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In the Name of God بسم الله

[TRASH PIT]Muslims Have Low IQ

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It pains me to say this, but there is definitely some truth to the idea that Muslims are intellectually inferior, on average, to Europeans and East Asians.

Average national IQs according to IQ and Global Inequality (2002) | Average  iq, World, Map

This of course explains why Muslims have contributed virtually nothing of intellectual value to the world for the past two centuries or more. We are just consumers but not producers.

I believe one significant factor that explains this sad reality is cousin marriage.

When a group of people marry their first cousins generation after generation you get a society like Pakistan – sorry to say.

I was in Pakistan recently and it was unreal how so many ordinary Pakistanis look straight up like trolls, with disfigured faces. The present generation of Pakistanis are stunted even compared to their grandparents’ generation. There needs to be more diversity in the gene pool.

Instead, people insist on marrying not only within their own caste, but within their own extended family.

Also while I was in Pakistan I noticed how people love these dramas that are so dull, lack any kind of creativity, imagination and intellectualism. It’s a sign of a people that aren’t conditioned to use their minds or probably don’t have the capacity to appreciate something beyond the mere thrill of crass entertainment.

When it comes to religious discourse, it’s not surprising why so many Muslims blindly follow the ignorant Mullas and believe every ridiculous story they hear. Let me just give you an example, “when a single hair from the head of sayyida Fatimah سلام الله عليها was exposed from under her dupatta, the sun itself went dark” or something like that. A man my age literally told me that with a straight face, matter of factly.

I think we need to put a moratorium on cousin marriage ASAP, to be in effect for several generations until we recover from this mess.

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32 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

I was in Pakistan recently and it was unreal how so many ordinary Pakistanis look straight up like trolls, with disfigured faces. The present generation of Pakistanis are stunted even compared to their grandparents’ generation

Also while I was in Pakistan I noticed how people love these dramas that are so dull, lack any kind of creativity, imagination and intellectualism. It’s a sign of a people that aren’t conditioned to use their minds or probably don’t have the capacity to appreciate something beyond the mere thrill of crass entertainment.

Ah, so those are the Sunni people I always encounter on ummah.com forums who say they are from Pakistan. Makes sense.

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16 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Ah, so those are the Sunni people I always encounter on ummah.com forums who say they are from Pakistan. Makes sense.

It’s not really a sectarian issue. But having been to Pakistan, I can tell you that cousin marriage is a bigger problem among Shi’ah, especially the very large caste of Sayyids – who are forbidden by their madhhab to marry outside the caste. Repeatedly slicing your head with sharp blades is probably going to do some major brain damage too.

Edited by Cherub786
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Posted (edited)

I can't remember the statistic but a large number of Muslims inbreed, although probably not to the same degree as the Pakistanis favour (between first cousins) whereas Arabs might keep it more within their extended family or tribe.

There was a member here a few years back literally bemoaning the fact that he didn't have a female cousin to marry, sounds like a fetish for some people. If anyone ever watched the Simpsons, it is a bit like the Shelbyville people.

Of course people point to the fact the Quraysh married between first cousins, so they argue that it is somehow preferred. It isn't that there is an issue with it, but doing it generation after generation is obviously harmful. I've seen cousins of mine with severe medical issues, one of my cousins died when she was a baby, her brother is severally mentally disabled. Not to mention the genetic conditions that get passed on.

There was a famous royal dynasty in Europe called the Hapsbergs, they were all inbred, even though Catholism doesn't allow it they were able to get papal dispensations due to their position. Charles V was the most powerful monarch in Europe in his day, with access to the best painters of his era, but even they could only do so much.

255371-1330620924.jpg

Edited by Ali_Hussain
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17 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

I can't remember the statistic but a large number of Muslims inbreed, although probably not to the same degree as the Pakistanis favour (between first cousins) where as Arabs might keep it more within their tribe.

Pakistanis have taken inbreeding to a whole new, extreme level. It’s very depressing to say the least. Arabs and other Muslim groups also have a tendency toward cousin marriage, but its not as extreme as Pakistani and Indian Muslims.

As far as I know Hindus avoid cousin marriage.

I recently watched a podcast of Edward Dutton where he talked about his book Why Islam Makes You Stupid...But Also Means You'll Conquer The World

I don’t think you can find it on YouTube anymore because they’ve removed the McSpencer Group videos.

He basically said, and the book argues, that generations of cousin marriage will somewhat decrease average IQ in a population, but at the same time it creates greater solidarity in a society, and a sense of xenophobia for the outsider. Communities become tightly knit and insular.

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  • Of course people point to the fact the Quraysh married between first cousins, so they argue that it is somehow preferred. It isn't that there is an issue with it, but doing it generation after generation is obviously harmful I've seen cousins of mine with severe medical issues, one of my cousins died when she was a baby, her brother is severally mentally disabled. Not to mention the genetic conditions that get passed on.

People point to the Prophet’s marriage with sayyidatuna Zaynab bint Jahsh رضى الله عنها to argue it’s Sunnah to marry your cousin. But they forget that the Prophet’s other marriages were with ladies who were distantly related or not related at all. The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم married sayyidatuna Safiyyah bint Huyyay رضى الله عنها a Jewish lady, and sayyidatuna Mariyah al-Qibtiyah رضى الله عنها a Coptic Egyptian.

So interracial or interethnic marriage is also from the Sunnah.

I first became aware of the danger of cousin marriage long ago when my mother was working for a Pakistani couple that have three paralyzed children. The couple were first cousins, and their family has a history of first cousin marriage for generations. Looking at them they literally look like brother and sister. It’s very sad that because of this stupid tradition children are born with such severe disabilities. I thank God every day I wasn’t born in such a condition – what a test it must be.

Incidentally, last time I was in Pakistan I was working as a supervisor at a call center for a Canadian based taxi company. My boss's cousin was the overall manager of the Pakistan office in Rawalpindi. I once casually told him that cousin marriage is bad. His expression changed quickly and I just realized I must have offended him personally since he was probably married to his cousin. You can't even talk about this subject to any Pakistani because chances are he's married to his cousin and will feel offended. Then one day he announced he was bringing his young son to the office. He told me "make sure you hide your phone...my son is special", lo and behold, the boy was severely mentally handicapped, being a teenager but having the mental level of a toddler.

Edited by Cherub786
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20 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

VIEW FROM ABROAD: Pets and Pakistani predators in Britain - Newspaper -  DAWN.COM

This is what I’m talking about. These are typical Pakistani faces. They happen to be the Pakistani guys involved in the sex grooming scandal in the UK. If these guys don’t look inbred something must be wrong with my eyes.

Sikhs generally have that look as well, as there isn't that much genetic diversity in their group.

Apparently Ashkenazi Jews also suffer from a lot of genetic disorders because they come from a very small group that kept it in-house for hundreds and hundreds of years. 

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3 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

Sikhs generally have that look as well, as there isn't that much genetic diversity in their group.

A lot of Sikhs I see here in Canada look pretty good. They are tall and have sharp features. They’d look even better if they ditched the turbans and long untrimmed beards.

As for Sikh women, oh my Lord, you really have to close your eyes, they are something else.

As far as I know, Sikhs and Hindus rarely practice cousin marriage, but they do tend to marry within their caste.

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Apparently Ashkenazi Jews also suffer from a lot of genetic disorders because they come from a very small group that kept it in-house for hundreds and hundreds of years. 

Tay-Sachs disease

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I think you’re getting on to something here. 
 

In many Muslim countries, critical thinking as a whole is often not valued nor is it encouraged.

Cousin marriages aside, many Muslims follow a dangerous misconception that plagues our community—the advice: don’t focus on the dunya. Therefore, people in Muslim countries often fail to unlock their true potential, mistakenly believing that if they strive to have a good life, to excel academically, to invent, to become driven to achieve only the best, that somehow they are focusing too much on “worldly life”. The consequences are what we see today. Very few muslim countries are developed nowadays. And it is to a large degree their own fault. They perpetuate a negative stereotype about success, and they don’t strive for it.   

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1 hour ago, Ali_Hussain said:

ven though Catholism doesn't allow it

Catholicism doesn't prohibit cousin marriage. As far as I can recall, it never has. It does require adherents to follow the law of the land so long as it doesn't contradict their religious law. 

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2 minutes ago, notme said:

Also, this assertion that Muslims have lower IQ than the rest of the world is unsubstantiated. You can't just put a colorful and unlabeled map on the page and present your claims as facts. 

I didn’t say “rest of the world”, I said our IQ is, on average, lower than the average European/White and East Asian IQ.

That is a fact btw. East Asians on average have the highest IQ in the world. When I say East Asians I mean the northern part of East Asia (China, Korea, Japan).

Ashkenazi Jews also have exceptionally high IQ level, followed by other Europeans in general.

But there are differences. For example, East Asians excel in visuo-spatial abilities. They are better at mathematics. Ashkenazi Jews are weak in that aspect, but excel in interpersonal skills, language and literary expression, which explains why they are better journalists, dominate the media and politics. East Asians are very weak in that aspect of intelligence. They are opposites but both highly intelligent in their own way.

The Muslim world is in between Europe and sub-Saharan Africa in terms of average IQ. So we are higher than sub-Saharan Africa but lower than Europe and European settlements like the Americas and Australia.

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5 minutes ago, notme said:

Please present your reputable sources. 

Here you go:

https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php

There’s tons of material online about this subject. But it’s not surprising many people haven’t been exposed to it, given the controversial nature of it, especially in our day when there is so much sensitivity and political correctness surrounding the issue of race.

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19 minutes ago, notme said:

Catholicism doesn't prohibit cousin marriage. As far as I can recall, it never has. It does require adherents to follow the law of the land so long as it doesn't contradict their religious law. 

Maybe today it is more relaxed but historically they didn't allow it and Catholics didn't practice it.

"Legal prohibitions on marriage between cousins (and other close blood relationships, such as uncle and niece) stem from the Church's ban on such marriages. Before 1983, marriages between second cousins were prohibited"

https://www.holyfamilyrcchurchpatchway.co.uk/about-us/parish-catechesis/sacrament-of-marriage/

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Posted (edited)

You definitely bring up an interesting point here. Ngl I sympathise with a lot of what you say, despite not actually looking into the resarch/data on this. 

This inbreeding issue could indeed be linked to a lot of problems. However, those countries are plagued with a lot of other issues too.

As for the specific claim about Muslims having a lower IQ on average, I think that's a pretty big claim. You might only be looking to certain geographical areas. I don't know if this is the case everywhere or even the places you pointed to. This needs to be properly verified. 

As for the material sciences, yeah I haven't seen too much by Muslims in the past two centuries, but again I've seen zero research on this matter. 

But anyway, I do agree overall, we need to increase education, step it up big time, and rectify a lot of things. 

I remeber learning about Charles the second of Spain and as you say, repeated inbreeding limits the gene pool and significantly puts the inbred children at greater risk of health problems.

3 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Also while I was in Pakistan I noticed how people love these dramas that are so dull, lack any kind of creativity, imagination and intellectualism. It’s a sign of a people that aren’t conditioned to use their minds or probably don’t have the capacity to appreciate something beyond the mere thrill of crass entertainment.

Ahh it is unfortunate. Especially considering how our religion speaks a lot on the intellect, contemplation, knowledge, and learning. 

3 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

who are forbidden by their madhhab to marry outside the caste

Not true. Those people are probably following culture.

2 hours ago, El Cid said:
3 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

 Repeatedly slicing your head with sharp blades is probably going to do some major brain damage too.

So does believing in the virtue of Muwaiya but who am I to judge

Well said @El Cid.

Edited by AStruggler
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2 hours ago, AStruggler said:

As for the specific claim about Muslims having a lower IQ on average, I think that's a pretty big claim. You might only be looking to certain geographical areas. I don't know if this is the case everywhere or even the places you pointed to. This needs to be properly verified. 

Just look at the average IQ reported from Muslim majority countries. They are consistently behind East Asia and the Western world (Europe, Americas, Australia).

The Muslim majority country with the highest average IQ is Malaysia, at number 41. All the countries from #1 to #40 before Malaysia are European/Western or East Asian countries.

2 hours ago, AStruggler said:

Not true. Those people are probably following culture.

I’m pretty sure you’re wrong. In Twelver Shi’ism, especially as practiced in India and Pakistan, sayyids do not marry non-sayyids as a rule, a religious prohibition, not a cultural taboo.

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5 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

It’s not really a sectarian issue. But having been to Pakistan, I can tell you that cousin marriage is a bigger problem among Shi’ah, especially the very large caste of Sayyids – who are forbidden by their madhhab to marry outside the caste. Repeatedly slicing your head with sharp blades is probably going to do some major brain damage too.

Not going to lie Cherry, I agree with you on something here. Firstly, that's all culture (" slicing sharp blades" on the head). Secondly, yes I agree with you 100%, I've come across Shia parents that have outright rejected my friends who were in my eyes really good potential husbands, because they weren't sayid... although I think this has to do more with culture again..... it still blows my mind. But it's important to note these parents also wanted the husband to be sayyid, earn over 100k, have a mansion, doctor level education, shiekh level education, over 6 feet, muscular, drives a Ferrari , and will let her daughter be a stay at home mom.... I mean I can't even compete at that.....

 

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7 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

Just look at the average IQ reported from Muslim majority countries. They are consistently behind East Asia and the Western world (Europe, Americas, Australia).

The Muslim majority country with the highest average IQ is Malaysia, at number 41. All the countries from #1 to #40 before Malaysia are European/Western or East Asian countries.

I’m pretty sure you’re wrong. In Twelver Shi’ism, especially as practiced in India and Pakistan, sayyids do not marry non-sayyids as a rule, a religious prohibition, not a cultural taboo.

Important to note India has a caste system, and it's literally engraved in their society. It's 100% culture, our Imam's and also Prophets have had interracial marriages. 

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4 minutes ago, starlight said:

You people realise that there is WHOLE LIST of non genetic factors that affect IQ?

Do you at least acknowledge the average IQ of the Muslim world is below that of Europeans and East Asians, regardless of what the true factors are?

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Just now, Cherub786 said:

Do you at least acknowledge the average IQ of the Muslim world is below that of Europeans and East Asians, regardless of what the true factors are?

No. Don't you see the variables? How can you compare the IQ of an Iraqi or Yemeni to a Chinese or French? 

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10 minutes ago, starlight said:

No. Don't you see the variables? How can you compare the IQ of an Iraqi or Yemeni to a Chinese or French? 

By “variables” do you mean the different non-genetic factors you mentioned earlier?

Again, I’m not arguing right now regarding what the factors are, I simply want you to acknowledge that on average the IQ of the Muslim world is lower than Europe, Americas and East Asia, though higher than sub-Saharan Africa.

I don’t think this basic fact is up for debate. It’s pretty solidly established by many studies. Granted, not every human on the planet has taken an IQ test, but if you know how studies are conducted and what the margin of error is you would never make such a weak argument.

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6 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

VIEW FROM ABROAD: Pets and Pakistani predators in Britain - Newspaper -  DAWN.COM

This is what I’m talking about. These are typical Pakistani faces. They happen to be the Pakistani guys involved in the sex grooming scandal in the UK. If these guys don’t look inbred something must be wrong with my eyes.

Something is wrong with your eyes as well as your head.

whats wrong with the faces Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) gave them? Just coz you don’t like their faces on ASSUMPTIONS that they are inbred.

PROVE to us all that ALL them people in the pics are INBRED with your authentic proofs and not your wierd world of thinking........don’t tell me you got ilham for that just like ghulamite.

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43 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

I’m not arguing right now regarding what the factors are, I simply want you to acknowledge that on average the IQ of the Muslim world is lower than Europe, Americas and East Asia, though higher than sub-Saharan Africa.

And I am trying to tell you that this is no argument. There is nothing to acknowledge.

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23 minutes ago, Guest Ghulamite said:

Something is wrong with your eyes as well as your head.

whats wrong with the faces Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) gave them? Just coz you don’t like their faces on ASSUMPTIONS that they are inbred.

PROVE to us all that ALL them people in the pics are INBRED with your authentic proofs and not your wierd world of thinking........don’t tell me you got ilham for that just like ghulamite.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.”

It is true Allah is the Creator and Fashioner. He fashioned their faces and it is not right to mock. Nevertheless, it does appear to me that these are individuals who are the result of generational inbreeding, which is quite common in Pakistan, especially the part of Pakistan these British Pakistanis hail from (Mirpur and vicinity).

At any rate, these are definitely individuals with a lower than average IQ. If you don't think so just by looking at them, you should at least agree considering the fact they are a bunch of sex grooming perverts and predators. It is established through many scientific studies that criminals tend to have a lower than average IQ.

Also, I’m not sure who or what “ghulamite” is, are you referring to yourself “guest ghulamite”?

Edited by Cherub786
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1 hour ago, Cherub786 said:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.”

It is true Allah is the Creator and Fashioner. He fashioned their faces and it is not right to mock. Nevertheless, it does appear to me that these are individuals who are the result of generational inbreeding, which is quite common in Pakistan, especially the part of Pakistan these British Pakistanis hail from (Mirpur and vicinity).

At any rate, these are definitely individuals with a lower than average IQ. If you don't think so just by looking at them, you should at least agree considering the fact they are a bunch of sex grooming perverts and predators. It is established through many scientific studies that criminals tend to have a lower than average IQ.

Also, I’m not sure who or what “ghulamite” is, are you referring to yourself “guest ghulamite”?

It APPEARS.......well that’s no proof is it?

you must have a hate for people from vicinity of mirpur.......I wonder why?

Ridiculous cherub!

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7 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Here you go:

https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php

There’s tons of material online about this subject.

Often surprisingly, but scientifically proven, a warmer climate has a markedly bad influence on the intelligence quotient.
^^^^ From the above study.

Again, this is ridiculous. If this is about Muslims then why do India, Panama and Nepal falls lower than Pakistan, Iran, Indonesia and Egypt. 

A more accurate study to access this would be comparison of second generation Muslims living in the western countries compared with native people of those countries. How can one rule out education, economic and social circumstances. 

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It is your hatred of Shias and our Imams because of which now you suffer backwardness. It is your innovations.

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Philosophy or falsafa came to the Muslim world in the 9th century AD along with other Greek sciences like medicine, astronomy and mathematics.  Tensions between teachings of philosophy and Islam  developed more or less immediately. For philosophy not only taught the need for asking questions, even on issues that were thought to be divine commandments and thus not-questionable, but also suggested that it can reveal demonstrative truth about the world using scientific methods: something that was thought to be a power possessed by God alone.  

In 1095 Ghazali completed his book Tahafut al Falasifa (Incoherence of Philosophers), with this and other writings Ghazali launched a no holds bare attack on not only the ideas expressed by Al-Farabi and Ibn Sina (Avicenna) but on them personally declaring that such individuals are heretics (kafirs) and not Muslims!

Ironically, the man who can be given the greatest credit for kindling the renascence of the West is a Muslim philosophers named Ibn Rushd,  known as Averroes in the West! While he was rejected and marginalized by Muslims, his work was translated and enthusiastically read in Universities of Western Europe.

Ibn Rushd's influence catalysed reformation of both Christian and Jewish religious thought and brought in the concept of rationalism in religion. In the Islamic world he was sidelined by Al-Ghazali and his theocratic concepts of religion (Sharia). This had already happened to the Muslim world by the 12th century AD and as a result while the West started a renaissance in the 14th century, followed by political reformation and finally industrial revolution in the 18th century the Muslims world just stood still or regressed.

Ottoman Turkey, the dominant Muslim power of the time when Western renascence took place (and a major world power till the 18th Century) is a prime example of a failure to establish the type of modern political and economic institutions (the former are needed for the later) that were required for industrial revolution and sustained economic growth  leading to prosperity. The Ottoman chief cleric had deemed the Printing Press as haram and was therefore remained banned for centuries, the game changing scientific invention which brought boom to education and studies in the West.

"It was Islam that carried the light of learning through so many centuries, paving the way for Europe’s Renaissance and Enlightenment. It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra; our magnetic compass and tools of navigation; our mastery of pens and printing; our understanding of how disease spreads and how it can be healed." -- Obama, 2009

 

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One of the earliest such polymaths was al-Farabi (also known as Alpharabius, died ca. 950), a Baghdadi thinker who, in addition to his prolific writing on many aspects of Platonic and Aristotelian philosophy, also wrote on physics, psychology, alchemy, cosmology, music, and much else. So esteemed was he that he came to be known as the “Second Teacher” — second greatest, that is, after Aristotle. Another great polymath was al-Biruni (died 1048), who wrote 146 treatises totaling 13,000 pages in virtually every scientific field. His major work, The Description of India, was an anthropological work on Hindus. One of al-Biruni’s most notable accomplishments was the near-accurate measurement of the Earth’s circumference using his own trigonometric method; he missed the correct measurement of 24,900 miles by only 200 miles. (However, unlike Rhazes, Avicenna, and al-Farabi, al-Biruni’s works were never translated into Latin and thus did not have much influence beyond the Arabic world.) Another of the most brilliant minds of the Golden Age was the physicist and geometrician Alhazen (also known as Ibn al-Haytham; died 1040). Although his greatest legacy is in optics — he showed the flaws in the theory of extramission, which held that our eyes emit energy that makes it possible for us to see — he also did work in astronomy, mathematics, and engineering. And perhaps the most renowned scholar of the late Golden Age was Averroës (also known as Ibn Rushd; died 1198), a philosopher, theologian, physician, and jurist best known for his commentaries on Aristotle. The 20,000 pages he wrote over his lifetime included works in philosophy, medicine, biology, physics, and astronomy. Averroës was banished for heresy and his books were burned.

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“The Renaissance, the Reformation, even the scientific revolution and the Enlightenment, passed unnoticed in the Muslim world,” Bernard Lewis remarks in Islam and the West (1993). There was a modest rebirth of science in the Arabic world in the nineteenth century due largely to Napoleon’s 1798 expedition to Egypt, but it was soon followed by decline. Lewis notes in What Went Wrong? that “The relationship between Christendom and Islam in the sciences was now reversed. Those who had been disciples now became teachers; those who had been masters became pupils, often reluctant and resentful pupils.” The civilization that had produced cities, libraries, and observatories and opened itself to the world had now regressed and become closed, resentful, violent, and hostile to discourse and innovation.

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To understand this anti-rationalist movement, we once again turn our gaze back to the time of the Abbasid caliph al-Mamun. Al-Mamun picked up the pro-science torch lit by the second caliph, al-Mansur, and ran with it. He responded to a crisis of legitimacy by attempting to undermine traditionalist religious scholars while actively sponsoring a doctrine called Mu’tazilism that was deeply influenced by Greek rationalism, particularly Aristotelianism. To this end, he imposed an inquisition, under which those who refused to profess their allegiance to Mu’tazilism were punished by flogging, imprisonment, or beheading. But the caliphs who followed al-Mamun upheld the doctrine with less fervor, and within a few decades, adherence to it became a punishable offense. The backlash against Mu’tazilism was tremendously successful: by 885, a half century after al-Mamun’s death, it even became a crime to copy books of philosophy. The beginning of the de-Hellenization of Arabic high culture was underway. By the twelfth or thirteenth century, the influence of Mu’tazilism was nearly completely marginalized.

In its place arose the anti-rationalist Ash’ari school whose increasing dominance is linked to the decline of Arabic science. With the rise of the Ash’arites, the ethos in the Islamic world was increasingly opposed to original scholarship and any scientific inquiry that did not directly aid in religious regulation of private and public life. While the Mu’tazilites had contended that the Koran was created and so God’s purpose for man must be interpreted through reason, the Ash’arites believed the Koran to be coeval with God — and therefore unchallengeable. At the heart of Ash’ari metaphysics is the idea of occasionalism, a doctrine that denies natural causality. Put simply, it suggests natural necessity cannot exist because God’s will is completely free. Ash’arites believed that God is the only cause, so that the world is a series of discrete physical events each willed by God.

As Maimonides described it in The Guide for the Perplexed, this view sees natural things that appear to be permanent as merely following habit. Heat follows fire and hunger follows lack of food as a matter of habit, not necessity, “just as the king generally rides on horseback through the streets of the city, and is never found departing from this habit; but reason does not find it impossible that he should walk on foot through the place.” According to the occasionalist view, tomorrow coldness might follow fire, and satiety might follow lack of food. God wills every single atomic event and God’s will is not bound up with reason. This amounts to a denial of the coherence and comprehensibility of the natural world. In his controversial 2006 University of Regensburg address, Pope Benedict XVI described this idea by quoting the philosopher Ibn Hazm (died 1064) as saying, “Were it God’s will, we would even have to practice idolatry.” It is not difficult to see how this doctrine could lead to dogma and eventually to the end of free inquiry in science and philosophy.

The greatest and most influential voice of the Ash’arites was the medieval theologian Abu Hamid al-Ghazali (also known as Algazel; died 1111). In his book The Incoherence of the Philosophers, al-Ghazali vigorously attacked philosophy and philosophers — both the Greek philosophers themselves and their followers in the Muslim world (such as al-Farabi and Avicenna). Al-Ghazali was worried that when people become favorably influenced by philosophical arguments, they will also come to trust the philosophers on matters of religion, thus making Muslims less pious. Reason, because it teaches us to discover, question, and innovate, was the enemy; al-Ghazali argued that in assuming necessity in nature, philosophy was incompatible with Islamic teaching, which recognizes that nature is entirely subject to God’s will: “Nothing in nature,” he wrote, “can act spontaneously and apart from God.” While al-Ghazali did defend logic, he did so only to the extent that it could be used to ask theological questions and wielded as a tool to undermine philosophy. Sunnis embraced al-Ghazali as the winner of the debate with the Hellenistic rationalists, and opposition to philosophy gradually ossified, even to the extent that independent inquiry became a tainted enterprise, sometimes to the point of criminality. It is an exaggeration to say, as Steven Weinberg claimed in the Times of London, that after al-Ghazali “there was no more science worth mentioning in Islamic countries”; in some places, especially Central Asia, Arabic work in science continued for some time, and philosophy was still studied somewhat under Shi’ite rule. (In the Sunni world, philosophy turned into mysticism.) But the fact is, Arab contributions to science became increasingly sporadic as the anti-rationalism sank in.

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The Ash’ari view has endured to this day. Its most extreme form can be seen in some sects of Islamists. For example, Mohammed Yusuf, the late leader of a group called the Nigerian Taliban, explained why “Western education is a sin” by explaining its view on rain: “We believe it is a creation of God rather than an evaporation caused by the sun that condenses and becomes rain.” The Ash’ari view is also evident when Islamic leaders attribute natural disasters to God’s vengeance, as they did when they said that the 2010 eruption of Iceland’s Eyjafjallajökull volcano was the result of God’s anger at immodestly dressed women in Europe. Such inferences sound crazy to Western ears, but given their frequency in the Muslim world, they must sound at least a little less crazy to Muslims. As Robert R. Reilly argues in The Closing of the Muslim Mind (2010), “the fatal disconnect between the creator and the mind of his creature is the source of Sunni Islam’s most profound woes.”

But of course you will disagree. It is your fate to remain in ruins until the reappearance.

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Posted (edited)

Of course I have no knowledge on this as I've never bothered to look into it, so just chiming in. 

We need to  take into consideration of how wars, corrupt governments, famine, poverty etc... is very widespread in the middle-east. Under these conditions how can a proper education system function ? How can young children go to schools when bombs are dropping over their heads? Or they must stay home to help support the family. 

I don't think it has to do with genetics, as we have many muslim doctors, engineers, etc here in the west. But, maybe the conditions that may effect ones pursuit to receive proper education. 

 

 

Edited by YoungSkiekh313
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36 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

It is your hatred of Shias and our Imams because of which now you suffer backwardness. It is your innovations.

"It was Islam that carried the light of learning through so many centuries, paving the way for Europe’s Renaissance and Enlightenment. It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra; our magnetic compass and tools of navigation; our mastery of pens and printing; our understanding of how disease spreads and how it can be healed." -- Obama, 2009

 

But of course you will disagree. It is your fate to remain in ruins until the reappearance.

Huh?


Because of the hatred for shias and their imams that the Muslims suffer backwardness?

Yet the shias and their imams NEVER got to rule, Imams left it to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) they didn’t want to cause fitna in the ummah.

So...... we muslims are backwards because Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) didn’t let the imams rule and the imams didn’t want to rule but let the other side rule instead and that is why us muslims are backwards.?!?!?

”Because of the hatred for shias and their imams the muslims suffer backwardness”

You can compare shia and Sunni backwardness if you want and trust me it’s the Sunnis who are advancing in many spheres but hey in your Sunni hating mind it’s the shias, as your post suggests.

lol

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I completely agree with the statements that non-genetic factors play a crucial role in this situation. If people for these apparently "low IQ" areas are provided with the same quality of education and the same environment as the "high IQ countries" I think the results of these studies would be very different. 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

I’m pretty sure you’re wrong. In Twelver Shi’ism, especially as practiced in India and Pakistan, sayyids do not marry non-sayyids as a rule, a religious prohibition, not a cultural taboo.

I am not wrong. As per twelver fiqh, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a marriage between Sayyid and a Non-Sayyid.

I have never ever heard of any shia faqih ruling it impermissible. It's perfectly mubah. 

Here is a ruling from the english website of Ayatollah Sayyid al Sistani, who's deemed as the top Shia faqih of today and who most Shias do taqlid of:

3Question: Can a Sayyid girl marry a non-Sayyid man?

Answer: It is permissible and there is no objection to it.
 
 
It's a cultural issue man. It is indeed nice to marry a Sayyid, but some people seem to unfortunately care more about a potential spouse being Sayyid than being a practicing Muslim. Unfortunately ignorance is just widespread and culture has become more important than deen to some. 
Edited by AStruggler
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