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In the Name of God بسم الله

Shia Sunni unity.

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Guest In Truth we seek light
1 hour ago, Northwest said:

This is one of the primary reasons as to why I remain somewhat aversive to religion and am “on the fence” in regard to reversion. Sunnis in particular want to kill Shias for committing shirk yet are perfectly okay with economic injustice (capitalism), class-based genocide, homosexuality, feminism, Western imperialism, fascism, Zionism, bourgeois decadence, etc. Shias are less extreme than Sunnis but also hold that anyone who doesn’t practice the fine points of Islam is going to Hell, regardless of personal, fitrah-based morality. One would think that maintaining a pure fitrah and intending/acting on its basis would be sufficient for one to be considered a candidate for admission to Jannah, regardless of whether the individual adheres to the fine points of doctrine. Spiritual arrogance, especially intense among Sunnis, leads to mass murder. Religion is used to endorse genocidal policies because it is considered better to “kill the body, save the soul” (and society) and thereby prevent corruption, misguidance, etc. This approach can then be used to legitimise any and all form of exploitation, murder, etc., targeting not just Shias, but also anyone who is deemed an apostate, polytheist, atheist, etc. For the same reason I am wary of the IRI as well as the Sunni regimes. Uncritical, mindless deference is always dangerous. For the same reason I also detest Western degeneracy, which, although “atheist,” is really another form of religion, albeit hedonistic and nihilistic (Satanic). I detest this as much as I detest similar conformity and mass murder in the name of religion.

 

Why would anyone care what an Agnostic thinks? and specially a muslim whether it is Sunni or Shia? Your views or thoughts doesn't really matter in this talk. It's a Sunni-shia unity discussions find the right arena to express your thoughts. 

 

Back on topic: @Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi

Look bro: The prophet didn't come with a religion that preaches shirk or allowing others having equality with Allah in worship? Musa(sa) came with the 10 commandments. This is the first 3 rules in the 10 commandments. Allah makes things clear to the Israelites in his first 3 rules of the 10 commandments that there is no room for shirk?

I am the Lord thy God

Thou shalt have no other gods before me

  • No graven images or likenesses.

 

I have referenced for you the first 10 commandments? If I had to reference for you what Allah said about shirk in the QURAN or setting anything up with him in worship this forum will shake like earth-equak.

Fear Allah he surely didn't tell Musa and the Israelite prophets to take Ulema besides him nor did he tell that to the prophet Muhammad(Sa) but only said that Worship is only alone to him period. Islam is based upon Tawheed and purity in the oneness of Allah. Allah is one and all worship belongs to him not his creations

 

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4 hours ago, Guest In Truth we seek light said:

1. Raising their hands up and calling out the Mahdi in Dua? As if he was God and can hear them and answer their prayers? That my friend is Major shirk? Do you think anyone else then Allah can hear your dua's? you have made equals to Allah thinking you are acceptable as a believer?

 

4 hours ago, Guest In Truth we seek light said:

2. Calling out the Prophet in Duas and asking him of health and weatlh as if he can hear your duas? This is another major shirk ladies and gents? The prophet is nothing more then a man? Again you have made another equals to Allah in worship. This is major sin that can't be unnoticed. 

 

Firstly you must understand what true Shia Tawhid is, all one needs to do is take a look at the abundance of beautiful Duas we are gifted from the Ahlulbayt(as):

Dua e Kumail, Dua e Ahad, Dua e Nudba, Dua e Tawassul, etc.

But to make it easy for you, let me present a excerpt from Dua e Kumail:

O Allah! I beg Thee as one who is passing through extreme privation and who supplicates his needs to Thee and his hope has been greatly raised by that which is with Thee  

O Allah! Great is Thy kingdom and exalted is Thy greatness Thy plan is secret, Thy authority is manifest, Thy might is victorious and subduing and Thy power is prevalent throughout and it is not possible to escape from Thy dominion  

O Allah! Except Thee I do not find any one able to pardon my sins nor to conceal my loathsome acts Nor have I any one except Thee to change my evil deeds into virtues There is no god but Thou glory and praise be to Thee I have made my own soul to suffer I had the audacity (to sin) by my ignorance Relying upon my past remembrance of Thee and Thy grace towards me  

O Allah! My Lord! How many of my loathsome acts hast Thou screened (from public gaze) How many of my grievous afflictions (distresses) hast Thou reduced in severity And how many of my stumblings hast Thou protected, how many of my detestable acts has Thou averted, and how many of my undeserving praises hast Thou spread abroad!  

O Allah! My trials and sufferings have increased and my evilness has worsened, my good deeds have diminished and my yokes (of misdeeds) have become firm And remote hopes restrain me to profit (by good deeds) and the world has deceived me with its allurements and my own self has been affected by treachery and procrastination

 

So rather than looking for tawheed from the magnified Shias on tv, I recommend you look at what the mainstream Shi'a do in regards to Duas

 

 

Secondly, using the name of an Infallible to beseech Allah is recommended and is better

Such a dua would be something like this:

"O Allah I beseech you through the Tawasul/Waseelah for Your Beloved Prophet"

I personally think saying things like "Ya Ali Madad" are questionable, but the proper way to seek a wasilah as the Quran commands in 5:35 is  something along the lines of this

 

Tawassul has also been proved from the Sunnah:

 

It was narrated from ‘Uthman bin Hunaif that a blind man came to the Prophet (ﷺ) and said:

“Pray to Allah to heal me.” He said: “If you wish to store your reward for the Hereafter, that is better, or if you wish, I will supplicate for you.” He said: “Supplicate.” So he told him to perform ablution and do it well, and to pray two Rak’ah, and to say this supplication: “Allahumma inni as’aluka wa atawajjahu ilaika bimuhammadin nabiyyir-rahmah. Ya Muhammadu inni qad tawajjahtu bika ila rabbi fi hajati hadhihi lituqda. Allahumma fashaffi’hu fiya (O Allah, I ask of You and I turn my face towards You by virtue of the intercession of Muhammad the Prophet of mercy. O Muhammad, I have turned to my Lord by virtue of your intercession concerning this need of mine so that it may be met. O Allah, accept his intercession concerning me)”.

Grading: Sahih

https://sunnah.com/urn/1287330

 

 

Narrated Mu'awiyah:

Make intercession, you will be rewarded, for I purposely delay a matter so that you intercede and then you are rewarded. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: If you make intercession, you will be rewarded.

Sahih

https://sunnah.com/abudawud/43/360

 

 

It was narrated from Abu Musa that the Prophet said:

"Intercede and your intercession may be accepted, and Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, decrees on the lips of His Prophet whatsoever He will."

Sahih

https://sunnah.com/nasai/23/122

 

 

Can one intercede with the dead?

 

I believe the one who has been killed in the way of Allah, is not actually dead, but rather alive, as proven by the Quran:

 

2:154

"And do not say about those who are killed in the way of Allah , "They are dead." Rather, they are alive, but you perceive [it] not."

 

Unless you believe someone like The Prophet(sawa) or Imam Ali(عليه السلام) was not killed in the way of Allah then thats a major problem and tawasul is the last thing one should be talking about

 

If this is still not enough then that is no problem, I will bring more from the Sunnah:

 

Ibn Hajar states: Ibn Hajar:
Death will never come to the Blessed Messenger of Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) in his grave, but he will remain alive, due to the fact that the Prophets remain alive in their graves.

Fath al Bari Vol.8

 

Anas b. malik reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:

I came. And in the narration transmitted on the authority of Haddib (the words are): I happened to pass by Moses on the occasion of the Night journey near the red mound (and found him) saying his prayer in his grave.

Sahih Muslim 2375: https://sunnah.com/muslim/43/215

 

How can a Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) pray in his grave if he is not alive?

 

 

Narrated AbuHurayrah:

The Prophet (ﷺ) said: If any one of you greets me, Allah returns my soul to me and I respond to the greeting.

 

Hasan(Good): https://sunnah.com/abudawud/11/321

 

 

So saying that the Prophet is dead and we can't make due though him, is simply false

 

 

4 hours ago, Guest In Truth we seek light said:

3. Grave worship is another form of shirk that can't be acceptable

 

????

Brother if you worship a grave your not muslim, end of story

 

If by any chance you mean visiting a grave, weeping, mourning, and praying over there? Then Lady Fatima(sa) did exactly as you have described:

Mustadrak al-Hakim, Volume 3 page 424 Hadith 1345

Salman ibn Dawud – Ja’far ibn Muhammad – his father (Muhammad ibn Ali) – Ali Ibn Husayn – his father (Ali ibn Abi Talib): ‘Fatima daughter of the Holy Prophet used to visit the grave of her uncle Hamza every Friday and used to pray and weep there’.

Hakim stated about this Hadith: ‘All the narrators of this hadith are Thiqah’.

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Guest Psychological Warfare
4 hours ago, Guest In Truth we seek light said:

Okay. Look guys I am gonna be frank with you. 

As sunni myself I can never accept Shism based upon 1 thing? and that one thing is the biggest sin on earth? Major Shirk commited by the Shia blatantly and by Allah it's against the fundation of Islam and there can't be any compromise with anyone who practices major shirk. 

Now some of you will say what MAJOR SHIRK do the Shia commit? Be Patient I will tell you what major shirk they commit. 

1. Raising their hands up and calling out the Mahdi in Dua? As if he was God and can hear them and answer their prayers? That my friend is Major shirk? Do you think anyone else then Allah can hear your dua's? you have made equals to Allah thinking you are acceptable as a believer?

2. Calling out the Prophet in Duas and asking him of health and weatlh as if he can hear your duas? This is another major shirk ladies and gents? The prophet is nothing more then a man? Again you have made another equals to Allah in worship. This is major sin that can't be unnoticed. 

3. Grave worship is another form of shirk that can't be acceptable 

There is more but for now I mentioned the major reasons and wallahi there is nothing bigger then major shirk being commited blatantly as if it was their right to commit this shirk. 

Above is based on your understanding of" Your version of fundamental of Faith" . 

You may not believe in a Divine appointment, and may have an outlook which is very similar to the pre-islamic concept of Kingdom/Empire Building and its expansion. It is true that Quraish Kingdom was established under the pretext of Islam., and the aim was to subdue others and expand the Empire. Your concept of Revered personalities expands on this narrative. People you value were the Administrator(s) of this Empire Building and their conquest is valued and as such they are valuable to you. Knowledge and other basic moral/ethical variable do not play a critical role here. Its What they accomplished in terms of Empire building and it was administered.

Religion is a Way of life. Reform at personal level, and the starting from the most basic/fundamental social unit to the most complex State(Individual/social/economic/political these are ALL included in a social group/state hence they are subset of the Main). Comprehensive Guidance was/is still available at all levels thru Allah(عزّ وجلّ)'s Divinely Appointed Guides/Guardians. 

“Only Allah is your wali and His Apostle and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor rate while they bow”. (5:55)

“O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle and those in authority from among you.” (Qur’an, Surah Nisa 4:59)

We have a Living Imam. If you were to expand your horizon beyond Empire Building and establishing a state and running it. You will comprehend that Religion is not as limited to worldly administration and you and your god has a separate line/connection. 

Benefits Of Imam Mahdi (aj) During His Ghaibat

Imam Mahdi (aj) said,

"As for deriving benefit from me in my occupation, (it) is like deriving benefit from the sun when it hides behind the clouds."1

Favours Of Imam Mahdi (aj) Upon His Shias

Imam Mahdi (aj) says,

"Surely, we do not neglect your condition nor are we forgetful of your remembrance. Had it not been so, then, terrible calamities would have struck you and your enemies would have destroyed you."2

https://www.al-islam.org/fazail-ul-mahdi-ali-akbar-talaafi/benefits-imam-mahdi-aj-during-his-ghaibat

As far as Graves are concerned. Holy Imams(عليه السلام) were a true source of Guidance and even their graves serve as a source of Guidance to the Truth. . Fact of the matter is that the are the Signs of Allah(عزّ وجلّ) and they direct us to him, a constant reminder ( Karbala) battle between Humanity and inhumanity. So, they are a thorn for the inhumane type, and as such all the branding. 

What is shirk to you is Real Tawheed to us, and what is Tawheed to you us Shirk to us. Don't try to impose your version and have the pride and arrogance to demand Unity under this pretext. 

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Guest In Truth we seek light

 

@MaisumAli Brother I know you wanna make reason of all this but the truth is that this people are commiting shirk as if it is the norm while our entire religion is based upon distancing ourselves from this cursed major sin.

As for Tawassul or Intercession is not allowed in Islam and you can find my answer in the short video

 

In your long answer you mixed truth with falsehoold such as quoting the shuhada in this context which is to far fatched. Tawassul is not allowed and calling upon other creatures is not allowed except Allah this is the fundation for Tawheed and anyone who does something else has commited major shirk. 

As for the Fatima part she was weeping not worshipping that is different. What I mean by grave worship is going to the grave and directly asking the person in the grave to give you things in life such as wealth, health and other worldly gains.

Just look at what Allah told Musa in the 10 commandments the message was clear as daylight and to exact it was in the first 3 commandments 

I am the Lord thy God

Thou shalt have no other gods before me

  • No graven images or likenesses.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Guest In Truth we seek light said:

 

Okay. Look guys I am gonna be frank with you. 

As sunni myself I can never accept Shism based upon 1 thing? and that one thing is the biggest sin on earth? Major Shirk commited by the Shia blatantly and by Allah it's against the fundation of Islam and there can't be any compromise with anyone who practices major shirk. 

Now some of you will say what MAJOR SHIRK do the Shia commit? Be Patient I will tell you what major shirk they commit. 

 

1. Raising their hands up and calling out the Mahdi in Dua? As if he was God and can hear them and answer their prayers? That my friend is Major shirk? Do you think anyone else then Allah can hear your dua's? you have made equals to Allah thinking you are acceptable as a believer?

2. Calling out the Prophet in Duas and asking him of health and weatlh as if he can hear your duas? This is another major shirk ladies and gents? The prophet is nothing more then a man? Again you have made another equals to Allah in worship. This is major sin that can't be unnoticed. 

3. Grave worship is another form of shirk that can't be acceptable 

There is more but for now I mentioned the major reasons and wallahi there is nothing bigger then major shirk being commited blatantly as if it was their right to commit this shirk. 

It is clear in the Qur'an that calling is only for Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Second, there are enough narrations to show that all of those statement you listed are shirk by the teaching of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام). Heck, we go so far that we call only an idiot calls a help of a person who himself is a needy. Our Imam Zayn al-Abidin (عليه السلام) said:

I said: Glory be to my Lord! How can the needy ask from the needy?
So I went straight to Thee, my God, in beseeching, and I sent Thee my hope with trust in Thee.


So the principles of Shia Islam does not agree with your statement and what you are describing is only a portion of misguided people who are either jahil or a person who go far from Islam.

This same poisonous mentality of Sunni muslims have made possible the suffering of the shias in majority of Sunni countries. As an example, look at the Malaysia.

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11 hours ago, Guest In Truth we seek light said:

 

Okay. Look guys I am gonna be frank with you. 

As sunni myself I can never accept Shism based upon 1 thing? and that one thing is the biggest sin on earth? Major Shirk commited by the Shia blatantly and by Allah it's against the fundation of Islam and there can't be any compromise with anyone who practices major shirk. 

Now some of you will say what MAJOR SHIRK do the Shia commit? Be Patient I will tell you what major shirk they commit. 

 

1. Raising their hands up and calling out the Mahdi in Dua? As if he was God and can hear them and answer their prayers? That my friend is Major shirk? Do you think anyone else then Allah can hear your dua's? you have made equals to Allah thinking you are acceptable as a believer?

2. Calling out the Prophet in Duas and asking him of health and weatlh as if he can hear your duas? This is another major shirk ladies and gents? The prophet is nothing more then a man? Again you have made another equals to Allah in worship. This is major sin that can't be unnoticed. 

3. Grave worship is another form of shirk that can't be acceptable 

There is more but for now I mentioned the major reasons and wallahi there is nothing bigger then major shirk being commited blatantly as if it was their right to commit this shirk. 

Honestly, I'm not sure how much more of this I can take. My brain is about to explode. How much more times do the Shia need to explain this for it to get through people's head. People have these rumours spread by certain personalities, so much Sunnis are fed this lie about the Shia to the extent that people (mentioned above) literally boycott the Shia. Literally just do some research and you'll realise all the lies that have been spread.

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7 hours ago, Guest In Truth we seek light said:

I am the Lord thy God

Thou shalt have no other gods before me

 

Just as an FYI, Not that I care to entertain your charges. You are allowed to look outward, it saves you from looking inward. Because, your fundamental system is not in the book of Allah(عزّ وجلّ). Its pre-islamic. 

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235034818-a-dialogue-on-your-understanding-of-shirk/?tab=comments#comment-2879294

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14 hours ago, Guest In Truth we seek light said:

1. Raising their hands up and calling out the Mahdi in Dua? As if he was God and can hear them and answer their prayers? That my friend is Major shirk? Do you think anyone else then Allah can hear your dua's? 

2. Calling out the Prophet in Duas and asking him of health and weatlh as if he can hear your duas?

3. Grave worship is another form of shirk that can't be acceptable 

There's a group within the Shia's which calls out on prophet's and imam's. Such groups are also found among the sunni's. Do you accuse them of shirk?  

And please stop with the grave worship nonsense. No one worships graves. We pray to Allah and ask the intercession of His dear ones. Also, visiting graves is recommend in Islam

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19 hours ago, Guest In Truth we seek light said:

 

@MaisumAli Brother I know you wanna make reason of all this but the truth is that this people are commiting shirk as if it is the norm while our entire religion is based upon distancing ourselves from this cursed major sin.

As for Tawassul or Intercession is not allowed in Islam and you can find my answer in the short video

 

In your long answer you mixed truth with falsehoold such as quoting the shuhada in this context which is to far fatched. Tawassul is not allowed and calling upon other creatures is not allowed except Allah this is the fundation for Tawheed and anyone who does something else has commited major shirk. 

As for the Fatima part she was weeping not worshipping that is different. What I mean by grave worship is going to the grave and directly asking the person in the grave to give you things in life such as wealth, health and other worldly gains.

Just look at what Allah told Musa in the 10 commandments the message was clear as daylight and to exact it was in the first 3 commandments 

I am the Lord thy God

Thou shalt have no other gods before me

  • No graven images or likenesses.

 

 

That's fine, if you want to take some person on tv over the Sunnah of the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) Im cool with that

 

At the end of the day you have your beliefs and I have mine, Salam un Alaikum

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On 9/30/2020 at 6:33 AM, musa shakr said:

How do we bring more unity between Shia and Sunni?

There can only be peaceful coexistence till the emergence of Imam of our time.

There cannot be unity as long as their revered personalities are oppressors, rebels & hypocrites for us. 

The cost of unity is to mix truth with falsehood. I am rather prefer to advocate unity among shias because they are created to remain united:

وَلَوْ شَاء رَبُّكَ لَجَعَلَ النَّاسَ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً وَلاَ يَزَالُونَ مُخْتَلِفِينَ إِلاَّ مَن رَّحِمَ رَبُّكَ وَلِذَلِكَ خَلَقَهُمْ

11:118-119

 

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On 9/30/2020 at 11:55 PM, Guest In Truth we seek light said:

 

Okay. Look guys I am gonna be frank with you. 

As sunni myself I can never accept Shism based upon 1 thing? and that one thing is the biggest sin on earth? Major Shirk commited by the Shia blatantly and by Allah it's against the fundation of Islam and there can't be any compromise with anyone who practices major shirk. 

Now some of you will say what MAJOR SHIRK do the Shia commit? Be Patient I will tell you what major shirk they commit. 

 

1. Raising their hands up and calling out the Mahdi in Dua? As if he was God and can hear them and answer their prayers? That my friend is Major shirk? Do you think anyone else then Allah can hear your dua's? you have made equals to Allah thinking you are acceptable as a believer?

2. Calling out the Prophet in Duas and asking him of health and weatlh as if he can hear your duas? This is another major shirk ladies and gents? The prophet is nothing more then a man? Again you have made another equals to Allah in worship. This is major sin that can't be unnoticed. 

3. Grave worship is another form of shirk that can't be acceptable 

There is more but for now I mentioned the major reasons and wallahi there is nothing bigger then major shirk being commited blatantly as if it was their right to commit this shirk. 

Salam,

Let us refer to Surah Al-Fatiha...

Sunnis and Shias agreed on this part:

[Shakir 1:1] In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
[Shakir 1:2] All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.
[Shakir 1:3] The Beneficent, the Merciful.
[Shakir 1:4] Master of the Day of Judgment.
[Shakir 1:5] Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.

 

But we differ to this part:

[Shakir 1:6] Keep us on the right path.
[Shakir 1:7] The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

Why Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) commanded us to be with his servants (who already on the right path) and not "straight away to be with HIM (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) alone", despite we all know that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is status in Surah Fatiha (1 to 5)?  How to be with those who are in the right path, unless we are with those people.  How to be with those people if they are dead and can no longer connected to us?

If Rasulullah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) in not connected to me, I won't believe in him.  If Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is not connected to me, I won't believe in Him.  If muslims are not connected to me, I won't bother with all muslim affairs.

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) (Tauhid), Nubuwwah and Imamah are part of us.  Otherwise we are going astray.  Because there are established connection (link) to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), Rasul and Imams through Tauhid, Nubuwwah and Imamah, then we can be on the right path and establish communication.

If a person is very close to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), he is by default is close to the Prophet and Imams.  A person cannot be close to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and not close to Rasulullah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) or His chosen servants.  Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will allow us to communication to his closest servants through a mean as if we live in Congregation (jamaah) , called Hezbollah.

If we are not having connection to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), Prophet and Chosen Slaves, then we are not in the right path yet.  But, we will have to do that in the hereafter (if we don't do it in this world) in the field of Mahsyar (under the hot environment) prior to enter the Paradise.  Be with the people who are on the right path and they will walk us to Paradise or some imams will lead to Hell.

Rasululllah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) will say to some of us..."I know you and you disconnect yourself from me and my Ahlulbayt".  Hell is coming then!

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On 9/30/2020 at 11:33 AM, musa shakr said:

Both shia and sunni are my brothers and sisters in Islam. How do we bring more unity between Shia and Sunni?

By not judging eachother. By not guessing what someone’s intention is. By being kind and nice to eachother. By not Believing everything they see on the internet. Heaps of misunderstanding and misconceptions by one another. By marriage and friendship with one another. By not cursing who sunnahs hold dearly and by stop praising the enemies of who Shia hold dearly. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Ali2196 said:

By not judging eachother. By not guessing what someone’s intention is. By being kind and nice to eachother. By not Believing everything they see on the internet. Heaps of misunderstanding and misconceptions by one another. By marriage and friendship with one another. By not cursing who sunnahs hold dearly and by stop praising the enemies of who Shia hold dearly. 

As a previous Sunni and now Shia I agree with most if not all of these points. A lot of the time people are out off getting to know the other view because they feel they are already judged etc.

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ElCid quoted Cherub:

On 9/29/2020 at 10:29 PM, Cherub786 said:

If Shi’ites reevaluated some of their more extreme practises and beliefs and came back closer to mainstream, moderate, orthodox Islam – in other words “Sunni Islam” there would be greater potential for unity.

And Commented: 

On 9/29/2020 at 10:37 PM, El Cid said:

I'm sure any Shi'a can make the reverse arguement on you as well. You're just saying Sunni Islam is the correct religion in a politically correct way. Being the majority doesn't always make you right.

These kinds of arguments/discussions are relying on hadith and customs. Not Quran.

Hadith is most appropriate, lMH0, when it is in accordance with Ayat 33:21.

After this, hadith becomes subjective to whatever scenario we try to apply it to.

Provocation Warning:

l cannot think off-hand of any Sunni hadith that l question, but a couple of Shi'a hadith l have read on S.C. l do question. There was a futurology-hadith posted, for the one example l can remember, which had horses in it. Look-out your window. Do you see any horses? Not likely.

Back: Main theme,

As S.C has had before, there are ~50 practicing differences between Sunni and Shi'a. The obvious example is the turbah. Most disagreements are in the minutae .

l posted sometime back an article or reference to said article which deliniated how Sunni-Shi'a conflicts are periodically engineered for political objectives.

So, other than my own questions, l do not see any real differences. Primarily, l am a Quran-ist.

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On 9/30/2020 at 9:33 AM, musa shakr said:

Both shia and sunni are my brothers and sisters in Islam. How do we bring more unity between Shia and Sunni?

Strive harder to virtuous deeds as in a 100-meter dash. This may not bring unity but at least, peaceful existence can be maintained. 

[Shakir 5:48] And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;

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On 9/30/2020 at 10:55 AM, Guest In Truth we seek light said:

1. Raising their hands up and calling out the Mahdi in Dua? As if he was God and can hear them and answer their prayers? That my friend is Major shirk? Do you think anyone else then Allah can hear your dua's? you have made equals to Allah thinking you are acceptable as a believer?

Shirk is believing that the Mahdi ((عليه السلام)) can aid you directly independent of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

On 9/30/2020 at 10:55 AM, Guest In Truth we seek light said:

2. Calling out the Prophet in Duas and asking him of health and weatlh as if he can hear your duas? This is another major shirk ladies and gents? The prophet is nothing more then a man? Again you have made another equals to Allah in worship. This is major sin that can't be unnoticed. 

What 'Dua' are you referring to? 

So, according to you this is Shirk?: 

Al Tabarani in the Kabir (Vol 9 p17-18) and Saghir (Vol 1 p184/201-202) relates on the Authority of Uthman ibn Hunayf’s nephew Abu Imama ibn Sahl ibn Hunayf;

A Man would come to Uthman Ibn Affan (the 3rd Caliph) for a certain need, but the the Caliph would not pay him any attention or look at his need, upon which he complained of his condition to Uthman ibn Hunayf who told him,”Go and make ablution then go to the mosque and pray two rakats, then say this dua ‘Ya Allah inni Asaluka atawajahu ilaika bi Nabiyyika Muhammad, Nabiyii Rahmah. Ya Muhammad ini attawajjahu……(as above)” “then go to Uthman (رضي الله عنه) again”. The man went, did as he was told, then came to Uthman’s (رضي الله عنه)door. To which the door attendant came, took him by the hand, and brought him to Utman ibn Affan (رضي الله عنه) who sat with him on top of the carpet and said “tell me what your need is.” After this the man went out, met Uthman ibn Hunayf (رضي الله عنه) again, and said to him ” May Allah reward you, previously he would not seek into my need nor pay any attention to me, until you spoke to him”. Uthman ibn Hunayf replied “I did not speak to him, but I saw the Prophet Salallahu Alaihi Wasallam when a blind man came to him complaining of his failing eyesight,” and he mentioned to him the substance of the previous narration.

Here it is evident that Uthman Ibn Hunayf and the Tabaii used the words Ya Muhammad as it was a method taught to them by the Prophet.

It is stated by Bukhari in his kitabul Adaabul Mufrad and also by Iam Nawawi in his Kitubul Asghar that ‘Once Abdullah Ibn Abbas's thigh or foot went numb and someone said to him remember him whom you love most, he replied ‘Ya Muhammad’ and his thigh or foot was cured. This narration has been backed by Qadi Ayyad in Hi Kitabus Shifa (Section Loving the Prophet p226 english version translated by Aisha Bewley.

Imam Nawawi in Kitaabul Adhkaar records that some individuals were sitting in the company of Abdullah ibn Abbas when suddenly one of them suffered from cramps. The great companion advised his colleague to remember the person whom he loved the most and hence the man replied YA Muhammad and his feeling returned.

Ibn Taymiyya wrote;

In the same way that Abdullah ibn Umar’s foot went numb Abdullah ibn Abbas’s foot also went numb. Someone said to him remember the one whom you love most and the great Sahhabi replied Ya Muhammad and his foot recovered. [Al Kalim At Tayyib chapter on Khadirat Rijluhu].

Substantiating this, Allama Shahaab Khafaji Misri in his Naseemur Riaz commentary of As Shifa writes ‘it is indeed an established practice of the people of Madinah to proclaim Ya Muhammad in times of difficulty or anxiety.'

On 9/30/2020 at 10:55 AM, Guest In Truth we seek light said:

3. Grave worship is another form of shirk that can't be acceptable 

Are you saying those who are praying during Hajj worship the Ka'ba? 

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On 9/30/2020 at 1:55 PM, Guest In Truth we seek light said:

The prophet didn't come with a religion that preaches shirk or allowing others having equality with Allah in worship?

 

On 9/30/2020 at 1:55 PM, Guest In Truth we seek light said:

Allah is one and all worship belongs to him not his creations

 

On 9/30/2020 at 4:33 PM, Guest In Truth we seek light said:

As for Tawassul or Intercession is not allowed in Islam

1. Clearly he did not; nowhere does the Shia doctrine teach otherwise. 

2. 6:162  قُلْ إِنَّ صَلَاتِي وَنُسُكِي وَمَحْيَايَ وَمَمَاتِي لِلَّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِين

  Say, "Indeed, my prayer, and my rites of sacrifice, and my living, and my dying (are) for Allah, Lord (of) the worlds.

3. How do you understand the concept of tawassul and intercession, have you bothered to read the Qur'an and see the numerous instances of not only tawasul, but also cases in which Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) allows intercession through his vicegerents?

قَالُوۡا يٰۤاَبَانَا اسۡتَغۡفِرۡ لَنَا ذُنُوۡبَنَاۤ اِنَّا كُنَّا خٰـطِـئِيۡنَ‏  

(12:97) They said: "Father! Pray for the forgiveness of our sins; we were truly guilty."

قَالَ سَوۡفَ اَسۡتَغۡفِرُ لَـكُمۡ رَبِّىۡؕ اِنَّهٗ هُوَ الۡغَفُوۡرُ الرَّحِيۡمُ‏  

(12:98) He said: "I shall pray to my Lord for your forgiveness, for He, and indeed He alone, is Ever Forgiving, Most Merciful."

 

 

 
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