Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Reasons why the youth is turning away from religion?

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

The corruption of the Ulama is so transparent. The solution is to find an alternative religious leadership and influence which has credibility and integrity. Such a religious leadership should not be characterized as earning their livelihood through providing religious services.

The people who leave Islam because of LGBTQ+, feminism, and the like, don’t need to be pulled back. We can’t compromise on Islam’s core values just to stem a tide of apostasy. Let them leave, Allah will create another people to replace them who will not be like them:

اِنۡ تَتَوَلَّوۡا یَسۡتَبۡدِلۡ قَوۡمًا غَیۡرَکُمۡ ۙ ثُمَّ لَا یَکُوۡنُوۡۤا اَمۡثَالَکُمۡ

Religious observance is at an all time low. The Prophet صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم said:

إِنَّكُمْ فِي زَمَانٍ مَنْ تَرَكَ مِنْكُمْ عُشْرَ مَا أُمِرَ بِهِ هَلَكَ ثُمَّ يَأْتِي زَمَانٌ مَنْ عَمِلَ مِنْهُمْ بِعُشْرِ مَا أُمِرَ بِهِ نَجَا

You are in a time when whoever abandons a tenth of what he has been ordered, then he is ruined. Then, there will come a time in which whoever does a tenth of what he has been ordered shall be saved.” (Jami at-Tirmidhi)

Therefore, I believe every Muslim should at the very least strive to perform the 10% most fundamental obligations of Islam. There’s no way we can match the observance of the early Muslims, they were just on a whole different level. But we have to try our best. We are going to fall way short of the mark, that’s when people start despairing of Allah’s Mercy and the Devil deceives them into thinking that since they can’t really practise Islam they might as well leave it altogether.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
21 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

The corruption of the Ulama is so transparent. The solution is to find an alternative religious leadership and influence which has credibility and integrity. Such a religious leadership should not be characterized as earning their livelihood through providing religious services.

The people who leave Islam because of LGBTQ+, feminism, and the like, don’t need to be pulled back. We can’t compromise on Islam’s core values just to stem a tide of apostasy. Let them leave, Allah will create another people to replace them who will not be like them:

اِنۡ تَتَوَلَّوۡا یَسۡتَبۡدِلۡ قَوۡمًا غَیۡرَکُمۡ ۙ ثُمَّ لَا یَکُوۡنُوۡۤا اَمۡثَالَکُمۡ

Religious observance is at an all time low. The Prophet صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم said:

إِنَّكُمْ فِي زَمَانٍ مَنْ تَرَكَ مِنْكُمْ عُشْرَ مَا أُمِرَ بِهِ هَلَكَ ثُمَّ يَأْتِي زَمَانٌ مَنْ عَمِلَ مِنْهُمْ بِعُشْرِ مَا أُمِرَ بِهِ نَجَا

You are in a time when whoever abandons a tenth of what he has been ordered, then he is ruined. Then, there will come a time in which whoever does a tenth of what he has been ordered shall be saved.” (Jami at-Tirmidhi)

Therefore, I believe every Muslim should at the very least strive to perform the 10% most fundamental obligations of Islam. There’s no way we can match the observance of the early Muslims, they were just on a whole different level. But we have to try our best. We are going to fall way short of the mark, that’s when people start despairing of Allah’s Mercy and the Devil deceives them into thinking that since they can’t really practise Islam they might as well leave it altogether.

Yeah but is it not our duty as Muslims to help guide others to Islam. Yeah people leave the religion and maybe we shouldn’t try bringing some of them back, but we have our part to play. It may not be entirely their fault they left Islam in the first place, it may be because the Muslims were negligent in teaching the relevant matters and because of this we have people turning away from Islam. 

Honestly, in the situation that people do go leaving Islam we have a role to play and that is to help as much people return or to convert to Islam. ‘Just because someone stumbles, loses their way doesn’t mean their lost forever. Sometimes we all need a little help’. Likewise if I or you do ever go astray (May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) keep and guide us onto the straight path), we would want someone that won’t give up on us. I remember reading this Hadith, (I cant remember from where), that went like this. The prophet was seen crying so his companions asked him why, the prophet replied by saying this jew died and I couldn’t save him from the hellfire. (This is extremely paraphrased and I don’t know it’s authenticity so don’t quote me on this). What I’m trying to say is there are people who don’t want to know the truth and their hearts have turned hard. These type of people have already been spoken about in the Quran. What about the people who don’t have hard hearts and leave Islam out of confusion because no one would teach them, or are refused their right to ask questions about their religion. Do we just let them go, so they can be eternally damned? We can’t give up on them, there’s always hope for everyone.

When I'm saying this, I don't mean changing Islam to suit LGBTQ+ or whatever values they hold. No Islam shouldn't be changed to suit anyone, it already holds the keys to our perfection. Some people who are feminist or LGBTQ+ can still be helped, they're not all at a point where they can't be pulled back. Obviously there are some yeah but not all, we can't just give up on everyone.
 
Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, ShiaChat Mod said:

That's absolutely rude of you  to come to ShiaChat and accuse our Ulama of corruption. Obnoxious even. 

I can’t help that you find it rude. Perhaps you may be consoled by the fact that I am not singling out your Shi’ah Ulama, but when I said Ulama I mean the Muslim Ulama in general, Sunni, Shi’ah or otherwise.

To me the Ulama in general, regardless of sect or school of thought, are corrupt الّا ما شاء الله

I totally disagree that this is obnoxious. Anyone who has basirah can clearly see that our mainstream Ulama are using Religion for personal profit. They are more often than not unwilling to speak the Truth and preach and teach what the Quran actually says for fear of losing status and income.

In this way, our Ulama resemble the Ulama of the Jews – Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes, teachers of the law – in Antiquity who rejected and persecuted the Israelite Prophets.

And this, tragically enough, is at least one of the factors for why young Muslims have lost confidence in the Ulama, or have mistakenly conflated the Ulama with Islam itself, inevitably leading to the apostasy pandemic.

Edited by Cherub786
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
1 minute ago, Cherub786 said:

Perhaps you may be consoled by the fact that I am not singling out your Shi’ah Ulama, but when I said Ulama I mean the Muslim Ulama in general, Sunni, Shi’ah or otherwise.

How magnanimous of you to include all Muslim Ulama as corrupt. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)

Raise the standard of religious scholarship - we need to produce more scholars like Shaheed Mutahari who can speak on a range of topics. The culture of academic discourse needs to be there. 

Not every speaker should be given the license to be on the mimbar based on their presentation or public speaking skills. We need to search for true scholars who have an in-depth understanding of Islam. I can say that the youth are more curious than ever and will have many questions. If we fail to raise our standards, the youth will find other intellectuals in the non-Muslim world. 

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans
Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, ShiaofAli12 said:

Yeah but is it not our duty as Muslims to help guide others to Islam. Yeah people leave the religion and maybe we shouldn’t try bringing some of them back, but we have our part to play. It may not be entirely their fault they left Islam in the first place, it may be because the Muslims were negligent in teaching the relevant matters and because of this we have people turning away from Islam. 

Honestly, in the situation that people do go leaving Islam we have a role to play and that is to help as much people return or to convert to Islam. ‘Just because someone stumbles, loses their way doesn’t mean their lost forever. Sometimes we all need a little help’. Likewise if I or you do ever go astray (May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) keep and guide us onto the straight path), we would want someone that won’t give up on us. I remember reading this Hadith, (I cant remember from where), that went like this. The prophet was seen crying so his companions asked him why, the prophet replied by saying this jew died and I couldn’t save him from the hellfire. (This is extremely paraphrased and I don’t know it’s authenticity so don’t quote me on this). What I’m trying to say is there are people who don’t want to know the truth and their hearts have turned hard. These type of people have already been spoken about in the Quran. What about the people who don’t have hard hearts and leave Islam out of confusion because no one would teach them, or are refused their right to ask questions about their religion. Do we just let them go, so they can be eternally damned? We can’t give up on them, there’s always hope for everyone.

When I'm saying this, I don't mean changing Islam to suit LGBTQ+ or whatever values they hold. No Islam shouldn't be changed to suit anyone, it already holds the keys to our perfection. Some people who are feminist or LGBTQ+ can still be helped, they're not all at a point where they can't be pulled back. Obviously there are some yeah but not all, we can't just give up on everyone.

Apostasy or manifesting extreme skepticism about the veracity of Islam has to be examined on a case by case basis.

In general I believe this isn’t the time for da’wah or amr bil-ma’ruf and nahi anil-munkar.

This is the time to consolidate our own personal salvation. Allah Most High says:

یٰۤاَیُّہَا الَّذِیۡنَ اٰمَنُوۡا عَلَیۡکُمۡ اَنۡفُسَکُمۡ

O ye who believe! Stick to yourselves

The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said:

بَلِ ائْتَمِرُوا بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَتَنَاهَوْا عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ حَتَّى إِذَا رَأَيْتَ شُحًّا مُطَاعًا وَهَوًى مُتَّبَعًا وَدُنْيَا مُؤْثَرَةً وَإِعْجَابَ كُلِّ ذِي رَأْىٍ بِرَأْيِهِ فَعَلَيْكَ بِخَاصَّةِ نَفْسِكَ وَدَعِ الْعَوَامَّ

Rather, comply with (and order) the good, and stay away from (and prohibit) the evil until you see avarice obeyed, desires followed, the (life of this) world preferred, and everyone with an opinion amazed with his view. Then you be concerned with yourself particularly and leave the common folk.” (Jami´ at-Tirmidhi #3058)

So right now our priority has to be saving our own selves, and our families those whom we really love among our relatives and close friends. Right now the attacks on Islam are so aggressive and dangerous that holding on to Islam is like holding on to pieces of heated coal.

If there is a Muslim who is seriously doubting Islam because Islam teaches against sodomy, for example, I believe such a person is too far gone to be persuaded back to the Truth. But this isn't a hard and fast rule, examine each case individually and see if it is profitable or futile to engage such skeptics or apostates.

Edited by Cherub786
Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Raise the standard of religious scholarship - we need to produce more scholars like Shaheed Mutahari who can speak on a range of topics. The culture of academic discourse needs to be there. 

Not every speaker should be given the license to be on the mimbar based on their presentation or public speaking skills. We need to search for true scholars who have an in-depth understanding of Islam. I can say that the youth are more curious than ever and will have many questions. If we fail to raise our standards, the youth will find other intellectuals in the non-Muslim world. 

I agree, but this is not getting to the crux of the matter, which is that the way we have institutionalized the Ulama as a class of salaried people who earn their livelihood through providing religious services is in fact the root of their corruption. There has to be this monumental structural reform in how Ulama are meant to operate in order to truly cure this cancer and exterminate the tumor. One Islamic preacher whom I respect, though I have some serious differences with him in some matters, is Engineer Muhammad Ali Mirza. By profession he is an engineer, not from the traditional background or product of the Madrassah system. We need more individuals like him to enter the field of religious leadership, guidance and influence for the Ummah.

Our Ulama are typically ill equipped to address contemporary issues that are posing serious challenges to the viability of the Faith. Often times this is because they are not personally motivated to deal with such challenges because it involves moving out of their comfort zone, and acquiring additional knowledge, knowledge that they never touched upon in the Madrassah.

Edited by Cherub786
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)
3 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

By profession he is an engineer, not from the traditional background or product of the Madrassah system. We need more individuals like him to enter the field of religious leadership, guidance and influence for the Ummah.

 It would require a lot of time and dedication to become a qualified engineer and an elite scholar at the same time, not saying it's not possible. It's better to master one field but to be good in it. It's also an issue when scholars gain some secular knowledge but we find that they are lacking in terms of their understanding of Islamic literature.  I don't think our youth can entirely rely on them as well. 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

 It would require a lot of time and dedication to become a qualified engineer and an elite scholar at the same time, not saying it's not possible. It's better to master one field but to be good in it. It's also an issue when scholars gain some secular knowledge but we find that they are lacking in terms of their understanding of Islamic literature.  I don't think our youth can entirely rely on them as well. 

You missed the point or misunderstood me. I’m not saying Ulama should be engineers or even professionally educated in the secular world. I’m only saying they need to have a means of livelihood other than providing religious services. Even if an alim has to make his living as a cashier it is better than for him to live off the community’s charity. Look what the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said:

لأَنْ يَأْخُذَ أَحَدُكُمْ حَبْلَهُ، ثُمَّ يَغْدُوَ ـ أَحْسِبُهُ قَالَ ـ إِلَى الْجَبَلِ فَيَحْتَطِبَ، فَيَبِيعَ فَيَأْكُلَ وَيَتَصَدَّقَ خَيْرٌ لَهُ مِنْ أَنْ يَسْأَلَ النَّاسَ

It is better for a person to take a rope and proceed in the morning to the mountains and cut the wood and then sell it, and eat from this income and give alms from it than to ask others for something” (Sahih al-Bukhari)

In other words, our Ulama need to live and work in the real world. This will have several benefits, primarily, it will give them independence to teach without having to answer to some executive board or committee that pays them a salary. Secondly, it will make them in tune with what happens in the real world and take them out of the ivory towers.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Salam everyone,

I'd also like to give one important insight on the matter. One of the reasons why so many youth leave Islam isn't because of the actions of scholars or anyone else. It's because of the actions of Strict Parents who push cultural values as Islamic values(Arab, Pakistani, Indian, You know what I'm talking about) in an oppressive fashion. This makes children hate religion because if something is forced onto you by an authority, there will be a chance of that person rebelling against it. Aside from parents, people who claim to be Muslims yet follow nothing which resembles Islam is also to blame why so many people turn away from Islam in particular. They start associating the immoral, judgemental, mentally stunted community they perceive to be Muslim with the religion of Islam itself. I once wrote a psychologically related topic on the raising of children, I talked about this issue in it. You can find it here: 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

There's also the issue of devils trying to corrupt us from all directions. You literally can't get away from it. The other day I was looking up a youtube video about Mario and at the top of the search results was an extremely inappropriate advertisement. I'm sure youtube would have taken it down if I could have reported it, but the fact that this stuff happens in the first place makes me think Imam Mahdi is right around the corner. Or I'll read an article and on the right side is a gallery of filth, or I'd be on a completely innocent forum and a person spams filth, or in the youtube comments of an Shia video there'll be bots spamming rotten comments with inappropriate profile pics with ads to dirty sites. Then I'll shut off the computer and go outside, only to see the women dress with little no regard for decency. There's no escape and my heart goes out to the children. On the plus side I've gotten good at zoning things out of my vision. Then there's the pressure to become more liberal, the ridicule righteous values/people get, and the social lack of any principles/values besides "try to have a good time while you're here." Worst part is you know it's gonna get much much worse. Maybe in 2038 I'll be saying "Man I miss the good old days of 2020. Back when people actually feared God."

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

This is, imho, the single most important issue of our age especially for those of us living in Europe or North America. In the age of instant communication and social media where any one can make their views known, the traditional approach of the ulama can no longer satisfy curious young minds as quoting scripture just won’t convince as it’s all appeal to authority, a logical fallacy. What the root cause is I don’t know but it could be that the idea of individual freedom is very appealing and all religions place certain restrictions on people which those who’ve grown up in the West aren’t willing to accept. Secondly, they see corruption in religious leaders and hypocrisy.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Sadly I can see this trend only continuing in future. We will end up with most people being cultural Muslims just as you’ve got most Jews in America who don’t actually believe in God but still identify culturally as Jews. Is there a solution?  I can see most people being fully assimilated within one more generation. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Thirdly when the youth look around and see the world they live in they see all the successful countries are non Muslim and secular. Immigration is only from the Muslim world to the West. The media has a role to play too but corruption and poor government/dictatorial leaders in the majority of Muslim countries also plays a role. All these play some role too. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
On 9/27/2020 at 7:53 PM, Cherub786 said:

I can’t help that you find it rude. Perhaps you may be consoled by the fact that I am not singling out your Shi’ah Ulama, but when I said Ulama I mean the Muslim Ulama in general, Sunni, Shi’ah or otherwise.

To me the Ulama in general, regardless of sect or school of thought, are corrupt الّا ما شاء الله

I totally disagree that this is obnoxious. Anyone who has basirah can clearly see that our mainstream Ulama are using Religion for personal profit. They are more often than not unwilling to speak the Truth and preach and teach what the Quran actually says for fear of losing status and income.

In this way, our Ulama resemble the Ulama of the Jews – Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes, teachers of the law – in Antiquity who rejected and persecuted the Israelite Prophets.

And this, tragically enough, is at least one of the factors for why young Muslims have lost confidence in the Ulama, or have mistakenly conflated the Ulama with Islam itself, inevitably leading to the apostasy pandemic.

I somewhat agree, but please do not generalise.

I feel like one of the reasons could be emptiness. Despite being born in a generation where we have everything, more and more youth are feeling nothing but emptiness.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest noluv

because we live in the west. because parents teach religion in a fear mongering way to us. ''if you do this, you will go to hell.''

''if you don't do this, you will go to hell''

''if you do this, your parents will burn in hell, do you like to see me burn?''

they always compare us to other children. ''the parents must have done something good in their life to be blessed with children that have a high iman''

they expect a perfect child, but in reality, they themselves are not perfect (islamically).

This is the reason why we turn away from religion, but luckily, there are a few people like me who learn about islam on their own, so they don't turn away yet, but for others, all hope is already gone. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, notme said:

Same reason they always have, since humanity has existed and been self-aware: they do not think about death. 

Do you think they also have the "do it later" mindset?

Edited by hasanhh
spelin'
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

I think one of the critical teachings of Islam lost to the islamic society since generations is the parameters that make our earnings and profit halal or haram. "Those who are raised on haram tend to commit sins, while those raised on halal sustenance tend to commit good deeds" (hadith). "There are 10 parts of ibadah and 9 out of 10 parts is earning halal" (hadith).

- Khums. Most don't even believe in it. Despite it being commanded in the Quran.

- Zakat. Without paying zakat our money is impure.

- How much profit is islamically ok? Answer (from what I have learnt) 1/8. If something costs you 7 coins you can sell it for 8 coins. This can be a bombshell but it is just what I know so far. We the islamic society meanwhile literally rob people of their clothes, selling doo-doo for the price of gold and buying others' gold for the price of doo-doo. That is how we do business.

- Corruption. I vividly remember right here on SC there used to be the occasional comment about rampant corruption in southeast asia. I used to remark that given time it will reach the societies of each nook of the world. Now although we are still far ahead of the curve but there is a curve and a mathematical constant and other societies are following in corruption. Specifically corruption in what we earn. It makes our earnings haraam.

- Foreign manipulation. Of course, our opponents know these things more than we do. They put pig fat in food and alcohol in medicinal syrups and toiletries. In their countries is haram meat. Our ulama allow a few things sometimes, tend to be lenient for the ease of people sometimes but remember they are not perfect.

- And lets not forget islamic societies knowingly now and for pleasure consume a lot of alcohol. In Pakistan according to this year's statistic, the amount of alcoholic beverages sold if averaged would indicate that 80% of the people of that region consume alcohol (forgot if KHI or LHR area). Proper muslims are like salt in the flour now.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
17 hours ago, Guest noluv said:

because we live in the west. because parents teach religion in a fear mongering way to us. ''if you do this, you will go to hell.''

''if you don't do this, you will go to hell''

''if you do this, your parents will burn in hell, do you like to see me burn?''

they always compare us to other children. ''the parents must have done something good in their life to be blessed with children that have a high iman''

they expect a perfect child, but in reality, they themselves are not perfect (islamically).

This is the reason why we turn away from religion, but luckily, there are a few people like me who learn about islam on their own, so they don't turn away yet, but for others, all hope is already gone. 

I was in a similar situation except I had no one to tell me to pray or to teach me anything. Al hamdullilah I had friends who would always remind me of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and always got me asking questions. Deep down I always felt a connection with Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and I know I’m not perfect but Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) kept me guided. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
9 hours ago, notme said:

Same reason they always have, since humanity has existed and been self-aware: they do not think about death. 

I will expand on this because I think it's an important point. 

This phenomenon of , I'll call it 'pathological mercantilism'  started in the West, in England in the mid 16th century, but has now spread all over the world. The goal of this system is simple, get the people of the country to work and earn money as much as possible so that their purchases support the large businesses and (now) corporations and their taxes support the government. This system, which is referred to as 'Democracy' and 'Capitalism' has no goal other than that and it is not based on an ideology or a national religion, as systems in the past were based on. Those in power realized at some point that if you keep people busy enough running on the treadmill of bills and debt, and then them having to spend most of their waking hours attempting to earn more money to pay off these bills and debt, then you can let them have whatever ideology they want because this ideology will never gain any traction in society because people will be too busy running on the treadmill of bills and debt to care about it. 

So this constant running on the treadmill of debt, bills, and taxes is the main thing that makes people forget about death. They believe that if they pay their bills and stay out of jail, this will protect them from everything, even death and that they will live forever. I have heard many youth, at least, say this openly that the medical sciences are finding cures for all sorts of diseases that were deadly in the past like Malaria, HIV, etc, so they will probably also find a cure for death. If death is out of the picture, then accountability for deeds, in the ultimate and true sense, is out of the picture. At that point, religion is thrown away. But I would ask these youth, if death is 100% certain for everyone (eventually) at this point and there is no scientist living right now who even claims they have a cure for death, or is even close to a cure for death, how do you have such optimism that it will happen in your lifetime ? People have been talking about flying cars since the 1940s. There are still no flying cars today, on a large scale. A flying car is much easier and less complicated to build vs a cure for death. There were prototypes of flying cars, even in the 1940s. There is no 'prototype' of a cure for death, even today. 

But the society, because of the pathological need for constant growth to support 'the powers that be' has pushed death to the extreme margins of culture and society. If people think about death, they will be less likely to spend all or most of their time earning money. They most productive, in terms of earning money and paying taxes, are the youth, between 25 and 50, which is why music, movies, etc, is pushed on this group which doesn't mention death as something that is possible for the person watching. The only time death is portrayed is in a fantastic or phantasmagoric way that still makes people think of it as distant. As Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) said, the key to motivating the person to contemplate is thinking about death. Once contemplation happens, the mind naturally moves toward remembering Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
On 9/28/2020 at 1:52 AM, Cherub786 said:

There’s no way we can match the observance of the early Muslims, they were just on a whole different level.

One of the "the early Muslims" (at least relative to now) was called Yazid. (the second Umayyad Caliph) now what level of observance was he in? It is a myth that the early Muslims was better that the ones who live to day unless you by early Muslims mean people such as Ali ibn Abu Talib(عليه السلام) and Fatima Zarah bint Mohammad(عليه السلام)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)
6 hours ago, Revert1963 said:

Yazid

I wouldn't even consider Yazid (May Allah curse him and his family) as a Muslim, I recall the poem he recited when the blessed head of Imam Hussein ((عليه السلام)) was brought forth to him, he stated in those lines 'The Hashemites have played too much with royalty, for indeed there is not revelation that has been sent, nor a message which has come.''

ليت أشياخي ببدر شهدوا ***** جزع الخزرج من وقع الأسل
قد قتلنا القرم من ساداتكم ***** وعدلنا ميل بدر فاعتدل
فأهلوا واستهلوا فرحا ***** ثم قالوا يا يزيد لا تسل
لست من خندف إن لم أنتقم ***** من بنى أحمد ما كان فعل
لعبت هاشم بالملك فلا ***** خبر جاء ولا وحى نزل

A statement of clear Kufr, if he was even a 'believer' in the first place. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
10 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

- How much profit is islamically ok? Answer (from what I have learnt) 1/8. If something costs you 7 coins you can sell it for 8 coins. This can be a bombshell but it is just what I know so far. We the islamic society meanwhile literally rob people of their clothes, selling doo-doo for the price of gold and buying others' gold for the price of doo-doo. That is how we do business.

Good to know

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Gamila

I’m from the “younger generation”. I see this issue and I’ve come up with a clear solution: We don’t only need new scholars we need a new way of thinking and interpreting. I said it in an earlier post on SC; the most influential scholar amongst shias are Sistani, he is 90 y/o. A decade old. We need to stop priesthood-like tendencies and allow younger people with university degrees in islamic philosophy and degrees other than hawza to be heard. And maybe someone without a dark beard and black turban this time. We also need to encourage women to speak up. We need diversity in age, gender, nationality and even converts/born muslims. Also; she/he needs to be seen and heard - we need visuality and to be able to connect and even know if this figure exists! Not even instagram - YouTube will do just fine!

When the old farasi/arabic speaking guy is holding all power; nobody can relate anymore. We need someone to be able to make misconceptions about the religion to go to hell and instead tell the truth. LGBTQ need to know that they are human beings and that they’re still muslims and that their actions are only the sin not them. 
 

and even more important thing is (I can’t stress this enough): we need someone that can tell people to stop making everyone feel less muslim/guilty/annoyed about everything. It seems so obvious but no! People have this idea that they’re obligated to remind every single muslim about every single thing they do wrong - not the way we are supposed to really! We need someone to take culture out of the equation and ABUSE!!!! These people will be heroes and young people will be able to connect and feel like they have a easier way to chose Islam because it is this way it is supposed to be! 
 

Scholars and society play a great role in how people are pressured to be a certain way - most people doesn’t guide, they shame! We need to change that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
Quote

Why is our youth turning away from Islam. One factor explained by Sheikh Mohammed Al-Hilli

Because there is no close one around them who really are sincere in their religion so they could see the truth and light in action and be guided by it. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)

I don't think that it is fair to blame it on the scholars, the parents also have to shoulder some of the responsibility. However it can't be denied that once a person is having doubts and they they start listening the lectures and majalis of speakers that they used to have the utmost respect for with a more critical mind and realise that most of what they say is very low level stuff, that can often be the final nail in the coffin to push them towards secularism or even atheism.

But as I said, it is also partly the fault of the parents for not raising them to have a stronger faith in God and a more inquisitive mind, then their faith wouldn't depend on the quality of these Twitter shaykhs.

Edited by Ali_Hussain
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
7 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

I don't think that it is fair to blame it on the scholars, the parents also have to shoulder some of the responsibility. However it can't be denied that once a person is having doubts and they they start listening the lectures and majalis of speakers that they used to have the utmost respect for with a more critical mind and realise that most of what they say is very low level stuff, that can often be the final nail in the coffin to push them towards secularism or even atheism.

But as I said, it is also partly the fault of the parents for not raising them to have a stronger faith in God and a more inquisitive mind, then their faith wouldn't depend on the quality of these Twitter shaykhs.

So it boils down to what I wrote. Our islamic society has.. turned, for the worse, in general. Substandard parents, speakers, teachers, norms, standards, morality, ethics, everyone and everything has devolved and it has come to this and we are still apathetic to it so it will get worse. I do not blame the new generations, this has been a slow process spanning many decades. If we read the ahadith on these times all this was foretold in vivid detail. Intriguing isn't it. It is sad, exciting, alarming, envigorating and motivating all at the same time.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
On 9/28/2020 at 3:59 AM, Thaqlain said:

Why is our youth turning away from Islam. One factor explained by Sheikh Mohammed Al-Hilli

 

 

 

I'd always say Parents play a big part. They never educate kids about the religion. 

And also the exposure the Westernisation and Western culture where a lot of work is being done through various forms of media to normalise Atheism, LBGT and other stuff. So sadly most people see Islam as way more backward and controlling.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Guest Gamila said:

I’m from the “younger generation”. I see this issue and I’ve come up with a clear solution: We don’t only need new scholars we need a new way of thinking and interpreting. I said it in an earlier post on SC; the most influential scholar amongst shias are Sistani, he is 90 y/o. A decade old. We need to stop priesthood-like tendencies and allow younger people with university degrees in islamic philosophy and degrees other than hawza to be heard. And maybe someone without a dark beard and black turban this time. We also need to encourage women to speak up. We need diversity in age, gender, nationality and even converts/born muslims. Also; she/he needs to be seen and heard - we need visuality and to be able to connect and even know if this figure exists! Not even instagram - YouTube will do just fine!

When the old farasi/arabic speaking guy is holding all power; nobody can relate anymore. We need someone to be able to make misconceptions about the religion to go to hell and instead tell the truth. LGBTQ need to know that they are human beings and that they’re still muslims and that their actions are only the sin not them. 
 

and even more important thing is (I can’t stress this enough): we need someone that can tell people to stop making everyone feel less muslim/guilty/annoyed about everything. It seems so obvious but no! People have this idea that they’re obligated to remind every single muslim about every single thing they do wrong - not the way we are supposed to really! We need someone to take culture out of the equation and ABUSE!!!! These people will be heroes and young people will be able to connect and feel like they have a easier way to chose Islam because it is this way it is supposed to be! 
 

Scholars and society play a great role in how people are pressured to be a certain way - most people doesn’t guide, they shame! We need to change that.

This will kill the religion. We don't need people with random degrees in Foreign universities come up and start talking and presenting their version of Islam rather than Allah's.

Also it's not easy being a Marja. One sacrifices his whole life to learn and understand fiqh and come up with solutions to ones problem. The Hawza, Ulemas and Ayatollahs are very important to our religion. Replacing voices like Sistani, Khomeini, Behjat etc with people who hold a degree from Fancy university will only doom Islam. 

 

Christianity is a good example of what changing everything to meet expectations of modern society does to your religion.

Edited by Hassu93
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Gamila
17 hours ago, Hassu93 said:

This will kill the religion. We don't need people with random degrees in Foreign universities come up and start talking and presenting their version of Islam rather than Allah's.

Also it's not easy being a Marja. One sacrifices his whole life to learn and understand fiqh and come up with solutions to ones problem. The Hawza, Ulemas and Ayatollahs are very important to our religion. Replacing voices like Sistani, Khomeini, Behjat etc with people who hold a degree from Fancy university will only doom Islam. 

 

Christianity is a good example of what changing everything to meet expectations of modern society does to your religion.

Well, this is not true. We need diversity. Religion is belief and it’s a tons of ideas and philosophies merged together to create rituals and other guidelines. The iranians are the leading shia scholars thus people from the otherside of the world will not connect simply because they are from a different culture. Also this is promoting priesthood which is NOT allowed in islam. Everyone with a degree should be able to speak up and share their thoughts. Why give monopoly and power to a few men that most often speak through other men to deliver their message? We need leaders and thinkers that are not afraid to invite people inside and speak their mind - even if it’s doesn’t sound traditional.
The religion is protected by God Almighty, but the count could definitely increase if we where to open our hearts and try to invite those who feel abandoned and mislead inside instead of shaming and labeling them ‘fasiq’s. (A convo I had with a man on this site and he thought it was fine to label people even though it is abusive and degrading)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...