainations and I'm just a biological accident. 

Without religion, when it comes to those important questions above. One will just coast through life not knowing the answers to them. Lead a life of Life, Death and Taxes. Then depart this world not knowing what his purpose was. He'd just use his own intelligence and allude his purpose to the responsibilities he had in this life. 

So a fulfilling life just comes down to individual differences.

[hasanhh]

1 hour ago, El Cid said:

My opinion on this question would be that it would all depend on the interpretation of the words "fulfilling lives."

Like !

1 hour ago, El Cid said:

So a fulfilling life just comes down to individual differences.

True.

l am surprised by the large number of people l went to school with that cannot grow old gracefully. They indulge in cosmetic surgery, expensive face treatments, hair dyes, hormone treatments, and the associated accouterments --sports cars, the bar scene, and so on.

Example: l have these concrete ornaments that set into the ground. l never could pull them out by hand, but like when l last dug them out, l was 52. So l wrapped a chain around them, tossed the chain over my shoulder, around my back and held it, then straighten up. They came right out. So last week/ten days ago, l pulled them again the same way as about twenty years ago. Yep, l ain't 50 anymore. Yet l did it the same way. And my legs gave out a few years ago . . . can't do about anything right and easy.

But a lot of those people l grew up with are laid up with disease, injury, old unnecessary injury/ies, and so on.

So why the difference? Probably what my physician said to me several years ago: "lt is obvious to any doctor that you always led a clean Life."

[eThErEaL]

On 10/4/2020 at 9:04 PM, warisshah2012 said:

If we ignore the idea of an Afterlife for now, do those who don't believe in it or in following any Divine laws (whatever religion) live more fulfilling lives because they have to find out their own rules for themselves by exploring? In other words, were Camus and Sartre correct when they said the life unexamined was not worth living?

 

 

I can't speak for all Atheists, only myself.  As an Ashiest I would like to say, yes.  Life is now more fulfilling than ever before.  

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by eThErEaL

[Meedy]

It can works both ways because it depends on person circumstances whether they can live a more fulfilling life  or not e.g. poverty, family relation, the ways they've been brought or what they endured.

E.g. A Rich Religious person can have more fulfilling life than a homeless non religious person.

There are some people of any religion, that will do whatever they want  to enjoy life regardless whether its sins or not.

There are some people with beliefs other than religion or no beliefs but behave more morally and don't do whatever they want to enjoy life.

That's my opinion and you have your opinion. If I am wrong then I pray to God to forgive me.

 

[warisshah2012]

34 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

I can't speak for all Atheists, only myself.  As an Ashiest I would like to say, yes.  Life is now more fulfilling than ever before.  

 

Excuse me but this reply suggest you were a Muslim /Believer before? If so can I ask why you became an atheist?

[El Cid]

35 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

I can't speak for all Atheists, only myself.  As an Ashiest I would like to say, yes.  Life is now more fulfilling than ever before.  

 

It's pretty sad you only get to live one life filled with misery, disease, taxes and unhappiness with no real peace of mind.

When one problem ends, there's a few hours of rest before another begins.

Whether it's the reality or not. It's still sad. Not hating or anything.

[eThErEaL]

7 hours ago, El Cid said:

It's pretty sad you only get to live one life filled with misery, disease, taxes and unhappiness with no real peace of mind.

When one problem ends, there's a few hours of rest before another begins.

Whether it's the reality or not. It's still sad. Not hating or anything.

its pretty sad deluding yourself that you have other lives to live when you don't! 

Edited October 8, 2020 by eThErEaL

[eThErEaL]

7 hours ago, warisshah2012 said:

Excuse me but this reply suggest you were a Muslim /Believer before? If so can I ask why you became an atheist?

We are all in a process of Self-discovery.  It just never ends.

Edited October 8, 2020 by eThErEaL

[Hassu93]

On 10/5/2020 at 6:34 AM, warisshah2012 said:

If we ignore the idea of an Afterlife for now, do those who don't believe in it or in following any Divine laws (whatever religion) live more fulfilling lives because they have to find out their own rules for themselves by exploring? In other words, were Camus and Sartre correct when they said the life unexamined was not worth living?

 

 

Depends on what you mean by fulfilling. If your it's about not having any set of rules and committing sins such as drinking, zina, drugs etc.

 

But again there are people who live fulfilling lives following Islam. The lives of Imams and many great Alims are a good example.

[hasanhh]

36 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

We are all in a process of Self-discovery.  It just never ends.

What part of "self" do you think needs discovering?

[eThErEaL]

22 hours ago, hasanhh said:

What part of "self" do you think needs discovering?

All parts.  

[hasanhh]

3 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

All parts.  

You must have made some conclusions somewhere.

[Dave follower of The Way]

 

On 10/8/2020 at 1:45 AM, El Cid said:

It's pretty sad you only get to live one life filled with misery, disease, taxes and unhappiness with no real peace of mind.

When one problem ends, there's a few hours of rest before another begins.

Whether it's the reality or not. It's still sad. Not hating or anything.

On 10/8/2020 at 9:06 AM, eThErEaL said:

its pretty sad deluding yourself that you have other lives to live when you don't! 

Yep we only have one life but it doesn't end at death it continues through to a new dimension.

Death and the fear of death have been defeted by the resurrection of Jesus the Messiah from the dead.

But this life is it really so grot? Yes there are hard things like disease and oppression, but when you walk with God beside you he is your comfort and director.  He helps me to understand the things that happen to me.  He stregthens me in hardships and rejoices with me when the sun shines.  Can I be as bold as to quote from the Prophet David who had his share of hard times.  In Psalms (Zebur) 23 he writes about his experience of God and it's an experience many have shared down the ages and my own testimoney.

¹ The Lord is my shepherd, I lack nothing.
²     He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,
³     he refreshes my soul.
He guides me along the right paths
    for his name’s sake.
⁴ Even though I walk
    through the darkest valley,
I will fear no evil,
    for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
    they comfort me.

⁵ You prepare a table before me
    in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
    my cup overflows.
⁶ Surely your goodness and love will follow me
    all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the Lord
    forever.

 

 

[El Cid]

7 hours ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

 

Yep we only have one life but it doesn't end at death it continues through to a new dimension.

Death and the fear of death have been defeted by the resurrection of Jesus the Messiah from the dead.

But this life is it really so grot? Yes there are hard things like disease and oppression, but when you walk with God beside you he is your comfort and director.  He helps me to understand the things that happen to me.  He stregthens me in hardships and rejoices with me when the sun shines.  Can I be as bold as to quote from the Prophet David who had his share of hard times.  In Psalms (Zebur) 23 he writes about his experience of God and it's an experience many have shared down the ages and my own testimoney.

¹ The Lord is my shepherd, I lack nothing.
²     He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,
³     he refreshes my soul.
He guides me along the right paths
    for his name’s sake.
⁴ Even though I walk
    through the darkest valley,
I will fear no evil,
    for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
    they comfort me.

⁵ You prepare a table before me
    in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
    my cup overflows.
⁶ Surely your goodness and love will follow me
    all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the Lord
    forever.

 

 

Are you trying to convert? lol

Edited October 9, 2020 by El Cid

[Cherub786]

Non-religious old people are the biggest waste of oxygen on the planet. How do they live fulfilling lives? What special thing do they do? What positive, constructive thing do they contribute to humanity? All I see them doing is eating, vacationing if they’re rich, sleeping, consuming massive amount of government resources of health care, housing, nursing, etc., taking the dog for a walk, and watching TV.

In their minds, they worked all their lives and deserve to just enjoy and relax in their retirement. But how is enjoying and relaxing a “fulfilling” life? There are extremely few non-religious elderly people that live meaningful, active lives. Most of them are just living the retired life. They have no concern with the Afterlife.

As I recall, the great prophet Moses على نبينا وعليه السلام was eighty years old when he was sent to Pharaoh as a Prophet. Most 80 year olds don’t even have enough energy to speak continuously for an hour while seated without dozing off.

I’m very disappointed in our older generation of today. Even the non-religious ones have no sense of civic responsibility. And religious elders should be more motivated to worship rather than just sitting around all day waiting to be fed, watching TV, etc. They should be filling the mosques, doing dhikr, praying nawafil, reading the Quran, engaging in Tabligh. That’s how the elders of previous Muslim generations lived.

[eThErEaL]

15 hours ago, hasanhh said:

You must have made some conclusions somewhere.

no

[313_Waiter]

On 5/13/2015 at 12:05 AM, eThErEaL said:

salam

 

This is a matter of principles... not really about judging any particular individual.  The principle is very clear and simple.  Anyone who dies without knowing God will not be saved.  Having said that, there are definitely cases where people call themselves Atheists but are in fact theists because they have such a profound understanding of God that they don't even like to call what they understand "God".  Many Buddhists will deny God or will say they are not concerned about God's existence.  But this is because they are just talking about a "god" in our imgainations that they don't believe in.  Who knows, maybe Chomsky is this way.  Allahu Alim.  And on the other hand a person could be calling himself a "Muslim", or a "Christian", but they have no knowledge of God whatsoever.  So we certainly canot judge any particular individual, let alone ourselves.  All we can do is talk about principles.  And the principle is that anyone who dies not knowing God is not going to be saved!  

This will explain everything @hasanhh @El Cid 

[Ashvazdanghe]

7 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

They should be filling the mosques, doing dhikr, praying nawafil, reading the Quran, engaging in Tabligh. That’s how the elders of previous Muslim generations lived.

Salam these are duty of young  generations  which elders of previous Muslim generations were "filling the mosques, doing dhikr, praying nawafil, reading the Quran " as result of their old age to pass their time for preparation for next world.

[hasanhh]

3 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

This will explain everything @hasanhh @El Cid 

NO, Ayat 6:103 does explain.  So how can anyone contrive "knowing god?"

[313_Waiter]

1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

NO, Ayat 6:103 does explain.  So how can anyone contrive "knowing god?"

I mean this is what Brother ethereal means when he says he is atheist (secular humanist) 

[PureExistence1]

On 10/9/2020 at 5:18 PM, Cherub786 said:

Non-religious old people are the biggest waste of oxygen on the planet. How do they live fulfilling lives? What special thing do they do? What positive, constructive thing do they contribute to humanity? All I see them doing is eating, vacationing if they’re rich, sleeping, consuming massive amount of government resources of health care, housing, nursing, etc., taking the dog for a walk, and watching TV.

In their minds, they worked all their lives and deserve to just enjoy and relax in their retirement. But how is enjoying and relaxing a “fulfilling” life? There are extremely few non-religious elderly people that live meaningful, active lives. Most of them are just living the retired life. They have no concern with the Afterlife.

As I recall, the great prophet Moses على نبينا وعليه السلام was eighty years old when he was sent to Pharaoh as a Prophet. Most 80 year olds don’t even have enough energy to speak continuously for an hour while seated without dozing off.

I’m very disappointed in our older generation of today. Even the non-religious ones have no sense of civic responsibility. And religious elders should be more motivated to worship rather than just sitting around all day waiting to be fed, watching TV, etc. They should be filling the mosques, doing dhikr, praying nawafil, reading the Quran, engaging in Tabligh. That’s how the elders of previous Muslim generations lived.

As salaamun aleikum, 

I appreciate a FEW of your points, but i have to say, it clearly sounds like you have no clue what its like to be old or any consideration for those who are.. It seems you have no clue about the way people physically and mentally feel when they are old and the manner in which they decline in, the extreme decrease in energy, multiple illnesses and meds with side effects, insomnia, not being able to move around safely without risking a fall and breaking a hip etc...How many elderly people are left alone to die in some senior living center where their peers being taken away by ambulance, never to return...and they know its coming for them too, but when?

For some, their dog is all they have left in life because theyve been abandoned by family that sees them as a burden, or their families are too caught up in the dunya and too busy with their own work and family to be bothered by taking care of them. Many elderly who are on govt insurance/assistance arent on it due to laziness, rather, its because they slaved their entire lives away in jobs that no one else wanted to do, and now have nothing coming. 

I dont remember who said it, but someone said "The determining factor of how healthy a society TRULY is,is in how well they treat the people at the bottom, i.e, the old, weak, sick, etc...the elderly HAVE already come and given of their life to society, and society OWES them something back for their service.

Whats wrong with an old person chilling? Do you think its fair or right when you see an 80 year old man or woman working at some big box store stocking shelves because THEY HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE? Its work or die/be homeless for them? Because these !@#$% govts most of us live under keep taking away from the most vulnerable in society, forcing them to work into their 80s or untill they die? 

The Quran clearly states that for those who live long lives, He reduces them to weakness once again. Is that not enough to realize that along with old age comes weakness, fraility, less energy, less motivation, tiredness, etc? 

Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will be the judge of what peoples hands have wrought, and alhamdulilah He will be the best of judges, considering all aspects of a persons life, including that of old age, as it is Allah Himself that made old age the way it is. Sure, there are a few "Super Elderly Muslims" out there, but this is not the norm. Ive personally never seen anyone over 70 offering taraweeh or 100 rakat salaat during the holy month of Ramadhan, however, ive seen MANY offering 100 rakat from a seated position.

The body breaks down after awhile. Im in my mid 40s and the signs Allah has granted us to remind us of our inevitable departure from this life are beginning to manifest. Less energy, wrinkles, knee problems, foot problems,tinnitus, blurry vision, less musculature, and i eat clean, hike 3-4 times a week, stretch and am just starting Tai Chi to try to mitigate some of the more serious future woes, but honestly, im SCARED to get much older, because i HAVE old parents, and its hard on everyone. Mom has dementia and dad is on hemodialysis every other day.

While i DO wish my father was more religious than he is, for his own souls sake, he HAS donated hundreds of dollars to multiple charities, which im sure Allah will factor into the equation somehow. Im really sad for my mom, cuz she cant remember things past 5 minutes, forgets who we are(her children and husband), refuses and beats me up when i try to shower her,cant cook for herself,manage her finances or drive anymore...we take care of her as best as possible. She was the religious one, and i may not have become Muslim if it wasnt for her....now, shes like this..its sad, but its life. 

Ive seen alot of the posts youve made, and while i dont agree with alot of stuff, i appreciate the hard work and perseverence and thought youve put into them, however, i believe youve dropped the ball on this one.

Be carefull how you judge people, cuz the algorithym Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has creation operating according to could, Allah forbid, bring these things upon you someday as a means of teaching you some lessons.

W/s

 

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by shia farm girl

[Cherub786]

57 minutes ago, shia farm girl said:

As salaamun aleikum, 

I appreciate a FEW of your points, but i have to say, it clearly sounds like you have no clue what its like to be old or any consideration for those who are.. It seems you have no clue about the way people physically and mentally feel when they are old and the manner in which they decline in, the extreme decrease in energy, multiple illnesses and meds with side effects, insomnia, not being able to move around safely without risking a fall and breaking a hip etc...How many elderly people are left alone to die in some senior living center where their peers being taken away by ambulance, never to return...and they know its coming for them too, but when?

وعليك السلام

It depends on which specific age range we are talking about. Elderly is a broad category, but usually means age of retirement (65) and over.

Most people in the beginning phase of being elderly are still physically able to lead an active life, yet they choose to retire and relax. That is surely their right, but as the topic of this thread indicates, how can it be said they are living fulfilling lives?

And living an active life doesn’t necessarily mean living a physically demanding life. You can still be active in society, fight for some cause, be part of a movement, and so forth, without having to strain yourself physically. Most of the strain will probably be mental, but there are plenty of elderly people who prove that an active life is possible at that age.

57 minutes ago, shia farm girl said:

the elderly HAVE already come and given of their life to society, and society OWES them something back for their service.

How can we determine whether a specific elder contributed the same amount of service to society that he is receiving after retirement? IMHO, most of these elders are receiving more than what they contributed.

The baby boomers are a massive generation. In the West, there is a demographic imbalance which is putting undue strain on younger generations, which don’t have the same financial security as the baby boomers. If you look at social security for the retiring baby boomers, it has been guaranteed for them and is a massive burden on younger taxpayers who probably won’t receive the same kind of benefits by the time they are old enough to retire. The baby boomers exercise disproportionate political influence, their political and economic interests are the priorities of the ruling class, since they are demographically larger and vote in droves compared to younger people.

57 minutes ago, shia farm girl said:

Whats wrong with an old person chilling? Do you think its fair or right when you see an 80 year old man or woman working at some big box store stocking shelves because THEY HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE? Its work or die/be homeless for them? Because these !@#$% govts most of us live under keep taking away from the most vulnerable in society, forcing them to work into their 80s or untill they die? 

You speak as though work is a bad thing. Why shouldn’t people work until they die? Obviously, the older you are the less physically demanding tasks you should be expected to perform. But I for one would like to see these 80 year olds get out of bed every morning on time, put on their clothes and go to work. Perhaps many of them shouldn’t be driving but they can take the bus. Heck, working and being active may even increase their longevity.

Quote

The Quran clearly states that for those who live long lives, He reduces them to weakness once again. Is that not enough to realize that along with old age comes weakness, fraility, less energy, less motivation, tiredness, etc? 

Yes, and like I said, old people can still lead active and meaningful lives without the physical strain. I wish more of them would. If they don’t want to work at a job and make money, thus not being a burden on the rest of taxpaying society, then at least the religious among them should offer a lot more worship. Islam does teach that the older you get and the more free time you have, the more you should prepare for the Afterlife through worship. Islam definitely frowns upon old people just watching TV all day or reading the newspaper. You’re going to die soon, you more than anyone else need to prepare to meet your Maker, if you aren’t motivated to go to the mosque, recite the Quran more, offer more nawafil, etc., then that is very bad. Worship isn’t that physically demanding either. If an old person can’t pray standing then Allah has made it easy by allowing them to pray sitting, even seated on a chair if they can’t sit on the ground. But I want to see more old Muslim men at the mosque, they should be dominating the mosque, why aren't they?

And I also want to see more old people, if they refuse to work at a job, to at least be part of some religious, political or social movement.

I don’t agree with most of today’s social and political movements. But why are all these protests, political movements, people courting arrest out of civil disobedience, etc., 99% young people? Where are the elders?

The elders in the 1960s were very active in the Civil Rights movement. They had character. You had people in their 80s and 90s going to prison for a cause they believed in. Now where are the old people going to jail for a political or religious cause? Just walking their dog because they’re lonely? You’re lonely because you don’t do anything meaningful, why would anyone want to spend time with you?

Edited October 11, 2020 by Cherub786

[eThErEaL]

4 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

وعليك السلام

It depends on which specific age range we are talking about. Elderly is a broad category, but usually means age of retirement (65) and over.

Most people in the beginning phase of being elderly are still physically able to lead an active life, yet they choose to retire and relax. That is surely their right, but as the topic of this thread indicates, how can it be said they are living fulfilling lives?

And living an active life doesn’t necessarily mean living a physically demanding life. You can still be active in society, fight for some cause, be part of a movement, and so forth, without having to strain yourself physically. Most of the strain will probably be mental, but there are plenty of elderly people who prove that an active life is possible at that age.

How can we determine whether a specific elder contributed the same amount of service to society that he is receiving after retirement? IMHO, most of these elders are receiving more than what they contributed.

The baby boomers are a massive generation. In the West, there is a demographic imbalance which is putting undue strain on younger generations, which don’t have the same financial security as the baby boomers. If you look at social security for the retiring baby boomers, it has been guaranteed for them and is a massive burden on younger taxpayers who probably won’t receive the same kind of benefits by the time they are old enough to retire. The baby boomers exercise disproportionate political influence, their political and economic interests are the priorities of the ruling class, since they are demographically larger and vote in droves compared to younger people.

You speak as though work is a bad thing. Why shouldn’t people work until they die? Obviously, the older you are the less physically demanding tasks you should be expected to perform. But I for one would like to see these 80 year olds get out of bed every morning on time, put on their clothes and go to work. Perhaps many of them shouldn’t be driving but they can take the bus. Heck, working and being active may even increase their longevity.

Yes, and like I said, old people can still lead active and meaningful lives without the physical strain. I wish more of them would. If they don’t want to work at a job and make money, thus not being a burden on the rest of taxpaying society, then at least the religious among them should offer a lot more worship. Islam does teach that the older you get and the more free time you have, the more you should prepare for the Afterlife through worship. Islam definitely frowns upon old people just watching TV all day or reading the newspaper. You’re going to die soon, you more than anyone else need to prepare to meet your Maker, if you aren’t motivated to go to the mosque, recite the Quran more, offer more nawafil, etc., then that is very bad. Worship isn’t that physically demanding either. If an old person can’t pray standing then Allah has made it easy by allowing them to pray sitting, even seated on a chair if they can’t sit on the ground. But I want to see more old Muslim men at the mosque, they should be dominating the mosque, why aren't they?

And I also want to see more old people, if they refuse to work at a job, to at least be part of some religious, political or social movement.

I don’t agree with most of today’s social and political movements. But why are all these protests, political movements, people courting arrest out of civil disobedience, etc., 99% young people? Where are the elders?

The elders in the 1960s were very active in the Civil Rights movement. They had character. You had people in their 80s and 90s going to prison for a cause they believed in. Now where are the old people going to jail for a political or religious cause? Just walking their dog because they’re lonely? You’re lonely because you don’t do anything meaningful, why would anyone want to spend time with you?

Let us see what you have to say when grow old (if you do).

[Cherub786]

3 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

Let us see what you have to say when grow old (if you do).

ان شاء الله عز وجل

If I am blessed with advance age I fully intend to lead an active life. Presently, mainstream culture celebrates youth way too much. Old people seem to be hiding, they need to come out and lead. They should have the wisdom and the experience. Islam teaches us to respect elders not because they sit around all day doing nothing, but because they are active members, rather leaders, of the community. They don’t let age prevent them from preaching and leading dynamic lives. If there is a social crisis or moral evils prevalent, they should be at the forefront battling it with their fiery words. How many of our Prophets, Saints and other heroes were elderly people, especially advanced in age? Why should only young people have that fire within them to do something great in life?

[eThErEaL]

43 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

ان شاء الله عز وجل

If I am blessed with advance age I fully intend to lead an active life. Presently, mainstream culture celebrates youth way too much. Old people seem to be hiding, they need to come out and lead. They should have the wisdom and the experience. Islam teaches us to respect elders not because they sit around all day doing nothing, but because they are active members, rather leaders, of the community. They don’t let age prevent them from preaching and leading dynamic lives. If there is a social crisis or moral evils prevalent, they should be at the forefront battling it with their fiery words. How many of our Prophets, Saints and other heroes were elderly people, especially advanced in age? Why should only young people have that fire within them to do something great in life?

lol

you think you will have a lot of energy as an old man?  Most old people sit around not because they are lazy.  They sit around because they are in PAIN!

bone aches, lack of energy, chronic diseases.  I mean this is the case with most old people.   Very few are lucky to grow old and be independent. Just being independent is a great accomplishment for an old person.  you think you will be able to have the same loud voice you have now?  you think you will be able to walk the streets for hours like you are able to now?  As soon as you get in the streets you will be looking for a place to relive your bladder.  

YOU ARE FUNNY.

funny and sad to see someone picking on old people.

lol

Edited October 12, 2020 by eThErEaL

[The Green Knight]

I'm wondering how life can be "more fulfilling". Let me think.

- You get a super immune system and do not age or degrade or lose sanity.

- You become able to become a super genius like Tesla (Tesla was religious but nvm).

- You invent the everlasting light bulb or free energy or some world changing breakthrough and become a hero (and patent and live to see it).

- You get to walk on the moon or visit mars.

- You get free college without sacrificing an arm and a leg.

- You don't have to work anymore.

- You get to live without gender discrimination/bias, race bias, all bias and hate.

- Your lunch becomes free forever.

- You get the perfect spouse(s).

- All wars and injustice end.

Hmm?

[The Green Knight]

Or as I suspect, do the "fulfilling" experiences comprise of the freedom to procreate a bit more freely but invite a ton of stds and to drink a poison that is the excretion of a yeast after having to pay monies for those things? To have this illusion of some freedom? Freedom to eat pork? Freedom to not get upset watching the genocide of Yemen for instance? Is that fulfilling?

[313_Waiter]

On 10/8/2020 at 11:08 AM, eThErEaL said:

Life is now more fulfilling than ever before.  

 

How would you say we can attain contentment by attaching ourselves to Pure Existence instead of yearning for temporal and materialistic pursuits?

[eThErEaL]

3 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

How would you say we can attain contentment by attaching ourselves to Pure Existence instead of yearning for temporal and materialistic pursuits?

Contentment cannot be “attained” as contentment is inherent in and as your essential reality which is Being as such.  
Temporal and materialistic pursuits is like a cat that attempts to leap and snatch for the ever elusive string pulled by its playful owner.  

[islam25]

5 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

How would you say we can attain contentment by attaching ourselves to Pure Existence instead of yearning for temporal and materialistic pursuits?

Brother he is true.Our happyness in this world and other lies in attaching to pure existence. And that attachment depends on our dissociation from materialistic things.