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In the Name of God بسم الله

Obnoxious Marriage demands.

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Posted (edited)

Salam brother and sisters.

Even though I have no interest in marriage right now. Sometimes I browse matrimonial websites for fun and one of my friends also hosts a matrimonial whatsapp group which he added me in so I browse that too at times.

So today I saw a profile that took the cake in ridiculous-ness for me. When asked about what they were looking for in a guy. These were their demands and wants which it said they will not compromise on. "Guy must be well educated with Masters degree in Business or Engineering or Medical. His height must be 5"10 to 6'0 atleast. He must have good slim physique or muscular, not chubby. He must have his own house and two cars one for himself one for our daughter. He must not let parents live with him and wife. He must pray 5 times a day and fast in Ramadhan. Not smoke or drink. Not do anything Haram. He must attend Majlis and do Azadari or noha recite." I fixed most of the broken english but paraphrased it in the same mannerisms it was written.

I mean I get some of the things they would like but it seems they basically want a Ryan Reynolds with qualities of an Ayotallah with the skills of Nadeem sarwar. This is plain ridiculous and I wish I was making it up. This got me curious. What are some of the most unusual demands you've seen or witnessed in terms of marriage arrangements?

Edited by El Cid
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Posted (edited)

Even if you read the threads about it on shiachat the women are pretty funny, one girl was demanding a dishwasher from whichever unlucky soul who ends up marrying her.

It is a weird one, because first all you are announcing to the world how lazy you are, secondly you are kind of also letting it know that you are somewhat materialistic, but on the other hand dishwashers are really cheap, can she not buy one herself? It is a bit of a weird make or brake issue.

It is kind of like those girls who post rubbish like "I want a husband who will wake me up for fajr :love:"

First off, if you want to wake up for fajr, set your alarm. Secondly, maybe a man who wakes up for fajr would like a partner who acts likewise, not some lazy person who fantasises about being woken up, then announces it to the world.

So many weirdos around lol

Edited by Ali_Hussain
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48 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

one girl was demanding a dishwasher from whichever unlucky soul who ends up marrying her.

You mean the girl didn't realise she would be the dishwasher? 

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17 hours ago, El Cid said:

Salam brother and sisters.

Even though I have no interest in marriage right now. Sometimes I browse matrimonial websites for fun and one of my friends also hosts a matrimonial whatsapp group which he added me in so I browse that too at times.

So today I saw a profile that took the cake in ridiculous-ness for me. When asked about what they were looking for in a guy. These were their demands and wants which it said they will not compromise on. "Guy must be well educated with Masters degree in Business or Engineering or Medical. His height must be 5"10 to 6'0 atleast. He must have good slim physique or muscular, not chubby. He must have his own house and two cars one for himself one for our daughter. He must not let parents live with him and wife. He must pray 5 times a day and fast in Ramadhan. Not smoke or drink. Not do anything Haram. He must attend Majlis and do Azadari or noha recite." I fixed most of the broken english but paraphrased it in the same mannerisms it was written.

I mean I get some of the things they would like but it seems they basically want a Ryan Reynolds with qualities of an Ayotallah with the skills of Nadeem sarwar. This is plain ridiculous and I wish I was making it up. This got me curious. What are some of the most unusual demands you've seen or witnessed in terms of marriage arrangements?

I've seen much more extreme. I was involved in Muslim Congress Heavenly Match from the first one in 2012 till 2017. The extreme demands, though, come from both sides. Men want a lady who is young, no older than 30 who basically looks like a supermodel or bollywood / hollywood star. Then when they search for years and years, and finally find one, it turn out her Iman and Taqwa are very weak or nonexistent, which then creates problems in the marriage and they end up getting divorced. I am not saying there are no very attractive, young women who have Iman and Taqwa, but this should not be the main demand when it comes to a wife. 

From the ladies side, yes, I have seen similar to this. We had men fill out questionaires when the registered for the Heavenly Match program. Eventually, we had to hide these profiles because you had women, mostly the mothers of the girls who were in Heavenly Match, rifling thru the profiles till they found one that said 'Doctor'. Then they told their daughter to meet with this guy. Some of this comes from the girl, but alot of it is from the parents (the financial part, not the looks part). There's no problem in looking for these super ideal candidates, but this shouldn't become a barrier to someone getting married. These criteria should be flexible.

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11 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

I've seen much more extreme. I was involved in Muslim Congress Heavenly Match from the first one in 2012 till 2017.

Salam brother, Abu Hadi. I must say "Muslim Congress Heavenly Match" sounded like a political party to me at first . I really want to play Devil's advocate for both sides so let's examine some of the factors mentioned.
 

11 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

I've seen much more extreme. I was involved in Muslim Congress Heavenly Match from the first one in 2012 till 2017. The extreme demands, though, come from both sides. Men want a lady who is young, no older than 30 who basically looks like a supermodel or bollywood / hollywood star.

We cannot fully say that every man has the same standard of beauty when he thinks of someone who is a "supermodel" or "hollywood" type. The definitions of both terms have changed in a severe fashion in our today's age. When we look at history, the word "Supermodel" was first coined for Lisa Fonssagrives. The later women who emerged who were also referred as Supermodels were Naomi Campbell, Janice Dickinson, Kate Moss, Cindy crawford and others. What's the main similarity between all of those women? More or less, they represented the same body type and facial structure which was associated with supermodel/model glamour. Same with Hollywood women back in the day where they emphasized on specific things which they day and age founded attractive in order to become "Sex Symbols" of the era. Nowadays, the situation is completely reversed as fuller body women like Ashley Graham or well what's the politically correct way of saying this? "Fuller/Healthier/Plus size" women are also walking the runway and appearing on the covers of fashion magazine. In our Instagram culture, the standard of beauty seems to be Kim Kardashian/Kylie Jenner whilst disregarding the previous generations. Rappers/Musicians also sing about these women rather than let's say Monroe because she is out of her league in this era but holds her reputation as a philosopher amongst the generation where her quotes are spray painted into pretty fonts and held up proudly. We also live in an Era of Globalization where you don't have to specifically marry people from your own community because other people might be more physically attractive to you from other countries. For example I admire red hair and find it very pretty. Women from my community don't have red hair or it's very rare in Pashtuns but they won't marry me because of ethnic issues. But It's not some make or break thing for me thankfully lol. I hate that mindset. Though as for the no older than 30 thing. Women can develop fertility issues when they mature whilst a man in his 60s can impregnate a woman. There's a double standard for sure, albeit a cruel one but can't do years and years of certain thoughts.
 

11 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Then when they search for years and years, and finally find one, it turn out her Iman and Taqwa are very weak or nonexistent, which then creates problems in the marriage and they end up getting divorced. I am not saying there are no very attractive, young women who have Iman and Taqwa, but this should not be the main demand when it comes to a wife. 

Now for this. Now this isn't something I don't really understand or get at all. Why is having a high Iman such a big deal to these matrimonial people or anyone in general? For me having Iman/Taqwa means Believing in Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), His Prophet(S.W) and the Household((عليه السلام)) of the Prophet(S.W). Not going into grave sins like drinking, adultery/unfaithfulness/gambling/Haram income/Abusive behavior/Standards like envy/greed/backbiting. If your spouse prays 5 times a day. How exactly does that benefit you? On the day of Judgement, is your good deeds book a joint account where you get the reward of your husband praying and you get the reward of your wife praying. There seems to be some sort of heavy backwards thought where fulfilling religious obligations equates to being a good person. Look at those ISIS/AQ terrorists, they pray and fast. Their sujood and arabic prounication is probably better than a majority of truthful Muslims. But are they good people? Ofcourse not. The Ahl Al Bayt(Peace be upon them) warned us that people like them will emerge in the end of days whose salat will be perfect yet they are going to hell. Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) and his companions were walking before the battle with the Khuwarij, a companion of Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) pointed to a house where a man was reciting the Quran beautifully. After the battle, Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) pointed to a corpse on the ground and told his companion that the man who was reciting the Quran is the same man who fought against us just now with the Khuwarij. Yes, praying does protect people from those grave sins and Haram activities above but then there's also people who Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will send to hell according to hadith because Despite their Salat/Hajj/Fasting being top tier and worth all the mountains of this world combined. As soon as they finished, They ran towards grave sins with no regard for Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). So again, I just don't see the logic in these beliefs. Or as a man once told me "I hate praying. I just go to the mosque for the purpose of attendance. That's it. For me praying is a matter of class attendance with God(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)." The hijab is also quite a paradox for me as I have no favor for both. If a woman wants to do Hijab, I stop her. Then I'm going against Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). If a woman doesn't want to do Hijab and I tell her to. If she isn't sincere, she'll ending up hating both me and Islam. So I don't see the point of that either. On the day of Judgement, You will be standing among billions of people. You won't recognize any one of them, even your parents because of the fear of that day. You will only start to recognize people when the permission to do so will be given by Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). And even then you will wish that you wouldn't recognize these people because your Parents are going to come to you asking for your good deeds and recall all their favors on you. And you will do the same with them asking them for their good deeds but they will say no to you. Your wife will do the same, Your children will do the same. Then during your Judgement, the people who you wronged in some way will come and demand things from you to settle the score. So I see no relevance in this. This argument applies to both men and women on those websites with this silly requirement.
 

11 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

 I am not saying there are no very attractive, young women who have Iman and Taqwa, but this should not be the main demand when it comes to a wife. 

I agree. I know some attractive young women with good Taqwa as well. But in this situation, the economic law of Opportunity cost seems to be the case which refers to what you have to give up to buy what you want in terms of other goods or services. So following that logic, You will have to make compromises somewhere as you're likely not going to get your perfect woman/man made for you in a computer somewhere. Now there's no such thing as definites like I can't say "To have beauty, You need to give up Iman. To have Iman, you need to give up beauty." because that would mean beautiful women have no Iman and women with Iman have no beauty. But you will need to make compromises somewhere that's what I'm saying. This isn't black and white. It's gray in between. The middle ground. For example if there's someone attractive but they don't fulfill obligations properly. Sometimes they wear Hijab sometimes they don't. That's where your cost comes in. And if there's someone who is extremely religious or your kind of religious yet does not perfectly represent your standard of beauty but here and there. Some things are attractive, some things need work or surgery. Then make the compromise. God forbid anyone has to get surgery to please someone.
 

11 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

From the ladies side, yes, I have seen similar to this. We had men fill out questionaires when the registered for the Heavenly Match program. Eventually, we had to hide these profiles because you had women, mostly the mothers of the girls who were in Heavenly Match, rifling thru the profiles till they found one that said 'Doctor'. Then they told their daughter to meet with this guy. Some of this comes from the girl, but alot of it is from the parents (the financial part, not the looks part). There's no problem in looking for these super ideal candidates, but this shouldn't become a barrier to someone getting married. These criteria should be flexible.

Now for the last part which we can examine women as we did for men above. It seems that the main requirement of women as you mentioned and as I mentioned in that weird ad was that they want someone who has money/financial security. The word "Doctor" implies both as the Doctor archetype in the world of matrimony means a clinic where they are printing money basically and your daughter will be very happy there financially and won't have to starve. Now this is extremely shallow and hollow if you ask me. It's the same logic as a man wanting someone very beautiful. There's this one scene from the Marilyn Monroe movie "Gentleman prefer blondes." If you want to watch that scene, look up "Marilyn marries a rich man" on youtube and it will be the same result. Some mod will probably remove it because Marilyn isn't wearing the Hijab or some specific word they don't agree with was used even though they have no problems with sleeveless low-cut dress women in high heels doing Ted Talks who occasionally use some sort of rude word. Sure that's for the sake of "education" but so is this. So instead let's discuss what was said in that scene.

Father of the guy whom Marilyn wants to marry: Oh, shut up! Young lady, you don't fool me one bit. You might convince this man, but you'll never convince me. 

Marilyn:  That's too bad. I do love him. 

Father: Certainly. For his money

Marilyn: No, Honestly.

Father: You expect me to believe that you aren't marrying him for his money?

Marilyn: It's true.

Father: Then what do you want to marry him for?

Marilyn: I want to marry him for your money.

Father: We're getting down to brass tacks. You admit you're after money.

Marilyn: No, I don't. Aren't you funny? Don't you know that a man being rich is like a girl being pretty? You might not marry a girl just because she's pretty, but, my goodness, Doesn't it help?  Would you want your daughter to marry a poor man? You'd want her to have the most wonderful things in the world. Why is it wrong for me to want those things?

I think this scene is extremely important and relevant to the topic of discussion as the whole matrimonial websites/world seem to be a free market of some. Both are shallow arguements as Marilyn points out above. The people you pointed out in the topic want the Doctor archetype which represents economic prosperity. Given the logic which is also explored more deeply in the video. To give the same compensation to the Doctor, The female marriage candidate has to give him the same level of beauty which mirrors his level of economic prosperity. She has to represent that same ideal which he wants if he's giving you something you want. Also given this logic, If your daughter doesn't measure up then it's wrong for you to want a doctor for her. Just like if your doctor doesn't measure up and he's a Vet instead, then he has no right to be demanding his Angelina Jolie because he can't afford her. Look at the Billionaires/Millionaires all around us aside from people of media(Celebrities, Singers etc because they have to use beauty coupled with skill to attain that wealth. I'm talking about business guys.) How many attractive Millionaires/Billionaires are there? Take away the wealth of Jeff Bezos, is he a very physically attractive man without his wealth? The only attractive billionaire I can think of is Elon Musk because he's in his prime and he is average in looks but his wealth makes him more attractive than any man on Earth. Look at Harvey Weinstein, The guy looks like a Demonic Mafia Bookie but his wife is Georgina Chapman who represents a beauty ideal and whom I would consider attractive. Even if they have supreme love and understanding for one another. We can say that money did influence and beauty did influence in some way as the woman is very beautiful and the man is worth 50 million but his influence makes him even more powerful.

Guys, did you know that your beauty/looks is also an economic commodity much like money/services are? Our economics Professor introduced this one video in our class which really fascinated me. I think I was the only one paying attention to, the rest of my class people are zombies who are just there to take pictures of the slides shown and attendance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y4fWbhhQ_8 -> Watch this video, It's only 7 minutes and tells you exactly how your beauty can be measured in economic terms. The video is called "Freakonomics 2 (Can you put a price on looks?)"

Also I have a question for you @Abu Hadi

Now I know you're a revert and I'm vaguely familiar with your story of marriage. So my question is that at the end of that video, They show you that diverse men have to have more money and more qualifications to be considered attractive to the white women given their research. Now because you're a revert. It's the opposite for you where you're considered diverse in a sea of Brown people. Did you have to have more spiritual qualifications than your non diverse competition in order to be considered attractive enough to be married to their Muslim daughter? Did they expect you to present a vial with water from the pond of Kawthar as a marriage gift to them? If you did not have any experience with this. Can you tell us stories of other reverts who fit into my question for the sake of knowledge?

Thank you for reading everyone.

Wasalam and May Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) give each and every one of you a happy marriage in the future or currently.

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2 hours ago, El Cid said:

Salam brother, Abu Hadi. I must say "Muslim Congress Heavenly Match" sounded like a political party to me at first . I really want to play Devil's advocate for both sides so let's examine some of the factors mentioned.
 

We cannot fully say that every man has the same standard of beauty when he thinks of someone who is a "supermodel" or "hollywood" type. The definitions of both terms have changed in a severe fashion in our today's age. When we look at history, the word "Supermodel" was first coined for Lisa Fonssagrives. The later women who emerged who were also referred as Supermodels were Naomi Campbell, Janice Dickinson, Kate Moss, Cindy crawford and others. What's the main similarity between all of those women? More or less, they represented the same body type and facial structure which was associated with supermodel/model glamour. Same with Hollywood women back in the day where they emphasized on specific things which they day and age founded attractive in order to become "Sex Symbols" of the era. Nowadays, the situation is completely reversed as fuller body women like Ashley Graham or well what's the politically correct way of saying this? "Fuller/Healthier/Plus size" women are also walking the runway and appearing on the covers of fashion magazine. In our Instagram culture, the standard of beauty seems to be Kim Kardashian/Kylie Jenner whilst disregarding the previous generations. Rappers/Musicians also sing about these women rather than let's say Monroe because she is out of her league in this era but holds her reputation as a philosopher amongst the generation where her quotes are spray painted into pretty fonts and held up proudly. We also live in an Era of Globalization where you don't have to specifically marry people from your own community because other people might be more physically attractive to you from other countries. For example I admire red hair and find it very pretty. Women from my community don't have red hair or it's very rare in Pashtuns but they won't marry me because of ethnic issues. But It's not some make or break thing for me thankfully lol. I hate that mindset. Though as for the no older than 30 thing. Women can develop fertility issues when they mature whilst a man in his 60s can impregnate a woman. There's a double standard for sure, albeit a cruel one but can't do years and years of certain thoughts.
 

Now for this. Now this isn't something I don't really understand or get at all. Why is having a high Iman such a big deal to these matrimonial people or anyone in general? For me having Iman/Taqwa means Believing in Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), His Prophet(S.W) and the Household((عليه السلام)) of the Prophet(S.W). Not going into grave sins like drinking, adultery/unfaithfulness/gambling/Haram income/Abusive behavior/Standards like envy/greed/backbiting. If your spouse prays 5 times a day. How exactly does that benefit you? On the day of Judgement, is your good deeds book a joint account where you get the reward of your husband praying and you get the reward of your wife praying. There seems to be some sort of heavy backwards thought where fulfilling religious obligations equates to being a good person. Look at those ISIS/AQ terrorists, they pray and fast. Their sujood and arabic prounication is probably better than a majority of truthful Muslims. But are they good people? Ofcourse not. The Ahl Al Bayt(Peace be upon them) warned us that people like them will emerge in the end of days whose salat will be perfect yet they are going to hell. Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) and his companions were walking before the battle with the Khuwarij, a companion of Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) pointed to a house where a man was reciting the Quran beautifully. After the battle, Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) pointed to a corpse on the ground and told his companion that the man who was reciting the Quran is the same man who fought against us just now with the Khuwarij. Yes, praying does protect people from those grave sins and Haram activities above but then there's also people who Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will send to hell according to hadith because Despite their Salat/Hajj/Fasting being top tier and worth all the mountains of this world combined. As soon as they finished, They ran towards grave sins with no regard for Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). So again, I just don't see the logic in these beliefs. Or as a man once told me "I hate praying. I just go to the mosque for the purpose of attendance. That's it. For me praying is a matter of class attendance with God(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)." The hijab is also quite a paradox for me as I have no favor for both. If a woman wants to do Hijab, I stop her. Then I'm going against Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). If a woman doesn't want to do Hijab and I tell her to. If she isn't sincere, she'll ending up hating both me and Islam. So I don't see the point of that either. On the day of Judgement, You will be standing among billions of people. You won't recognize any one of them, even your parents because of the fear of that day. You will only start to recognize people when the permission to do so will be given by Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). And even then you will wish that you wouldn't recognize these people because your Parents are going to come to you asking for your good deeds and recall all their favors on you. And you will do the same with them asking them for their good deeds but they will say no to you. Your wife will do the same, Your children will do the same. Then during your Judgement, the people who you wronged in some way will come and demand things from you to settle the score. So I see no relevance in this. This argument applies to both men and women on those websites with this silly requirement.
 

I agree. I know some attractive young women with good Taqwa as well. But in this situation, the economic law of Opportunity cost seems to be the case which refers to what you have to give up to buy what you want in terms of other goods or services. So following that logic, You will have to make compromises somewhere as you're likely not going to get your perfect woman/man made for you in a computer somewhere. Now there's no such thing as definites like I can't say "To have beauty, You need to give up Iman. To have Iman, you need to give up beauty." because that would mean beautiful women have no Iman and women with Iman have no beauty. But you will need to make compromises somewhere that's what I'm saying. This isn't black and white. It's gray in between. The middle ground. For example if there's someone attractive but they don't fulfill obligations properly. Sometimes they wear Hijab sometimes they don't. That's where your cost comes in. And if there's someone who is extremely religious or your kind of religious yet does not perfectly represent your standard of beauty but here and there. Some things are attractive, some things need work or surgery. Then make the compromise. God forbid anyone has to get surgery to please someone.
 

Now for the last part which we can examine women as we did for men above. It seems that the main requirement of women as you mentioned and as I mentioned in that weird ad was that they want someone who has money/financial security. The word "Doctor" implies both as the Doctor archetype in the world of matrimony means a clinic where they are printing money basically and your daughter will be very happy there financially and won't have to starve. Now this is extremely shallow and hollow if you ask me. It's the same logic as a man wanting someone very beautiful. There's this one scene from the Marilyn Monroe movie "Gentleman prefer blondes." If you want to watch that scene, look up "Marilyn marries a rich man" on youtube and it will be the same result. Some mod will probably remove it because Marilyn isn't wearing the Hijab or some specific word they don't agree with was used even though they have no problems with sleeveless low-cut dress women in high heels doing Ted Talks who occasionally use some sort of rude word. Sure that's for the sake of "education" but so is this. So instead let's discuss what was said in that scene.

Father of the guy whom Marilyn wants to marry: Oh, shut up! Young lady, you don't fool me one bit. You might convince this man, but you'll never convince me. 

Marilyn:  That's too bad. I do love him. 

Father: Certainly. For his money

Marilyn: No, Honestly.

Father: You expect me to believe that you aren't marrying him for his money?

Marilyn: It's true.

Father: Then what do you want to marry him for?

Marilyn: I want to marry him for your money.

Father: We're getting down to brass tacks. You admit you're after money.

Marilyn: No, I don't. Aren't you funny? Don't you know that a man being rich is like a girl being pretty? You might not marry a girl just because she's pretty, but, my goodness, Doesn't it help?  Would you want your daughter to marry a poor man? You'd want her to have the most wonderful things in the world. Why is it wrong for me to want those things?

I think this scene is extremely important and relevant to the topic of discussion as the whole matrimonial websites/world seem to be a free market of some. Both are shallow arguements as Marilyn points out above. The people you pointed out in the topic want the Doctor archetype which represents economic prosperity. Given the logic which is also explored more deeply in the video. To give the same compensation to the Doctor, The female marriage candidate has to give him the same level of beauty which mirrors his level of economic prosperity. She has to represent that same ideal which he wants if he's giving you something you want. Also given this logic, If your daughter doesn't measure up then it's wrong for you to want a doctor for her. Just like if your doctor doesn't measure up and he's a Vet instead, then he has no right to be demanding his Angelina Jolie because he can't afford her. Look at the Billionaires/Millionaires all around us aside from people of media(Celebrities, Singers etc because they have to use beauty coupled with skill to attain that wealth. I'm talking about business guys.) How many attractive Millionaires/Billionaires are there? Take away the wealth of Jeff Bezos, is he a very physically attractive man without his wealth? The only attractive billionaire I can think of is Elon Musk because he's in his prime and he is average in looks but his wealth makes him more attractive than any man on Earth. Look at Harvey Weinstein, The guy looks like a Demonic Mafia Bookie but his wife is Georgina Chapman who represents a beauty ideal and whom I would consider attractive. Even if they have supreme love and understanding for one another. We can say that money did influence and beauty did influence in some way as the woman is very beautiful and the man is worth 50 million but his influence makes him even more powerful.

Guys, did you know that your beauty/looks is also an economic commodity much like money/services are? Our economics Professor introduced this one video in our class which really fascinated me. I think I was the only one paying attention to, the rest of my class people are zombies who are just there to take pictures of the slides shown and attendance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y4fWbhhQ_8 -> Watch this video, It's only 7 minutes and tells you exactly how your beauty can be measured in economic terms. The video is called "Freakonomics 2 (Can you put a price on looks?)"

Also I have a question for you @Abu Hadi

Now I know you're a revert and I'm vaguely familiar with your story of marriage. So my question is that at the end of that video, They show you that diverse men have to have more money and more qualifications to be considered attractive to the white women given their research. Now because you're a revert. It's the opposite for you where you're considered diverse in a sea of Brown people. Did you have to have more spiritual qualifications than your non diverse competition in order to be considered attractive enough to be married to their Muslim daughter? Did they expect you to present a vial with water from the pond of Kawthar as a marriage gift to them? If you did not have any experience with this. Can you tell us stories of other reverts who fit into my question for the sake of knowledge?

Thank you for reading everyone.

Wasalam and May Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) give each and every one of you a happy marriage in the future or currently.
 

There is more to it than believing in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h), and Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)). When you marry someone, they are your partner in life. What they do affects you in a profound way, and what you do affects them in a profound way. That is why the Arabic word for marriage is 'zawaj', referring to the partnership aspect. Zawaj, means to join together. If you are zawaj to someone who is not trustworthy, not honest, does things behind your back, etc, it creates a huge, huge problem. It can destroy your life, or lead to the destruction of other lives. Just ask someone who is 'stuck' in a bad marriage. They are not happy or productive in life, or fall far short of their potential for being happy and productive members of the muslim community. The main reason why marriages go 'bad' is because one or both spouses regularly does haram. That is the case most of the time. Once in a while you just get two people who's personalities don't mesh with each other, but that is the exception not the rule. The reason is because even if the personalities don't mesh at first, over time, if both stay on the 'Sirat Al Mustakeem', the personalities in both people will change enough so that they are compatible. They won't become the other person, but will become more accomodating of the differences of the other person. 

With attractiveness, it should be a floor rather than a ceiling. A person should ask themselves regarding their potential partner, 'Am I attracted (physically / sexually) enough to this person that I can feel satisfied in that area (i.e. the bedroom) to a degree that I don't commit haram. Alot of brothers, and sisters also, take the attitude that, 'Well I'm only marrying once, I might as well find that person that I am extremely attracted to'. If you are extremely attracted to your potential spouse, and they have Iman and Taqwa, then consider yourself very, very blessed. If they have the Iman and Taqwa, and you are attracted to them 'enough' for the condition above, then the advice of Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) and Imams((عليه السلام)) is clear, you should get married to that person. The quality of physical attractiveness, in this dunya, serves a very specific purpose. That is to protect the spouses from doing haram and to facilitate the making of a family. If someone looks for more than that in a spouse, they won't find what they are looking for. If they look for attractiveness or wealth, etc, only, they may find that, but they won't get what they are looking for, i.e. a happy life. 

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1 minute ago, Abu Hadi said:

There is more to it than believing in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h), and Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)). When you marry someone, they are your partner in life. What they do affects you in a profound way, and what you do affects them in a profound way. That is why the Arabic word for marriage is 'zawaj', referring to the partnership aspect. Zawaj, means to join together. If you are zawaj to someone who is not trustworthy, not honest, does things behind your back, etc, it creates a huge, huge problem. It can destroy your life, or lead to the destruction of other lives. Just ask someone who is 'stuck' in a bad marriage. They are not happy or productive in life, or fall far short of their potential for being happy and productive members of the muslim community. The main reason why marriages go 'bad' is because one or both spouses regularly does haram. That is the case most of the time. Once in a while you just get two people who's personalities don't mesh with each other, but that is the exception not the rule. The reason is because even if the personalities don't mesh at first, over time, if both stay on the 'Sirat Al Mustakeem', the personalities in both people will change enough so that they are compatible. They won't become the other person, but will become more accomodating of the differences of the other person. 

With attractiveness, it should be a floor rather than a ceiling. A person should ask themselves regarding their potential partner, 'Am I attracted (physically / sexually) enough to this person that I can feel satisfied in that area (i.e. the bedroom) to a degree that I don't commit haram. Alot of brothers, and sisters also, take the attitude that, 'Well I'm only marrying once, I might as well find that person that I am extremely attracted to'. If you are extremely attracted to your potential spouse, and they have Iman and Taqwa, then consider yourself very, very blessed. If they have the Iman and Taqwa, and you are attracted to them 'enough' for the condition above, then the advice of Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) and Imams((عليه السلام)) is clear, you should get married to that person. The quality of physical attractiveness, in this dunya, serves a very specific purpose. That is to protect the spouses from doing haram and to facilitate the making of a family. If someone looks for more than that in a spouse, they won't find what they are looking for. If they look for attractiveness or wealth, etc, only, they may find that, but they won't get what they are looking for, i.e. a happy life. 

I already proved above how fulfillment of Religious obligations does not guarentee a person being a good person. He can be as destructive to the other as someone who does not fulfill reliigous obligations which is why there's a phrase called "He is holding his money of Haram buying Halal meat.". What about all the other points I made on the mindset of people/Attractiveness in terms of money/beauty and my question for you? Your advice on the choosing of spouses is excellent However and I agree with it.

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3 minutes ago, El Cid said:

I already proved above how fulfillment of Religious obligations does not guarentee a person being a good person. He can be as destructive to the other as someone who does not fulfill reliigous obligations which is why there's a phrase called "He is holding his money of Haram buying Halal meat.". What about all the other points I made on the mindset of people/Attractiveness in terms of money/beauty and my question for you? Your advice on the choosing of spouses is excellent However and I agree with it.

The thing about attractiveness is that it's relative and it changes over time. For example, when you first meet a women, all you see is her outward beauty, i.e. her physical characteristics. You have no idea what she is like really, and you have no connection to her on a spiritual level. As you go thru the marriage, this changes. When I was young, like 18, before I got married, I would see this old couple sitting on a park bench snuggling and kissing each other. They seemed like two teenagers, yet if you looked at them as far as physical qualities, they were old and ugly. This used to repulse me, and I though "How in the heck could any man be attracted to an old women?". It took me many years to figure that out. The reason why is because as you progress thru your life with a person, the physical characteristics fall away, and if the relationship is good, you see them relative to their spiritual qualities, not their physical qualities. What you see is not what others see. You see a women who raised your kids, who helped you thru many difficult times, who was honest, etc. You don't see an old lady. Others see an old lady. 

So that is the secret. If a women has a good spirit, and good soul, and she is your wife, you will see her with a different set of eyes than others see her. It takes time to get to that point, and most people don't have the patience to endure until that happens. 

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14 hours ago, El Cid said:

This got me curious. What are some of the most unusual demands you've seen or witnessed in terms of marriage arrangements?

Yeah . . . she must have a billion dollars. 

:coffee:"As anyone can calculate . . . a million dollars ain't what it use to be."

 

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2 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

The reason why is because as you progress thru your life with a person, the physical characteristics fall away, and if the relationship is good, you see them relative to their spiritual qualities, not their physical qualities. What you see is not what others see. You see a women who raised your kids, who helped you thru many difficult times, who was honest, etc. You don't see an old lady. Others see an old lady. 

So that is the secret. If a women has a good spirit, and good soul, and she is your wife, you will see her with a different set of eyes than others see her. It takes time to get to that point, and most people don't have the patience to endure until that happens. 

Yeah I agree with that. But I'm not talking about my own beliefs. I'm talking about this matrimonial free market and everything I say is in that context meaning everything I said above pertains to them. Not general people. Nor am I arguing about Beauty and Money being the only standards one must have but in that world that seems to be the case which is the thing I'm criticizing whilst proving the point of view of both sides at the same time. In this world. To get that woman who you raise kids with, helps through difficult times, who is honest. You need to give money/security. For the woman to get that man to protect you, have kids with, help through difficult times. You need to have his level of beauty ideal. That is what it is. And these mindsets is what is leading to so many people not getting married for example that man who is modestly settled might have more personaility than any man who is above his economic level where as that woman who is not that beautiful as the supermodel might have more to give in terms of personaility/intelligence/needs than the aforementioned woman above. But if the family intervenes for example they throw away the profile of the woman if they think "My Junior wont like this one" or throw away the profile of the man saying "Well My Dolly won't be able to buy diamonds with his income". Then you're not going to get to that stage because it'll never happen. Similarly if the woman or man throw away the profiles based on the same logic as the families.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

one girl was demanding a dishwasher from whichever unlucky soul who ends up marrying her.

l am not exaggerating this. My ex is from the 3rd World. A couple of days after we got here she was washing clothes in the wash tub. l asked her why she didn't use the washer. She essentially had no recognition about what l was saying. So l showed her how to use mine. She was so happy she was dancing around -literally- and then ran off saying, "l got to call my sister and tell her l have a washing machine."

l just spoiled her too much. :sorry:

Edited by hasanhh
grammar
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9 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

I am not saying there are no very attractive, young women who have Iman and Taqwa, but this should not be the main demand when it comes to a wife. 

Seriously, two points:

1] "Looks" --pleasant will do. Guys, you do not want some dumb biddy who believes she can coast through in Life because she is pretty. Get somebody 'normal.'

2] "Attractive" --lf she is pleasant looking, that part is enough. Yet "pretty" is one of those in-the-eye-of-the-beholder things. An example: even my own father said l was "crazy" when l said l didn't think princess Diana was pretty.

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3 hours ago, El Cid said:

"supermodel" or "hollywood" type.

l cannot take a girl that Iooks Iike this 'seriously.'

36 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

The main reason why marriages go 'bad' is because one or both spouses regularly does haram. That is the case most of the time.

Emphasis on the word "most."

42 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

Altered: You have no idea what she will Iook like in the future

Look at her mother.

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37 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Yeah I agree with that. But I'm not talking about my own beliefs. I'm talking about this matrimonial free market and everything I say is in that context meaning everything I said above pertains to them. Not general people. Nor am I arguing about Beauty and Money being the only standards one must have but in that world that seems to be the case which is the thing I'm criticizing whilst proving the point of view of both sides at the same time. In this world. To get that woman who you raise kids with, helps through difficult times, who is honest. You need to give money/security. For the woman to get that man to protect you, have kids with, help through difficult times. You need to have his level of beauty ideal. That is what it is. And these mindsets is what is leading to so many people not getting married for example that man who is modestly settled might have more personaility than any man who is above his economic level where as that woman who is not that beautiful as the supermodel might have more to give in terms of personaility/intelligence/needs than the aforementioned woman above. But if the family intervenes for example they throw away the profile of the woman if they think "My Junior wont like this one" or throw away the profile of the man saying "Well My Dolly won't be able to buy diamonds with his income". Then you're not going to get to that stage because it'll never happen. Similarly if the woman or man throw away the profiles based on the same logic as the families.

The 'matrimonial free market' is not as important as you think. It is whatever people think it is. If you want to find a spouse, I suggest you forget about all that and just 'put yourself out there' as much as possible in places and event where you have the highest probability of meeting 'the one' for you.

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1 minute ago, Abu Hadi said:

The 'matrimonial free market' is not as important as you think. It is whatever people think it is. If you want to find a spouse, I suggest you forget about all that and just 'put yourself out there' as much as possible in places and event where you have the highest probability of meeting 'the one' for you.

Well this entire topic is addressed towards the matrimonial free market(critique, analysis) and demands which mirror them. So I don't really know what you're talking about. And it has become an important factor, if it wasn't then there wouldnt be thousands of profiles on SM, whatsapp or marriage brokers. COVID-19 will give it even more importance. So don't talk out of thin air or irrelavance. 

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1 minute ago, El Cid said:

Well this entire topic is addressed towards the matrimonial free market(critique, analysis) and demands which mirror them. So I don't really know what you're talking about. And it has become an important factor, if it wasn't then there wouldnt be thousands of profiles on SM, whatsapp or marriage brokers. COVID-19 will give it even more importance. So don't talk out of thin air or irrelavance. 

What I mean is that you can ignore it and still find a spouse. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) works in different ways and ways you might not expect. I have posted the story about how I met my wife. You probably read it before, so I won't bore you again. 

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3 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

What I mean is that you can ignore it and still find a spouse. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) works in different ways and ways you might not expect. I have posted the story about how I met my wife. You probably read it before, so I won't bore you again. 

Still that's what I am saying. Stick to the topic on point which is the world of matrimony. It's flaws or positives. No one is talking about how there are other ways to meet someone or what the criteria of marriage is. or what things to keep in mind when meeting someone. This world is going to become even more relevant in the future because of the pandemic and people will use these services. They too will complain about the same things I've said above but they won't know the economic/religious justifications for the people on there. Infact you should PIN this topic for them so our youth don't become disheartened. I want to educate them instead. I've already analyzed this world above for everyone and it's flaws using common sense/ahadith/examples. So comment on that. That's about it lol Or throw in some wild stories.

Don't see how anything is confusing here. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

l am not exaggerating this. My ex is from the 3rd World. A couple of days after we got here she was washing clothes in the wash tub. l asked her why she didn't use the washer. She essentially had not recognition about what l was saying. So l showed her how to use mine. She was so happy she was dancing around -literally- and then ran off saying, "l got to call my sister and tell her l have a washing machine."

l just spoiled her too much. :sorry:

But that is somewhat different, I am talking about this embarrassing culture that is prevalent among western Muslim women (girls really, you expect a degree of maturity from a woman) where they have made washing the dishes an issue of oppression. It doesn't matter which background they come from it is something that you always hear, this level of immaturity is embarrassing.

I bet it comes from the culture worshiper types who are basically the maid of the house until they get married and they've been emotionally scarred due to the conflict between girl power and culture.

Edited by Ali_Hussain
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31 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

The 'matrimonial free market' is not as important as you think.

 

27 minutes ago, El Cid said:

topic is addressed towards the matrimonial free market

:hahaha: "Free Market"

:hahaha: "Wait until HER bills are in your mail box."

:sign_no: "Do NOT give them a credit card.!"

:woot:

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19 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

I bet it comes from the culture worshiper types who are basically the maid of the house until they get married and they've been emotionally scarred due to the conflict between girl power and culture.

l find this part confusing.

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7 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

 

:hahaha: "Free Market"

:hahaha: "Wait until HER bills are in your mail box."

:sign_no: "Do NOT give them a credit card.!"

:woot:

It's a free market. Women and Men are both Commodities. 

The currency is beauty and Economic security. 

 

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