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In the Name of God بسم الله

Khomeini and Wahdatul Wujood: Where?

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2 hours ago, islam25 said:

No translator has said His own image.

No translator has said “His” they have all said “his” so there is no good reason to believe it means Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

 

2 hours ago, islam25 said:

What is meaning of when Imam Ali said I' don't see a thing but Allah in it before it and after it.

If you say this means Allah’s essence is everywhere you have committed shirk. It could mean that Allah’s signs are everywhere.

Allah knows best.

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There is a hadith e qudsi in our books too and I remember this from Sheikh Farroh Sekaleshfar's lecture that Allah the most Glorious says that O ibn Adam when you kill your egoic self for Me then the

Imam Khomeini Ra works indicate that he believed in wahdatul wanood.You can read the Imam Khomeini s commentary on Surratul Hamad where he expresses the view that Indicates Khomeini believes wahdatul

Salam, Certain parts of belief in Sunnism contain the truth and some parts are questionable.  So take the parts that are ok and ignore those that are not ok. Same with Ibn Arabi.  On the iss

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10 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

If you say this means Allah’s essence is everywhere you have committed shirk. It could mean that Allah’s signs are everywhere.

No, he said Allah is every where.

No his signs.

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15 minutes ago, islam25 said:

No, he said Allah is every where.

No his signs.

So you are taking it literally? Wouldn’t this be pantheism?

 

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26 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

So you are taking it literally? Wouldn’t this be pantheism?

 

No. It is absolute and highest level of Tawheed.

What does it mean when Allah says in Quran where ever you turn there is face of Allah.

To achieve or witness this level one has to purify ones heart from love everything other than Allah and purified himself from Transgression break-in any Allahs order.

Then one may witness this Tawheed.

I suggest you to go through book of Ayatullah Mohamad Hussain Tabatabaie" Lubb e lubab " that will clear the issue.

 

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4 minutes ago, islam25 said:

No. It is absolute and highest level of Tawheed.

What does it mean when Allah says in Quran where ever you turn there is face of Allah.

To achieve or witness this level one has to purify ones heart from love everything other than Allah and purified himself from Transgression break-in any Allahs order.

Then one may witness this Tawheed.

I suggest you to go through book of Ayatullah Mohamad Hussain Tabatabaie" Lubb e lubab " that will clear the issue.

 

And by the light of Your face which illuminates everything - Dua Kumayl

And everything what illuminates have the capacity to direct us toward God.

To Allah belong the east and the west: so whichever way you turn, there is the face of Allah! Allah is indeed all-bounteous, all-knowing.

The Religion, The Prophet (saws) and The Imams (عليه السلام) are called Face of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), because they are the signs of Him that guide and direct us toward God.

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12 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

And by the light of Your face which illuminates everything - Dua Kumayl

And everything what illuminates have the capacity to direct us toward God.

To Allah belong the east and the west: so whichever way you turn, there is the face of Allah! Allah is indeed all-bounteous, all-knowing.

The Religion, The Prophet (saws) and The Imams (عليه السلام) are called Face of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), because they are the signs of Him that guide and direct us toward God.

He is first' and last .He is outer and Inner. Quran.

so Quran too conveys Tawheed at different level.

one place Quran says there are signs of Allah.At other place Quran says it's He.

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2 minutes ago, islam25 said:

He is first' and last .He is outer and Inner. Quran.

so Quran too conveys Tawheed at different level.

one place Quran says there are signs of Allah.At other place Quran says it's He.

So when I look at the fire bush that talk and say "I Am your lord", is it that the fire bush is actually Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)?

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8 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

So when I look at the fire bush that talk and say "I Am your lord", is it that the fire bush is actually Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)?

@Abu Nur.

The following is Passage from Lubba lubab by Ayatullah Mohamad Hussain Tabatabaie.

May be it help to clear

"When the wayfarer carefully maintains his muraqabah, God, the Exalted, out of His love and grace, makes certain lights shine upon him as the first glimmers. At the beginning, these lights appear like flashes of lightning and they disappear as suddenly as they shine. But these lights gradually become stronger, like a small star that grows in brilliance and then begins to shine like a moon and then like a sun, and, at times, appears like a candle or lantern. These lights are called ‘the gnostic sleep' (nawm‑e'irfani) in the jargon of the gnostic. These lights belong to the class of entities of the realm of Barzakh.

But when these phases of the wayfarer muraqabah become more intense and he observes it with precision, these lights become stronger and the wayfarer sees the whole heaven and earth, the east and the west, as one expanse of light. This light is the light of the spirit, which appears while passing through the world of Barzakh.

But in the first stages of passing, when the revelatory lights of the soul (tajalliyat al-nafs) are about to begin to shine, the wayfarer sees his soul in a material form. In other words, he might see himself standing before himself. This is the beginning stage of the immateriality of the soul (tajarrud al-nafs).
When with Divine assistance the wayfarer covers these stages and succeeds in attaining these epiphanies, he is encircled by the Divine jadhabat, which bring him closer every moment to real annihilation, until, ultimately, he is encompassed with jadhbah, proceeding towards Absolute Perfection and Beauty, setting his own being and that of everything on fire, not seeing anything in front of the splendour of the Beloved:

كَانَ اللَهُ وَلَمْ يَكُنْ مَعَهُ شَيْءٌ

God was, and there was nothing else besides Him.
And in this state the wayfarer leaves the valley of separation and is immersed in the boundless ocean of the epiphany of the Divine Essence.

It should not remain unsaid that the wayfarer's wayfaring does not preclude his life and existence in the world of matter. The realm of external plurality remains as it is, and the wayfarer finds unity while dwelling in plurality. And some of them have said, "For thirty years I have lived among the people, and they imagined that I was in their company and had constant intercourse with them, whereas throughout this period I have not seen, nor known, anybody except God."

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15 hours ago, islam25 said:

Yes,

Now in your own words explain how ibne Arabi concluded that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has an image? And dont narrate hadiths from Imams (عليه السلام)  to explain Ibne Arabi  vision. 

 

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15 hours ago, islam25 said:

I think you don't get what I say.you have to believe what from your books you feel is authentic.

They have to believe what is authentic in their books.

Are you denying the event of Bibi fatima (sa) ever occurred?

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, power said:

Now in your own words explain how ibne Arabi concluded that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has an image? And dont narrate hadiths from Imams (عليه السلام)  to explain Ibne Arabi  vision. 

 

What ever exists is manifestaion of Attributes of Allah.No existence has its own attribute but it is Allahs attribute.

Humans have quality of maxiimaly manifest Allah attributes.

That is why it means he Image of Aalah not in sense we take physical structure.

Allah has called Human as His khalifa.

What is meaning of khaalifa.

Edited by islam25
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3 minutes ago, power said:

Are you denying the event of Bibi fatima (sa) ever occurred?

Whom I am to deny or accept. 

If somebody suspects authenticity why should I force him.

There is even difference over authenticity of historic events amongst Shia scholars.

And that is natural.

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11 minutes ago, islam25 said:

What ever exists is manifestaion of Attributes of Allah.No existence has its own attribute but it is Allahs attribute.

Humans have quality of maxiimaly manifest Allah attributes.

That is why it means he Image of Aalah not in sense we take physical structure.

Allah has called Human as His khalifa.

What is meaning of khaalifa.

How did you conclude Image of Allah is an attribute? Since Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) does not resemble any of his creation how could you say its an attribute> Or maybe I'm struggling to undertand your answer? 

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14 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Whom I am to deny or accept. 

If somebody suspects authenticity why should I force him.

There is even difference over authenticity of historic events amongst Shia scholars.

And that is natural.

Sorry, but kind of struggling to understand sorry. Can you try again

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11 minutes ago, power said:

How did you conclude Image of Allah is an attribute? Since Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) does not resemble any of his creation how could you say its an attribute> Or maybe I'm struggling to undertand your answer? 

I have posted a paragraph above  from Lubb a Lubab by Mohamad Hussain Tabatabaie.

You take 3 minute and read.Hope it will help a lot.

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Quote

The following is Passage from Lubba lubab by Ayatullah Mohamad Hussain Tabatabaie,

I have not seen, nor known, anybody except God."

That what we call it, signs of God. Same when the Prophet (saws) was in Mi'raj:

His sight never wavered, nor was it too bold.
and he saw some of the greatest signs of his Lord. 53:17-18

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1 minute ago, Abu Nur said:

That what we call it, signs of God. Same when the Prophet (saws) was in Mi'raj:

His sight never wavered, nor was it too bold.
and he saw some of the greatest signs of his Lord. 53:17-18

I don't what to call 

I suggest you to read the book it open a new diamension of Islam.

It appears from book it depends on ones purity of heart that one sees attributes of Allah, then names and at end Essence of Allah.

May be this language is jargon to us but that is reality.

According their standards we are not even Muslims.

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11 minutes ago, islam25 said:

I don't what to call 

I suggest you to read the book it open a new diamension of Islam.

It appears from book it depends on ones purity of heart that one sees attributes of Allah, then names and at end Essence of Allah.

May be this language is jargon to us but that is reality.

According their standards we are not even Muslims.

Yes, seeing God means seeing His names manifesting etc but all what manifest are His signs too.

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2 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

Yes, seeing God means seeing His names manifesting etc but all what manifest are His signs too.

It is we say sign.

But they say it is Him.

And to see Him it takes year's of struggle to live absolutely sunless life and free heart of everything but love of Allah.

 

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24 minutes ago, islam25 said:

I have posted a paragraph above  from Lubb a Lubab by Mohamad Hussain Tabatabaie.

You take 3 minute and read.Hope it will help a lot.

Sorry I couldnt extract anything that directly relates to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Image. Yes Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) dose shows his glory to his servants, which I  agree with. 

However, back to the point of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)  image, In the holy Quran  Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) say theres nothing like me. meaning we cannot comprehend Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

And even through attribution we can comprehend Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) image. Because say Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says it in the Holy Quran.

 

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2 minutes ago, power said:

Sorry I couldnt extract anything that directly relates to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Image. Yes Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) dose shows his glory to his servants, which I  agree with. 

However, back to the point of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)  image, In the holy Quran  Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) say theres nothing like me. meaning we cannot comprehend Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

And even through attribution we can comprehend Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) image. Because say Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says it in the Holy Quran.

 

It is Islamic belief that attributes and essence of Allah is one.If you separate it even theoretically it is shrik.

Mohamad Hussain Tabatabaie clearly say it's ones level purification that he may see Attributes or Names or essence of Allah.

 

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5 minutes ago, islam25 said:

It is Islamic belief that attributes and essence of Allah is one.If you separate it even theoretically it is shrik.

Mohamad Hussain Tabatabaie clearly say it's ones level purification that he may see Attributes or Names or essence of Allah.

 

Okay I am going to leave this dicussion thanks. 

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42 minutes ago, power said:

Sorry I couldnt extract anything that directly relates to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Image.

Ayat 6:103

42 minutes ago, power said:

Yes Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) does shows his Signs to his servants, which I  agree with.

Corrected.

A passing niterjection.

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Posted (edited)

Did Sufism take some of it’s rituals from Hinduism:

  • Ziyarat & Yatra
  • Tabarruk & Prasad
  • Qawwali & Bhajan
  • Incense sticks
  • Applying Sandalwood to graves/Idols.
  • Wahdat al wujud / Advaita Vedanta
Quote

 

Poem - 1 Complaint
Me mandir jata hu, Tu Mazaar jata hai

Main Parsad khata hu, Tu niyaaz khata hai

Main Nariyal chadhata hu, Tu chadar chadhata hai

Main Ashirwad leta hu, Tu Muraad leta hai

Main hath jodta hu, Tu matha tekta hai

Meri b bigdi ban jati haim, Teri b muraad bhar ati hai

Mein khade se maangta hoon, Tu aade se mangta hai

Jab koi farq he nai, To tera mera bhagwan alag q hai

Itna bata de k agar Me kafir hu to phir tu kaun hai?

- Poem "Eak Hindu" ka shikwa

Translation:

"I go to temple, you go to graves, I eat Prasad, and you eat niyaaz (tabarruk), I offer coconut, you offer chaddar, I take blessing, you take blessing, I fold my hands you bow your head, my grievances are fixed, your wishes are fulfilled, I ask the one standing (idol), you ask the one laying down (grave), when there is no difference why is your and my god different? Then tell me if I am kafir (no believer) who are you?"

 

 

Edited by 313_Waiter
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5 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

They are not same and I don't think it has taken from hindus. Wahjat al wujud is derived from quran and hadiths. 

Although they aren’t derived from explicit hadiths, I think they are derived from mutashabi verses and hadiths. What about the rest of the rituals?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

Although they aren’t derived from explicit hadiths, I think they are derived from mutashabi verses and hadiths. What about the rest of the rituals?

I don't know. So many people have different opinions about it, some accept ibn arabi version and some not. But for the principle it seems all of them accept. They derive it from Quran. God being The reality, means Only God actually Exist (He is the Existence) and we as creation are just manifestations of a God names and attributes and are limited. This limitation make us not God, because His essence/whatness is different from us, that's why He says and there is none like Him. 

I don't like when people say we are god (because we have existence) and the same time not god(because we have different essence) . All that jargon is confusion. 

Just follow Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) and the Quran and the image they give about God and Creations, that is for best really. 

Edited by Abu Nur
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8 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

Did Sufism take some of it’s rituals from Hinduism:

  • Ziyarat & Yatra
  • Tabarruk & Prasad
  • Qawwali & Bhajan
  • Incense sticks
  • Applying Sandalwood to graves/Idols.
  • Wahdat al wujud / Advaita Vedanta

 

Brother true sofism nothing to do with rituals .

Is ziyarat and paying Salam to holy prophet saw and visiting Islamic sites against Islam.

Problem is we attribute divinity to it.

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3 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

Although they aren’t derived from explicit hadiths, I think they are derived from mutashabi verses and hadiths. What about the rest of the rituals?

Islam has nothing to do with rituals.

What you have to do is fear Allah and leave all sins.

Do actions only to please Allah.

And love Allah .

But it said love of doesn't appear as long as one love world, pride ,fame etc.

One of the first and basic principle is leave customs.

 

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On 10/2/2020 at 6:58 PM, islam25 said:

It should not remain unsaid that the wayfarer's wayfaring does not preclude his life and existence in the world of matter. The realm of external plurality remains as it is, and the wayfarer finds unity while dwelling in plurality. And some of them have said, "For thirty years I have lived among the people, and they imagined that I was in their company and had constant intercourse with them, whereas throughout this period I have not seen, nor known, anybody except God."

Salam It doesn't mean that wayfarer was seeing God by his eyes or God was in certain place but it only describes that wayfarer is detached from worldly matters so some veils & Hijabs is removed from his mind vision  so he saw signs of presence of All in whole of world that is like he saw presence of Allah everywhere not in objects & people which fire in story of prophet Musa (عليه السلام) is a sign from great signs of Allah to increase focus & concentration of prophet Musa (عليه السلام)  in a particular holy place but obviously Allah hasn't physical manifestation  in fire or bush or part of holy land becuse he is unlimited so he is not inside or outside of anything but he has full presence in whole of universe but his presence is beyond any description by anyone but sometimes like story of bush fire he creates such great signs from his creations for chosen people to increase their focus about his presence for special occasions like declaring their prophet hood that for prophet Muhammd (pbu) it happened in cave of Heera by descending holy Quran & trustworthy arc angle Jibrael (عليه السلام) that instead of bush fire he talked through arc angle Jibrael (عليه السلام)  that both of bush fire & arc angle Jibrael (عليه السلام) are creation great signs of him not himself at all.

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22 hours ago, islam25 said:

One of the first and basic principle is leave customs

Namaz (Salah) & fasting & Zyarah & etc are customs that love & obedience of Allah  makes all of them divine if you do Namaz (Salah) & fasting without love of Allah then these two will be just physical training & healthy diet & if you do Zyarat without knowing place of prophet Muhammad (pbu) and Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) & their right as infallible prophet & Imams then your journey only will be tourism.

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Posted (edited)

If Allah (in his essence) is to be seen physically and through the eyes, then this contradicts Imam Ali’s sayings, as well as the Holy Qur’an:

Quote

“Woe unto you O Dhi'lib, eyes do not see Him with a direct witnessing but hearts perceive Him through the realities of authentic belief” - Imam Ali (عليه السلام)

Quote

There is nothing like Him (42:11)

If it were literally true that Allah is creation, the Qur’an should have said “Don’t worship Jesus, instead worship everything! I am you, you are Allah!”.

Edited by 313_Waiter
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